90 Ls400 Timing Belt Question

[sebastor]

So i just got 1990 ls400 with 167,000 miles on it and it was involved in minor accident as i saw it on autocheck and also i see radiator was replaced and i saw o-ring replaced on receipt. I looked at engine sticker and didn't see timing belt change. I think i see on one of the receipts that water pump was replaced as well but i'm not 100% sure if it was or not.

Here is a question. At 167,000 miles would timing belt be replaced at least once at some point OR possibly had to be replaced after that accident.

I'm trying to determine if it was done at least once ??? Having hard time believing that it would run 167k without change???!!!

P.S

Engine runs like a honey. I mean i had 1991 lex with 230k and 1990 this is is so much sweeter. Radiator upgrade made the car heat up faster so after few minutes in winter it's warm in the car which is not the case with original radiator.

[oldskewel]

So i just got 1990 ls400 with 167,000 miles on it and it was involved in minor accident as i saw it on autocheck and also i see radiator was replaced and i saw o-ring replaced on receipt. I looked at engine sticker and didn't see timing belt change. I think i see on one of the receipts that water pump was replaced as well but i'm not 100% sure if it was or not.

Here is a question. At 167,000 miles would timing belt be replaced at least once at some point OR possibly had to be replaced after that accident.

I'm trying to determine if it was done at least once ??? Having hard time believing that it would run 167k without change???!!!

P.S

Engine runs like a honey. I mean i had 1991 lex with 230k and 1990 this is is so much sweeter. Radiator upgrade made the car heat up faster so after few minutes in winter it's warm in the car which is not the case with original radiator.

With a little luck, it probably could run 167k with no change.

If the water pump was replaced, it is almost guaranteed that the T-belt was changed at the same time. But too bad you don't know if all the other stuff (idler pulleys, tensioner, etc.) was changed.

You might try checking with a Lexus dealer. I think they can look up the VIN and tell you any service that was done by any Lexus dealers anywhere. But of course independents or DIY service will not be shown.

Good luck.

[eatingupblacktop]

So i just got 1990 ls400 with 167,000 miles on it and it was involved in minor accident as i saw it on autocheck and also i see radiator was replaced and i saw o-ring replaced on receipt. I looked at engine sticker and didn't see timing belt change. I think i see on one of the receipts that water pump was replaced as well but i'm not 100% sure if it was or not.

Here is a question. At 167,000 miles would timing belt be replaced at least once at some point OR possibly had to be replaced after that accident.

I'm trying to determine if it was done at least once ??? Having hard time believing that it would run 167k without change???!!!

P.S

Engine runs like a honey. I mean i had 1991 lex with 230k and 1990 this is is so much sweeter. Radiator upgrade made the car heat up faster so after few minutes in winter it's warm in the car which is not the case with original radiator.

So if you just got it, why not ask the person you bought it from?

[SLORICK]

Note: Wife's 02 LS430 was going into Dealer for 90K checkup & Timing Belt when I read about sticker usually placed near radiator saying Belt was done. I asked Dealer Service Tech if that would be done to my wife's car. Tech said usually only Indie's did that, and Dealers don't because Dealers enter the info into the Lexus Computer Database that can be seen by any other dealer or the owner (Register your VIN at Lexus.com to see/print your repair history).

[billydpowell]

on my old 94 LS, it ran 230K before it broke, (Ibought it broke) fixed it, sold it, and it is still going strong.

Note: Wife's 02 LS430 was going into Dealer for 90K checkup & Timing Belt when I read about sticker usually placed near radiator saying Belt was done. I asked Dealer Service Tech if that would be done to my wife's car. Tech said usually only Indie's did that, and Dealers don't because Dealers enter the info into the Lexus Computer Database that can be seen by any other dealer or the owner (Register your VIN at Lexus.com to see/print your repair history).

WRONG!!

just a crappy dealer, one of mine has been done twice at Lexus.. see the stickers.

after we changed my other one I ask the dealer for one of the stickers and they told me it only came with the belt.

246K today

[fiveofakind]

My 1992 LS400 now has 268k miles..........the last timing belt change with all other parts replaced was performed at 150k....the one & only time it was ever done......

Since I perform my own maintenence, I have not done this maint since I acquired the vehicle when it had 153k miles on it.....

The belts that the dealers use are of extreme high quality & will last a long, long time.......1992 LS400 is a non-interference engine so I wont replace the timing belt until it breaks.....& maybe then I will think just junking the car as it is approacking the 300k mark....

[SLORICK]

Wow, billydpowell, neat reply. A quote and attached thumb. I wanna post like you when I grow up.

Hey fiveofakind,

I thought the same way you did at first...

1992 LS400 is a non-interference engine so I wont replace the timing belt until it breaks.....

but then I thought... if/when belt breaks, engine dies, I loose power steering, and have to pull car to side of road immediately, or wife does, and on freeways, I risk causing an accident, and hurting my lexus, or me, or my wife or kids, or causing a chain reaction collision that hurts others on the public roadways... I thought of legal terms like "negligent homicide" or "involuntary manslaughter" and thought maybe a new timing belt (and serpintine drive belt) is worthwhile after all.

[billydpowell]

Wow, billydpowell, neat reply. A quote and attached thumb. I wanna post like you when I grow up.

Hey fiveofakind,

I thought the same way you did at first...

1992 LS400 is a non-interference engine so I wont replace the timing belt until it breaks.....

but then I thought... if/when belt breaks, engine dies, I loose power steering, and have to pull car to side of road immediately, or wife does, and on freeways, I risk causing an accident, and hurting my lexus, or me, or my wife or kids, or causing a chain reaction collision that hurts others on the public roadways... I thought of legal terms like "negligent homicide" or "involuntary manslaughter" and thought maybe a new timing belt (and serpintine drive belt) is worthwhile after all.

WELL!! if that wont light your fire, your wood is wet........

[fiveofakind]

Slorick,

Yes, I do agree with you that it may caused a severe accident with loss of power to vehicle if timing belt were to occur....possibilities of maiming others or myself or loss of life or whatever......total power loss could be catastrophic.

So maybe I will bite the bullet, & spend $470 on parts to have peace of mind for another 30k miles or so......who knows...may have this car until 400k miles are on it.....at least I can peace of mind doing the repair myself.....& not some shop hitting me up for $100 / hr......my factory shop manuals are well worth the money......

I must say however recently when I examined this belt it appeared in very good shape....hand crank the engine & looked at the belt......i did not see any fraying at all...

With the heat generated these belts do get brittle after some time & break......

Have you heard of anyone whose belt break & led to a catastrophic event.

I will re-consider......

[sebastor]

Ok guys so i went onto lexus site and registered a vin and got "service history"

Now i'm still somewhat confused as to me it's not clear if it was replaced or not.

As this is service history did dealer recommend/suggest to owner to replace that belt or was it actually replaced. Why was once used on present tense and one in past tense... HIGHLIGHTED BY BOLD TEXT.

Reason i question this as other work order is in past tense. Look at bolded text. I dont know how to read those reports but maybe you guys do.

Here is exact copy of lexus service history

Dealer Reported 10/19/1999 Woodfield Lexus 95542 0105225 REPLACE TIMING BELT,WATERPUMP, & FRONT CRANK SEAL.

Dealer Reported 10/19/1999 Woodfield Lexus 95542 0105225 REPLACE FRONT BRAKE PADS. R/R FRONT BRAKE ROTORS

Dealer Reported 10/19/1999 Woodfield Lexus 95542 0105225

Dealer Reported 10/19/1999 Woodfield Lexus 95542 0105225 MACHINE FRONT BRAKE ROTORS CLEAN

Dealer Reported 10/19/1999 Woodfield Lexus 95542 0105225 REPLACE POWERSTEERING PUMP

Dealer Reported 10/19/1999 Woodfield Lexus 95542 0105225 REPLACE STEERING RACK ASSY.

Dealer Reported 10/19/1999 Woodfield Lexus 95542 0105225 CAR WASH OTH

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CD CHANGER CUSTOMER STATE THAT TH

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 GAS LID CUSTOMER STATES THAT THE

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACED SEAT HEATER BULBS

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 48 MONTHS OR 60,000 MILES

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CHANGE OIL AND FILTER

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 INSTALL KREX GRAPHITE LUBRICANT

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACE AIR FILTER

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 FLUSH COOLING SYSTEM

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CHANGE BRAKE FLUID

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 ADD FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CLEAN THROTTLE BODY

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CHECK ALL LITES AND INSTRUMENTS,LUBE DOOR HINGES AND ANTENNA

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 INSPECT FUEL LINES & CONNECTIONS

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACE FUEL TANK CAP GASKET

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 INSPECT EXHAUST SYSTEM AND CHECK ALL CHASSIS AND BODY BOLTS

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 INSPECT BRAKE PADS/DISCS

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CHECK STEERING LINKAGES

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACE FUEL FILTER

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 INSPECT RACK & PINION ASSEMBLY FOR LEAKAGE

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 INSPECT BALL JOINTS/DUST COVERS/CV BOOTS(RE-TORQUE FLANGE BOLTS)

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CHANGE TRANSMISSION FLUID

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 CHANGE DIFFERENTIAL FLUID

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 INSPECT BODY/CHASSIS NUTS/BOLTS

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACE SPARK PLUGS

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 ROTATE TIRES & CHECK PRESSURE

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACE WIPER INSERTS

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACE A/C FILTER (LS400/GS400/GS300) ADD $150.00/INITIAL _____

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPACK FRT WHEEL BEARINGS-LX450 ADD $246.00//INITIAL ______

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 ROAD TEST ***********************

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACED CLEARANCE BULB

Dealer Reported 10/30/1998 Lexus of Naperville 94380 0069114 REPLACED LICENSE PLATE BULB

[billydpowell]

Slorick,

Yes, I do agree with you that it may caused a severe accident with loss of power to vehicle if timing belt were to occur....possibilities of maiming others or myself or loss of life or whatever......total power loss could be catastrophic.

So maybe I will bite the bullet, & spend $470 on parts to have peace of mind for another 30k miles or so......who knows...may have this car until 400k miles are on it.....at least I can peace of mind doing the repair myself.....& not some shop hitting me up for $100 / hr......my factory shop manuals are well worth the money......

I must say however recently when I examined this belt it appeared in very good shape....hand crank the engine & looked at the belt......i did not see any fraying at all...

With the heat generated these belts do get brittle after some time & break......

Have you heard of anyone whose belt break & led to a catastrophic event.

I will re-consider......

So maybe I will bite the bullet, & spend $470 on parts

you can if you want to, I didnt,

my parts came from:

http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/page247.html

everything fit perfect, and the car runs fantastic.

[SLORICK]

Hey billydpowell, thanks for the neat parts link, you old dinosaur (hehehe)

Hey sebastor, I would read that history as all that having been done. Methinks present tense is when work order is started, and assume it is completed, while past tense is used if work is found during inspections and added on when bill is totaled, or added by different tech who uses past tense. So that was 10 years ago, how many miles ago?

Hey fiveofakind, didnt mean to light your fire. Just read lots of posts on LOC about timing belts and also on Club Lexus, as I had dealer do Timing Belt in Feb. You are different, do your own work, so you're the expert. Others were newbies, just learned about need for timing belt and water pump every 90K/72months, didnt seem to have maintenence manuals like you and me to see what was involved in the job, and some just bought old lexus for $3K and first time with "luxury" car and prices. I never saw mention of "The Bigger Picture" and they seemed to be "Penny Wise but Pound Foolish", so that's why I posted what I did. For others to read and consider. Why junk car at 300K? Your classic is supposed to be bullet-proof. Hand it down to younger generation? Let THEM learn about DIY and Junkyards, etc.

[sebastor]

Slorick. Thank you. I asked few other and they think it was completed as well. I guess i will give them a call and ask anyway. Just to make sure.

But based on that order timing belt was done at 95542 and now i have 162k, so i'm good to go til at least 200k if not 250k.

One thing i noticed is either water pump or steering pump make louder then expected ball bearing noices coming from that area, although water

pump and steering pump was changed also. Weird. Better it will be steering pump not water pump. Thanks guys for your help. Any more input appreciated.

[SLORICK]

Sebastor, BEWARE, common problem with our series Lexus, besides burnt out clock LCD, is leaky PS pumps.

Problem is, it leaks onto Altenator below, harming it and it's a real expensive part. So, pay attention to PS leaks.

I have a leaky ps rack and pinion assy, so fluid drips onto ground (or bottom engine cover) but not altenator.

When fluid gets least bit low, my ps pump growls, and topping it off with a little more fluid makes growl go away.

Check your ps fluid level to see if it is full and if that might be causing your noise. If leak, then find out where the leak is to see if you can let it go or need to fix it ASAP. I also learned that ps pump has small hole in bottom, like many water pumps (other makes of cars, not lexus, i dont think) that signal when the seal is leaking. If you see/feel water coming out of pump weep hole, or ps fluid coming out of ps pump weep hole, then the seal is going bad, and you need to rebuild it yourself, buy a rebuilt or new pump before it damages your altenator. I gotta check mine, so will feel weep hole below main shaft to feel/see if any ps fluid is coming out. Google "ps pump weep hole" and see if you get photo.

[1990LS400]

Sebastor, BEWARE, common problem with our series Lexus, besides burnt out clock LCD, is leaky PS pumps.

Problem is, it leaks onto Altenator below, harming it and it's a real expensive part. So, pay attention to PS leaks.

Having been stranded when a leaking PS pump caused alternator failure on the 90 LS I used to have, I think an alternator guard is a good idea. The one in the attached photos is made out of a plastic bleach bottle -- I've seen prettier alternator guards but who cares what it looks like if it protects the alternator.

[curiousB]

Guys, be careful with these alternator shields. They can't restrict airflow or the alternator will overheat. Automotive alternators are less than 90% efficient. So assuming best case of 90% if they're putting out 700Watts that means they are also giving off 70 Watts of heat. That heat needs to be removed or the electronics in the alternator will fry (rectifier diodes in stator and voltage regulator.

I understand the motivation to keep PS fluid from brushes but be sure you aren't fixing one thing to create another. As a minimum make sure you don't block airflow in any opening or heat sink fins on the casing.

IMHO you’re better off to fix the leak than try to make a dam for it.

...."The efficiency of an alternator usually depends on its size and is very often affected because of problems in the bearings, not enough cooling by the fan or even copper and iron loss.

Most automotive alternators operate at around 55% efficiency. However, this conversion of mechanical energy in your car into electrical energy can be increased if you increase its range. Way back, the alternator only had to power the lights and a horn".......

[1990LS400]

Guys, be careful with these alternator shields. They can't restrict airflow or the alternator will overheat.

People have been using drip shields on gen 1 LS400 alternators for about two decades. Do you have documented evidence that these shields cause problems?

[sebastor]

Sebastor, BEWARE, common problem with our series Lexus, besides burnt out clock LCD, is leaky PS pumps.

Problem is, it leaks onto Altenator below, harming it and it's a real expensive part. So, pay attention to PS leaks.

Having been stranded when a leaking PS pump caused alternator failure on the 90 LS I used to have, I think an alternator guard is a good idea. The one in the attached photos is made out of a plastic bleach bottle -- I've seen prettier alternator guards but who cares what it looks like if it protects the alternator.

Wow. So maybe it's alternator that is making those noises....grrrrrrrr.....i didn't pay much for this car but i sure don't wanna crank up the bill either.

How can i tell what it is? I use to have P.S pump issues with my 91 ls but it never failed. I just use to add tranny fluid to it.

I just recently filed it up so i will check for noise but i didn't think it stopped.

How did this person mount that plastic onto alternator ?

[eatingupblacktop]

Guys, be careful with these alternator shields. They can't restrict airflow or the alternator will overheat. Automotive alternators are less than 90% efficient. So assuming best case of 90% if they're putting out 700Watts that means they are also giving off 70 Watts of heat. That heat needs to be removed or the electronics in the alternator will fry (rectifier diodes in stator and voltage regulator.

I understand the motivation to keep PS fluid from brushes but be sure you aren't fixing one thing to create another. As a minimum make sure you don't block airflow in any opening or heat sink fins on the casing.

IMHO you're better off to fix the leak than try to make a dam for it.

I think once you're in motion, the airflow wouldn't be a prob w the shield. Idling on the other hand might not provide enough with one on. As with the other electrical switches, sensors, relays, wiring, components, etc., I think most of the damage happens from heat soak once the engine has been turned off. Still, I prefer the practice of making repairs more permanent than temporary.

[curiousB]

Guys, be careful with these alternator shields. They can't restrict airflow or the alternator will overheat.

People have been using drip shields on gen 1 LS400 alternators for about two decades. Do you have documented evidence that these shields cause problems?

No I have the same amount of "documented evidence" as you do that they actually fix a problem and that they don't cause overheating. What is this the Spanish inquisition? I gave my fact based reasoning stemming from power dissipation and efficiencies. If you feel the vent holes in the alternator are unintentional and the blower fan is superfluous then by all means block the air flow.

Here’s an experiment put a 100W light bulb in a plastic bottle and come back an hour later and see what you have. I have no more to say.

[eatingupblacktop]

Wow. So maybe it's alternator that is making those noises....grrrrrrrr.....i didn't pay much for this car but i sure don't wanna crank up the bill either.

How can i tell what it is? I use to have P.S pump issues with my 91 ls but it never failed. I just use to add tranny fluid to it.

I just recently filed it up so i will check for noise but i didn't think it stopped.

Check for leaks from the reservoir and attached hoses. Check if the alt's wet. Do you get bluish smoke from the tailpipes on startup?

How did this person mount that plastic onto alternator ?

Here are some pix:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/LS/Alt1

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/gallery/LS/Alt2

[1990LS400]

No I have the same amount of "documented evidence" as you do that they actually fix a problem and that they don't cause overheating. What is this the Spanish inquisition? I gave my fact based reasoning stemming from power dissipation and efficiencies. If you feel the vent holes in the alternator are unintentional and the blower fan is superfluous then by all means block the air flow.

Here’s an experiment put a 100W light bulb in a plastic bottle and come back an hour later and see what you have. I have no more to say.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise...." -- Monty Python.

Of course it is better to fix the PS pump but the leaks can really sneak up on you. I had a number of new or rebuilt PS pumps on my 90 LS over the 13 1/2 years I drove it with one of the rebuilds lasting only a few months.

My point is that many people have reported failed alternators due to leaking gen 1 LS400 PS steering pumps on these forums but no one has reported an alternator damaged by a drip shield. We are talking reality here and not just scientific speculation.

Trust me, when you are 180 miles from the nearest Lexus dealer with your gen 1 LS400 PS pump leaking like a sieve -- like I once was -- you really want one of these guards protecting your alternator.

I've seen nicer alternator drip shields than the one in the photo I provided -- some people have made them so they stand off a bit from the alternator.

The Spanish Inquisition skit has to be my favorite.

[SLORICK]

Sebastor, I have a couple ideas:

1. Besides the Lexus Owners Club (LOC) there are a few other websites, like ClubLexus, Lexstacy, Lexsreme, etc. Type "1990 LS400 ps pump leak" or "noise" or "altenator noise" into GOOGLE and see what you get.

2. Act dumb, and take you car to lexus or toyota dealer, then one or two other mechanics, and just say " I'm getting a noise that doesnt seem right" and see what they diagnose for you.

3. I watched mechanic use stethoscope (like doctors use), with foot long metal probe, listen for "bearing noise" by putting probe on altenator housing or ps pump housing to hear. You could do same with length of garden hose, heater hose or vacuum hose, putting one end to your ear, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE REAL CAREFUL, because if you play this game with the engine running, you have a whirling fan blade and serpentine belt real close, and you could hurt yourself.

When the belt grabs the hose out of your hand and starts whipping it around, smacking you in the head, you could win $10,000 on America's Funniest Home Videos. Normal pumps humm, if bearings are going out, it sounds like a garbage disposal grinding things up. (actually touch the item, so you hear vibrations, like putting your skull against anothers while they chew or humm, it sounds different,,,see?) You dont have to touch near rotating shaft, just anywhere on the housing to pickup vibrations. Maybe garden hose inches away from ps pump, or closer to altenator would be enough to tell which one the weird noise is coming from.

[sebastor]

Thanks guys. You guys are great !!! Slorick i will take another listen and look. Yeasterday i added valvoline steering fluid with stop leak and today when came back from work popped the hood and listed to the area in question and didn't hear the bearings, but I will test it again just to be 100% sure. Fluid last night was little low so then i added it and still didn't make it quite last night but maybe it needed some time to quite down. Seems today i didn't notice it while i popped the hood. But will try again. I think i saw in history that pump was replaced. Will check that too. Not sure if i'll go and install that shield as that would mean i would have to take alternator out and that could cost me dearly. Good idea with that stethoscope. I saw mechanics also use metal screw driver touching it and putting their ear to it.

I just pray now that A/C works good on this cause i couldn't test it cause on my 91 compressor was out and i never fixed it due to costs. If a/c is fine i will then move to replacement of broken antenna and replacement of faulty LCD which i have too. I'm very good at soldering so with that tutorial i will be just fine. I use to soldier much smaller things that that CB. Should be interesting project to challenge myself on. Maybe will take before and after photos ;)....again many thanks to all !!!

[VBdenny]

You can buy one of the stethescopes from Sear for around $20. I have one and use it frequently to check noises people have in the engines. They are very sensitive and you will find it interesting to hear the sounds of the different parts. And yeah, you really have to pay attention when the engine is running. Before you go poking the probe in there I would carefully look over the engine compartment while it is off just to be sure you know where not to poke.