Timing Belt Pricing.......dealer Has A Special

[PilotguyPA28]

OK, I drive an '03 LS430 with 55,000 miles. My dealer has a special for $475. Is this a good price and should I consider it because my LS is 6 1/2 years old?

Thanks in advance!

PG

[landar]

OK, I drive an '03 LS430 with 55,000 miles. My dealer has a special for $475. Is this a good price and should I consider it because my LS is 6 1/2 years old?

Thanks in advance!

PG

For starters, you need to check into it in much more detail. This is way too low of a price for a T-belt replacement, especially from the dealer.

Usually, upon further investigation, it turns out that they meant the serpentine (accessory) belt. In which case, $475 is way too high.

[1990LS400]

OK, I drive an '03 LS430 with 55,000 miles. My dealer has a special for $475. Is this a good price and should I consider it because my LS is 6 1/2 years old?

Some dealers "low ball" the timing belt price by not including the cost of replacing the water pump, tensioner, idler and other related parts. Ask if the price includes the cost of parts and labor for replacing all the parts normally replaced during a timing belt service.

Whether to replace the timing belt at 55,000 miles is your call. I waited until my 00 LS400 hit 90,000 miles at almost exactly seven years from the car's in-service date -- one year more than recommended. The original timing belt looked good as new but I don't know about the other parts -- not sure if one could accurately assess their condition. It's not the timing belt that usually breaks ... it's usually some related part that fails and takes the timing belt with it.

When the timing belt "broke" on my 90 LS400 in the mid-1990s at about 75,000 miles, it was the water pump that failed and took the timing belt with it. The timing belt didn't actually "break" -- it was just damaged. The timing belt might have been in worse shape if I had been driving faster -- I was going maybe 35 mph a few blocks from my house. There was a strong smell of coolant and then "bang", the engine died. I had just enough speed to coast into a convenience store parking lot and even park in a normal parking space. The worst part was that it took hours for a tow trunk to arrive due to other motorists flagging him down in the ice storm we were having.

Of course, the early LS400 like my 90 LS didn't have an interference engine. I waited until 180,000 miles to have the timing belt and all related parts replaced a second time.

There ... I've told the story on this forum still again.

[RDM]

There is no possible way a dealer would touch a timing belt for $475. The belt alone is more than $75. I'd seriously verify what they mean and what they include in that. For that price they may just pull a timing cover off, cut the belt, then draw it out of the engine to show you. I'm nice to my customers and I charge $1000 for a timing belt job using aftermarket parts, you're easily looking at double that minimum at a dealer.

[curiousB]

I just asked my dealer about the dreaded 90K miles service. He's what they said:

1. 90 k service is $475 (basically an oil change, a lookiesee, and a brake fluid flush)
   
2. They recomend changing timing belt which is $675 more
   
3. I asked about if this included parts such as tensioner idler and so on. They said they check all of those and replace only if needed.
   

My take is they get you in at 475+675= $1150. They don't tell you but charge you extra for timing belt part. Another $80. Then they look at parts and water pump and see if they can make a case to pump up the balloon even larger. Play to your fears of well we've dismantled this far should really do these other things while we're in there....

Next thing you know you've writing a check for $2500 and wondering what the %$#@ happened.... Ouch.

[1990LS400]

Next thing you know you've writing a check for $2500 and wondering what the %$#@ happened.... Ouch.

I didn't mean to imply that one should just pull down his pants and bend over! Ouch is right! :o

If the most common cause of belt "failure" wasn't the failure of one of the related parts, I wouldn't have the related parts replaced either.

I checked the invoice and saw that about $250 of the $780 I paid for the timing belt service in 2007 was for all the related parts with the most expensive part being the $130 water pump. $250 seems like a "nit" when amortized over 90,000 miles -- especially since we aim to keep cars a long time and usually pass our used cars on to friends and relatives who appreciate getting cars in top notch condition.

[PilotguyPA28]

This is Tom Williams Lexus, one of the best Lexus Dealers in the Southeast. Their e-mailed ad states Timing Belt Replacement. I doubt it covers anything extra like the water pump, etc. It's good through 2/27/10. They are good for whatever they say.

[eatingupblacktop]

This is Tom Williams Lexus, one of the best Lexus Dealers in the Southeast. Their e-mailed ad states Timing Belt Replacement. I doubt it covers anything extra like the water pump, etc. It's good through 2/27/10. They are good for whatever they say.

Then they won't mind specifying what's covered in that price! I don't think you want to be taking a risk with your vvt by leaving behind an old water pump or tensioner. Get their (all in) price in writing (not a prob for such a reputable dealer) for replacing all related components.

[landar]

Yes. Definitely get a list of parts that will be replaced. Here is list of parts (with cost) that I recently replaced.

All parts are OEM Toyota from the Lexus dealer, except for the serpentine belt which is a Gates.

1) Belt, timing $41.86 p/n 13568-09070

2) Pump, water $114.46 p/n 16100-59275-83 (comes with gasket)

3) Idler #2 $71.06 p/n 13503-0F010

4) Idler #1 $70.76 p/n 13505-0F010

5) Tensioner $44.93 p/n 13540-50030

6) Thermostat $15.19 p/n 90916-03100 (later 1998 models, earlier require different)

7) T/S gasket $4.46 p/n 16325-62010

8) Antifreeze $18.19 per gallon (x2 = $36.38) p/n 00272-1LLAC-01

9) O-ring $2.63 p/n 96761-24019

10) Serp. belt $49 Gates(NAPA)

Total cost: $450.73

[PilotguyPA28]

Oh yes, I will get a list. Tom Williams wouldn't have a problem with that at all. They are above board. Probably one of the best Dealers in the country. Great list Lander. Thanks!

[vdeleon]

Oh yes, I will get a list. Tom Williams wouldn't have a problem with that at all. They are above board. Probably one of the best Dealers in the country. Great list Lander. Thanks!

Does this deal apply to all Lexus dealer nationwide? I check mine in Jacksonville, FL and it's not in there.

[jainla]

I went through this in August with my '01. It only had about 85k miles but the belt was coming up on 8 years of service. I think I drove it about 5000 miles last year, but since I drive the car in LA (automotive hell) I eventually broke down and replaced the belt. I figure it was cheaper than buying a new engine should the belt fail.

Many dealers or indepent shops will quote you for just the timing belt; but while they are in there you really should replace the water pump. It's hard to get to on these engines and should it fail it will take your belt (and possibly the engine) with it. My pump was actually leaking when they replaced it; the engine also seems to run much quieter (I think one of my tensioners or pulleys was squeaking). Mike showed me all the parts after the service; the belt looked OK but not great.

I think the guys at Lexology in Hermosa quoted me about $1100 for the whole shebang; I had them do some additional work while it was there so my bill was higher. I had another shop (not Lexus/Toyota specialist) quote it and I think it was about $600 just for the belt. My normal shop was too scared to do it (hence the need to shop around). Getting to the timing belt is a real pain; it involves removing the radiator and draining the coolant from the car so the labor costs for this service will be high.

[PilotguyPA28]

I called Tom Williams Lexus and was given a price of $1750 to do all they suggest to do in a Timing Belt change. What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump. I know that is the way it is but I don't like it. The service Mgr said he didn't necessarily agree but that was how the industry was.

[landar]

I called Tom Williams Lexus and was given a price of $1750 to do all they suggest to do in a Timing Belt change. What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump. I know that is the way it is but I don't like it. The service Mgr said he didn't necessarily agree but that was how the industry was.

$1750 is more like it. So, what was the "special" for $475?

[SRK]

What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump.

That's called duplicate labour, and it is a fraudulent way of doing business. That's not the "way it is". Many try it, but it's not acceptable. No honest shop would do it. Most flat rate tables reflect multiple operations as reducing the time charged. I'd speak to the Lexus regional manager from Toyota. They might be interested to hear that, or perhaps not.....

[eatingupblacktop]

This is Tom Williams Lexus, one of the best Lexus Dealers in the Southeast. Their e-mailed ad states Timing Belt Replacement. I doubt it covers anything extra like the water pump, etc. It's good through 2/27/10. They are good for whatever they say.

Sometimes you get disappointed when perception meets reality.

What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump.

That's called duplicate labour, and it is a fraudulent way of doing business. That's not the "way it is". Many try it, but it's not acceptable. No honest shop would do it. Most flat rate tables reflect multiple operations as reducing the time charged. I'd speak to the Lexus regional manager from Toyota. They might be interested to hear that, or perhaps not.....

Exactly right! If you want to call him out, ask the dealer to explain how their "book cost" is calculated and whether it's sanctioned by Lexus/Toyota. If you don't plan to continue using their services, you can tell him his name and response will be posted to Lexus forums. Successful dealers are aware of the clubs and read them regularly.

"The way it is" means the shop is willing to trade off informed customers for those who walk in with $$$$ signs on their foreheads. For every knowledgeable owner there are 10 marks willing to pay the shop's going rate regardless of how excessive it might be. There are plenty of reputeable shops who will use the flat rates set out by the manufacturers. Ask SRK correctly points out, the tables compensate for duplication of labor. Just take your business elsewhere and be thankfull for clubs like this one.

[eatingupblacktop]

Hey SRK, getting any of that Olympic fever, being in Victoria? Or is that too far away from you? Have a buddy who moved to Victoria last summer and is buggin' us to come out. His wife actually got to carry the torch for a stretch.

[SRK]

I'm only about 30 miles away, across the water, from Vancouver. I don't get the Olympics thing. I don't disagree with them, I just don't have any interest.

You won't find a better place to visit than Victoria though. All of BC is fabulous actually, the "best place on earth" as we like to say around here. Big too. About the size of Washington, Oregon, and most of California rolled into one..... it takes a while to see.

[LJS2]

What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump.

That's called duplicate labour, and it is a fraudulent way of doing business. That's not the "way it is". Many try it, but it's not acceptable. No honest shop would do it. Most flat rate tables reflect multiple operations as reducing the time charged. I'd speak to the Lexus regional manager from Toyota. They might be interested to hear that, or perhaps not.....

Concur! Incidentally I was a former GMAC/MIC Automotive Mechanical Breakdown Insurance Adjuster...in Tampa... (prior to full USAF career)...duplicate labor is unconsciously unacceptable!

[LJS2]

What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump.

That's called duplicate labour, and it is a fraudulent way of doing business. That's not the "way it is". Many try it, but it's not acceptable. No honest shop would do it. Most flat rate tables reflect multiple operations as reducing the time charged. I'd speak to the Lexus regional manager from Toyota. They might be interested to hear that, or perhaps not.....

Concur! Incidentally I was a former GMAC/MIC Automotive Mechanical Breakdown Insurance Adjuster...in Tampa... (prior to full USAF career)...duplicate labor is unconsciously unacceptable!

unconsciencably unacceptable....

[linheart]

OK, I drive an '03 LS430 with 55,000 miles. My dealer has a special for $475. Is this a good price and should I consider it because my LS is 6 1/2 years old?

Thanks in advance!

PG

$450.00 is a very low price to do the timing belt. If I had an 03 LS430 with only 55,000 miles I would not be thinking about a Timing Belt job for awhile.

I purchased my 2001 LS430 in August of 09 with 89,000 miles. I knew it was due for a timing belt at 90,000 so I was able to negotiate the selling price down a bit after telling the used car salesman that a Timing belt/water pump job typically runs $1200 to $1600 in Boston area.

I planned on doing the job myself this spring but decided to confirm and compare dealer cost before commencing. So last Thursday I drove over to the dealer to get a quote.

The salesman told me that the job (Timing Belt, Water Pump, and Drive belt) normally runs $1200.00. However this month they are running a special for $850.00. And by the way, a FREE loaner (New Es 330) comes with the job. To me it was a no brainer. Let them do it. I made an appointment for the following Monday.

Monday 7am, I drive my car into fully enclosed car bay, turned over my keys, signed a couple of forms and was on my way in their car in about 10-15 minutes. This dealership is like a palace. Every thing top notch. I have never had a better experiance purchasing anything in my 62 years.

Only time will tell how good of a job they did. My gut feeling is that I got a top notch job done for a fare price.

In closing, I would like to say that as far as pricing is concerned on dealership work, what they charge us and what their COST are (markup) is very arbitrary. One dealer (or private garage) will not budge from quoting $650 for the Water Pump and another $650 for the Timing Belt. Where as my dealer, on this occasion, chose to reduce the price. Supply and Demand.

My two cents.

B)

Linheart

PS

Another side benefit to going to a dealer is that they check everything and write down on the invoice what other work needs to be done. In my case the following applied:

Need new air filter. $40.00

Cabin/AC filter and Tray which was found to be missing. $78.00

Front and rear brakes Ok with 5mm left.

[fiveofakind]

It then seems like Tom Williams is like any other Lexus dealership......the 475 price was a come on.....

I would buy a set of shop manuals & DIY if you are mechanically inclined.....that way you can get all of those parts replaced for about 475.......at 55k miles I would wait.....dont rush a unneeded repair

5ofakind

[prix]

I called Tom Williams Lexus and was given a price of $1750 to do all they suggest to do in a Timing Belt change. What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump. I know that is the way it is but I don't like it. The service Mgr said he didn't necessarily agree but that was how the industry was.

I was quoted $1,000 by a VERY reputable independent shop in southern California. The dealer wanted double that. I eventually went with the dealer because after I told them of their competitor's offer, they threw in $500 worth of other repairs that I needed anyway. And the indie shop was far from me, and to get my car to them would have involved towing. It was just easier to go with the dealer and the few hundred extra I paid to have everything done was worth it for the convenience. It DEFINITELY pays to shop around for such a big expense.

[prix]

What I don't like is them charging the "book cost" of replacing the water pump and other items. That doesn't give you credit for already having things disassembled when they take the pump out. They charge you as if they are only replacing the pump.

That's called duplicate labour, and it is a fraudulent way of doing business. That's not the "way it is". Many try it, but it's not acceptable. No honest shop would do it. Most flat rate tables reflect multiple operations as reducing the time charged. I'd speak to the Lexus regional manager from Toyota. They might be interested to hear that, or perhaps not.....

Concur! Incidentally I was a former GMAC/MIC Automotive Mechanical Breakdown Insurance Adjuster...in Tampa... (prior to full USAF career)...duplicate labor is unconsciously unacceptable!

unconsciencably unacceptable....

Actually, it's "unconscionably" unacceptable... :-)

[Lexuses71]

I went through this in August with my '01. It only had about 85k miles but the belt was coming up on 8 years of service. I think I drove it about 5000 miles last year, but since I drive the car in LA (automotive hell) I eventually broke down and replaced the belt. I figure it was cheaper than buying a new engine should the belt fail.

Many dealers or indepent shops will quote you for just the timing belt; but while they are in there you really should replace the water pump. It's hard to get to on these engines and should it fail it will take your belt (and possibly the engine) with it. My pump was actually leaking when they replaced it; the engine also seems to run much quieter (I think one of my tensioners or pulleys was squeaking). Mike showed me all the parts after the service; the belt looked OK but not great.

I think the guys at Lexology in Hermosa quoted me about $1100 for the whole shebang; I had them do some additional work while it was there so my bill was higher. I had another shop (not Lexus/Toyota specialist) quote it and I think it was about $600 just for the belt. My normal shop was too scared to do it (hence the need to shop around). Getting to the timing belt is a real pain; it involves removing the radiator and draining the coolant from the car so the labor costs for this service will be high.

Wanted to reply to this particular post because I was just at Lexology in Hermosa Beach yesterday (for the 1st time) and got a quote for the TB/WP full service as my car as waay past the years but way under mileage (48K). They quoted me just under $900.00 for everything, inlcluding new thermostat, tensioners, and all other misc parts to do the job right. I will have them do it son, beacuse as another poster said wisely, its's a LOT cheaper than replacing a non-interference engine. Lexology also made apoint that the dealers do tend to quote you this $475.00 price, but thta IS just the belt, not the Water Pump or other parts. Everything they indicated they would replace matches the above post with the piece parts breakdown. So I'm comfortable I now have a shop that will do it right and I will pay a fair price. Lastly, they said that if you plan to sell the car, do the belt only, but most of their customers plan to keep their cars a long time so they almost always OK the full monty.