LES experience amazing

[Bykfixer]

I was reading a bit about the LFA offspring the Lexus Electrified Sport just now. 

Holy cow, 0-60 in under 3 seconds…430 mile range? What's not to like about that? 

And later down the road (pun intended) Direct4 AWD technology. 

Experience Amazing. 

[RX400h]

Solid state batteries? What is the estimated cost? Perhaps it will be similar to an electric LC500E.

[Bykfixer]

No idea the sticker price but I'd say "if ya gotta ask ya probably can't afford it"……

I typically wait for cars to become old enough to fall into my price range but I doubt I'll live long enough for one of the LES cars 💀

[Les Lex 2018]

But then again, the RZ 450e with a 0-60 of 5.2 sec. would be great for mountain climbing, but the rumored range of only 225 miles and an out-the-door loaded price north of 70K would qualify it as a novelty.  But, then, there’s a lot of money floating around California, where Lexus would be pushing / sending expensive electrics anyway.

 

[RX400h]

The size of the battery packs/acceleration ability/range are all tradeoffs. American EV companies are currently in competition for all of these things, resulting in 9000 lb vehicles with 1000 HP and 0-60 MPH in 3 seconds.

Obviously and historically, Lexus does not feel it needs to compete for bragging rights.  0-60 MPH in 5.2 seconds is more than 99% of owners will ever need. But remember, solid state batteries may make lithium batteries look like the old carburetors of ancient times. I'm hoping to wait 2-3 years to see what bubbles up to the top of reliable and non-self-igniting EVs.

[Les Lex 2018]

Exactly, Dave!  The technology and geo-politics are changing so fast that you really want to slow down and ask the what-ifs.

And with all the extra weight in the various plug-ins, tires will wear faster and generate more heat. Can't forget the Ford Exploder that kept blowing out tires because Ford and Firestone could not settle on a reasonable weight limit for the specified tire (depending on which side you talk to, of course).

Engineers are only human...

[RX400h]

Les, I think Mr. Toyoda is correct in that everyone is assuming EVs are the future, yet so many countries are oil rich and financially poor. They have no infrastructure for charging stations, solar and windmills.

And then there are the cold weather areas where range would currently be very limited.

[Lexus-CT]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:35 AM, RX400h said:

Les, I think Mr. Toyoda is correct in that everyone is assuming EVs are the future, yet so many countries are oil rich and financially poor. They have no infrastructure for charging stations, solar and windmills.

And then there are the cold weather areas where range would currently be very limited.

Friends in Denmark tell me that price for used EV cars are down, even if wanting to buy a new EV. When cold and want to warm the cabin range is really down,; worst problem though is that in order to make new batteries a lot of energy is needed and according to Volvo if an electric car is not driving 100K km the power (not clean, but from oil) used to make the battery will have polluted more than if an existing fuel powered car was used instead it would have been better for the planet.

I think that Toyota is right not hurrying to make EV cars and trying to find other ways to power cars. Next 24 hours Le Mans could very well be with a Toyota powered with different fuel and Mr Toyoda is maybe just pressed by share holders to try electric cars. He seems to find it excellent to drive the little Corolla with combustion engine running on H2.

Below a picture of Mr. Bean in one:

[Les Lex 2018]

Good comments, John!  My wife said NO to eVs so it's not on my Horizon.

The future for now "seems" to be Hybrids.

I'm a second time owner of a Hybrid with two RX 350s in-between.

Going on two years now, Lexus Hybrids have been hard to keep in stock, so they get to load them up with gimmicks like crazy. Things that don't hold up in the Kelley BB used car book.

Pros: I can go into heavy traffic and not see my MPG go down. Engine is running half the time the brakes still have machine marks after a year because the brakes are not used that often to slow the unit down.  That's if you don't hit them hard.

Cons: My Collision and comprehensive insurance is much higher for the Lexus Hybrid even with zero accidents ever.  Price tag was higher for the Hybrid than the gas guzzler equivalent.

License tag is higher cause they collect an extra tax for driving one in Alabama, to compensate for lost gas tax. That new tax is double if it's an eV.

So, is the Hybrid just another novelty that hasn't caught on yet? Probably!

While the eV is the ultimate novelty, Hybrids with all its Cons are still practical if the owner drives a lot of mile in a year, and especially a lot of city miles.  So will Lexus ditch the eV and concentrate on Hybrids and make less of the legacy gas guzzlers? 

I have no idea, John.

 

[Lexus-CT]

4 hours ago, Les Lex 2018 said:

 So will Lexus ditch the eV and concentrate on Hybrids and make less of the legacy gas guzzlers? 

I have no idea, John.

 

Only future will tell Les.

I am no wizzard with a crystal bowl.

[Lexus-CT]

Some good news, especially for those living in California:

US sales reached the highest ever quarterly volume.
In the United States – specifically in California – hydrogen fuel car sales volume improved in Q2 2023. In fact, it not only improved YOY (year-over-year) but, according to an InsideEVs report, it also reached the highest quarterly volume ever.

Over one thousand new hydrogen cars were sold in the US.
During the second quarter of this year, 1,076 new hydrogen fuel cars were sold in the United States, according to the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Partnership’s FCV sales data from Baum and Associates. This data is based on the fuel cell vehicle sales sold by a dealer to a fleet or retail customer.

InsideEVs notes that the number of hydrogen fuel cars sold in Q2 2023 is 34% higher than a year ago. Moreover, it marks the third time in history that sales have surpassed 1,000 units in a quarter and the highest result ever, with the US’ previous best being 1,034 in Q1 2021. While InsideEVs knows that the difference is “not a groundbreaking change” it’s still interesting.
 

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-fuel-car-sales-2023/8560033/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=i52SXAOYX85DlsU

[Les Lex 2018]

Remember the Hindenburg!  Just kidding!

[Lexus-CT]

41 minutes ago, Les Lex 2018 said:

Remember the Hindenburg!  Just kidding!

All that can burn can be dangerous if not handled correct, and accidents can happen with many things.

If you have a leak on a tank of hydrogen it goes into the air and disappears after a very short while.

If you have a leak on a gasoline tank it falls on the ground and can burn. If somebody put fire to fuel it will burn no matter if gasoline or hydrogen. Diesel is a bit more difficult but does burn really good when started.

If a hydrogen car burns it might explode and can be extinguished. If a battery in an EV car burn it is close to not possible to extinguish before there is no more power left and that can take a long time.

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-gm/8560077/

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-honda-gm/8557202/

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-car-market-study/8556738/

Maybe we can drive cars powered with a fuel that when it has been burned (giving power to the car) turns back to the source from where the fuel can be made. Yes, it is water.

Gasoline cannot be reused, neither can diesel and batteries are far worse, when they no longer are good, they turn into landfill.

[Les Lex 2018]

Great info, John.  To be able to comment on or carry on an intelligent conversation about fuel cell vehicles, I’ll need to open a separate file and gather a lot of fuel cell vs. Hybrid comparison information such as:

MSRP, availability, Weight, battery cost, insurance, Tax credits, fuel taxes, HP to Wt. ratio, fuel availability along the interstates, output efficiency charts at max and minimum altitude and temperatures, Zero-to-Sixty ratings.

Flexibility: The ole Toyota Hybrid Camry took Pikes Peak like it was a day at the beach in Fla.

How is you Hybrid running, by the way?

[Lexus-CT]

The CT is running great. No problems so far. Service and hybrid battery control yearly.

Difference between hybrid and hydrogen cars is that hybrids need fossil fuel and hydrogen need water made to hydrogen that goes back to water when used, so a loop that is not really damaging the planet.

Electricity to make the hydrogen from water can be taken from the eternal power of the tide as long as the moon circles around (if our stupid politicians can go that way instead of digging for minerals destroying the planet); windmills are great as long as they function, but when no longer good they are landfill just like batteries from electric cars, solar cells are made mostly in China from forced labour among them children and they do not last forever either, so more landfill.

[Les Lex 2018]

At $16 dollars per gallon of Hydrogen and 74 MPG, that is cost equivalent to 18.5 MPG when compared to a 42 MPG Hybrid at $4 dollars per gallon.

Which is 4.2 miles per dollar vs. 10.5 miles per dollar for the Hybrid.

Work is in progress to do recycling of Lithium battery components for re-use.  And new battery compositions are being invented to eliminate the need for Lithium Ion and Cobol technology.

The Hybrid is a good bridge to have while more realistic eV designs are made available to the public.

Right now, the eV is just a novelty or something that the rich folks can show off to prove they got the big bucks $$$.

 

[Lexus-CT]

This is from 2019 and efficiency of the technology is steadily increasing:

The cost of hydrogen: Platts launches Hydrogen Price Assessment – Ammonia Energy Association :

What does hydrogen really cost? Apparently, there’s now a good answer to this question. $0.7955 per kg. This is according to the new daily hydrogen price assessment launched yesterday by Platts. Price assessments like this are invaluable for thriving markets, supporting transparency and developing into the benchmarks and indexes that underpin investments, trade, and regulations.

Above is cost price and no company sell at cost price but price will come down. In 2020 hydrogen could be bought at around 6$ each kg. Though hydrogen has been known as fuel a long time, it is first lately (last 5 years) it has really been invested in.

 _______________________________________

The latest Mirai can drive a bit more than 70 miles on 1 kg hydrogen.

_______________________________________

Can EV car batteries be reuse?

2 different answers to the question and both have some good points:

Can electric car batteries be recycled? - Autoblog

Are Electric Car Batteries Recyclable? (treehugger.com)

_______________________________________

So far it is cheaper to buy new minerals than to recycle due to the very strong glue the cells are bonded with in order to survive the rough life in a car that not always drive on smooth roads. It is very energy consuming to get the minerals out and most is still landfill (kept in store).

One big problem is however that no matter how much material there is to make batteries from – it is limited. And EV car batteries last usually less than 10 years before range is no longer sufficient to the owners.

 _______________________________________

Toyota is not a stupid company and they are not really into making EV cars, whereas they are preparing a hydrogen race car for Le Mans 24 hour race.

    

[Lexus-CT]

I believe that the minerals needed to make the best available batteries (at this time) are doing much better it used for communication (laptops and smartphones) than for wasting them in EV cars.

Just to make 250000 normal EV size batteries more energy is needed (fuel) than being used yearly in the US for airplanes. These batteries do not last long and considering the amount of EV cars needed if we are to have no exhaust fumes like our not very bright politicians think we can get with EV cars, we need more batteries than possible to get out of the planet without destroying it completely making it not at all possible to live on.

If the EU and US shall get into a better start, we must find better places to put our votes (though none seems available right now).

Some Asian countries (China, Japan, Korea) are far ahead and they are creating jobs and finding ways to create fuel that we in the west are not even thinking about or have political will to find as all we care about is economic growth. That our politicians have so little interest in trying to keep the planet a place to live for our children is embarrassing. And we are to blame.

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/hydrogen-car-market-challenge/8560146/?awt_a=1jpsU&awt_l=IFzTR&awt_m=gclrSO6WO85DlsU 

[Les Lex 2018]

Thanks for picking out the error used in  the conversion factor for Kg to Gallons.

Darn that euro Metric system and Kg/Km.

Unfortunately, roughly 80 percent of the electricity to produced Hydrogen now comes from fossil fuel.  So there goes the clean air part of the plan.

Fuel Cell cars will be the rage in the future, but it woun't be anytime soon.  Not until cheap Natural gas becomes scarce and battery storage becomes economical..

[Lexus-CT]

1 hour ago, Les Lex 2018 said:

Unfortunately, roughly 80 percent of the electricity to produced Hydrogen now comes from fossil fuel.  So there goes the clean air part of the plan.

Fuel Cell cars will be the rage in the future, but it woun't be anytime soon.  Not until cheap Natural gas becomes scarce and battery storage becomes economical..

As long as our politicians cannot find out to point in the direction of turning the gigantic powers of the eternal tide into electricity; clean energy to make hydrogen or to charge electric cars will be anything but not helping the planet. In Germany more than 50% of energy that make electricity come from coal.

In California fuel cell cars could be not that far away.

[Lexus-CT]

1 hour ago, Les Lex 2018 said:

Thanks for picking out the error used in  the conversion factor for Kg to Gallons.

Darn that euro Metric system and Kg/Km.

1 gal (UK)   =   1.2009499255 gal (US) Easy to understand??? Not?

In the UK, a pint is 20 fluid ounces, or about 568ml. How much is a gallon? In the US, a gallon is 8 pints, 128 fluid ounces or about 3.8 litres. In the UK, a gallon is 8 pints, 160 fluid ounces, or about 4.5 litres. These differences can lead to quite a few problems when it comes to comparing quantities or prices per gallon in different countries! That make sense??? Not?

The present international mile is usually what is understood by the unqualified term mile. When this distance needs to be distinguished from the nautical mile, the international mile may also be described as a land mile or statute mile. UK vs. US???

Speaking about miles it is a little bit more complicated. A UK mile is different to a US Mile which is different to a Swedish mile. While the Swedish mile makes a bit of sense, the 2 others do not. And then there is the nautical mile. But to speak about the one that makes sense:

When you can see the flash of lightning, it will be a while before you hear the crash of the lightning. The longer time passes, the further away the thunderstorm is. Every second you can count means the sound is the number of miles away that you count seconds. Here we are talking about Swedish miles. A Swedish mile is 10km.

Is it easy to understand that people worldwide have difficulties understanding fuel economy?

 

[Les Lex 2018]

Your explanation of conversion factors was so good, I.copied it to my "Conversions" help file, if you don't mind.

[Lexus-CT]

1 hour ago, Les Lex 2018 said:

Your explanation of conversion factors was so good, I.copied it to my "Conversions" help file, if you don't mind.

No problem Les. I do not even remember from where I have copied it.

One more thing that make fuel economy hard to understand when reading from other countries is the different kind of money we have. The old UK system with pounds, farthings etc. was so complicated that nobody today would be able to understand how that was.

[Les Lex 2018]

Bottom line: Owning an eV or Fuel Cell will not pay for the added investment.

Neither will the Hybrid, unless you get one on the west coast where gas in 5 plus USD a gallon. There is no incentive to buy a Hybrid, unless you believe that someone will slash your tires if you don't.

So there is an old saying that I made up:

[ If you can't dance around with the car your want, love the one that "brung ya" ].

[Lexus-CT]

23 minutes ago, Les Lex 2018 said:

Bottom line: Owning an eV or Fuel Cell will not pay for the added investment.

Neither will the Hybrid, unless you get one on the west coast where gas in 5 plus USD a gallon. There is no incentive to buy a Hybrid, unless you believe that someone will slash your tires if you don't.

So there is an old saying that I made up:

[ If you can't dance around with the car your want, love the one that "brung ya" ].

Not sure I understand what you write, but love is for family and friends, not things that can be bought. In my opinion.

Have had many cars and really liked about 10 of them for various reasons. 3 from Honda, 1 Lancia Rally, 2 MB, 2 Nissan, 2 Toyota MR2 and the CT is not bad either. Right now, it is sufficient. In not too many years from now the CT probably will be pensioned and a new bought and with all the progress in future fuels I believe that H2 is one that may be the best and easiest affordable and least polluting option.