03 Ls430 Catastrophic Sludge Problem

[landar]

what are you using? ( dont much care for firefox)

I use a MacBook Pro running Safari.

[curiousB]

OP went MIA

[SW03ES]

This is why I do not buy leases or rental vehicles. I refuse. And as far as not changing oil on leases, MOST companies charge if you cannot provide proof of regular maintenance on turn in. I know the big 3 do anyway.

Its all about records...if its got records thats one thing...if it doesn't thats another.

[billydpowell]

I switched from IE8 to safari and your posts look normal, now if I can remember all my passwords....

hay, I dont have to remember them, I can use my IE8 for every thing but LOC, and use safari for it. neat. didnt know you could have 2 browsers.

[SW03ES]

Weird...

[Micah.Berry]

Thanks axlservice and Army of One for the additional clarification and explanation.

Micah

[amg280]

2

[SW03ES]

I see people on this bored get quite offended if one bad thing is said about their toyota/lexus. Sometimes i feel Im on a Honda civic board or a BMW M3 board. Really, lighten up. Im hear to learn and get advice, etc. I appreciate the constructive criticism but come on now, some things are just uncalled for. .

People get offended when posters such as you automatically assume that the vehicle is a piece of junk when it has never been maintained, and shift the blame away from where it belongs (on themselves or the previous owners).

I mean, you come in here asking if you have a case against Toyota/Lexus when your car is going on 8 years old with 100,000 miles and a 35,000 mile span in its oil change history with no history of engine sludging with that engine...ever, then you post this statement:

The sludge is so extensive its not worth my time or money to fix for a glorified avalon.

And you're surprised that people treated you a little rudely? Sorry you f'ed up and bought a car with a big gaping hole in its service history...its not the car's fault...or the manufacturer's fault...its the fault of the original lessee or owner who didn't give a !Removed! about it and its your fault for buying a poorly maintained car.

My only gripe with this engine, and i know in this case wouldnt have prevented this anyways, is the oil sump capacity. I just think Toyota should have gave it more than 4.8 qts. The inline 6 in my E320 takes 7.5, and the V8 in my E420 take close to 9.

Why? This is probably the most reliable engine ever built...we have a bunch of members here with them and over 300,000 miles without using one drop of oil. Why simply have it hold more oil than is necessary, meaninglessly increasing the consumption of oil and the cost of oil changes?

The lease theory is a viable one, however, if it has been getting regular oil changes after the fact, I would think this problem would have presented itself along time ago, with new oil loosening up the sludge, plugging the screen.

It can take a long time for these issues to pop up.

My mechanic owns his own shop specializing in Lexus, he was a Lexus master tech for 16 years. I asked him if he had ever seen the Lexus V8 sludged or heard about one sludging and he said absolutely not...

You got the raw end of the deal here and it sucks...but its not Lexus' fault.

[amg280]

2

[landar]

Wow, I guess I did get f'd. I feel so guilty for taking people for their word (or in this case, service records). Its been a real learning experience. Im glad I paid next to nothing for this car. I bought it for a winter rat for the harsh NY winters. Hopefully it will still be able to do that soon...

The way I look at it, if you bought an '03 LS430 for next to nothing, you did not get screwed. Despite the condition of the engine, it still runs, looks decent, drives straight and the engine can, perhaps, be salvaged. Not ideal but you may have gotten your money's worth. A wrecking yard will still give you next to nothing for it so this really is not a total loss situation.

[SW03ES]

Wow, I guess I did get f'd. I feel so guilty for taking people for their word (or in this case, service records).

Issue is...the service records you've got have a big gaping hole in them...its not a question of you being told one thing and not another...you've got the records and the issue is right there.

I don't think anybody really screwed you here. You say you paid next to nothing for it...and you got what you paid for.

[curiousB]

Actually I don't think you got "__"ed because this whole thread is exaggeration and embellishment. I don't believe 1/2 of what OP states.

One post you are an ex mechanic next post you are buying a car with little more than a cursory look over. One minute you're calling in an ex MB "expert" the next you say you'll swap engine yourself. One minute your saying you're 32 years old the next you say you’re driving MB for 20 years. Where you cutting car deals at the ripe old age of 12? I question whether those are even photos you took or just stock photos off the web. I guess April fools came a few months early. Except the fool is the OP.

[dcfish]

[SW03ES]

Actually I don't think you got "__"ed because this whole thread is exaggeration and embellishment. I don't believe 1/2 of what OP states.

One post you are an ex mechanic next post you are buying a car with little more than a cursory look over. One minute you're calling in an ex MB "expert" the next you say you'll swap engine yourself. One minute your saying you're 32 years old the next you say you’re driving MB for 20 years. Where you cutting car deals at the ripe old age of 12? I question whether those are even photos you took or just stock photos off the web. I guess April fools came a few months early. Except the fool is the OP.

All excellent observations...

[VBdenny]

I once bought a Mustang 289 with 59,000 miles. Obviously the oil had never been changed because the sludge in the engine looked just like this. Running dino oil for tens of thousands of miles just does them in. I also got the low oil pressure warning light coming on. I tried changing the oil and even dropped the pan and saw the oil pump screen was completely covered with the nasty stuff. Before long she started knocking and blew. I never use anything but synthetic oil now and I change it every 5,000 miles. A lot easier to prevent sludge than remove it.

[Zett123]

Hey Guys.

I just bought a mint condition LS430 (03) from a doctor friend. It has 93K on it. I changed the oil when I got it (castrol GTX 5W-30) and a napa gold filter. After about 2K miles, I get the dreaded low oil pressure warning. I checked the oil, its still at the full line on the dipstick, and golden in color like new. For fear it might not be an electrical glitch, I have it towed to my independent MB mechanic (VERY good mechanic). He drained the oil out, and pulled the oil pan off. The oil pump strainer was completely clogged solid with sludge. There was about 8 pounds or more sludge in the pan itself, and even sludge on the crankshaft and surrounding areas. He says in his whole career, he has never seen so much sludge in an engine, including diesels. After spending countless hours cleaning it, and countless bottles of carb cleaner, it was spotless, oil pump strainer, pan, splash guard, the works. We put a new filter on, and fill it with new oil. Ran quiet like a sewing machine, no weird noises, no warning lights, all is good. I get in the car to drive it home, and after about 5 minutes, I get the low oil pressure light again. It had already clogged the strainer. I took it right back, intermedietly shutting it off and letting whatever sludge hopefully drop back down to the pan and out of the pump intake. It worked for about 5 minutes. We look inside the oil filler cap with a special flashlight and all you can see is huge globbs of sludge. He said the cam covers got to come off and said the entire engine has to be cleaned and thats a BIG job. Regular oil changes have always been done on this car since it was a baby. I have most of the documentation. Basically, right now im stuck with a beautiful paper weight with brand new michelin tires and a fresh finish (had some touch up work done at the body shop for scratches, etc.)

What should I do? I doubt I will get anywhere with Lexus, but this is ridiculous. Has anyone else experienced this problem with the 4.3 V8 before? What is the best way to clean this engine? The pan obviously has to come off 2 more times again (after we clean the top cam area of the engine). Sea foam? Gasoline? Kerosene?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Andy

After reviewing the post for this oil/sludge problem, I deduce that you have two problems. The first is that the car in question has obviously been severely neglected. Probably, cheap or infrequent oil changes. I saw something similar on a friends 1977 Monte Carlo we took apart. Massive sludge in the valley with chunks of what looked like carbon rocks all over the place. This was due to few or no oil changes ( I knew the guy and maintenance history). The second problem is this, if the car has been this neglected and evident by your pictures..what about the rest of the car. You are looking for some horrible repairs in the future. I would dump it asap and count your loses, or you are going to have a money pit. I would run a quart of varsol with your oil changes for about 100 miles for about 4 or 5 changes.. looking at your present situation, you have nothing to lose. If you are going to keep it, check for a Jasper rebuilt engine, they are good and reliable.

On a personal note; I am a procrastinator at heart. I don't like to change my oil every 3,000 miles, more like 10k-15k. That is why I pay extra for synthetic oils, not blends. I do not drive my 2001 LS 430 hard and it has close to 130K on it. No problems except for strut links, Mark Levinson POC Stereo problems (amp and second blown woofer). Same with my 1997 Ford E-350 work van, 129K miles, no smoke no engine problems ever. With that said, I have owned 40 autos in the last 42 years. Since I owned my first car, none have ever smoked or had engine problems due to these infrequent oil changes.

jz

jz

[Jim_Chow]

Everytime I buy a used car (even certified lexus), I run 5K to 10K using Mobil 1 Delvac 5w40, as it (being a diesel engine oil) contains detergents that have been shown (from members on the 4wheeler boards) to dissolve varnish buildup in engine from using mineral-based engine oils. It's never been used on an engine so sludged up. I would clean up and maybe rebuild the valve train/oil pump, etc., then run a diesel oil for short 500 mi or so intervals and change repeatedly until the sludge deposits disappear.

[Zett123]

Hey Guys.

I just bought a mint condition LS430 (03) from a doctor friend. It has 93K on it. I changed the oil when I got it (castrol GTX 5W-30) and a napa gold filter. After about 2K miles, I get the dreaded low oil pressure warning. I checked the oil, its still at the full line on the dipstick, and golden in color like new. For fear it might not be an electrical glitch, I have it towed to my independent MB mechanic (VERY good mechanic). He drained the oil out, and pulled the oil pan off. The oil pump strainer was completely clogged solid with sludge. There was about 8 pounds or more sludge in the pan itself, and even sludge on the crankshaft and surrounding areas. He says in his whole career, he has never seen so much sludge in an engine, including diesels. After spending countless hours cleaning it, and countless bottles of carb cleaner, it was spotless, oil pump strainer, pan, splash guard, the works. We put a new filter on, and fill it with new oil. Ran quiet like a sewing machine, no weird noises, no warning lights, all is good. I get in the car to drive it home, and after about 5 minutes, I get the low oil pressure light again. It had already clogged the strainer. I took it right back, intermedietly shutting it off and letting whatever sludge hopefully drop back down to the pan and out of the pump intake. It worked for about 5 minutes. We look inside the oil filler cap with a special flashlight and all you can see is huge globbs of sludge. He said the cam covers got to come off and said the entire engine has to be cleaned and thats a BIG job. Regular oil changes have always been done on this car since it was a baby. I have most of the documentation. Basically, right now im stuck with a beautiful paper weight with brand new michelin tires and a fresh finish (had some touch up work done at the body shop for scratches, etc.)

What should I do? I doubt I will get anywhere with Lexus, but this is ridiculous. Has anyone else experienced this problem with the 4.3 V8 before? What is the best way to clean this engine? The pan obviously has to come off 2 more times again (after we clean the top cam area of the engine). Sea foam? Gasoline? Kerosene?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Andy

Don't know if this could be the problem, but your circumstance is very unusual. I was wondering if it could be a blown head gasket near the oil port forcing exhaust (although very slight) into the oil that drains off the heads into the pan. It wouldn't take much of this mixture to taint the oil. possible evidence of this would be noticeable fumes coming out of the oil fill while the engine is running. Just a thought.

Another problem could be the gaps in piston rings are all aligned and exhaust is forced through this gap into the oil pan area. This would account for a loss of compression on one cylinder. This actually happened on my E150 Ford van.

[amg280]

Actually I don't think you got "__"ed because this whole thread is exaggeration and embellishment. I don't believe 1/2 of what OP states.

One post you are an ex mechanic next post you are buying a car with little more than a cursory look over. One minute you're calling in an ex MB "expert" the next you say you'll swap engine yourself. One minute your saying you're 32 years old the next you say you’re driving MB for 20 years. Where you cutting car deals at the ripe old age of 12? I question whether those are even photos you took or just stock photos off the web. I guess April fools came a few months early. Except the fool is the OP.

All excellent observations...

All excellent observations indeed. Im just some fool that knows nothing. You guys should work in forensics. Its like your all in denial that your precious Toyota engines arent as bulletproof as one might think. I remember my grandfather getting the sludge letter for his 99 V6 Camry. Why? Maybe lack of engineering, or just too low a capacity. Most people changed the oil ontime yet still experienced the sludge. How do you explain that? It took them many years before they admitted it, following in the footsteps of there german counterparts (our cars are perfect). Afterall, that was the same engine used in the earlier ES's. What, did they have two lexus badges and the rest were Toyota, then charge 1.5x's the price? No manufacturer is perfect. But the owners admit it (seems to be a disconnect here). Theres currently a class action lawsuit again benz for defective balance shafts from 04-10 on all V6 and some V8 equipped cars. I still like them though. After all, they DID invent the car. The Jap's just copied. Dont get me wrong, they were good at it. Look at the gated shifters....

SW03ES, do you even know what the word embellishment means? Its morons like you that get in the way of serious mechanical questions. This forum is like a high school. A few winners, but a WHOLE lot of losers. Ofcourse you dont believe half of what I said. Your probably a typical lexus owner that doesnt like to get there hands dirty, and only will pump gas and takes it to the dealer to get ripped on an oil change. Proud day for you. And say the photos were off the web, its clear there from a 4.3 vvt Toyota engine. But you wouldnt know that, probably never opened your hood.

I guess whatever I do, I will still come out on top. One thing is for sure, I am not going to get any satisfaction here from all you self-absorbed twits. Yes there was some good advice out there, but it was clouded with idiots.

Thanks for nothing. Enjoy your Toyotas and the "Lexus" brand that was a marketing gimmick for the America's back in 88. Congrats. Oh and btw, even a lexus tech said a bad PCV could cause that engine to do that. Hmm the defect theory arrises once again. Dont get ur panties in a bunch though. I have better things to do that chat with egotistical ppl like yourselves. Enjoy your smug selves.

xoxox

[dcfish]

Actually I don't think you got "__"ed because this whole thread is exaggeration and embellishment. I don't believe 1/2 of what OP states.

One post you are an ex mechanic next post you are buying a car with little more than a cursory look over. One minute you're calling in an ex MB "expert" the next you say you'll swap engine yourself. One minute your saying you're 32 years old the next you say you're driving MB for 20 years. Where you cutting car deals at the ripe old age of 12? I question whether those are even photos you took or just stock photos off the web. I guess April fools came a few months early. Except the fool is the OP.

All excellent observations...

All excellent observations indeed. Im just some fool that knows nothing. You guys should work in forensics. Its like your all in denial that your precious Toyota engines arent as bulletproof as one might think. I remember my grandfather getting the sludge letter for his 99 V6 Camry. Why? Maybe lack of engineering, or just too low a capacity. Most people changed the oil ontime yet still experienced the sludge. How do you explain that? It took them many years before they admitted it, following in the footsteps of there german counterparts (our cars are perfect). Afterall, that was the same engine used in the earlier ES's. What, did they have two lexus badges and the rest were Toyota, then charge 1.5x's the price? No manufacturer is perfect. But the owners admit it (seems to be a disconnect here). Theres currently a class action lawsuit again benz for defective balance shafts from 04-10 on all V6 and some V8 equipped cars. I still like them though. After all, they DID invent the car. The Jap's just copied. Dont get me wrong, they were good at it. Look at the gated shifters....

SW03ES, do you even know what the word embellishment means? Its morons like you that get in the way of serious mechanical questions. This forum is like a high school. A few winners, but a WHOLE lot of losers. Ofcourse you dont believe half of what I said. Your probably a typical lexus owner that doesnt like to get there hands dirty, and only will pump gas and takes it to the dealer to get ripped on an oil change. Proud day for you. And say the photos were off the web, its clear there from a 4.3 vvt Toyota engine. But you wouldnt know that, probably never opened your hood.

I guess whatever I do, I will still come out on top. One thing is for sure, I am not going to get any satisfaction here from all you self-absorbed twits. Yes there was some good advice out there, but it was clouded with idiots.

Thanks for nothing. Enjoy your Toyotas and the "Lexus" brand that was a marketing gimmick for the America's back in 88. Congrats. Oh and btw, even a lexus tech said a bad PCV could cause that engine to do that. Hmm the defect theory arrises once again. Dont get ur panties in a bunch though. I have better things to do that chat with egotistical ppl like yourselves. Enjoy your smug selves.

xoxox

WOW, Santa p1ssed in someones Cheerios

[LEXIRX330]

Santa did more than P I S S in them. This is just uncalled for. Have fun cleaning the sludge out! :chairshot:

[AzHotLS]

Andy, I, for one, an embarrassed by the treatment you go here. Especially by Steve one of the Forum Admins. Regardless of what you said or implied, you didn't deserve the treatment you got here. I can see why you edited all your posts. I wish you well.

If, for sticking up for you, gets me booted off this forum, so be it.

[curiousB]

... Im just some fool that knows nothing. ...

...Its like your all in denial...

...SW03ES, do you even know what the word embellishment means?...

...Its morons like you...

...This forum is like a high school. A few winners, but a WHOLE lot of losers....

...Of course you dont believe half of what I said....

...Proud day for you....

...I guess whatever I do, I will still come out on top....

...I am not going to get any satisfaction here

...from all you self-absorbed twits....

...but it was clouded with idiots....

...Thanks for nothing...

..."Lexus" brand that was a marketing gimmick...

...Dont get ur panties in a bunch though....

...I have better things to do that chat with egotistical ppl like yourselves....

...Enjoy your smug selves....

xoxox

Your runaway diatribe only proves our point. Of course you offer no evidence to the contrary. Your meandering story was just that. A story.

My favorite was

..."After all, they (MB) DID invent the car. The Jap's just copied."...

Thats like saying the cell phone was just a copy of Alexander Graham Bell's first telephone. Absurd to the point of stupidity. And we're the twits?

Good bye.

[LEXIRX330]

Regular oil changes have always been done on this car since it was a baby.

This was my favorite!

[SW03ES]

What did I say? I never said I didn't believe you...in fact I 100% believe you, if the engine goes 35,000 miles without oil changes and is neglected...it can sludge. You're blaming BMW for a post I didn't even make.

You mention the 99 Camry, that's a completely different situation. That engine does have a sludging problem...the issue here is that you have an LS with the 4.3 liter V8. If you had a 99-01 ES we wouldn't be surprised, but you don't.

Like others have said, your childish tirade has shown us your true intentions though. Good luck with your car.

Thread closed.