mburnickas

I think we get that way since everyone needed the stuff yesterday, poor input, or other groups do not talk with engineers. Communication is a huge issue. Never mind that people do not understand that we can't just deseign something up in (1) minute.

JPI- Do you need data or dates? I will se what I can find. Just remember engineers are the most bitter, lowest life-forms out there! That is coming from one of them. :D :D

I think the manual has the best instructions but I think it is like turn the key to acc, set the seat where you want, then press the set button and set1 or set2 and hold till it beeps. I could be wrong since it has bee na few years since I did it.

I will post it on my website when I get the results back. Just to prove the point it makes. Just pay attention to the miles on the oil. The oil has worked for 10 years in my "toys" so lets see on this round. I got my Lexus about 3 years ago with 41,000 miles of here. She is now near 80,000. Have done, breaks, rad fluid, break fluid, PS fluid, spark plugs w/wires, fuel filter, new tires, pvc valve, ATF change (w diff) and oil and filters changes. That is it & it is very easy to work on. The dealer 1.5 hours away was great and $8,000 CHEAPER then my local moron dealers. I got rid of my Ford Powerstroke diesel for this car. Now that truck was easy to work on but took major fluids. It took 20 qts of oil (with 2 qt oil filter) and 33 qt ATF and 32 of rad fluid. Never mind the huge fuel filter and PS pump etc. Well, I needed more room for my 4 dogs so I got the Lexus. So I got this and the wife got a ML420; however, the Lexus is the dog car, go figure. It is still perfect inside. I ended up buying a $300 seat cover for the back seat and it is great. The leather looks as new. Un-real how the covers work. The thing I hate, yes hate about Lexus is that they say it is the best car out there (for its class). The kicker is if you followed the manual to a ‘tee” yes it would be the best car but at a HUGE price. It better be for the prices they want! They want you in there for everything and anything. Also at the wonderful Lexus price mind you. Some of the things they charge you for is a complete joke (ie $30 for wipers) Give me a break. I could have gotten 2 years of wipers for that. This is what I hear from a guy I work with that has a 00. Never- mind the $1,000 for a 60,000 service, $100 for an oil change or $250 for an ATF fluid change! All the things I have done don't even add up to $800 (including a tire job) Give me a break. For all this you get a vacuumed car and a wash job, oh joy. Too bad my car has been to my local dealer only twice for a mass flow sensor issue and a EGR sensor. I hope they do not expect me there anytime soon for anything other then a timing belt. The rest I will do and save enough $$$ for a few mortgage payments (for the prices they want) Yup, as far all the people that work there, just because they think the car is the best, does not mean the people working there are…..

Lexusfreak--The proof for me is when I get the oil tested. I would not trust just pulling off the valve cover and saying, it looks good and that is all I do. I need numbers to see what is "really" going on. I just can't go by "looking" at it since that does not "close the door" on this issue, for me anyways. I guess that is the enginneer in me. I need #'s. If that is good or bad... I do thank monarch for posting a picture of his 16 year old car here; however, we are not comparing apples to apples here. Nor is it prone to sluge issues neither. I have a picture of my oil pan on my motorcycle (1994) on my homepage with only 4 oils changes. Now that is PERFECT, hands down! Plus have the tests to show it. Again I can't even use that here since we are not in the same playing field. I am going to order some tests kits tonight and again I will post the results. By this way I am doing longer then normal drains just to see. I have done this in all my engines and tests were close to perfect. So now lets see what the almighty Lexus brings. Will it beat Ford, Olds, MB & my suzuki (only gas here)......Well we will see? The great thing with raw data is, that is it! Nothing BS.

steviej --I received my letter the vary same year. the PO mut have been verybusy at Toyota. I only can find oil issues in 2002 on the lexus site. ****Updated: Yes, Steve is correct. This was taken from auto news. "Second, Toyota said it will pay for sludge-related repairs for eight years from the date of purchase for all 1997-2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles with the 3.0-liter IMZ V-6 engine and all 1997-2001 Toyota vehicles with the now discontinued 5SFE 2.2-liter four-cylinder engine. "

No clue Lexusfreak but I will be doing an oil analysis with the next few weeks so I can post my results online too help others out. Just to say, here is the raw data now back the up! :D So far the oil is 90% as clean as the day I put it in. It will be nice to see the levels of OXD, water, Si, fuel, Nitrates, , TBN, Ca, Cu etc. It blows zero smoke out the pipe (of the car ) at 80,000 miles and the dipstick is not varnishes nor is the oil cap or internals from what I can see. The oil test will be the proof in the pudding.

My point is that the low drain intervals will just mask the problem. Are you fixing anything, nope. Just follow the intervals per the manual or Toyoya/Lexus letters. Why not have the engine go within the Lexus time line so they fix it. If it goes outside the timeline you, the customer is out of luck. So what will the drains get you other then more $$ out of your pocket? It "could" prevent things from happeneing upfront but I would want something to happen upfront and not outside the "8 year limit". It is either follow their guide and that is the best luck you have (for the 8-years) & maybe an oil test. If not, you will do many oils changes to end up back at the original un-fixed problem (oil sludge) but now outside of the warrrenty. Boy, those extra drains really do help, NOT. You spend an extra $3o to $50 per year to help the motor, only to pay thousands down the road. Again back at the original problem but no warrenty help.

Lexus freak— After doing more homework online. The gelling/sludge is only up to 2001 but again I could be wrong and Lexus has zero info on these newer models pertaining to this issue. Well, there maybe be a very select few, sure but not like the older ones; not yet. My manual states and as noted online, “Toyota and Lexus owners manuals stipulate oil changes every 7,500 miles or six months, whichever comes first, under normal driving conditions, and 5,000 miles or four months under severe driving conditions.” To close, I am making a simple website to help with this. http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/lexus/oil/oil_sludge.htm Also again the short drains “might” do something but I do not see this proven anywhere.

lxs300--- I agree but Lexus/Toyota only covers it for 8 years from what I read. After 8 years you are out of luck. I would rather have it blow in that time frame then 9 years down the road. This “program” is again only good for a certain time frame. No clue, but looking at it from there standpoint, I would not want to replace and enough 12 years down the road. They do need closure on it. Plus they have to draw the line somewhere. It does suck but at least we get 8-years (for what it is worth)

paul93eslex ---I agree 100% on that. We all brought up vaild points here. And I for one would love to know what Lexus sends out info on this and then dealers do others things. These seems to be a disconnect here between Lexus Corp and dealers.

I do not think this tread should be closed. You have no basis and you are taking this way to heart too much. I just brought up, along with other valid points . This is one reason why I dislike dealers. They think because they do this for a living, they are 100% correct. I know engineers that have designed flying stuff for over 35 years; however, it does not mean that are always right 100% of the time. they need to listen sometimes instead of talking. To add some needed info here: (to your post). Again this is just talking man, take it down a few levels. Here are points I need to make: 1) Would lexus put something like this on the service manual "If you don't change your oil every 5k, Your engine will develop sludge". Umm, Lexus still says follow the manual per the letter, this in a PDF form, I have to post that the 3to5K is not needed 2) I think i;m qualify for this job. If you didn't know by now. I'm a Lexus master tech, ASE master. That is great, but does that help me down the road, nope. Only Lexus can help me then. 3) What is your point? Of what? You say you see 2 engines per week. Again sounds too high for me. I can call 4 dealers and see what they have done. 4) If you need to start another discussion on how long you should change the oil, Please start another post. This is not an oil debate. I am just saying the info is not in-line with Lexus (the manufacture of the car) 5) Moderators. Please lock this post because I don't think it's getting anywhere. ok..no clue why but….. 6) I don't have time to sit on here and argue. I'm here to inform people and help them as much as I can. Again, if you re-read all my posts I am NOT arguing here. Just valid points that I would assume you could answer. I agree 100% on the inform. When someone posts here different info then what some else says, do not close the thread, let them post. This goes back to my first paragraph. 7) The V6 won't get any better. Just talk to my buddy at another dealership and he has a es330 with a sluge problem. Maybe correct, but I would email Lexus to get something in writing to cover his behind, seems only logical as a consumer. Never mind to I do not take info on the phone. Show me proof or docs. 8) Is this toyota fault? People don't change their oil every 5k doesn't deserve to drive a lexus. I would say, yes it is Lexus fault since there is many websites that state how this problem grass rooted here. The oil just adds fuel to the fire. Also this goes back to my original post on oil changes and per Lexus letters. The 5K is not needed globally; again per Lexus letters or manual. 9) I will have an appointment with a lexus engineer nextweek And I will bring this up. great, please do and take some minutes so you can post the info. I would love to see this I will also email lexus just for some FYI here. 10) Just wondering, What do you know about this V6 engine? Is it an engine right??? :D :D :D It does not matter. Again I go by what Lexus tells me. I know enough to know what to do, what to work on, etc. After working on diesels and mortocyles with turbos etc, a v6 gasser is easy. Not saying anyone can do it, just an engine is an engine. on cars, airplanes, etc. To close this goes back to my first paragraph. Just because you are an independent dealer please to not force your beliefs on me. All Lexus owners are not morons. I have had my cars, bikes, trucks, etc worked on by ASE people and let me say this. There are some really good one and some really bad ones so the ASE cert is WAY overrated. **Again Lexus will cover the engine in the time given for us Es owners, not JPI. I would be smart to listen to Lexus, the manufacture of the car.

Bigrick---A lot of places to oil testing. I have to get my oil in my car tested, along with the tranny oil and my gsxr-1100 oil tested. See what is up with that also. Oh, many tractor trailer places to it, blackstone and Amsoil are a select few. there are many more. Price is from 10 to $15 USA

Lexus Freak- I am not taking anything to heart, so do not worry.:) I do not get that fired up over this. I have WAY more important things in life then this topic. I think there were only a select few of cars (in the thousands) that this happened to. I want to say only like 3000 but I could be wrong. Also “the Lexus free engine” program :D is only good for 8 years or 1,000,000 miles (kidding-unlimited miles). I doubt that it would be 50% of the owners at all. I would say since Lexus manufactured a lot of ES’s in the time frame it would not be a large %. I think it was less then 0.1 % of all US sales were effected by it. Reason, you ask? Ask Lexus, since I only know what they sent me & read online. It was only form cars sold in a certain time frame. From what I understand it was from re-designed cooling passages to the cylinder heads to increase temps in exhust (emission reasons). Thank you local and or state reps for this! As far as the engine, no engine is 100% the same. There is some variation due to design. Again I do not build cars on airplane engine for military and commercial. Plus they, (Lexus) can’t make a global statement saying “all the engines are bad”. Why would they? Only replace the engines that need to be replace and go from there. From a budget standpoint that is suicide. On that note I believe the Toyota 2.2L was dropped for this reason. *I believe there is only a recall with safety, not engine flaws. It might be a TSB of some kind if you are lucky. THE NHSB (sp?) makes them recall for safety, not for design flaws. I will look for it. I got it around the same time I got some emission notice from Lexus. I just remember reading it really close to see what they stated. I did get another letter about it, but that is thrown out I think. As far as JPI on the front lines yes, that is great; but my take is why do these silly oil changes? Why not have the engine go now while Lexus is in the spot light and not 16 years down the road out of the “Free Engine Program”? It will just cause you more $$$ down the road with the oil changes. If Lexus knows, why do the low oil changes to prolong it? You are NOT preventing anything, just a quick fix.

I must say this since there NO experts in this area, only educated users and people that know alot. Lexus is maybe 50% of an expert. There corrective action, PER LEXUS was to “show reasonable evidence of regular engine maintenance, Toyota will cover expenses related to the condition.” This was taken from a LEXUS letter, not on some board or word of mouth from a dealer or whatever. I trust legal letters/documents since it helps the customer out in the end. What does word of mouth cover? ZERO Again, nowhere in the car manual or letter does it say 3 to 5K for a drain to prevent this sludge problem (correct me if I am wrong). Five thousand is for severe driving, that is in the book/manual. Again, the 3 to 5K mile drains are huge waste of time and money since dealers want this to make money; never mind this preventing anything sludge related. If you have a bad engine it WILL happen. Doing the 3 to 5K mile changes will not stop anything. Just put a band-aid on it. Junk in my book. On the flip side Lexus, you know, the people that designed, manufactured, distributed, approved by DOT& sold the car/engine,billion-dollar company state otherwise and they will cover the expenses per their letter. Tough call, but the customer(s), me for one have the letter stating this is all that needs to be done. This is not technical stuff at all. It is legal document(s) that were sent out to their customers to aid in this issue. It instructs the people on what to do with their car (maintenance wise) and what to do if it happens, and what Lexus will cover. Sounds like they have a process in-line to me. JPI I am not attacking you here, but I tend to trust , as I use that term loosely, the manufacture of the car and what they have done too help. It is a huge screw up with Lexus and they will try to help or they will lose $$$$. They have "more pull" then any Lexus dealer around x 1000 You could do 2-enginers per week but what caused the sludge? Was in all “the bad design? Any other issues that caused it? What is all documented and tested? Do you have data to back this up? If you have done 2 per week that is 728 engines/cars so far. You must have a lot of Lexus in that area of people driving all over. Hell, my local moron dealer, which I never have gone to or purchased from, would be lucky to even lease/ sell that many in a week.

Based on my design expericence, I will tend to side with the manafacture since they designed the engine. Each to his own.

Jpi- You could be correct but if someone follows the Lexus book/guide (7500 mile drains) they are 100% correct in doing so. They might be too long in someone's option; but there are correct per the Lexus manual. They could also have the oil done at a Lexus dealer at this mileage required (7500 for normal etc). If something goes wrong it is not the customer fault since he followed the manual. If someone user Mobil 1 and drained every 8K miles then I would go after Lexus. Let the manufacture deal with it since this is a problem for the last several years. To close, I stated before it is not an oil issue. Again the short drains of 3 to 5K are just a mask and not really fixing anything, waste of time and money. If you have one of the “sludge” engine it WILL happen. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but it will. If you are that worried why not drain the oil every Friday after work! Just spend the approx $15 and test the oil. Good piece of mind. PS. I agree, I would not say those people are stupid. It is just that common sense is not common in “that breed”.Money yes, brains..no.

if you trade it in, the dealer will give you zero for it. If you re-sell it to a middle age person, no. If you sell it to a young kind, maybe 30% back. I never customize my toys since you will never get back the $$$. Just because you like it, the odds of the next guy is very slim.

Well I finally contacted Amsoil on this issue since I have used their oil for a longtime and wondered their take on this. Just for FYI if nothing more. So, I guess now matter what oil you use it “might happen”. It is a function of the engine. It will either have it or not. It is also not related to engine oils. As I was told, the ONLY way to tell if you have a bad engine is determined by an oil analysis test. The test will show major problems in OXD, NOX, water and TBN veryyyy low <4. I will say that if your using any oil that the TBN is that low you better use another oil! Water is important here, which is a huge red flag. Never had water above 0.01 in cars and 0.05 in motorcycle (start and stops a lot). High Oxidation and Nitration is due to elevated levels in acid, viscosity and sludge respectfully. Also solids will increase if you have a bad motor. Since I have been doing oil tests in all my cars, trucks, motorcycle & tractors for over 10 years (not really long). I have never seen high rates (%) in these areas. My TBN has never dropped below 10.1 in all my cars/trucks/etc. I will not go into the trace elements since it does not matter to this tread. My NOx levels have never gone above 16.2 in my 1997 Ford diesel with over 15K miles on the oil (7 times longer then book). The oil was perfect too! So to sum it up I would do an oil tests and check the results. All these short 3,000 mile changes are a huge waste of $$$$$ & only mask the problem. Not a real corrective action in my book. Just spend the $14 to $16 and see what is up. This is NOT a play on the oil I use. Just something to think about.

I would change the fluid but that is me. I do mine every 30 to 40K (running Amosil). Been using it for a long time.

I do not know what everyone else got, but I believe Lexus sent a letter to the ES300 people stating this issue. The letter in summary stated “…and the owner can show reasonable evidence of regular engine maintenance, Toyota will cover expenses related to the condition. My Lexus manuals stipulates oil changes every 7,500 miles or six months, whichever comes first under normal driving conditions, and 5,000 miles or four months under severe operating conditions. So in my book if you follow these you are good to go. But then again, what does “reasonable” mean? I assume (which is bad) that it is longer drains but I do not know. I know that some people have encountered oil gelling when using the same oil for up to (4) times the normal schedule (with regular oil). But if you follow the manual you will be fine. The 3,000 mile is waste and the 5K mile change is for severe if it is related to your driving style. From what I have read with these problems, is the owners are clueless out the gelling problem. Never-mind that they do not even know that you needed to ever change the oil! Lastly, this issue at hand is nothing new either. Been around for few years.

Yup, I got mine on Ebay last spring for $75 shipped to house (for all 4 OEM mats). The problem is I can't find more!

Maybe I am all wet here but I thought you check for ball joints when pushing and pulling the tire (at 12 and 6)

oh, m2-c-The fluid fill should be up to the fill mark all the time. I drive 1 hour home from college 3 nights a week and I try to check once per month. It is right where it should be. I also check PS fluid,engine, and brake. All ok. the break fluids is drained twice per year. By drained I mean with a syringe.

The only thing I will say is the the engineer that designed the rear diff should be shot. Nice place to put the drain.....about 2 inches from the body. If anyone needs any more info let me know. I will post the stuff for ya.