Car wont start '98 LS 400

[M.Yasir]

Hello everyone

Unfortunately yesterday my car gave up on me in a bizarre way

I woke up in the morning for office, start the car left for idle for 5 mins then left to office, then started again and went for lunch everything was nice and smooth and you know the regular untill i came back after lunch, put the keys and when cranked, NOTHING, pure silence! tried again and nothing all peace..

Opened up the bonnet tried to check the battery and checked the terminal everything looked good, tried turning the keys again still nothing, the started motor just died no crank just silence, while turning the key i can hear tick tick sound in the engine bay...

While trying, in between starter motor came to life and cranked but engine did not fired up, i tried again then again it went into silent mode, i gave up (was getting late for office too)

Luckily in the area where the car broke down there were lots of auto garages, i went upto one of those, i tried explaining to him that may be the battery died so took one of the portable battery to jump start the car, we went to my lexus but still no luck, I called up a recovery truck then went to their garage..

In the garage they diagnosed and told that the starter motor is not accessible straight away, they need to open up the manifold on the top to see why the started is not turning up, i argued that its not about the motor there is some electrical fault, i told that please try to pull up the ODB codes since engine check light was lit, they did and what their computer was showing was all the history codes and one was that fuel to air ratio was not good...

The pic attached is when the car came inside the garage, i will go today in my lunch break with more pics of the engine bay

Please help here

[M.Yasir]

Update:

Mechanic here told me that I should replace the following parts in order to proceed and see the results

1.) Starter motor

2.) Starter motor relay

3.) Intake manifold packing

4.) Battery

Some pics

[Exhaustgases]

Lots of work for a possible security system problem. I don't know the newer than Gen 1 stuff that well. And wow they sure didn't improve getting the starter out in the newer cars same old stuff in the way at the fire wall.

[M.Yasir]

security system problem? yeah i searched around and many people did reported that the security system somehow malfunctioned and immobilized the engine, but here in my case i think i dont have engine immobilizer, i dont have a remote/ buttons on the keys to lock unlock doors/ trigger alarm

However whenever the car is locked and i open the trunk using the keys from outside the alarm goes off, does this mean that i should have a remote also to lock unlock doors, how I can identify this that how many functions are there in my security system?

[Exhaustgases]

On a gen 1 the security system will make the starter not work. And is fixed by just locking the doors with the key and then unlocking. It happened to a friend one time and she thought the starter went out. No alarms or nothing, just no starter. A starter will give you a month or more warning.

[M.Yasir]

Update:

I managed to get a used started motor from a salvage yard for about 55$, so lets hope this fixes the problem as my previous started motor was almost jammed if not completely, so the mechanic was saying it is rotating but not enough power to fire up the engine regardless i did not have even the starter running up

Now the garage people will connect the starter directly which will i think bypass the security system and will try to crank up the engine lets hope

On the other hand Bob and as you advised regarding the security system, I asked the technician in the garage he told that if engine immobilizer was working there would be no sound in the engine bay while turning the ignition key, lets hope he is right, the problem is i dont have the remote from which i can lock unlock

some more pics, last pic is of my old starter motor

 

[sha4000]

You do have an engine immobilizer in your car. You should also have a  key that has the immobilizer chip in it. Without the chip the car will not start. Sorry to ask but are you absolutely sure your key has no chip? 

[M.Yasir]

10 minutes ago, sha4000 said:

You do have an engine immobilizer in hit car. You should also have a teenie in your key that has the immobilizer chip in it. Without the chip the car will not start. Sorry to ask but are you absolutely sure your key has no chip? 

I have almost the same key which i have attached in the pic as a sample, so from the key how can i know that there is something inside... what is a teenie?

[sha4000]

I meant to say a chip in your key. Do you have a pic of the other side of the key? I have a 3 button key with lock, unlock and an alarm. Your key looks like it might be a valet key. Can you open the glove box with that key? 

[Exhaustgases]

The mechanic does not know the difference between an immobilized starter solenoid and the other active solenoids under the hood, there are lots of them. Just look in the solenoid and fuse box, there is one for efi, fuel pump etc. the immobilizer is just for the starter and nothing else. So yes there will be sound under the hood if its working.

And number 2 you just proved what an idiot (sorry) you have doing the work on that car, I hope he is working for free, because a used starter install is just plane stupid.

Where the bearings changed or checked in it? Where the brushes changed or checked? How about the solenoid contactor ?  55 bucks ?   for 100 you would have a rebuilt one. That whole project is a total waste of time and money. You could have got a better deal at a lexus dealer shop.

[landar]

I am late to the game but will 'play'. It could be an immobilizer but from what I could glean from your first post, it sounds like the solenoid contacts or other bad contact. Personally, I would have run more tests before taking out the starter but it is done so no sense in second guessing now. 

Because the starter replacement is so labor intensive, I would have advised that the starter be a rebuilt or get it rebuilt. Often times, you need only replace the solenoid contacts and you are good. 

I guess the mechanic will know soon enough if it will crank. Keep us posted. 

[M.Yasir]

15 hours ago, sha4000 said:

I meant to say a chip in your key. Do you have a pic of the other side of the key? I have a 3 button key with lock, unlock and an alarm. Your key looks like it might be a valet key. Can you open the glove box with that key? 

other side of the key I have no buttons, valet key? yes you may be right on this... opening the glove box? i will confirm in my lunch break when i will visit the garage

 

10 hours ago, Exhaustgases said:

The mechanic does not know the difference between an immobilized starter solenoid and the other active solenoids under the hood, there are lots of them. Just look in the solenoid and fuse box, there is one for efi, fuel pump etc. the immobilizer is just for the starter and nothing else. So yes there will be sound under the hood if its working.

And number 2 you just proved what an idiot (sorry) you have doing the work on that car, I hope he is working for free, because a used starter install is just plane stupid.

Where the bearings changed or checked in it? Where the brushes changed or checked? How about the solenoid contactor ?  55 bucks ?   for 100 you would have a rebuilt one. That whole project is a total waste of time and money. You could have got a better deal at a lexus dealer shop.

Before buying the started I checked by connecting directly with the battery, it sounded smooth unlike my old started which sounded horrible and also the rotating shaft of the motor was hard

Regarding the mechanic being idiot, well there is nothing else I can do in this, here in UAE the attitude of these people is stupid, they wont listen, it is a just replace attitude here, no body will check just replace, I am being optimistic here since i have to get things done from these guys no other option, Labor charge for this job they are taking 125$

Lexus dealer quoted me 385$ for a new starter motor so i stepped back and purchased a used one

7 hours ago, landar said:

I am late to the game but will 'play'. It could be an immobilizer but from what I could glean from your first post, it sounds like the solenoid contacts or other bad contact. Personally, I would have run more tests before taking out the starter but it is done so no sense in second guessing now. 

Because the starter replacement is so labor intensive, I would have advised that the starter be a rebuilt or get it rebuilt. Often times, you need only replace the solenoid contacts and you are good. 

I guess the mechanic will know soon enough if it will crank. Keep us posted. 

Run more tests, unfortunately here attitude is very bad, if car not starting and motor is not cranking up replace the starter motor, no body checks a thing

On the other hand and keeping in mind i dont have the remote from which i can lock unlock the doors, i was planning to go to a car key shop, may be he can give me a duplicate remote, will this work?

[Exhaustgases]

Wow $125 is almost doing if for free, and that really proves they are idiots. Yeah I'm trying to be funny. I guess you are in some other country because no one here would do that job for that price. Still the starter that's going in should have been looked at real good to make sure its going to last.

Usually if the solenoid contacts are getting bad you can still rapidly flick the key to start and back and have it catch or more appropriately make contact and start. Also you will hear the solenoid clicking just no starter motor running.

[M.Yasir]

Update :

The car is back to life! fires up perfect..... also no engine check light, it means so far so good

Looks like a good job done, some pics

 

[sha4000]

Gad you got it worked out. Was the price in US dollars or another currency?

This is the key you have which is a valet key.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEXUS-OEM-FACTORY-BLANK-SUB-KEY-1998-2000-LS400-/231784797782?fits=Year%3A1998%7CMake%3ALexus%7CModel%3ALS400&hash=item35f7735656:g:Q5UAAOSw8d9UtVRq&vxp=mtr

This is the key you need and pay special attention to the FCC ID number.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Keyless-Entry-Key-Fob-Remote-For-a-1998-Lexus-LS400-3BTN-Trunk-Short-Blade-/151916158258?fits=Year%3A1998%7CMake%3ALexus%7CModel%3ALS400&hash=item235ee89d32:g:EigAAOSwnipWbu8c&vxp=mtr

[M.Yasir]

2 hours ago, sha4000 said:

Gad you got it worked out. Was the price in US dollars or another currency?

This is the key you have which is a valet key.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEXUS-OEM-FACTORY-BLANK-SUB-KEY-1998-2000-LS400-/231784797782?fits=Year%3A1998%7CMake%3ALexus%7CModel%3ALS400&hash=item35f7735656:g:Q5UAAOSw8d9UtVRq&vxp=mtr

This is the key you need and pay special attention to the FCC ID number.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Keyless-Entry-Key-Fob-Remote-For-a-1998-Lexus-LS400-3BTN-Trunk-Short-Blade-/151916158258?fits=Year%3A1998%7CMake%3ALexus%7CModel%3ALS400&hash=item235ee89d32:g:EigAAOSwnipWbu8c&vxp=mtr

Currency in United Arab Emirates is Dirhams, 1$= 3.6 dirhams this currency difference is fixed between UAE and US

So i paid in total 500 dirhams + 200 dirhams for starter motor total = 700 dirhams which amounts to 194$

Yes you are right I have the valet key, i tried opening the glove box but it wont budge, thanks so much for the links

[sha4000]

Your welcome, you will probably have to go to a dealer to program a key since you don't have a master key already. Here are the program instructions anyway though.

Lexus key programming.txt

[billydpowell]

I ordered a new 3 button key from ebay with buttons.. had the dealer cut it and "flash" it and it works. also had a back up key cut, starts the car, locks and unlocks (manually) the doors and I have no problems

[M.Yasir]

Thanks Billy for the info, it really helps, but i just wonder how much would the dealer would charge me for flashing the key....

[billydpowell]

mine was 120$ for the master..  second key was a hardware store cut for free. 

[M.Yasir]

Hi guys

unfortunately i ran into the same problem again, no cranking just the cult classic single click sound

i dont know what do now wife is saying sell the car once its fixed

i am surprised that last night it was running perfect and this morning single click sound my goodness what a surprise

i do notice one thing though that besides the CEL light the ABS light stays on and the moment i saw it i knew something was wrong and bang single click sound

i am upset please help

i do ran OBDII code reader but it is showing O2 sensor, insufficient coolant sensor, shift solenoid C, trans solenoid A

[M.Yasir]

Hi Guys

Car is back up online and firing up just perfect

This time i tried to take a jump cable from another car and that did the trick, i then purchased a new battery 80 Ampere L type (positive terminal on the left hand side) and car cranking and firing up like a dragon

Attached is the OBD code screenshot which i tried to pull when the car was not starting, maybe my code reader is not capable of giving me the proper codes?

I believe the only way to find out that whether your battery died on you or not is to look for the ABS light, if it stays on then time to bring a new battery, but relying on the ABS light might not be the proper way to check/identify the battery problem

[Micah.Berry]

Did you happen to notice slow cranking of the starter motor when turning the key?  That is an indication of a weak battery.  My experience has been once a battery is unable to turn the starter, there are lots of clicks.  I suppose it could occur just as your experience has indicated too.

Did you ever get the master key from the dealer?

Keep us posted.

[vissine]

I think a bunch of codes when engine does not run does not mean anything. Any code when the engine runs would help. Your case maybe just a battery or charging circuit problem.

[M.Yasir]

Hi Micah

Thanks for your response, i believe LS doesn't allows slow cranking, it will just go blank without giving any signs of warning unlike older mechanical cars in which it will try to crank slowly if the battery is weak

Master key- unfortunately not, i still use the valet key,

The only thing i noticed that the ABS light was glowing till the end and then when you crank no breathing at all, on the other hand the moment i connected the jump cables with another car just to test ABS light went off

This is just my assumption

Hi Vissine

If the car is not cranking up then it should give proper codes otherwise it will turn the game into guess work which is very dangerous, from what i have researched it all depends on the capability of the code reader both the hardware and the software