Flushed Power Steering, Cleaned Solenoid Screen

j.barleycorn · January 16, 2006

UPDATE FOR ANYONE REMOTELY INTERESTED... My steering has still not improved since the flush etc I did.

Mustang, I appreciate the advice, but I don't want to get in there with a screwdriver when I can't see what I am doing.

I am confident nothing bad happened/is happening, so, I will either wait to take another shot at it until I get in there and do the PS pump seals, or............

Hi Monarch,

Thanks for the pics! :cheers: When you pulled the reservoir off the pump, what did the connection to the pump consist of? Was there a seal or ring or ? In other words, if I removed the reservoir to get at the screen, can I put it back "easily" without additional parts, or worries of leaks?

Thanks... depending on your answer, I might not wait until Spring to try and improve the situation.

monarch · January 16, 2006

j.barleycorn, the connection to the power steering pump is merely that little black rubber O-ring you see in this photo http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/psa.jpg that goes around the protrusion marked "spray in here". If you want to change this O-ring after removing the reservoir to be assurred of a leak free seal, is included with the $25 power steering pump reseal kit you can buy from any Lexus dealer.

j.barleycorn · January 22, 2006

OK… Because I just can’t live with the hard steering anymore, and thanks to Monarch’s great pics, I’m in process of taking the reservoir off the car and trying to literally get to the bottom of this issue once and for all!

As of this writing I have 2 of the 3 screws that hold the reservoir to the pump, and just came in to reference the picture to find out where the third screw is.

If I am successful, I’ll take some pics and let everyone know what worked and what didn’t.

I hope to have it off and soaking before kick-off!

Threadcutter · January 22, 2006

OK… Because I just can’t live with the hard steering anymore, and thanks to Monarch’s great pics, I’m in process of taking the reservoir off the car and trying to literally get to the bottom of this issue once and for all!

As of this writing I have 2 of the 3 screws that hold the reservoir to the pump, and just came in to reference the picture to find out where the third screw is.

If I am successful, I’ll take some pics and let everyone know what worked and what didn’t.

I hope to have it off and soaking before kick-off!

barley:

If you have already removed the rack solenoid and cleaned the "filter" (I use that term loosely) on it, then you should also check the flow control valve on the P/S pump itself. It is under the "Pressure Port Union", which is what the Power Steering high pressure hose attaches to. It is easiest by far to remove the pressure port union with the P/S pump still attached to the engine block. Anyway, remove the pressure port union and the flow control valve is underneath (up inside the hole). After you've removed the P/P Union, shove your little finger up into the hole, compress the spring on the flow control valve, pull you finger out quickly & the flow control valve should pop out. I strongly suggest that you don't pull your finger out all the way because you really don't want to drop the valve & spring into the "Nether Regions". You also need to pay close attention to the orientation of the flow control valve & spring so that you can put it back together correctly. Once you've got the valve out, look for any blockages/obstructions. If there are any, clean the valve in fresh brake fluid. If need be, you can dis-assemble the valve, but that shouldn't be necessary. It is not complicated, you'll see what I'm saying once you start pulling it apart.

However, I suspect your solenoid. The solenoid opens fully (maximum flow) at low speed, giving the most "assist" to the Power Steering system. At high speeds, the solenoid closes, reducing the flow of P/S fluid, reducing the "assist" to the P/S system. It makes sense that you'd want the most "assist' at low speeds, like parallel parking. If you remove the solenoid, you can check the solenoid by temporarily connecting it to a 12 Vdc source like a battery. It should "click" & the plunger should move. If not, double check it with an ohm meter. My guess is that the resistance will be somewhere between 5 & 20 Ohms. That's just a guess though. If it measures into the 100's of Kohms or MegOhms, then it's open circuited, dead & no amount of holy water will resurrect it. If it measures good, then you either have dirty electrical contacts or a broken wire at the connector, or internally in the body of the solenoid. That is the big reason I've always been uncomfortable using vice grips to remove the solenoid. The metal "can" (cover) can/will spin, twisting the wires, possibly breaking them. That is also why I'm much more comfortable using a hammer & punch to loosen the solenoid for removal, inspite of the "neanderthal" nature of doing it that way.

j.barleycorn · January 22, 2006

T-cutter-

Your advice is greatly appreciated. First, the latest:

Fortunately/unfortunately I could not get to the third reservoir screw without (apparently) disassembling numerous innocents, so I put the other two screws back and flushed again, since it was all set up.

This time when bleeding the system I cranked hard and held it when coming to the stops in both directions. The system groaned loudly, but after three or four cycles of this, the pitch dropped an octave and the groaning eventually went away all together, as did the little “buzzing” sound from the pump in between the stops.

This brought me higher hopes, as there had been residual pump noise since the fist flushing weeks ago.

But, alas, after taking it off the jacks and going for a spin, the steering (while slightly improved) is still hard.

--------------------------------------------

I read with great interest your solenoid theories. I did disconnect the wires before removing the solenoid. and the vice grips were used only to get it turning (much like the tapping of a chisel). As soon as it was free, I unscrewed it by hand. I was extremely careful.

I will crawl under and make sure 1) it is still connected and 2) that the contacts are not dirty (as AZ also suggested awhile back, but I was so sure they were connected I did not recheck). Also, of course, I will check for any broken wires.

I have high hopes the contacts are dirty. It would make sense, as the steering was fine before I flushed and cleaned the solenoid screen… which I did ONLY to hopefully prevent any leaks threats to the alternator.

I’ll let you know what the results are. Thanks again! :cheers:

mustang2v · January 23, 2006

I did say that I don't advise to do the screwdriver trick. The only way to fix it right it to get a new reservoir.

I tried last week again to clean another screen I had no luck had to install a new reservoir.

j.barleycorn · March 11, 2006

Ah, the topic rearing its ugly head again....

There has been no improvement in the steering since the flush, etc. The steering is hard, the pump buzzes when the fluid is warm, and groans like a whale in labor on slow tight turns.

With the warmer (50 degrees+) weather up here, most major home repairs done, and a newly reorganized garage in place, decided to throw the old multimeter on the power steering solenoid as Threadcutter suggested. I did not remove the solenoid from the car to check actuation. Decided to see what kind of current it was enjoying before resorting to draining/removal.

Meter says 6.8 volts. Does anyone know if this is good or bad? Under power there is a small magnetism present on the solenoid body.

Also, for the heck of it, I used Coastal DEXRON-III MERCON auto trans fluid for the flush, (approved for H specification). Based on what I read, this should have been OK to use. Was it? :unsure:

Thanks for any additional insight...

Threadcutter · March 11, 2006

barley:

Meter says 6.8 volts. Does anyone know if this is good or bad? Under power there is a small magnetism present on the solenoid body.

I have not checked the applied voltage of mine with a meter, but I would strongly suspect that it should be 12 Vdc, +/- 1Vdc. 6.8 Vdc sounds suspicious.

On a recent post of "someone's" within the last 2 weeks, they pulled the solenoid off entirely, removed the screen & "tap tested" or "buzzed" the solenoid with 12 Vdc from the battery. The armature (or center pin) of the solenoid was not travelling the entire length, resulting in a partially open (or closed, depending on how you look at it) orifice. They cleaned the gunk out of the center pin passageway, & "viola"......life was good.....

Why don't you pull that little POS (the solenoid) off, remove the screen, buzz test the solenoid & make sure that the center pin is travelling the full distance that it should. I'll bet it's partially jammed, so the orifice is not fully opening, making your steering difficult at low speed. And I'll further bet that when the center pin travels freely, you'll measure about 12 Vdc across it.

Also, for the heck of it, I used Coastal DEXRON-III MERCON auto trans fluid for the flush.

I don't think the fluid type has much effect on what you're dealing with right now.

Oh, & another suggestion; Remove the flow control valve from the Pump. It's under the Pressure Port union, which is what the high pressure P/S line connects to. The flow control valve may be partially clogged too........I haven't seen that "yet", but there's a first for everything.

The further I read back on this thread, the more I think you've got a clog somewhere in the closed circuit. There just are not that many places it could be. Or, it could be multiple smaller clogs, like everywhere there's a filter/screen.

Something else that bothers me (in general). Why does everyone seem to want to do their flushes with all of the filters/screens in place? I removed mine temporarily, did the flush, & re-installed them.

Good luck & let us know what happens.

j.barleycorn · March 11, 2006

OK... a nice sunny day, perfect for crawling around under the car and trying again for Nirvana.

I drained the PS reservoir and got a light down inside. The screeen appears intact (miracle) and clean (miracle).

Unplugged the wire connection and removed the solenoid. The screen in still 98% clean; happy to see that.

Tested the solenoid using 12Vdc, the plunger clicks and actuates, with what I assume is the full range of motion (I can see hole appear and disappear through the window when the screen is removed).

Going back outside to ponder the flow control valve. If that looks OK, I think I will put the solenoid back on without the screen, reconnect everything, and see what happens.

j.barleycorn · March 11, 2006

OK... found it more fun to actuate the solenoid and study how far it is opening.

Here are some pictures, enhanced in a ham-handed way to clarify what the camera can't quite illustrate.

For those lucky enough to be so intimate with their PSS, here she is without her screen on... OOH LA LA!

Here she is with no power applied. All ports closed. Keep movin, sailor!

Here she is after catching a little buzz. Three ports appear to be exactly 1/2 open. 1 port appears to be 3/4 open.

Like Sgt. Schultz, I know Nah-thing! But, It does seem suspicious they would not all open the same. I have sprayed lots of brake fluid through the ports and through the hole in the top. No change in openings under power.

Opinions, fine folks?

RFeldes · March 11, 2006

Why only 6.8 volts at the solenoid? Would be my question. Did you check the voltage at the solenoid when you applied 12 volts? If not...I don't have my 90 LS anymore but would have been glad to go under there and check it for you. If I were where you are at this juncture. I would disconnect the installed solenoid and apply 12 volts from a battery charger and start her up Steering left to right and see if there is any difference and check the voltage at the solenoid with the charger attached.

If it is still at 6.8 V and considering all ports don't open the same my next step would be to head for a junkyard and retrieve another solenoid.

If it reads 12 V and the steering improves I would be looking for a partially frayed lead inside the wiring cover near where it attaches to the solenoid.. As sometimes those wires are twisted when removing the solenoid.

j.barleycorn · March 12, 2006

Thanks RF-

I am not confident of my voltage readings the other day, as I found it hard to get a consistent reading. 6.8 was the highest I read; the first few times were less than that. I’ve never been much electrically and I am either over my head or in denial on this one.

I checked the wires running to, and on, the solenoid. They all look fine. The connectors look fine too.

When I was burping the system this time, I could make the pump noise disappear COMPLETELY when I reached the left or right stop and held it there with some pressure. Groaning went to 0. But as soon as I moved the wheel a ¼” back towards center, Chewbacca starts screaming again.

There was some improvement at low speed, but the pump is louder… still always buzzing a little, and still groaning loudly on low speed turns (as in, people turn to look to see what the heck is making that awful noise).

Observations I have made, which may mean something to someone, but are a mere curiosity to Sgt. Schultz:

The easier it is to turn the wheels, the louder the pump tends to be.

At low speeds, the wheel turns easier when turning left vs. turning right.

Question I cannot answer:

What could have happened during the now infamous flushing and screen clean, since the pump never went dry, the wires never got crimped/frayed, the hoses went back on the way they are supposed to, and I am not losing fluid anywhere?

I am attaching the PPS schematic for those more electrically inclined than myself. It contains a nice description of how the system operates. Perhaps in somewhere in this current flow there is something else I should be checking? If so, please provide fairly detailed “put one end on the blank and the other on the blank” instructions.

pps.pdf

Not giving up, as I hate replacing parts unless I know all is lost.

Thanks again to all that have taken stabs at this.

dcfish · March 12, 2006

Thanks RF-

I am not confident of my voltage readings the other day, as I found it hard to get a consistent reading. 6.8 was the highest I read; the first few times were less than that. I’ve never been much electrically and I am either over my head or in denial on this one.

I checked the wires running to, and on, the solenoid. They all look fine. The connectors look fine too.

When I was burping the system this time, I could make the pump noise disappear COMPLETELY when I reached the left or right stop and held it there with some pressure. Groaning went to 0. But as soon as I moved the wheel a ¼” back towards center, Chewbacca starts screaming again.

There was some improvement at low speed, but the pump is louder… still always buzzing a little, and still groaning loudly on low speed turns (as in, people turn to look to see what the heck is making that awful noise).

Observations I have made, which may mean something to someone, but are a mere curiosity to Sgt. Schultz:

The easier it is to turn the wheels, the louder the pump tends to be.

At low speeds, the wheel turns easier when turning left vs. turning right.

Question I cannot answer:

What could have happened during the now infamous flushing and screen clean, since the pump never went dry, the wires never got crimped/frayed, the hoses went back on the way they are supposed to, and I am not losing fluid anywhere?

I am attaching the PPS schematic for those more electrically inclined than myself. It contains a nice description of how the system operates. Perhaps in somewhere in this current flow there is something else I should be checking? If so, please provide fairly detailed “put one end on the blank and the other on the blank” instructions.

pps.pdf

Not giving up, as I hate replacing parts unless I know all is lost.

Thanks again to all that have taken stabs at this.

Hope you can use this:

It is all I have :whistles:

power_steering_specs.pdf

power_steering.pdf

j.barleycorn · March 12, 2006

Thanks DC-

I did not have these documents for some reason; perhaps I did not download them the day I grabbed all of the other 1992 repair manual pages. I'll add these to my collection of clues.

There is an answer somewhere. Good things sometimes come to misers who watch, ask, try, and try again!

dcfish · March 12, 2006

Thanks DC-

I did not have these documents for some reason; perhaps I did not download them the day I grabbed all of the other 1992 repair manual pages. I'll add these to my collection of clues.

There is an answer somewhere. Good things sometimes come to misers who watch, ask, try, and try again!

No problem, Glad to be of service ;)

You owe me a beer :cheers:

John2 · March 13, 2006

barley,

my experience: did pump change yr ago b/c of air control leak, no cleaning of either screens. after, i filled and turned wheels-- MUCH whining that took long time to subside. took for dirve, did fine, then PS went away and was like dirinvg w/ no power steer... then would come back. it did this for days-- i thought i messed something up... finally quit.

then 2 mo. ago- did flush and soln. screen- and filled. not much whining and no dead power steering. can't explain. only hope to add to data... sorry.

jc

blbraun · March 28, 2006

My 1992 LS400 (93.500 miles) had no known problem with the steering, and the pump made no noises. This is my first Lexus, and therefore I didn’t know whether all was well or not.

After discovering a small amount of power steering fluid on the windings on the bottom of my alternator and associated wet/dirty hose connections below the reservoir, I read up on innumerable posts regarding power steering flushing/solenoid and reservoir screen cleaning etc. and decided to dive in and do battle.

I rounded up all the stuff needed, thanks to the tutorials and numerous posts by Monarch, Threadcutter, and others. I even hauled out the digital camera and took many pictures showing the removal of the solenoid and the removal and cleaning of the screen.

All went well, and for the most part, the way most others described their experiences:

Drained the reservoir first. It appeared the fluid in the system was original, as it was a brown/tan color. It smelled smoky, frankly a lot like bong-water from those days of yore.

Removed the solenoid, using vice grips; no problem. The screen was completely covered with black gunk. Removed it per Threadcutter’s advice (blade), and cleaned it gently and repeatedly with brake cleaner and a toothpick.

Not knowing what would happen during the flush if I re-installed the solenoid without the screen, I put the screen back on and re-installed the solenoid. (I’d read posts where folks have flushed without the screen, and also those who have flushed with the screen, then removed it again, cleaned it, and re-installed).

Disconnected the return hose, rigged up the 3/8 tubing, and flushed the system with Dexron III. The only thing different from all the other posts I read was that the it only took one quart to flush the old color completely out of the system. I see in most instruction it could take up to 7 quarts to do it, depending on the condition of the original fluid.

(I wonder if cleaning the solenoid screen first makes the flush more efficient, thereby using less fluid to flush the system clean?)

I drained the reservoir again, and took the solenoid off (again) to check the screen. It was still completely clean. Reinstalled the solenoid.

Reconnected the return hose and filled up the reservoir with Dexron III. Left the cap off, started the car, and turned the wheel lock to lock slowly at least a dozen times to get rid of the air in the system.

The car (pump) made loud whining noises from the time the engine turned over, throughout the “burping” process. The noise seemed to get a little fainter as the number of lock-to-lock cycles increased, but eventually seemed to settle in. (I have since seen a post indicating the lock-to-lock should go for 50 cycles to get all the air out?)

I put the cap back on, took the car off the jacks, and took it out for a spin.

At 0+ MPH and low speeds, the car steers like it has no power steering at all. Turning right after a stop is laborious. As the RPMs and MPH pick up, it handles and steers like it did before the flush/cleaning, which seemed fine to me.

I am definitely not getting the “one finger” steering others have described, at any speed.

Took at back home after about a 6 mile drive and parked it. Went back on the LOC and searched under the word “whine” for some clues. Obviously, it could be many things, from disaster to fluid level. One thread suggested leaving the reservoir cap off over night to let the air breathe out, and liking this easy and free option, I went back out to take the cap off and call it a night.

The fluid level was down about 1/2” below the lip of the reservoir, normal I would say. It was pretty much up to the top when I finished “burping” it before the test drive. That missing ½” looks like it came out from under the cap, as the hoses and guards below the reservoir are freshly wetted, and I have a nice red stain just in front and inside my front passenger tire.

So, why the hard steering all of a sudden, especially when the flush/cleaning was supposed to restore one-finger steering?

If the reservoir was too full, would the pressure cause the fluid to escape through the cap?

Why did the pump whine so after the flush and cleaning, when before the flush/clean it made no sound, and offered easy steering through the full range of RPMs/MPH?

I know this topic has been covered to death. I just hope someone has some words of wisdom for this particular situation. ALL HELP APPRECIATED!

Threadcutter · March 30, 2006

blbraun:

Removed the solenoid, using vice grips; no problem. The screen was completely covered with black gunk. Removed it per Threadcutter’s advice (blade), and cleaned it gently and repeatedly with brake cleaner and a toothpick.

I drained the reservoir again, and took the solenoid off (again) to check the screen. It was still completely clean. Reinstalled the solenoid.

OK, so it's pretty evident that your screen is clean.....Good.......

At 0+ MPH and low speeds, the car steers like it has no power steering at all. Turning right after a stop is laborious. As the RPMs and MPH pick up, it handles and steers like it did before the flush/cleaning, which seemed fine to me.

Are you absolutely, 100% certain that the electrical connector on the solenoid is completely seated properly? I'm very suspicious that it isn't making good connection.

If the reservoir was too full, would the pressure cause the fluid to escape through the cap?

Yep..

Leadfoot · April 12, 2006

Observations I have made, which may mean something to someone, but are a mere curiosity to Sgt. Schultz:

The easier it is to turn the wheels, the louder the pump tends to be.

At low speeds, the wheel turns easier when turning left vs. turning right.

Could be your rack is shot, apparently they were a weak design. Mine would turn left no problem, yet sometimes it would sieze completely turning right! Only a rebuilt rack and pump got me the one finger steering again. Had to replace the altenator too. I get the feeling you are in for a similar experience.

j.barleycorn · April 20, 2006

Hi folks-

Back to the thread after a long absence. Still no improvement, and now worse/different developments. :censored:

Before I get started: T-Cutter, yes, I agree it would seem the electrical connection could/should be the culprit, but I cannot find any evidence of poor connection or damage from disconnecting prior to flushings. I was preparing to throw out to the LOC the possibility that the speed sensor or ECU went bad or needs resetting when the spots on the driveway were found.

Leadfoot- You may be right, but I hope you’re not! There seems to be consensus here that the rack is the last resort, and I had no steering problems prior to the first flush.

I had driven the car ~ 6,000 miles since the fateful flush, with no leaks. Then one day recently my wife says she noticed wet spots in the garage where I parked. I assumed this was from recent work I did on the 4runner rear seals, but alas, it was from the Lexus.

As fate would have it, I had just purchased a 2000 Tacoma to replace the 4runner, so I have let the Lexus sit. I put a box under it to help determine what was leaking, and from where.

Tonight I finally crawled under. “Everything” in the area to the side and beneath the alternator is quite wet with PS fluid. I have no idea what finally happened to cause this. Enough fluid has leaked to put it below the COLD level on the cap stick. This is a much larger leak than I saw when I first decided to clean the solenoid screen and flush (to prevent further leaks, or so I thought). These leaks are gravity leaks, not necessarily only from pressure.

The only "positive" I can find in this is PERHAPS the poor low-speed steering had to do with a lack of pressure in the system because of a small leak(s) that eventually became bigger and now noticeable?!

I am attaching some pictures of my debacle. Please offer educated opinions!

Lower engine cover has been removed. View from front to back:

Below the alternator looking up towards ACV (which does not appear to be leaking)

Other view from below; extensive wetness but cannot pin point from where

View from top where all appears normal.

I have about given up on an “easy” solution. Looking back at the many threads on this topic, there are numerous suggestions to take care of leaks in this order:

1. Clean the screens (solenoid/reservoir) and see if that alleviates the leakage.

2. Replace the air control valve attached to the PS pump.

3. Replace the rubber 0-ring sealing rings inside or

attached to the PS pump using a $25 PS pump reseal kit purchased

from irontoad.com or your local Lexus dealer.

4. Buy a new pump from irontoad.com, rebuilt pump from Autozone or

take your chances with ebay.

5. Last resort is to replace the expensive high pressure PS hose assembly.

Based on the trials and tribulations thus far, and based on the pictures, should I skip directly to tearing it all apart and replacing the pump and checking condition of all hoses etc while the car is torn down?

I have given up trying to understand how flushing the system somehow contributed to the whole system being the way it is now, including the leaking. I know the system was leaking when I bought the car, as the alternator had just been replaced, so perhaps this was just a matter of time, and it was a relative "coincidence" it happened when I flushed the system. <_< I don't really believe that, but it sounds good!

Threadcutter · April 20, 2006

barley:

Weird as it may sound, I think that your having found the pump leaking as badly as it has is actually good news. I'd suggest taking your "operating room" clean hands and touch all around the pump to try and see where the leak is emanating from. I'd just replace the pump with a re-build, complete with reservoir. Have you looked at the instructions P/S Pump Rebuild for the rebuild? I did & I opted for the easy way out. Relatively speaking, mine was a piece of cake & I haven't had any problems in the 6 months since I changed it.

I'm not inclined to think that you have any problems with your rack at this point in time. I think you said that you did a fluid flush/change & that's when the problem started. In other words, the steering was fine before & "viola" it was rotten after the flush. Is this correct?

I'd get a rebuilt pump, new ACV, & probably a rebuilt Denso alternator & install all of them. You're probably not warm to the idea, but I'd do another flush with the solenoid screen removed. Why am I so wrapped around the axle about the screen being removed? Because, if the screen is clogged, the discharge/high pressure side of the pump won't "see" excessively high pressure. Also, with the screen removed the flushing fluid will travel through the system at a higher velocity & possibly take more contaminants with it. Also, you should check or have an Indie check the high pressure line that goes from the discharge side of the pump down to the rack. If there were an obstruction in there, that could account for the leaking pump. Check the flow control valve that lives in the pump under the pressure port union.

j.barleycorn · April 20, 2006

barley:

Weird as it may sound, I think that your having found the pump leaking as badly as it has is actually good news. I'd suggest taking your "operating room" clean hands and touch all around the pump to try and see where the leak is emanating from. I'd just replace the pump with a re-build, complete with reservoir. Have you looked at the instructions P/S Pump Rebuild for the rebuild? I did & I opted for the easy way out. Relatively speaking, mine was a piece of cake & I haven't had any problems in the 6 months since I changed it.

Yep, I looked at the rebuild how-to a long time ago, and agree I would opt for the easy way out at this point. To get a good idea of where the system is leaking I will need to pressure wash the entire area. Any risks to this? My "operating clean hands" would be black immediately otherwise. Speaking of hands, I don't see anyway possible to get my hands anywhere near the pump without significant disassembly.

I'm not inclined to think that you have any problems with your rack at this point in time. I think you said that you did a fluid flush/change & that's when the problem started. In other words, the steering was fine before & "viola" it was rotten after the flush. Is this correct?

Yep, that is correct.

I'd get a rebuilt pump, new ACV, & probably a rebuilt Denso alternator & install all of them.

The alternator still works fine, so I believe all is OK there.

You're probably not warm to the idea, but I'd do another flush with the solenoid screen removed. Why am I so wrapped around the axle about the screen being removed? Because, if the screen is clogged, the discharge/high pressure side of the pump won't "see" excessively high pressure. Also, with the screen removed the flushing fluid will travel through the system at a higher velocity & possibly take more contaminants with it.

I am willing to try this... but are you suggesting doing this BEFORE I install a new pump and see if it does anything? I agree with the higher velocity theory, but if there were contaminants still in the system, it seems they would have shown on the screen during the three flushings I have done, plus normal driving, and the screen is still as clean as the day I first cleaned it.

[Also, you should check or have an Indie check the high pressure line that goes from the discharge side of the pump down to the rack. If there were an obstruction in there, that could account for the leaking pump. Check the flow control valve that lives in the pump under the pressure port union.

If I had to bet money at this point, I would agree with you that something is going on with this portion of the system. Can you describe how I would check this? How do I go about checking the FCV? Can these things be accessed while the system is still operational??

Sorry for the screwed-up colors. Tried to make the answers quick and easy, and am late for work, so I have no editing time!

hacmon · April 22, 2006

From what I can tell, there are but a few places where PS can leak in the area you took the pictures (air control valve, return hose, high pressure union, reservoir connection).

Two things you said from your prior posts that make me think it is the reservoir connection. More specifically, I think the o-ring on the reservoir has failed and are causing the leak and the buzzing sound/hard steering you are experiencing.

(1) You attempted to remove the reservoir. Over the years the o-ring on the reservoir hardened and probably failed when you attempted the removal. This can cause excessively amount of PS fluid to leak (even when the care is not running) similar to what your picture shows.

(2) You were unable to completely get rid of the whining/buzzing sound and still experience hard steering at times. These sounds like symptoms of air in the PS system. Normally, if the PS system does not leak, a few turns end-to-end while the front wheels are off the ground should purge the system of air. However, if the system is not completely seal, air will be introduced to the PS system and you may never completely purge the system. If the same o-ring between the reservoir and PS pump fails, air could get into the system and thus you never could purge yours completely.

As far as I can tell, you haven't tried replacing that o-ring yet.

Probably the cheapest and easiest thing to try at this point is to replace that o-ring. It is part of the "reseal kit" when rebuilding the PS pump. Or, if you're resourceful, rummage through your local hardware stores to find a similarly sized o-ring. From what I can tell, it seems very ordinary (didn't want you to blow $30 on a reseal kit only so you can get hold of a $0.45 o-ring).

Since you weren't able to remove the reservoir before, let me see if I can help. You were able to remove 2 of the 3 bolts before. I'll just concentrate on the bolt that is on top but difficult to get to unless you remove a handful of trim pieces. Normally not too big of a deal. However, one of those pieces is what the mechanics at the Lexus garage at times referred to as *** pardon my language *** the ELEPHANT D%CK. It is a pain to take off of the throttle body.

Here's how I did it. Remove the air filter box and move the mass airflow sensor box and piping out of the way. You have probably already done this in order to remove 1 of the bolts that holds the reservoir.

I used just and ordinary open-end 12mm wrench (mine is a Craftsman about 6" long with open-end on one end and box-end on the other). Standing where the fender is at (more like where the headlight is at) and looking at the reservoir, you can see the top bolt that holds the reservoir.

Now if you look to the left and to the right of the reservoir, you can make out some spaces. These spaces are just big enough to get the 12mm wrench in turn. You get a little more spaces on the left to work with if you remove the return hose from the reservoir (careful since fluid remaining in the reservoir will leak out).

This isn't rocket science. You just need to get your 12mm wrench on the bolt and loose it. Since the left side has slightly more space around the bolt, use that side to get in to the bolt and tiny-turn-by-tiny turn remove the bolt.

Hint 1: If you don't have enough leverage on the left side to "break" the bolt loose, try the right side. The space to the right is smaller around the bolt but is quite free of obstruction away from the bolt. Best to use this side to “break" the bolt free since you can apply more force from this side. Very limited movement but all you need is enough to break the bolt loose.

Hint 2: My 12mm wrench (and probably most other) has slightly different angle if I turn the wrench over (still talking about the open-end here). Use that slight angle difference to help remove the bolt when you're in a tight space.

Hint 3: Once you have loosen the bolt, you can get the 12mm partially on the bolt by leaning the wrench more vertically and use top space between the reservoir top and the distributor plastic cover. If bolt is already loosened, "partial" fit with the 12mm is enough to continue loosening the bolt.

If you're going to replace that o-ring and still can't get the bolt off. Post a message and I'll snap a few pictures of wrench placement to try.

Good luck with your repair.

Tom

j.barleycorn · April 22, 2006

Hi Tom-

Welcome to LOC, and thank you for the reply. :cheers:

I am attaching a picture of a reservoir to illustrate which bolts I removed, the one I could not remove, and one I could not get back on.

(Picture orginally published by Monarch, if memory serves; I manipulated the image to position the reservoir as you would see it if looking at it from the right front fender).

I like your theory and agree that leaks would cause air in the system and the whining... but the whining started immediately after the first flush ( I did three over the course of 3 months). I attempted to remove the reservoir during the 2nd attempt (January 22). The leak has been since the last attempt, beginning quite awhile afterwards.

Here's the details of the reservoir removal attempt:

Standing to the side, reaching over the passenger (right front) fender, I removed the bolt nearest me (#1) using the 12mm craftsman open/box wrench. Easiest of the three. :)

I then removed the one furthest from me (#2), on the opposite side of the reservoir from the same position, using 12mm as you described... I don't remember having too much trouble, but did begin to wonder if there would be a problem getting it to seat long enough to thread it back in. <_< More later.

I then tried the one towards the front of the car, and tried for a long time from every angle with multiple tools. No luck. Gave up after about an hour. :angry: It looked like I MAY have been able to get to this bolt if the pulley was in a slightly different position as, I might have been able to get at it through the slot in the pully’s face.

Then I spent another hour trying to get #2 back on. No go. :angry: #1 went back on easily. The reservoir seemed as tight and secure as it did with three bolts, so I decided not to worry too much.:whistles: I hated to leave something undone, but for the life of me I just could not get the threading started.

I suppose it could be true that without bolt #2 on there could be a leak from the area where the reservoir seats with the pump. I will try again tomorrow to get #2 on. I would like to avoid removing the ELEHANT PHALLUS! :o

Unfortunately, even if I am successful and stop the leak, I will be back to a whining pump and hard steering.

hacmon · April 23, 2006

I see that I was mistaken as to which bolt was giving you problem. I believe you will have to remove the PS pulley inorder to remove the "front" bolt. Not a difficult task if I remember correctly.

Loosen the 17mm nut on the pulley. Then a 14mm on the serpentine belt tensioner to give slack to the serpentine belt to pull of the PS pulley. Pull out the pulley. Clear access to the resevoir front bolt.

About getting the top bolt back on, may be get someone with more slim fingers to get that top bolt started onto the thread?

Hopefully, the easiest taks (replacing the o-ring) can give you a dry garage and may possibly take care of the whinning as well. Worth a try before other more drastic measures.