hi-ho-silver Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I hate to see an expensive spare tire go to waste in my RX400h. Lexus recommends including it in the tire rotation routine but since it has to stay on one side of the vehicle it makes no economic use of it. My dealer believes in just leaving it stored and just rotating four tires. This is what was done at my first (5000 mile) and thus far only service visit. I have been considering discontinuing any further tire rotations and letting my front tires wear out first and then replacing them with the spare and an exact match new tire which I would buy now. Since the rear drive (electric motor) is totally separate from the front drive there should not be any drivetrain issue with the tire diameter difference that will occur. I expect that rear tires on this vehicle will outlast front tires by at least 50%. Perhaps there are flaws in my approach and I welcome comments, criticism and other ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I hate to see an expensive spare tire go to waste in my RX400h. Lexus recommends including it in the tire rotation routine but since it has to stay on one side of the vehicle it makes no economic use of it. My dealer believes in just leaving it stored and just rotating four tires. This is what was done at my first (5000 mile) and thus far only service visit. I have been considering discontinuing any further tire rotations and letting my front tires wear out first and then replacing them with the spare and an exact match new tire which I would buy now. Since the rear drive (electric motor) is totally separate from the front drive there should not be any drivetrain issue with the tire diameter difference that will occur. I expect that rear tires on this vehicle will outlast front tires by at least 50%. Perhaps there are flaws in my approach and I welcome comments, criticism and other ideas. Do you have directional tires? Just wondering why you have to rotate them on the same side? The problem I see with waiting, is depending on how long (time) it takes you to wear out your front tires, the spare might be pushing the end of it's lifespan. Even without use, I think tire manufacturers recommend around five years for a tire lifespan. Even though you're not using it, it's still aging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katzjamr Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 i used all five in my tire rotation program, especially after i dinged up one rim and wanted the new spare in use. i think the dealer discourages it because it just takes more time to access and stow the spare in the rotation process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi-ho-silver Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 I hate to see an expensive spare tire go to waste in my RX400h. Lexus recommends including it in the tire rotation routine but since it has to stay on one side of the vehicle it makes no economic use of it. My dealer believes in just leaving it stored and just rotating four tires. This is what was done at my first (5000 mile) and thus far only service visit. I have been considering discontinuing any further tire rotations and letting my front tires wear out first and then replacing them with the spare and an exact match new tire which I would buy now. Since the rear drive (electric motor) is totally separate from the front drive there should not be any drivetrain issue with the tire diameter difference that will occur. I expect that rear tires on this vehicle will outlast front tires by at least 50%. Perhaps there are flaws in my approach and I welcome comments, criticism and other ideas. Do you have directional tires? Just wondering why you have to rotate them on the same side? The problem I see with waiting, is depending on how long (time) it takes you to wear out your front tires, the spare might be pushing the end of it's lifespan. Even without use, I think tire manufacturers recommend around five years for a tire lifespan. Even though you're not using it, it's still aging. Thanks for your feedback. My understanding is that for handling stability all radial tires should be kept on the same side of the vehicle when rotated. I would expect to wear out the front tires in two years or less and the rears in about four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi-ho-silver Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 i used all five in my tire rotation program, especially after i dinged up one rim and wanted the new spare in use. i think the dealer discourages it because it just takes more time to access and stow the spare in the rotation process. Did you keep all the tires on their original side of the vehicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Thanks for your feedback. My understanding is that for handling stability all radial tires should be kept on the same side of the vehicle when rotated. I would expect to wear out the front tires in two years or less and the rears in about four. I don't think this is the case, UNLESS you have directional tread on your tires in which case they need to stay on the same side. Check some of the tire manufacturer websites - Michelin for example - http://michelinman.ca/care/rotation.html Unfortunately, this only shows a four tire rotation, but it DOES show the tires changing sides of the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RX400h Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Whether the tires should be side-swapped often depends upon whether the vehicle is front, rear, or all-wheel drive. Check your owner's manual; it should contain an image that shows the correct movement. The other potential issue with not rotating is non-symetrical wear patterns. Rotating the tires tends to compensate for this by alternating the areas that wear most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryphon Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I generallly keep my unused spare as a spare for long beyond 5 years. Afterall, it is a spare, and will rarely if ever see any use. And if it does I will simply drive moderately until I fix the damaged/flat tire. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 This is foolhardy IMHO. I have put 135,000 miles on my ES300 which is similar in weight distribution, drivetrain, etc. I've also put 55,000 miles on our '04 Prius. I have NEVER had the front tires wear out before the back tires, they have always worn out all at the same time. If you think about it you never give them a chance to if you rotate them every 5,000 miles as per Lexus. In fact I have done this with every other car I've ever had, Lexus or not and the result has been the same...all the tires wear down at the same time...never the fronts before the back or the back before the front. I think the best thing to do is to do what Lexus says, rotate the tires every 5,000 miles and if your experience mirrors mine they'll all be ready for replacement at the same time. Anyways you're better off having 4 tires with similar wear and treadpatterns anyways than trying to replace two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katzjamr Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 i used all five in my tire rotation program, especially after i dinged up one rim and wanted the new spare in use. i think the dealer discourages it because it just takes more time to access and stow the spare in the rotation process. Did you keep all the tires on their original side of the vehicle? yes lexus rotated it and kept the tires on the same side, they did ignore badly out of alignment rear tires that were causeing premature wear, i had suspected it was the front because of the extra tourqe on these vehicles. i complained at 15k but they said they only consider dealer alignment issues at 12k or under or during the first year. so i paid for an alignment. then comes the front suspension recall at about 45k (now using michelins since the goodyears only went 25k) of course as part of the recall everyone got 4 wheel alignment. the service manager tells me that my rear wheels were more out of alignment than any car he had ever seen. when i mentioned that his dealership had aligned everything at 15k, he told me they didnt really have the proper alignment machine for the lexus 400h and had been using the one at the jaguar dealership next door owned by the same dealer. now at 45k they had a new system for alignment at the lexus dealership and were able to properly align all 4 wheels. imagine my chagrin, this is from a dealer who has otherwise treated me well in all respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Why would the 400h need a special alignment machine? Alignment machines aren't model or type specific... Sounds like the guy is full of !Removed! to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 This is foolhardy IMHO.I have put 135,000 miles on my ES300 which is similar in weight distribution, drivetrain, etc. I've also put 55,000 miles on our '04 Prius. I have NEVER had the front tires wear out before the back tires, they have always worn out all at the same time. If you think about it you never give them a chance to if you rotate them every 5,000 miles as per Lexus. In fact I have done this with every other car I've ever had, Lexus or not and the result has been the same...all the tires wear down at the same time...never the fronts before the back or the back before the front. I think the best thing to do is to do what Lexus says, rotate the tires every 5,000 miles and if your experience mirrors mine they'll all be ready for replacement at the same time. Anyways you're better off having 4 tires with similar wear and treadpatterns anyways than trying to replace two. Well, on my 2005 BMW 330CIconv., the front tires wear out about 25-30% slower than the rear. On my old RX AWD, the front wore out a touch faster than the rears. I generally 'rotate' (i.e. front to back) at about 12,000 miles, and generally only do it once during the life of the tires. So far, in 45 years of driving, no problem. Re: the spare - 1. Given prevalent lack of full-size spares, no issue, or 2. Depending on the history of the tires (e.g. if you had to buy a new one sometime during their life, and it is a little less used), I will use the spare as the fourth tire when I change (i.e I buy three tires), and use the 'best' tire remaining for the spare. Given the little mileage one does on a spare and only in event of need, that has been sufficient. When it is necessary to change tires again, I buy four tires; the 'best' one goes to spare. It works. Of course, this assumes that the same make/model/size of tire is available and used for the exchange. On the second go-around, you can change all running tires and keep the old spare if you wish. On the old RX, I changed all the Goodyear Integra (junk!) running tires for better tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I bet if you were to rotate the tires on the BMW more often that wouldn't happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I bet if you were to rotate the tires on the BMW more often that wouldn't happen... The extra wear would be more equalized. In fact, you are partly right: the 'performance' tires on the BMW only last some 17K miles for the rear, and probably 18-20K miles for the front. So the 'rotation' I do at 12K miles is too late. (The BMW, though 2005, only has 16K miles). I should try to aim for 1/2-life, i.e. rotate at 8-9K miles for the coming set. [The estimate I provided for the faster wear in the rear supposes that no rotation would be made]. I haven't done it yet, but will also compare estimated treadlife(lives?) of the next set with the current, and maybe adjust accordingly. I am OK, but not much more, with the Continentals that came with the BMW new. They 'slap' a lot on the concrete and I believe they give less 'feel' than Michelins would. However, as I stated in my previous post, Consumer Reports rated the new Conti DWSs very highly. The thing is that I had used Michelins (many moons ago) when I rallied, and am partial to them for holding up despite repeated abuse(s). But the prices they want in the US are really not competitive, though, of course, I understand the brand's strategy. I had tried some (Michelin's sub.) BF Goodrich T/A Tour on the old RX, and found them a very good tire. Very comfortable, reasonably good 'feel' (an oxymoron where the RX is concerned?), and good on snow.. great for MI year-round. [The newer 'Tour' is the 'cross-over' targeted tires]. It had great Treadwear ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katzjamr Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Why would the 400h need a special alignment machine? Alignment machines aren't model or type specific...Sounds like the guy is full of !Removed! to me... perhaps they never aligned the rears when they said they did, perhaps i am quoting him wrong, its been months since the steering recall fix, however he did say they used the jaguar dealer machine at first and that now that they had their own, they were doing better alignments, perhaps with mechanics trained to align lexus vehicles. now that i think about it you could well be correct, had someone looked at the rear alignment when i paid for one at 15k, then that issue would have been caught then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 There are different brands of alignment machines, but they aren't model specific... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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