Chuckl Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Is anyone else having engine sludge (gel) problems with the 330 engine? I found a cream-puff used 05 RX with less than 16k on the dial. It had 9 months of the original 4 year warrantee to go. With in a short time of a oil change it started to use oil and cold started in a cloud of blue smoke. The bottom line was ruined valve seals which were not covered because there were no service records to prove the car had been maintained. The sludge work was to replace the valve seals and clean out the engine for $6,000. I was lucky in that the bottom end of the engine had not been oil starved. I went to Lexus mediation and was ruled against because I bought a used car without service records. Even though the car came off lease when I bought it and Lexus didn't ask for service records either inspite of the car had no record of any service in the Lexus national data bank. If there's others out there with similar problems I would like to hear them. I am aware of the class action on the 300 engine but it doesn't cover my 05. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtoncd Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Sorry to hear about that. Our 04 RX330 has just over 105K on the odometer and has had oil changes every 5K since new ... no sludge here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatingupblacktop Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Is anyone else having engine sludge (gel) problems with the 330 engine? I found a cream-puff used 05 RX with less than 16k on the dial. It had 9 months of the original 4 year warrantee to go. With in a short time of a oil change it started to use oil and cold started in a cloud of blue smoke. The bottom line was ruined valve seals which were not covered because there were no service records to prove the car had been maintained. The sludge work was to replace the valve seals and clean out the engine for $6,000. I was lucky in that the bottom end of the engine had not been oil starved. I went to Lexus mediation and was ruled against because I bought a used car without service records. Even though the car came off lease when I bought it and Lexus didn't ask for service records either inspite of the car had no record of any service in the Lexus national data bank. If there's others out there with similar problems I would like to hear them. I am aware of the class action on the 300 engine but it doesn't cover my 05. That mileage is suspect. Comes out to 4k/yr. Did you buy it from a Lexus dealer? Did you check with Lexus re: the warranty prior to the purchase? If you bought it from Lexus and it came with a warranty certificate, then they have to honour it. If their argument now is that they have no service records for the car and therefore cannot honour the warranty, then it comes close to fraud on the part of the dealer. How can they offer a warranty without knowing if that warranty is already void before the sale is complete? Nevermind mediation, tell them you would like to avoid court action and see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djspawn00 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Did you run a carfax on the vehicle? Unfortunately Lexus isn't legally obligated to do anything but I'm certain they'd more than likely want to avoid legal action either way. eatingupblacktop's suggestion may help you out. I had a friend with a failed transmission on his honda that was way out of warranty but honda ate the labor cost of the repair all he paid for was parts. Maybe they'll work something out.. it's worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgorrie Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I had occasion to acquire a '99 RX300 after it came off its original lease. I recall having reason to ask the original lessee some questions about maintenance, although I don’t recall if I was able to ask directly or if I had to go through the dealer that had acquired the car (not a Lexus dealer). It may be helpful to try to contact the original lessee to see if they have any maintenance records that the Lexus dealership wouldn’t have seen. Even if they have no records, perhaps that recall who did the work, and that might lead to useful paperwork. Separately, I think leases require that scheduled maintenance be performed during the lease, so you have to wonder if the original lessor did his due diligence in verifying the maintenance had been performed when the lease was over. But I don’t know leasing principles well enough to say much beyond that, or to know of the lessor can be held responsible in some way. Last thought – as was noted previously, 16,000 does seem very minimal mileage for a lease. If the Carfax shows mileage through the lease, that’s helpful. If it doesn’t, I assume that periodic car inspections record the mileage, so checking with the state the car was licenses in may help. I’m in Texas, and I’m almost certain they report the mileage to the States of Texas after each inspection. If the mileage suddenly went down from what had been recorded earlier, someone would have fraudulently altered the odometer, and their feet held to the fire. Bad situation. I wish you luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckl Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 Thanks for all the advice. Yes I did get a carfax at purchase and the condition of the vehicle did not indicate more that 16k. Who knows? but its hard to tamper with the reading. The car fax gave only original purchase and annual registrations. The sludge is caused by failure to drive far enough to warm the car up and burn off the condensation water that collects in the engine as at cools. This is a further indication that the milage may be correct. Lexus is prevented by law giving the former owner's ID here in Fla. Most used cars do not carry service records, perhaps 5% do. I'm proceeding to court with the engine was defective in design or manufacture, supported by the 3 million cars (Toyota and Lexus) repaired in the class action settlement sludge lawsuit on the 300 engine earlier RX model. My second arguement is that the Lexus experts, who know the car best made no request for service records when the car came off lease. They never considered sludge damage could occur at 16k, It should have never happened except the engine has a design weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKperformance Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Don't compare this engine in court to the old one it will cause you to loose right away as the engine is a completly different design. I would contact the previous owners for any records of anything. Sludge truly comes from neglect as it was with the previous 1mz-fe engine . Toyota was nice to step up and replace them or fix it because the tolerance of that engine was much smaller for oil life. It basically had a higher internal temperature due to emissions which cause the engines to run hotter thus reducing the oils life. It still took 10 000k between oil changes for it to sludge though. goodluck ,hopefully they might help just don't compare the old one to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 SK I dont believe the 10k interval was the cause for failure, I do agree with your the engine is very hot running...and poor head design, the Passage ways dont allow oil flow completely. Another cause is when the engine fails to warm completely as in short run times and then setting. My neighbors Highlander sludged at 50k miles with all changes done on time at Toyota dealership...his wifes commute is very short and water and condensation build up is very evident in the opened engine....Toyota was nice, well they did have a lot of failures and still do...A full synthetic is probably the best insurance. I have lots of pictures of what it looks like(sludge) in my neighbors 50k 2003 engine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 SK I dont believe the 10k interval was the cause for failure, I do agree with your the engine is very hot running...and poor head design, the Passage ways dont allow oil flow completely. Another cause is when the engine fails to warm completely as in short run times and then setting. My neighbors Highlander sludged at 50k miles with all changes done on time at Toyota dealership...his wifes commute is very short and water and condensation build up is very evident in the opened engine....Toyota was nice, well they did have a lot of failures and still do...A full synthetic is probably the best insurance. I have lots of pictures of what it looks like(sludge) in my neighbors 50k 2003 engine... Lenore: In your opinion - which I value - would using synthetic oil over an extended period little by little reduce whatever sludge might be in an engine from previous use of non-synthetic oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I am using Castroloil 0-30 European blend which seems to clean things up...On a sludged engine, probably not....I noticed the crust on the filler area going away with this oil. Autozone sells it and right now is having a sell, 5 qts and K&N filter for $29. I usually stock up when it is on sale. I run for 3500 to 4500 miles on changes... by the way I have 160k miles now and no signs of sludge. Been using synthetic since 100k miles, before was using a synthetic blend..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I am using Castroloil 0-30 European blend which seems to clean things up...On a sludged engine, probably not....I noticed the crust on the filler area going away with this oil. Autozone sells it and right now is having a sell, 5 qts and K&N filter for $29. I usually stock up when it is on sale. I run for 3500 to 4500 miles on changes... by the way I have 160k miles now and no signs of sludge. Been using synthetic since 100k miles, before was using a synthetic blend..... Thank you, Lenore, for the response. Do you have any thoughts as to when to switch to synthetic (on a new car)? Some advice is to hold off for 10-20K miles, but contrary-wise, BMW uses synthetic from day 1 and their engines work fine and last well. For some reason, I cannot buy the argument that dino oil presents just the right combination of slipperiness and viscosity to run in an engine, whereas synthetic just happens to be too slippery and keeps viscosity too well. I know tolerances have reduced over time in manufacturing, but to argue that - by some miracle - the dino oil one would use would be 'just right' whereas any other would not be seems far-fetched. On the new RX, I'll probably change oil at 1250 miles and I'm still debating whether to use dino or synth., at 5K miles, for sure will use synthetic. I've liked Mobil1 and will probably keep using it. n a previous MB, I had used the Castrol synth., but was not so impressed - later learnt it was only part synth., so am 'off' Castrol - which I used to use in Europe (GT and GTX) as they were then said to be the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I too have used GTX in the past, That is why I mentioned the 0-30 weight European blend, It is a true Class IV synthetic....Says European blend on the bottle and is made in Germany....Autozone and Pep boys. LEX MEX on the other site and I use it and are very happy with it...Yea, change to the synthetic at 5k miles..I am still old school in many ways and want the rings to seat properly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtoncd Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Pennzoil Platinum is an excellent choice for your RX; if you listen to the advertising, it will clean out sludge nicely. It is in the mid-range for 30 weight oils (viscosity 100°C is 10.2 cst); 30 weight starts at 9.3. Castrol Syntec is also an excellent oil, but the 0W30 is almost a 40 weight (viscosity @ 100°C is 12.1 cst); a 40 weight starts at 12.5. Or, Auto-RX will definitely clean (safely) out the sludge. My $.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 I too have used GTX in the past, That is why I mentioned the 0-30 weight European blend, It is a true Class IV synthetic....Says European blend on the bottle and is made in Germany....Autozone and Pep boys. LEX MEX on the other site and I use it and are very happy with it...Yea, change to the synthetic at 5k miles..I am still old school in many ways and want the rings to seat properly.... Thanks for your opinion. Will follow it. Will let you know how it went after 160K miles, which is - 160 / 5 (K miles per year) = 32 years from now. I hope you will be around to read my message, but - more important for me - I hope I will be around to write it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Pennzoil Platinum is an excellent choice for your RX; if you listen to the advertising, it will clean out sludge nicely. It is in the mid-range for 30 weight oils (viscosity 100°C is 10.2 cst); 30 weight starts at 9.3.Castrol Syntec is also an excellent oil, but the 0W30 is almost a 40 weight (viscosity @ 100°C is 12.1 cst); a 40 weight starts at 12.5. Or, Auto-RX will definitely clean (safely) out the sludge. My $.02. Thank you. Is Pennzoil Platinum a synthetic oil? I'll look into Auto-RX.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauljcl Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Pennzoil Platinum is an excellent choice for your RX; if you listen to the advertising, it will clean out sludge nicely. It is in the mid-range for 30 weight oils (viscosity 100°C is 10.2 cst); 30 weight starts at 9.3.Castrol Syntec is also an excellent oil, but the 0W30 is almost a 40 weight (viscosity @ 100°C is 12.1 cst); a 40 weight starts at 12.5. Or, Auto-RX will definitely clean (safely) out the sludge. My $.02. Thank you. Is Pennzoil Platinum a synthetic oil? I'll look into Auto-RX.... Yes - of course it is. Tks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kategood Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 In most states they have a lemon law. The lemon law states that as long as a new or used car is under warrenty when the problem starts, the dealer has to pay for the repairs even after the warranty has ended, because it was found before it ended.. You may want to check that out. When you change the oil make sure you get 5w30. That is probably the cause.. when/if they changed the oil they probably put 10w30 in it since that is the most common oil grade. Hope this helps! Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKperformance Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Weight of oil is not going to cause an engine to sludge. Base grade synthetics are all very similar (castrol , mobil 1 , etc) , pick which ever one is cheapest. None will remove sludge as it is like trying to disinfect a toilet by flushing it. Auto rx , seafoam and all the others cannot remove it . They can remove some gelling which is not hardened. The problem is the coating of gelled il blocking passages caused further restrictions and can only be removed by scraping as they are a hard layer similar to acrylic. Higher end synthetics like motul have a much better base stock and ester which flow better and have specific qualities for each application. You are almost guarnteed to never have sludge from them . Lemon laws are for reoccuring issues never fixed properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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