Racing The Ls? Don't Forget To Drop $300 Every 5k Miles!

[nc211]

To address the original poster's question about the $300 every 5k miles: Unless your car is the exception, and requires additional services, you should not have to do anything to it outside of any other car on the road, ie, change the oil and maybe add some windshield wiper fluid in the tank. I would however do the transmission drain and fill proceedure every 10k miles or so, just to be safe. I recommend it, because quite frankly, it's the easiest thing to do on the car. It's easier than changing the oil, as you don't have to mess with any bolts associated with the plastic undercover. You just simply take a 14mm wrench, look under the car right around where your gearshifter is located, you'll see a rectangular pan with a bolt towards the rear of it "rear being the side facing the rear of the car", undo it, let it drain out into your container "take all of maybe 30 seconds", put the bolt back on "don't over tighten", and pour in two bottles of Toyota Type IV fluid into the transmission fluild dipstick hole in the engine bay. It's just that simple.

Once you get aroud 60k mark, then go buy yourself a turkey baster and a can of approved power steering fluild "actualy transmission fluid", open up the power steering fluild reserve tank, use the turkey baster to pull out the old fluid "careful to mark the low spot on the clear reserve tank were the top hose connects too, you don't go below it", then put some clean fluid in. Start the car, turn a wheel a few time for it to circulate, then do it again. Do that a few times, and you've essentially flushed the fluid. Oh, and you might want to change the wiper blades.

The big ticket service isn't until around the 90k mark, which encompasses the timing belt and water pump. That one hurts, no which way about it. Which, is also why you see a lot of Lexus for sale around that 89,990 miles mark. The owner knows it's time, and doesn't want to spend the money, so they sell it instead. Those, are great used buys, because it shows that the owner actually paid attention to the maintenance schedule.

I've got two Toyota V8's now: An 01 GS430, and an 05 4runner 4.7 V8. One is around 60k "lexus", the other is at 72k. Neither one has required anything beyond a set of plugs, a new cabin air filter, and normal fluids. Both run great "although the GS needs new plugs thanks to the dealership using a pressure washer on the engine bay". And when I sold my former 95 LS with 130k miles, that engine required nothing beyond the 90k service, except fresh fluilds. It was a tank!

So, if you're paying $300 for what are nothing more than oil changes and tire pressure checks, then you're getting ripped off "even if they do have free cookies and fountain drinks in the lobby".

[amcdonal86]

Oh I know they are very very quick, and would smoke the LS off the line.

I think the LS has better top-end though.

I guess technically the 1990-1994 LS400 would win in a straight line 2 mile race against an Accord by virtue of its higher top speed. :P

[SRK]

On the inside of the turn your radius would have been smaller, and you'd have made short work of the Honda.

But the LS is no good at making turns!

How do you know? Have you ever slid the car into oversteer? Just because it leans and "feels" like it can't turn, doesn't mean anything. Most of the time the car's limits are way past what the driver thinks. And most drivers shy away from the limit, and that's how a "slower" car can beat a "faster" car.

[amcdonal86]

On the inside of the turn your radius would have been smaller, and you'd have made short work of the Honda.

But the LS is no good at making turns!

How do you know? Have you ever slid the car into oversteer? Just because it leans and "feels" like it can't turn, doesn't mean anything. Most of the time the car's limits are way past what the driver thinks. And most drivers shy away from the limit, and that's how a "slower" car can beat a "faster" car.

All other things being equal, the LS does not handle very well compared to other cars in its class (E class, 5 series).

I have driven the hell out of this car a few times. It has pretty neutral handling with a tendency toward understeer. At the speed that the LS begins to understeer through a turn, my old Miata could've taken the same turn at LEAST 10mph faster without any loss of grip. But then again, we're not comparing the LS to the Miata. We're comparing it to an Accord. Despite being FWD, I think the Accord still has the handling advantage, having driven both cars for an extended period of time.

[jainla]

Honda Accord huh...my wife drives an 2002 Acoord EX V6, by far no slow poke, but only 200hp and 175 torque...it cannot handle any year LS.

A 2002 Accord V6 could easily take on a '90-'94 LS.

Keep in mind the current Accord V6 has 271 horsepower and 254 lb-ft of torque and weighs at least 200-300 pounds less than the LS.

Yeah but the LS430 has 320 lb-ft of torque and it's rear wheel drive so the weight transfer will help it off the line. It's probably the transmission; to be fair at anything less than full throttle the LS430 can take a while to decide to downshift. Then watch out!

Next time manually select 1st and then bury it. Although if the accord has a manual you may be out of luck....C/D says it's faster than the LS430 but not by much.

[Will B.]

You definitely need to be in Manumatic mode to have a shot, but the LS430 can go (especially the 04-06 with the six speed). If you aren't confident in manumatic, then you can switch the transmission mode to PWR which is better than the default ETC. You won't mistake yourself for being in a 335 or anything, but you'll still surprise a lot of kids in your "old person's car" :)

And, to everyone else, I wouldn't knock the Accord too much - the new ones are definitely quick and unless you are doing a couple mile drag race, you should lose every time. Most of my street racing is done in the first 500 feet or so. Ah, just talking about it makes me miss my SVT Mustang.

[nc211]

Honda Accord huh...my wife drives an 2002 Acoord EX V6, by far no slow poke, but only 200hp and 175 torque...it cannot handle any year LS.

A 2002 Accord V6 could easily take on a '90-'94 LS.

Keep in mind the current Accord V6 has 271 horsepower and 254 lb-ft of torque and weighs at least 200-300 pounds less than the LS.

Yeah but the LS430 has 320 lb-ft of torque and it's rear wheel drive so the weight transfer will help it off the line. It's probably the transmission; to be fair at anything less than full throttle the LS430 can take a while to decide to downshift. Then watch out!

Next time manually select 1st and then bury it. Although if the accord has a manual you may be out of luck....C/D says it's faster than the LS430 but not by much.

I don't understand this torque argument though, probably for obvious reasons associated with the poster of heresaid reply, me. But, my 05 4runner with the 4.7 V8 generates 270 HP at 5,400 rpm / 320 lbs of torque at 3,400 rpm. My 01 GS430 generates 300 HP at 5,600 rpm / 325 lbs of torque at the same 3,400 rpm. The GS is clearly more powerful across the board. However, the 4runner will throw you from the driver's seat to the rear glass window in a heartbeat with a full throttle start, yet the GS won't. The 4runner is super "jumpy", as where the GS feels "sluggish" in comparision. The 4runner definetly feels a lot faster than the GS. It must be in the gear ratios??

[SW03ES]

All other things being equal, the LS does not handle very well compared to other cars in its class (E class, 5 series).

The LS and 5 series/E Class aren't in the same class. The 5 Series and the E Class compete with the GS, your generation LS is kind of in a size class in between the 5/E and and the 7/S but it was never designed to compete with the 5 series or E class...

[jainla]

I don't understand this torque argument though, probably for obvious reasons associated with the poster of heresaid reply, me. But, my 05 4runner with the 4.7 V8 generates 270 HP at 5,400 rpm / 320 lbs of torque at 3,400 rpm. My 01 GS430 generates 300 HP at 5,600 rpm / 325 lbs of torque at the same 3,400 rpm. The GS is clearly more powerful across the board. However, the 4runner will throw you from the driver's seat to the rear glass window in a heartbeat with a full throttle start, yet the GS won't. The 4runner is super "jumpy", as where the GS feels "sluggish" in comparision. The 4runner definetly feels a lot faster than the GS. It must be in the gear ratios??

Which one's faster? My guess is the GS...

Who knows... there are many factors involved in off the line performance. The torque converter on the GS may be designed to engage more gently owing to it's luxury nature. The 4 Runner probably has lower final drive and first/ second gear ratios to assist in towing. That would explain the jackrabbit starts; but does it run out of power at ~60 mph? I remember the GS seems to take off like a rocket and never look back...

I remember most people being surprised that the LS430 with 'only' 290 HP was consistently the second fastest car in any roundup; only the BMW 745 was faster. It even beat the Infiniti Q45 despite having 50 less hp and weighing more.

[Marklouis]

I don't understand this torque argument though, probably for obvious reasons associated with the poster of heresaid reply, me. But, my 05 4runner with the 4.7 V8 generates 270 HP at 5,400 rpm / 320 lbs of torque at 3,400 rpm. My 01 GS430 generates 300 HP at 5,600 rpm / 325 lbs of torque at the same 3,400 rpm. The GS is clearly more powerful across the board. However, the 4runner will throw you from the driver's seat to the rear glass window in a heartbeat with a full throttle start, yet the GS won't. The 4runner is super "jumpy", as where the GS feels "sluggish" in comparision. The 4runner definetly feels a lot faster than the GS. It must be in the gear ratios??

Which one's faster? My guess is the GS...

Who knows... there are many factors involved in off the line performance. The torque converter on the GS may be designed to engage more gently owing to it's luxury nature. The 4 Runner probably has lower final drive and first/ second gear ratios to assist in towing. That would explain the jackrabbit starts; but does it run out of power at ~60 mph? I remember the GS seems to take off like a rocket and never look back...

I remember most people being surprised that the LS430 with 'only' 290 HP was consistently the second fastest car in any roundup; only the BMW 745 was faster. It even beat the Infiniti Q45 despite having 50 less hp and weighing more.

one of those factors being the Driver Himself, does he feather into an Hard acceleration or just stomp it hard core? Does he know the Maximum power curve in the RPM range and know his shift points to go slightly past it before shifting? most of the new cars today compute these factors for you in hard acceleration, but also puts in the mix the most "fuel efficient" factor as well...so it is better to "manually" shift yourself if you really know your vehicles strengths in the RPM range.

I shake my head every time i hear someone (mainly teens) in a modded vehicle run it to the Red line before shifting....sounds cool yeah, but thats not where the power is, and youll get dusted every time you race that way.

[amcdonal86]

I shake my head every time i hear someone (mainly teens) in a modded vehicle run it to the Red line before shifting....sounds cool yeah, but thats not where the power is, and youll get dusted every time you race that way.

I believe you are wrong. There are only a few cars where what you say might be true (80s-90s Corvettes, virtually all diesel cars, etc.), but virtually all modern cars today perform best running the engine all the way to the redline. That's where all the torque/power is! ESPECIALLY on Hondas with VTEC and Toyotas with VTTi or whatever it's called.

If you look at a horsepower/torque curve, you'll usually see the power start to taper off just a few hundred RPM before redline, but that's still much more than what's available when you shift to the next gear at that point (or sooner).

(No wonder you guys are getting smoked! )

[jcrome04]

It's not always the "fastest" thing to do.. (shifting at redline)

I know my lightly modded 93 Saturn SC2 felt a lot quicker when shifting before the redline. Boy I miss that thing :) it was REALLY fun.

[90LS400Lexus]

I had a 68 cadillac de'ville once with a 475 cubic block rated at 325 Horsepower and a 3 speed Tranny, that boat could float down the road pretty fast! it was suprisingly a quick car, despite it wieghed as much as a full size truck.

Gosh yeah.. I had a 1972 Buick Electra with a 455 engine... he car weighed nearly 5000 pounds, but it would still roast the back tires and pin you back in the seat. I most always babied that car, but there were two occasions I had to give her all she had. My current '72 Chevy Caprice and '73 Pontiac Grand Ville (both big blocks) are no slouches either, but I really baby those. ;)

[nc211]

The 4 Runner probably has lower final drive and first/ second gear ratios to assist in towing. That would explain the jackrabbit starts; but does it run out of power at ~60 mph? I remember the GS seems to take off like a rocket and never look back...

I think this is correct. The 4runner is capable of towing 7,000 lbs dead weight, as were I'm doubting the GS's mechanicals are set up to do that. You're right about the power falling off at higher speeds versus the GS. I was coming into the office this morning, flipped on the pwr switch at about 30 mph and stomped on it. First time I've really asked the car for full power before, and it took off like a rocket. I was at 85mph in a blink of the eye and still climbing at a faster and faster rate. The 4runner will launch you to 60 in the 6-7 second range, but once you get around 70, it starts to slow down "although still quite powerful". The 4runner has it's true power pull in the 2,700-3,700 rpm range, and then falls off. The GS I noticed today, really puts you in your seat once you clear about 4,300 rpm and up. I do know when cruising at highway speed in the 4runner and I stomp on it to pass, it seems like a lot more "activity" is required from the engine. But in the GS, it just drops a gear or two and screams off into the sunset. I do know this, if my son were 16 years old, he wouldn't be allowed to drive either one of them. I'm 35, and the temptation to "enjoy" both V8's is too strong to ignore sometimes, so I can't imagine what a teenager would do! I'm waiting for the weather to break around here, get some time to myself, find a back road somewhere in the country, and blow out the "old !Removed!" crud from the previous owner of the GS.

[Marklouis]

I shake my head every time i hear someone (mainly teens) in a modded vehicle run it to the Red line before shifting....sounds cool yeah, but thats not where the power is, and youll get dusted every time you race that way.

I believe you are wrong. There are only a few cars where what you say might be true (80s-90s Corvettes, virtually all diesel cars, etc.), but virtually all modern cars today perform best running the engine all the way to the redline. That's where all the torque/power is! ESPECIALLY on Hondas with VTEC and Toyotas with VTTi or whatever it's called.

If you look at a horsepower/torque curve, you'll usually see the power start to taper off just a few hundred RPM before redline, but that's still much more than what's available when you shift to the next gear at that point (or sooner).

(No wonder you guys are getting smoked! )

..slight differences in opinions, no biggie. when i say take it to the redline, i mean i hear kids hitting the RPM Limiter before shifting..(NANANANANANANA..thats useless....and annoying.

the only way your truly going to know what your cars strengths is to have it Dyno'd...the you can map out your shift points.

[jcrome04]

LOL I love hearing kids race and hit the limiter and/or miss the next shift.

I would not think twice about trading my LS in for a GS430 :D :D :D

[Marklouis]

I had a 68 cadillac de'ville once with a 475 cubic block rated at 325 Horsepower and a 3 speed Tranny, that boat could float down the road pretty fast! it was suprisingly a quick car, despite it wieghed as much as a full size truck.

Gosh yeah.. I had a 1972 Buick Electra with a 455 engine... he car weighed nearly 5000 pounds, but it would still roast the back tires and pin you back in the seat. I most always babied that car, but there were two occasions I had to give her all she had. My current '72 Chevy Caprice and '73 Pontiac Grand Ville (both big blocks) are no slouches either, but I really baby those. ;)

AHHH yes...the models right befor the government regualtions on the gas guzzlers....a 74' thru 78' V8 Block was only pushing 120 HP or less back in those days... <_<

[jcrome04]

I bet it's going to happen again shortly!! :D

[amcdonal86]

LOL I love hearing kids race and hit the limiter and/or miss the next shift.

I would not think twice about trading my LS in for a GS430 :D :D :D

If you're not bouncing off the rev-limiter every once in a while, you're driving it wrong! :P

[Marklouis]

LOL I love hearing kids race and hit the limiter and/or miss the next shift.

I would not think twice about trading my LS in for a GS430 :D :D :D

If you're not bouncing off the rev-limiter every once in a while, you're driving it wrong! :P

I accidentally did that in the LS once while in nuetral, thinking i was in Drive! got a good chuckle and a raised heart rate out of it!

[jcrome04]

I always love it when my buddies in their newer cars are cruising around town in sport mode, then come to stop at a red light.

They FORGET it's in sport mode, then take off from the light and it goes right up to the redline!

There's a brief moment of "HOLY $#!T WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY CAR!!" but then they immediately realize they're idiots and put it back in "D"

:lol: :lol: