Q45 Vs Ls400

[99lsguy]

Hey guys,

I mentioned this on one post and "mapman" graciously gave his opinion...

I thought a separate post would get more action :D

A neighbor of mine has a mid 90's Q45 for at least 6 years now so I was wondering about pros/cons compared to the LS.

This can be any year; New/used; how do they stack up?

I looked at the Q because they were considerable cheaper and Depreciate more heavily than the LS = making it a pretty good buy, I thought.

The biggest downer for me was the extremely poor interior space (no legroom) until they upgraded the Q45 around 2001 or so. Now, I imagine its a formible competitor to the LS?

The engine has always had more HP, Torque. How's the tranny, the ride, etc...

Thanks fellas...

99

[monarch]

.

The Q45 provides more power and sportier handling than the LS400 at the expense of a more nervous and jittery ride and substantially worse fuel economy. Interiors of Nissans / Infiniti's look

and feel cheaper than Toyotas / Lexus's. Reliability is a notch worse than Lexus, but superior to the European and American luxury cars. In general, the less richly appointed interior and less isolated ride of the Q45 make for a combination that makes the car feel cruder and less refined than the LS400. So a doctor looking for a relaxing drive home after a long day in the office won't like a Q45 as much as a LS400.

On the other hand, a Type A, high strung business executive who has a strong desire to keep up with BMW's will favor the power and better cornering of the Q45 over the refinement of the LS400.

[SW03ES]

Actually Infinitis are slightly more reliable than Lexus' based on the latest dependability studies. Infiniti is #1 in both 3 year and 5 year dependability and Lexus is #2. That place is only reversed in initial quality where Lexus is #1 and Infiniti is #2.

The Q45 really doesn't compare to the LS. Its nowhere near as well engineered and its built to a budget, which the LS is not. I drove a lot of Q45s both used and new and compared them to LS400s and LS430s and the two cars really are completely different.

[mapman]

I agree , the interior refinement of the Ls is superior. The materials used in the ls seem to be of a higher grade than the Q. I saw my old Q45 a couple weeks ago and the seats looked as if someone had used a boxcutter on them. They were all to pieces. I sold to a older lady in town so i know it hasn't been mistreated.

[dole2000]

Nissan always gives you a little more power for the money. Nissan has never been a company to go overboard on finishing and interior. Actually Lexus is quite nice but not up there with Mercedes or Audi. Toyota has the reputation of reliablity, but Nissan is very reliable. I have noticed the Toyota is easier to work on out ie... laid out better. So really is is 6 of one half dozen of the other. I know that a lot of Lexus owners get bent out of shape with a style complex. I have owned both cars. bought both used. both are great cars. Better and easier to maintain than a Euro car.

Bob

[SRK]

Do us a favour and don't mention Audi again on this board. Audi will never build a car with the reliability of Lexus. They have never known how, and never will. EVERY Audi mechanic knows what the inside of the Audi V-6 looks like cause they all blow head gaskets. Transaxles destroy themselves. Audi's blow big parts all over the road, and the little ones too. Lexus doesn't. Biggest pile of crap out of Germany since the DKW, which of course they bought. Along with three other crappy German manufacturers. And this is my gentle opinion.

I am sure the Germans invented the Audi as payback for the Allied victory in the Battle of the Bulge in '44-'45.

[93LSOwner]

Would the Acura 3.5 RL be comparable to the Q45 or LS?

"Price is also another aspect you have to consider when comparing cars"

[dole2000]

the Accura 3.5 is more in the group like the ES300, Nissan Maxima, Avalon and the new 35 series Infiniti. All are nice cars but have v6 engines. So without a V8 just not a luxury car.

[93LSOwner]

the Accura 3.5 is more in the group like the ES300, Nissan Maxima, Avalon and the new 35 series Infiniti.  All are nice cars but have v6 engines.  So without a V8 just not a luxury car.

From all due respect all of the cars you have mentioned are very nice and well built but I don’t think they have “nothin’” on the Acura. Edmunds stress this point but read the last sentence of the article in the below link.

My Webpagehttp://www.edmunds.com/used/1998/acura/rl/18354/review.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..12.Acura*

Just a little story that I would like to share with everyone, I know nobody meant to harm Honda’s name:

When I was in process of my car search, I went to Vann York Toyota; heck I’ll even tell you where they are located at (South Main Street, High Point, NC). This was my second visit, he called us and told us their was car that we might be interested in (very nice of him, but guess what they work on commission). It was a white Toyota Camry 1999 LE 4dr with 47,000miles $9,999. I spotted another car I liked on the lot, sliver Honda Accord 1999 LX 99,000miles $9,900. So, I started to talk to him about why the Accord is priced so high (know a thing or two about influencing someone to buy something and selling warranties since I worked at a well know retail department store) even though its book value is lower, and at the end of the conversion he said, “like you said it is an Honda Accord.”

Before you come to any conclusions prior to this, 4 years ago we bought a 1996Toyota Camry with 47,000 miles for $11k over an scratched up 1996 Honda Accord with 86,000 and same price. Both cars were at the same dealer, not a small local dealer neither.

So, how Accord is valued more than Camry, same goes for LS over RL even though the LS cost $7-10k more than the RL.

[SW03ES]

SRK- Thats not fair at all. All viewpoints and opinions are welcome here, as are aficionados of all different types of vehicles. I agree with you (as do the facts) that Audis are nowhere near as reliable as Lexuses, but that wasn't the point of his statement, he was simply comparing the interiors. You can debate him all you want on his views (and I will) but please don't tell him what he can and can not speak about on this board as he's welcome to speak about whatever he wishes.

That said, I don't see how a Lexus interior is nowhere near as nice as a Mercedes or Audi. I personally find Mercedes interiors cheap, cold, and hard (unless you're talking about a $130,000 S600) I sat in several the other day as we were car shopping for my fiancee. Even she commented on how the interior on my entry level Lexus is better put together and uses richer looking materials than a $65,000 E500. I agree with her, I find nothing attractive or appealing about a Mercedes interior, in fact they're enough to make me not even consider the cars. This has been a hot point in all comparisons that pit a Lexus against a Mercedes. IMO Mercedes is probably the most overrated car on the road. I see no appeal in them whatsoever. In a BMW you have the excellent road manners, but a Benz is just a hood ornament for 30% more than the competition. Not for me. That may not have been the case once, but it is now. To make the S Class for instance compare to a loaded LS430 in feature content you have to lay almost $110,000 down on an S500 designo edition. An Ultra Luxury LS430 costs 70k, rides better, quieter, quicker, more modern, better interior, and much more reliable. No brainer there, what does that $40,000 buy you? A hood ornament. If the Lexus ride isn't for you (some people like sport and the LS has none) then get an A8 or something, but the Mercedes is a waste of money. Or buy an LS and spend that $40k on a sports car.

Now an Audi is another animal. Audi makes a BEAUTIFUL interior. Again, I wouldnt say its a "better" interior than a Lexus but its different. Audi interiors have more glitz and more flare. Very well made, great materials and great design. With Audi vs Lexus interiors its really what you like as opposed to a question of quality but a question of style. The Lexus is more practical, understated, and luxurious. But the Audi is glitzier, sportier, and more flamboyant. SRK is right though, Audi reliability is dismal at best.

As for the RL, I looked at the RL vs my ES300 and chose my ES300. The RL is nice, its just outdated and doesn't have the attention to detail, resale value, or brand recognition of the ES. The RL is definately better suited as competition for the ES and doesn't hold a candle to the LS. A Maxima or an Avalon no, those cars are nothing like the RL, the ES, or the G35, but the ES and the G35 are definately comparable to the Acura. The RL has some of the lowest sales in the industry (right ahead of the Q45 which is the lowest selling luxury car on the market) and resale for both is TERRIBLE. Good for the used car buyer though!

[99lsguy]

I agree with the RL vs LS400 with SWO....not close. The LS is just too much car!

The TL is only "fractionally" smaller, with better features and $10k Less. The Acura people admit the TL outsells the RL by 8 to 1 because of this.....

I looked at lots of cars, trying to see what was close to the LS. Test drove a 99 RL (in great shape) but it wasn't a LS by any stretch of the imagination.

The 99 RL was priced @ $21500, I got the 99 LS for $23500. Both had 50K miles so just out of "full Warranty coverage". I think I got the best deal :D

The depreciation "factor" had shrunk a $57K auto to within $2K of an $43K auto within four years....the only good thing about depreciation

99

[SRK]

To SW03ES and dole2000 if my comment seemed "over the top" my apologies. I intended it as a figurative statement, and not a literal one.

[UCF3]

I have to disagree with some of you guys. Audi has changed over the years. My girlfriend and her family owns several Audis for close to a decade, and they really have changed. RS6, S4, TT and S8 are one of the best cars I've driven (better than a Mercedes), and so far the reliability of them are going up. I think VW has improved the reliability of its upper line cars. Also, there is an Audi on C&Ds top ten list.

Remember, if it wasn't for Audi and Subaru, selling AWD cars in the US, our markets would be flooded with those beasts known as SUVs, not that it hasn't already. :chairshot:

My parents have owned both the LS and the Q45(Cima-AWD) and they loved both of them. True, interior and comfort-levels of the LS are very well put, but Nissan makes some of the best engines out there. They are reliable (G20-9years-no problems), and their latest models are one of the best, maybe not the new M35/45(too-old) and the new Q45(too-bulky). I love the new Gs and FX and even the Is. They are very well designed and well powered.

The RL shouldn't be compared to the LS or the Q. The RL is like a GS or the M, without a V8 Option. Plus Acura offers way-to-many FWDs. There's only so much one can do with a FWD.

[SW03ES]

UCF- My parents have an FX35 and they love it, its a very cool car. I think Infiniti is really coming out with some nice machines.

I agree with you about Audi, they're great cars. The reliability though still isn't there, thats apparent in all the latest dependability studies that place Audi near the bottom. One of the main pitfalls of an Audi is they require very expensive diagnostic equipment to service, more expensive then even BMW. No question I'd buy an Audi before a Mercedes, but not before a Lexus.

SRK- No problem, matter forgotten in my book ;)

[UCF3]

UCF- My parents have an FX35 and they love it, its a very cool car. I think Infiniti is really coming out with some nice machines.

I agree with you about Audi, they're great cars. The reliability though still isn't there, thats apparent in all the latest dependability studies that place Audi near the bottom. One of the main pitfalls of an Audi is they require very expensive diagnostic equipment to service, more expensive then even BMW. No question I'd buy an Audi before a Mercedes, but not before a Lexus.

SRK- No problem, matter forgotten in my book ;)

I guess you could say, time will tell. VW is trying to improve the reliability of the Audis. They have come up with the next-generation Auto-shifter, which is really nice.

oh, I know about the FX35. My neighbour leased one 6months ago, and every day he drive by, I'm still looking. Even the Ferrari doesn't turn me on like the FX35/45

Diagnostic tools are expensive for all high-end models. Hence the reason why I'm planning on getting the Lexus Diagnostic Reader than the Aftermarket or the Toyota ones. Can you image the thing costs $45k. Even our F-car tools were cheaper.

[93LSOwner]

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[SW03ES]

Just because a car is one of Car and Driver's 10 best doesn't speak anything about its quality or its reliability. The 10 Best is basically an award saying "We like this car!" thats really meaningless as its based completely on subjective findings like styling, road manners etc. Awards from sources like JD Power and Consumer Reports that carry the real weight because they're OBJECTIVE and are based on the experiences of real owners over the long term. Audi has NEVER won a quality award from any source, Lexus has won at least one category (usually more or all) since its inception in 1990.

Aside from the cars, owning an Audi is just nothing like owning a Lexus. The dealerships aren't nearly as nice, nor are the people, and the service isn't nearly as good. A lexus dealer is like a country club, not true for Audis.

Audi is a good car, but I wouldn't drive one. If one day I woke up yearning for sport I'd look towards a BMW, for luxury I'd look towards Lexus.

[dole2000]

I won't buy and Audi either. They always get good press in mags like C&D but those folks only drive them and don't have to pay to keep them running after the warranty has ended. I had a 500 SEL Mercedes at one time. As it got older it was costing about $500.00 a month to get it fixed. Was a gray market car and that really made it expensive.

Bob

[UCF3]

Lexus is a very reliable car, but they're are so expensive.

SW:

I wouldn't trust COnsumer Reports. They're the ones who said the Audi A4 was Consumers Report--Best Buy in 97. That's what peaked my interest back then.

Back in 93, I didn't like the attitude Lexus sales and Service had this attitude, like most of the Lex dealers over here have, arrogance! It me off. That's why I bought my Infiniti. Better customers service. Off Course this is my opinion, and doesn't necessary reflect other consumers.

JD Power and Associates I Trust, but I think I saw Audi in the 12th position for 92-94. Correct me if i'm wrong.

[SW03ES]

I've not noticed that at all, I find the vast majority of the dealers here extremely courteous and customer oriented, almost all the dealers here now are Elite of Lexus dealers. May not have been the case back then though, who knows. My experience with Lexus starts in 1998.

I don't find Infiniti has anywhere near the customer centered attitude of the Lexus dealers.

And in all actuality, Lexuses aren't that expensive at all when compared to the competition...

[lexusonthelake]

:) I think you guys just performed a Consumer Reports rating on all import luxury cars:)

Back to the original questions, I too have owned Infiniti's and although they are excellent cars, they do not compare to the LS400. Should we start selling lexus forum ratings????:):)

[SW03ES]

We should lol

"Now introducting the LOC Car Ratings Guide!

For times when you're just not interested in unbiased information!"