Aluminum Roasting Pan Alternator Oil Shield

[wuzzy1]

Greetings Lexus men of good taste.

Purchased a small aluminum roasting pan at the grocery store and fashioned it onto the alternator under the heat shield and over the alternator to protect from oil coming from the power steering or other places. Whatta' ya' think out there fella's? Looking for feed back before I put the sum beach back in!

Wuzzy1

1992 LS400

[ggemigniani]

I would worry the aluminum would hold in too much heat and cause alternator overheating. I use a plastic Clorox bleach bottle cover and it has worked for 3 years now and counting.

[curiousB]

Greetings Lexus men of good taste.

Purchased a small aluminum roasting pan at the grocery store and fashioned it onto the alternator under the heat shield and over the alternator to protect from oil coming from the power steering or other places. Whatta' ya' think out there fella's? Looking for feed back before I put the sum beach back in!

Wuzzy1

1992 LS400

Bad idea. The alternator has to give off heat or it will burn up. The heat fins and openings are specially designed to allow cooling. Your shield will block those. So you'll save fixing a $200 PS pump and have to replace a $700 alternator. Not good economics in my estimation. Also you won't see the failure until summer when engine compartment is hottest and you have a heavy electrical load going. So you might be lured into thinking its ok, then pop goes the alternator. Otherwise it looks good.

[1990LS400]

Bad idea. The alternator has to give off heat or it will burn up. The heat fins and openings are specially designed to allow cooling. Your shield will block those.

Well ... there have been a number of past threads on this and other forums where people have reported using plastic alternator shields on gen 1 LS400's for quite a few years without them causing any problems. Here is a thread from 2003 with photos of a couple of the nicest plastic alternator shields I've seen: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...amp;#entry30429

[oldskewel]

Bad idea. The alternator has to give off heat or it will burn up. The heat fins and openings are specially designed to allow cooling. Your shield will block those.

Well ... there have been a number of past threads on this and other forums where people have reported using plastic alternator shields on gen 1 LS400's for quite a few years without them causing any problems. Here is a thread from 2003 with photos of a couple of the nicest plastic alternator shields I've seen: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...amp;#entry30429

The Aluminum should conduct heat away better than plastic ==> better cooling if all else were equal. But ... the good thing about a Clorox bottle is that it is not likely to get dented in and close off some critical air circulation. Even if you are able to get the Aluminum designed and installed perfectly (perhaps it is, as in the photo), there may be a good chance that when you wrestle it back into the car, you may bend parts of it in towards the alternator, reducing the air flow that is critical to keeping it cool.

Especially since others have reported success with it, I believe that the Clorox bottle fix can provide protection while still allowing sufficient air flow. It is a fix that is on my todo list, even though I do not have any PS leaks now.

A related concern with the Aluminum pan fix is that with the A-belt right there, I would not want anything that might be deformed and move into contact with the belt. I think this would be more likely with the Aluminum pan than with the Clorox bottle.

But it was a nice idea, and good thinking to ask others before putting it in. You may want to save it to help cut out the holes, etc. in the right spots for the Clorox fix if you decide to do that.

[wuzzy1]

Bad idea. The alternator has to give off heat or it will burn up. The heat fins and openings are specially designed to allow cooling. Your shield will block those.

Well ... there have been a number of past threads on this and other forums where people have reported using plastic alternator shields on gen 1 LS400's for quite a few years without them causing any problems. Here is a thread from 2003 with photos of a couple of the nicest plastic alternator shields I've seen: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...amp;#entry30429

The Aluminum should conduct heat away better than plastic ==> better cooling if all else were equal. But ... the good thing about a Clorox bottle is that it is not likely to get dented in and close off some critical air circulation. Even if you are able to get the Aluminum designed and installed perfectly (perhaps it is, as in the photo), there may be a good chance that when you wrestle it back into the car, you may bend parts of it in towards the alternator, reducing the air flow that is critical to keeping it cool.

Especially since others have reported success with it, I believe that the Clorox bottle fix can provide protection while still allowing sufficient air flow. It is a fix that is on my todo list, even though I do not have any PS leaks now.

A related concern with the Aluminum pan fix is that with the A-belt right there, I would not want anything that might be deformed and move into contact with the belt. I think this would be more likely with the Aluminum pan than with the Clorox bottle.

But it was a nice idea, and good thinking to ask others before putting it in. You may want to save it to help cut out the holes, etc. in the right spots for the Clorox fix if you decide to do that.

ALUMINUM VS PLASTIC...the alternator has a "heat shield" that according to the directions with the new alternator says that the old heat shield from the old alternator MUST be used or will void the warranty on the new alternator. Since the alternator has a heat shield, I thought the plastic might melt and the aluminum would not. You're right about having to wrestle it back up and into it's position...I'm waiting...until I get the urge...17 degrees and snow...my question...what's the "heat shield" for? If it gets that hot there, wouldn't the plastic melt? The aluminum might hold the heat in...that would be bad...THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY!

[Bali26]

As long as its open at the bottom half, you should be ok.

[RDM]

I agree, aluminum transfers heat faster (which is great for a radiator) so it will get hotter than without a shroud at all. Plus there doesn't seem to be any air space between the shield and the casing, so there's no way to disperse the heat.

I would either reduce it in size or mount it away from the case using spacers of some kind if that was the only option, but it would be far easier to just repair the leak and not risk burning up the alternator that you just spent time to replace already.

[landar]

wuzzy...go ahead and use the roaster. Its good ole "Yankee" engineering! (Oh wait, you are in N. Georgia, sorry). :o

Anyway, the aluminum will block the vents somewhat but no more than the plastic version. Just make sure the pan has no chance to short out

the main output lug and I think you will be fine. Keep us posted.

[Bruno Molly]

I see nice Fab work on these Alternator sheilds...and I also have worked with Japanese engineers before. They design and Test the H3LL outta stuff. Based on my experience with how they think, the alternator has those vents for cooling....wouldn't it be better to just build a plastic or metal Gutter type drip pan and install it under the PS pump with a drain or catch can diverting the dripping away from the alternator? That way the Alt keeps it's original Open fin cooling without compromise... Just my 2 cents. Fixing the leak will solve all that tho. a no brainer. NOw does it take longer to take the Alt off make a shield, reinstall the alternator than it does to rebuild the PS pump? I've never fooled with the pump but I had to remove the pumps pulley to get my Alternator out and it took me about 30 minutes to get the ALT out, and 4 hours to find a replacement after I found out the 92 alternator's Plug was round, and would not fit my 93 which had an oval plug.

[jerryparks]

While you fellows are at it, I wish one of you would indicate the procedure for alternator removal. I did not see any tutorials on any of the allied sites. I want to know what I am getting into before I also remove the alternator. This PS pump removal is a pain to remove. I have never seem anything like it on removal. A good cheater bar works great in areas where one can use and manuever, but its value is marginal

without room to work. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for all the comments. They are encouraging. Thanks!

[dcfish]

I would fix the PS leak and call it a day...The leak will get worse and you will have to fix it anyway.

[curiousB]

The root problem is a leak in the PS so why not fix the root problem?

Look car alternators are not very energy efficient machines. 50-60% is pretty typical. So for 900Watts of electrical power out you're putting in 1400 Watts or so of mechanical energy. Well the differences are called losses and they are given off as heat. That’s why there is a fan blade in the alternator to move air. Imagine what your "cover" is doing to air flow? It’s like putting a plastic bag or aluminum potato wrap around a 500Watt light bulb. Can you say hot?.... The alternator internal electronics will eventually fail. Rectifier diodes will short out, regulator will fry. Not overnight, but eventually.

I say fix the leak and don’t compound your problems.

[RDM]

Again, agreed. Seems stupid to make a shield to prevent leakage when you can just fix the leak and never need a shield.

[1990LS400]

Again, agreed. Seems stupid to make a shield to prevent leakage when you can just fix the leak and never need a shield.

Stupid? "Fix the leak and never need a shield"? I went through a number of new and rebuilt power steering pumps in the 13 1/2 years I drove a 90 LS400 from new to 183,500 miles. Just because you install a new or rebuilt PS pump doesn't mean it's not going to leak in a few months or a year or two or three. The shield is "insurance". If reliable new or rebuilt gen 1 LS400 PS pumps have become available, it's news to me. The design of the gen 1 PS pump is basically flawed.

A rather serious and sudden PS pump failure/leak once became evident on my 90 LS400 when I was about 200 miles from the nearest Lexus dealer or repair shop. I wish I had had a shield on my alternator instead of having the engine die on an interstate highway and having to have my car towed.

[RDM]

Stupid? "Fix the leak and never need a shield"? I went through a number of new and rebuilt power steering pumps in the 13 1/2 years I drove a 90 LS400 from new to 183,500 miles. Just because you install a new or rebuilt PS pump doesn't mean it's not going to leak in a few months or a year or two or three. The shield is "insurance". If reliable new or rebuilt gen 1 LS400 PS pumps have become available, it's news to me. The design of the gen 1 PS pump is basically flawed.

A rather serious and sudden PS pump failure/leak once became evident on my 90 LS400 when I was about 200 miles from the nearest Lexus dealer or repair shop. I wish I had had a shield on my alternator instead of having the engine die on an interstate highway and having to have my car towed.

Funny how numerous other members agree with me, yet you only attack me. If you don't like my opinion, well, it's an opinion, nothing more. If you have some personal gripe with me, take it up with a private message instead of airing your problems in the open. You just look callous and vindictive when you do that.

And if the design of the pump is 'flawed' as you say, why? You seem to be the expert, tell us all what Toyota did wrong and how you would correct it. I have a rebuilt pump on my car, going on five years old now. Not a drop has leaked since the day I put it on. Seems your theory is just that, a theory.

I plugged the idle up valve on mine, eliminating that source of leakage, and the pump has never shown to be wearing or degrading. Now, I also maintain my own car and check things periodically, so if a leak was to develop I'd see it and fix it as soon as I could, if you choose to drive your cars until the problem is serious enough to leave you stranded, that's your problem. Certainly isn't mine. Your insurance may keep fluid leakage out, but it also keeps heat in. An alternator that's burned up from overheating isn't any better than one shorted out and full of fluid. I fail to see how you would think otherwise.

[1990LS400]

if you choose to drive your cars until the problem is serious enough to leave you stranded, that's your problem.

RDM, you are missing my point. Back in the 1990's a new or rebuilt PS pump (don't remember which) failed suddenly and seriously without warning and PS fluid starting pouring on to my alternator. I was far from a Lexus dealer or repair shop and immediately started out on a Saturday morning to drive almost 200 miles to the nearest Lexus dealer. I didn't make it. This was in the days before there were pocket size cell phones and by the time the car battery had drained almost completely and caused the engine to die at 70 mph, I had only a few seconds of car batter power left to call a tow truck on the fixed phone in the console. It was not a fun experience and one I would never care to repeat.

Maybe the rebuilt kits or replacement PS pumps for the gen 1 LS400 available more recently have addressed the problems and last longer but I went through a bunch of new and rebult PS pumps during the 13 1/2 years I drove the 90 LS before I sold it 2003. It's great that your rebuilt PS pump has made it five years. I wish some of mine had.

[1990LS400]

There is an interesting post from RDM on 28 February 2006: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27976&st=0&p=181971&fromsearch=1entry181971

I quote from what RDM wrote back then in case he edits his old post to destroy the evidence :chairshot: :

"2) PS pump- Are reman pumps just crap for these cars? I'm on my second, fully flushed both times and filled with fresh ATF, and now the third one is whining when it's cold out. Again I don't mind paying more money if it's going to fix it because it's a pain to swap it once a month, even if it's not costing me anything but time. Lexus quoted me substaintially more for an OE pump but did not offer any kind of gaurantee other than '90 days or so'. "

Hmmm, sounds like RDM's experience with gen 1 PS pumps on his 92 LS has been similar to what mine was on my 90 LS.

[eastmanm]

I'd be curious if the new difference with RDM's experience has to do with the air control valve, as he and a lot of other guys are now plugging that & eliminating it as a possible source of leakage. Has anyone else experienced PS pump leaks after plugging ACV valves? I've personally gone through 3 PS pumps with my 2 LS's (one a 93, the other 94) and both had the ACV system intact

From my end, I just pulled out my old PS pump & alternator, and the alternator is coated with gunk, so now trying to decide whether or not to try and rig a shield for the replacement - I'd rather not mess with the original AC cooling design, but alternator failures are no fun either. Maybe plugging the ACV eliminates any need for a shield?

Appreciate any opinions - Mike

Gold 1994 LS400

[RDM]

There is an interesting post from RDM on 28 February 2006: http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27976&st=0&p=181971&fromsearch=1entry181971

I quote from what RDM wrote back then in case he edits his old post to destroy the evidence :chairshot: :

"2) PS pump- Are reman pumps just crap for these cars? I'm on my second, fully flushed both times and filled with fresh ATF, and now the third one is whining when it's cold out. Again I don't mind paying more money if it's going to fix it because it's a pain to swap it once a month, even if it's not costing me anything but time. Lexus quoted me substaintially more for an OE pump but did not offer any kind of gaurantee other than '90 days or so'. "

Hmmm, sounds like RDM's experience with gen 1 PS pumps on his 92 LS has been similar to what mine was on my 90 LS.

You didn't answer my question as to why you have such a hard-on for me. It's clear you're the internet tough guy, your ego soars when you're hiding behind a monitor, but you're too chicken *BLEEP* to reply when you're called out for acting that way. How old are you, 12?

I never responded again to that thread but there was still some old power steering fluid in the system, which was the culprit for the bearing noise. After a final flush the last pump I put on got quiet and has been fine ever since. I could have saved the second one had I put more effort into the flush but it appeared to be cleaned out good enough then. So, why would I "destroy evidence"? What has that got to do with anything?

Seriously, whatever candle you're holding for me, it's creepy. Quit stalking my posts just to start a debate.

[curiousB]

Lets get back on point. That is an alternator shield.

Its a Bad Idea. For the reasons I cite earlier in this thread. The thermal issue is not trivial. Alternator designers spend hundreds if not thousands of man hours tweaking the many trade-offs to optimize the thermal profile. I don't think they'd be amused with roaster pans around their designs. Lets stop passing this off as a well considered idea. It isn't.

www<dot>electronics-cooling<dot>com/2002/05/thermal-design-challenges-in-automotive-alternator-power-electronics/

[1990LS400]

Seriously, whatever candle you're holding for me, it's creepy. Quit stalking my posts just to start a debate.

Well then, you might want to stop saying one thing on one occasion and then arguing the opposite on another. Don't blame me for quoting one of your memorable past posts that conflicts with the information you posted in this thread. That you posted completely conflicting information makes it look like you are trying to pick fights with people. And you used the word "stupid" to describe other people's opinions. Calling people "stupid" is not appropriate on Internet forums - automotive or otherwise - or in "real" life. And you have "flamed" people in past; it was inappropriate then and it is now.

What has particularly caught my attention was that a member of another automotive forum - who happened to also have member name "RDM" - was reprimanded and apparently expelled (member name and all his posts deleted) in the past year or so for similar behavior. The content and tone of your posts on this forum seem similar to those from the banished RDM on the other forum. Are you the same person?

[RDM]

Seriously, whatever candle you're holding for me, it's creepy. Quit stalking my posts just to start a debate.

Well then, you might want to stop saying one thing on one occasion and then arguing the opposite on another. Don't blame me for quoting one of your memorable past posts that conflicts with the information you posted in this thread. That you posted completely conflicting information makes it look like you are trying to pick fights with people. And you used the word "stupid" to describe other people's opinions. Calling people "stupid" is not appropriate on Internet forums - automotive or otherwise - or in "real" life. And you have "flamed" people in past; it was inappropriate then and it is now.

What has particularly caught my attention was that a member of another automotive forum - who happened to also have member name "RDM" - was reprimanded and apparently expelled (member name and all his posts deleted) in the past year or so for similar behavior. The content and tone of your posts on this forum seem similar to those from the banished RDM on the other forum. Are you the same person?

I wouldn't know since you failed to name the forum in question. I browse a lot of forums, I moderate others, try being a little more vague with your suggestion though and I'll see if I can't grasp for straws to answer you. The only forums I've ever left that I recall were by choice. My usernames with most weren't related to the one here, so I can assume you're just guessing in the wind. Again. Big surprise.

I have never argued anything opposite anything else. Period. Show me where you see this. I said in this thread that a shield over the alternator is a bad idea, and I still say it. And people still agree with it, yet you haven't attacked anyone else for their opinion. And my post you quoted didn't conflict with anything I've said, back then I had an issue and I resolved it, I just didn't fill the World in on my solution I later came up with, I didn't know I was obligated to do so. My power steering pump still works fine, the previous one would have too if the flush was more thorough. Trying to make an example out of me with half the information is further proof you've got some sort of agenda.

And I don't pick fights. Stupid is an opinion, true, one that I may or may not use when it's appropriate. It's still an opinion. You have made nothing but blanket statements urging fact, none of which you can back up with said facts. You post in a way that makes other members feel your word is law here, and that your posts must be followed to the letter as you know more, do more, and are capable of more than anyone on here. There is no opinion from your posts, nor any room for one. That is far more inappropriate than me suggesting a frying pan wrapped around an alternator is stupid. If you have a chip on your shoulder because some other member was banned from another forum that's completely unrelated, take it up with that forum and whoever that person was. Continually trying to start things with me for whatever you feel is needed is petty, weak, and sad.

[curiousB]

Guys this is out of control and completely off point..... Take your fight elsewhere.

[dcfish]

Guys this is out of control and completely off point..... Take your fight elsewhere.

Definetly , Way off topic . Mods are probably watching this and will soon be closed IMHO.