Lexus Ipod Integration Cost/msrp Document!

[Mike V.]

To whom it may concern,

Two Lexus dealerships quoted me $399 and $499 respectively for parts and installation of the Lexus iPod Integration Kit for my 2007 IS350. After obtaining the Lexus document that is attached to this post, I was able to walk into the dealership that quoted me $399 and negotiate the price down to $275 without them ever seeing the document.

*BLEEP*s.

Cheers,

Mike

IPOD.pdf

[SW03ES]

Thats how business works, products are marked up from dealer cost so that the dealer makes a profit. They are in business to make profit.

Glad you were able to negotiate a deal for it, thats great. But don't call the dealer a dirty name because they sell things for a profit. Thats what businesses do.

[mr_raider]

Thats how business works, products are marked up from dealer cost so that the dealer makes a profit. They are in business to make profit.

Glad you were able to negotiate a deal for it, thats great. But don't call the dealer a dirty name because they sell things for a profit. Thats what businesses do.

The document clearly states dealer cost 218$, MSRP 299$ which makes an allowance for 25% profit. At 399$, I would have some choice words for them too.

[SW03ES]

The MSRP is just a suggestion, its the manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price. They don't have to sell anything for that and Lexus can't make them, it would be an antitrust violation if they did.

Its supply and demand, if consumers will pay $399 for the unit then thats a valid price.

My dealer charges $800 for the kit installed for instance. Am I going to yell at them? No. If they won't do it for what I think is reasonable I'll order it online and have someone else do it. Thats how business works.

[jrobsea]

The MSRP is just a suggestion, its the manufacturer's SUGGESTED retail price. They don't have to sell anything for that and Lexus can't make them, it would be an antitrust violation if they did.

Its supply and demand, if consumers will pay $399 for the unit then thats a valid price.

My dealer charges $800 for the kit installed for instance. Am I going to yell at them? No. If they won't do it for what I think is reasonable I'll order it online and have someone else do it. Thats how business works.

There is a fine line between a healthy profit margin and ripping off your customers. From my experience with my local Lexus dealer, I'd say they are more on the end of ripping off their customers. They rely on the assumption that the customer will trust them to charge a fair price... and then they charge an unfair price.

Is $250 a fair price for the 10k mile service? When I said that was too much, they said I could probably do without replacing the cabin air filter and they would only charge $150 for an oil change and tire rotation. The cabin air filter isn't supposed to be changed at 10k miles, but they try to get you to pay for it so they can jack up the service fee - and $100 for changing the cabin air filter is excessive. I got the service done at a local Toyota dealer.

I once needed to replace a fuse that blew while installing a subwoofer and they wanted $15 for one fuse.

I have not given $0.01 to my Lexus dealer after purchasing the car. I get any parts or service I need from my local Toyota dealer. They sold me the $15 fuse for about $1.50.

Yes - that's the way business works - they lost mine, but they are still ripping off all the other people who don't know better. I consider the Lexus dealer service & parts business to be one of the sleaziest automotive operations in business.

[SW03ES]

Again...if you don't want to pay the dealer prices don't have the car serviced at the dealer! They don't force you to.

Servicing at the dealer is like shopping at Nordstroms instead of Sears. You can't expect to pay the same price at Nordstrom for a similar product as you would at Sears. You pay for the quality of the experience too.

Don't assume people who pay the dealer "don't know any better". Everything has a different value to different people. I had my car serviced at the dealer for many years. I knew I was paying a lot more than if I had it done somewhere else, but I enjoyed the experience, I liked the way they treated me, I liked my service guy, I liked the loaner cars, etc. I have since started using an independent mechanic and am enjoying the savings but that doesn't mean I fault the dealer for not charging what they charge...my new guy has a little shop and its him and another mechanic. No niceties, not even a waiting area. Its just a totally different thing.

I can buy a suit at Nordstrom or buy the same suit the next season at Nordstrom rack and its dramatically cheaper, but I still enjoy shopping at Nordstrom. Some people don't see the value, but that doesn't mean that others don't.

Lexus doesn't charge any more for service or parts than other luxury car brands. Toyota dealer is cheaper...Toyotas are cheaper too, why did you buy a Lexus and not a Toyota? Because you valued the better experience in the Lexus. The dealer is no different.

Really the only reason I stopped using the dealer is my service guy left, if he were still there I'd still go there.

MOST Lexus owners have more money than they have time or desire for hassle, and the dealer is a pleasant, affluent, and painless experience so they happily pay.

[jrobsea]

Again...if you don't want to pay the dealer prices don't have the car serviced at the dealer! They don't force you to.

Servicing at the dealer is like shopping at Nordstroms instead of Sears. You can't expect to pay the same price at Nordstrom for a similar product as you would at Sears. You pay for the quality of the experience too.

Don't assume people who pay the dealer "don't know any better". Everything has a different value to different people. I had my car serviced at the dealer for many years. I knew I was paying a lot more than if I had it done somewhere else, but I enjoyed the experience, I liked the way they treated me, I liked my service guy, I liked the loaner cars, etc. I have since started using an independent mechanic and am enjoying the savings but that doesn't mean I fault the dealer for not charging what they charge...my new guy has a little shop and its him and another mechanic. No niceties, not even a waiting area. Its just a totally different thing.

I can buy a suit at Nordstrom or buy the same suit the next season at Nordstrom rack and its dramatically cheaper, but I still enjoy shopping at Nordstrom. Some people don't see the value, but that doesn't mean that others don't.

Lexus doesn't charge any more for service or parts than other luxury car brands. Toyota dealer is cheaper...Toyotas are cheaper too, why did you buy a Lexus and not a Toyota? Because you valued the better experience in the Lexus. The dealer is no different.

Really the only reason I stopped using the dealer is my service guy left, if he were still there I'd still go there.

MOST Lexus owners have more money than they have time or desire for hassle, and the dealer is a pleasant, affluent, and painless experience so they happily pay.

Yes - I think you have a good point. There are certainly some customers who are aware of how much of a premium they are paying to go through the dealer for parts/service - and they still choose that route. I think at the same time, there is a contingent of customers who are under the impression that they have to use the dealer for service and that the dealer is charging a reasonable price. I consider my local dealer service sleazy because they mislead this customer group into thinking they have to pay the inflated prices to maintain their car. I'm pretty sure a healthy chunk of this group does not know any better.

[SW03ES]

Well thats life. Its not a business' responsibility to educate their customers about their cost vs their competitors. Thats how the world works.

At some point people have to take the responsibility upon themselves to do a little research before they commit their resources to something. I have no sympathy for people who don't.

How is your dealer sleazy for selling customers on the value of their services? Thats what businesses and salespeople do. As long as they aren't lying to the customer, of course they are going to suggest to the customer they should use them.

[jrobsea]

Well thats life. Its not a business' responsibility to educate their customers about their cost vs their competitors. Thats how the world works.

At some point people have to take the responsibility upon themselves to do a little research before they commit their resources to something. I have no sympathy for people who don't.

How is your dealer sleazy for selling customers on the value of their services? Thats what businesses and salespeople do. As long as they aren't lying to the customer, of course they are going to suggest to the customer they should use them.

I see thread after thread of people indicating they feel ripped off by dealer parts & service when they realize how much they were charged for something (you just posted about getting charged $20 by the dealer for a quart of oil that was worth much less). My experience with my local dealer matches that, although in my case I asked about prices ahead of time and chose to do business elsewhere. I think it is sleazy to run a business this way.

People do need to take responsibility an realize what they are paying, but don't you think businesses should take some responsibility as well? The US would be a pretty crappy place if every business was constantly trying to overcharge you.

In my opinion, Lexus makes great cars. The quality of their cars has built a brand that people trust. I think almost everyone who buys a Lexus comes away from the experience feeling like they got a good value because of the high quality of the car. The way the dealerships run their parts & service operations is a disservice to the brand. I'd be surprised if anyone looks at what they pay for dealer service and thinks they got a good value. I can believe they might continue to go there because they like the idea of dealer service or because they find it convenient, but they are still being overcharged.

You would probably think you were getting scammed if you brought your new ES home and found out it was actually a Camry, and they pulled off the Toyota Camry label, replaced it with a Lexus ES label, and marked up the price by $5,000. They don't do this with the cars, but they do it with the parts and service business.

[SW03ES]

I didn't feel screwed by the dealer because of the $20 a quart synthetic oil...I simply opted to bring my own oil from then on. It takes extra time, I could save that time and have the dealer do it if I wanted to spend the extra money but I don't. I'm sure other people do.

Again, Lexus is a luxury car company and their dealers charge similar prices to BMW dealers, Audi dealers, Mercedes dealers. You wanna see insance service costs? Buy a Volkswagen. Volkswagen/Audi deliberately designed a prepriatary diagnostic system so people would HAVE to use the dealer, and then resold those diagnostic systems to independent shops at a price none could afford. Thats why an independent VW or Audi shop is so rare.

At least the Lexus you can service anywhere.

You would probably think you were getting scammed if you brought your new ES home and found out it was actually a Camry, and they pulled off the Toyota Camry label, replaced it with a Lexus ES label, and marked up the price by $5,000. They don't do this with the cars, but they do it with the parts and service business.

But they don't, the quality of the customer service at Toyota and Lexus are totally different. I know, I have both. Lexus dealers have leather/marble/wood surrounded waiting areas with Plasma TVs, complementary coffee & tea. Mine has an entire grill and cafe. Complementary loaner cars for everything, wash & vaccum with every service. Everyone in there wears business attire and addresses you with tons of respect. Its a very affluent experience and things purchased there cost more than things purchased at Toyota, which is a more typical car dealership experience, guys in jean shirts, waiting rooms full of screaming kids and hard chairs, vending machines. Just like Kohls vs Nordstrom.

Why do you think Starbucks costs more than Dunkin Donuts?

Don't want to pay for that experience? Then don't, but don't fault them for charging more for it.

I'd be surprised if anyone looks at what they pay for dealer service and thinks they got a good value

Its not for people who care about value, its for people who care more about having a enjoyable and convienient experience than it being the best value in town.

Its a luxury car, if you were concerned about the best value you should have bought a Toyota. You feel your Lexus is a good value because you see value in its design, features, and the experience of owning it. To someone who don't see that value, they would say your Lexus was overpriced and not worth what you paid...and many people do feel that way.

It doesn't mean you were foolish to buy your Lexus, it just means you find value in different things. Its the same way with the dealer.

[mr_raider]

No one is arguing the point of value at a Lexus dealer. If you feel the extra details and attention are worth the money, good for you. You are free to pay for it. With respect to the OPs original post, I still find it highly offensive that an individual dealer tried to sell the ipod attachment at a price above lexus's own MSRP. This is like going to the supermarket, seeing a carton of milk for 2$, and at checkout time, the clerk tells you it's 4$. Then when you bust his balls, he tells you "sorry, it's 3.50!" That's not premium service. It's greed!

My lexus dealer is expensive, but at least the pricing is up front and honest. I know an oil change costs 89.99$. I either pay it, or go elsewhere.

[PA350]

I had a similar experience w/installation of XM. They quoted me $999!! But what made this even worse is they flat out lied to me. Told me they had to run a new wiring harness from the trunk up to the head unit. When I showed them the XM installation directions, the cost quickly came down to $469.

I get the whole experience, Starbucks vs Dunkin Donuts or Norstrom vs Sears, but this is unethical. I do not trust one item they quote me on...I don't care if they just put air in my tires.

My .02c

[jrobsea]

I had a similar experience w/installation of XM. They quoted me $999!! But what made this even worse is they flat out lied to me. Told me they had to run a new wiring harness from the trunk up to the head unit. When I showed them the XM installation directions, the cost quickly came down to $469.

I get the whole experience, Starbucks vs Dunkin Donuts or Norstrom vs Sears, but this is unethical. I do not trust one item they quote me on...I don't care if they just put air in my tires.

My .02c

It seems I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum from SW30ES on this. I'm willing to pay for experienced technicians who know what they're doing, I'm willing to pay a little extra to go to a shop that has the Toyota/Lexus manufacturer diagnostic tools, but I don't want to pay any extra for the experience of marble floors, granite desktops and plasma TV's in the service offices and waiting area. Therefore, servicing my Lexus at the local Toyota dealer is the best solution for me (I should admit my local Toyota dealer does have a plasma TV, free cookies and drinks).

There are obviously people who knowingly and willingly pay what the Lexus dealerships charge for service. SW30ES is obviously aware of the cost premium and still chooses to go there. He has pointed out some attributes of dealer service that some people do value: high-end waiting area, convenience of purchase/service at the same place, treated well by the staff, don't need to research alternatives - the dealer can get whatever you need for your Lexus.

I have the impression that the majority of people on this forum have a similar opinion to mine, but I might be biased and just be focusing on the comments that are consistent with my opinion.

Anyone know how to start a poll?

Lexus parts & service -

Overpriced ripoff --- or --- a fair price for a high quality service experience

... and sorry I hijacked this thread, but the original topic is related to whether Lexus service/parts pricing practices are reasonable or if they are just trying to rip off their customers.

[mr_raider]

There are two issues here. One is whether Lexus premium pricing is worth it. The other is a particular delaer trying to charge over MSRP for a particular item. The former is up for debate. The latter is consumer fraud.

[Christian Baker]

Does anyone have this installed and if so how do you like it? I was thinking about getting it, I do not have navigation.

[mr_raider]

I have it on the non-nav non-ML. It's fairly functional, allows you to search by playlist artist and track. Controls are unmarked so you need practice. The display is only 10 letters, so text gets truncated.

[Christian Baker]

Great, Thank you Sir!

[SW03ES]

With respect to the OPs original post, I still find it highly offensive that an individual dealer tried to sell the ipod attachment at a price above lexus's own MSRP. This is like going to the supermarket, seeing a carton of milk for 2$, and at checkout time, the clerk tells you it's 4$. Then when you bust his balls, he tells you "sorry, it's 3.50!" That's not premium service. It's greed!

MSRP stands for Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price.

Its what Lexus suggests the dealer charges. They can charge whatever they want, in fact Lexus cannot force them to charge a specific price, THAT would be illegal (antitrust).

I have the impression that the majority of people on this forum have a similar opinion to mine, but I might be biased and just be focusing on the comments that are consistent with my opinion.

No I think you are correct, but that has to do with the type of consumer that seeks out internet forums. Someone who is a car enthusiast, has a working knowledge of cars, etc. The typical Lexus owner is not that way though, and they just prefer to use the dealer.

[Christian Baker]

Well the Lexus Dealer in Albuquerque wanted $751 and some change for the kit even after I gave my service manager the flyer. The service guy apologized and said the parts manager got *BLEEP*ed that I had found that on the internet. They wouldn't back down on their quote either. The service guy said they would honor the labor portion but not the parts. Oh well I am taking a trip to the Phoenix area maybe one of their dealerships will give me a better price.

[SW03ES]

I would just buy the kit online and have a car audio place install it...

[Christian Baker]

Yea that's what I am going to do. I sent an email to them and they said the best they could do is $500 plus tax. Guess they don't want my future business. I am all for making a profit, etc. but this a fleecing! I wonder if a car audio place will take of the car though and not jack things up because it will be their "first" time installing it in a Lexus.

[irfan]

There are two issues here. One is whether Lexus premium pricing is worth it. The other is a particular delaer trying to charge over MSRP for a particular item. The former is up for debate. The latter is consumer fraud.

Charging over MSRP isnt consumer fraud. Thats a suggested price, they arent using it... their call. If they are breaking Lexus rules, then its a breach between them and Lexus, but not the consumer. The market makes the real price, the MSRP just gets them in the ballpark.

[irfan]

With respect to the OPs original post, I still find it highly offensive that an individual dealer tried to sell the ipod attachment at a price above lexus's own MSRP. This is like going to the supermarket, seeing a carton of milk for 2$, and at checkout time, the clerk tells you it's 4$. Then when you bust his balls, he tells you "sorry, it's 3.50!" That's not premium service. It's greed!

MSRP stands for Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price.

Its what Lexus suggests the dealer charges. They can charge whatever they want, in fact Lexus cannot force them to charge a specific price, THAT would be illegal (antitrust).

I have the impression that the majority of people on this forum have a similar opinion to mine, but I might be biased and just be focusing on the comments that are consistent with my opinion.

No I think you are correct, but that has to do with the type of consumer that seeks out internet forums. Someone who is a car enthusiast, has a working knowledge of cars, etc. The typical Lexus owner is not that way though, and they just prefer to use the dealer.

ok so i didnt realize that i wasnt on the last page before i replied:) Anyways, Lexus cant FORCE them to charge a certain amount.. but if they find out they are overcharging and they arent happy with it, they can definitely curtail future support for the dealership. The dealer would then likely follow Lexus' MSRPs. Im sure in the dealer/Lexus agreements there are clauses saying the dealer has to follow certain pricing guidelines. if Lexus doesnt take issue with it, they can do what they want.

[kmitc999]

I like the car wash at the end of the service :)

[SW03ES]

Yea that's what I am going to do. I sent an email to them and they said the best they could do is $500 plus tax. Guess they don't want my future business. I am all for making a profit, etc. but this a fleecing! I wonder if a car audio place will take of the car though and not jack things up because it will be their "first" time installing it in a Lexus.

I had my Vaistech system installed by Myer Emco stereo and they did a great job. These guys take apart all kinds of cars, Mercedes, Jaguars, BMWs, Audis, they know more about taking the interior of a Lexus apart and putting it back together than the Lexus dealer I bet...

Just find a good shop that does high end cars. They charged me $75 to install my Vaistech kit, and I can't imagine it would be more to do the Lexus kit since its plug and play.

These guys fabricate entire custom sound systems, rework door panels with fiberglass, having them do something like this is like asking a brain surgeon to put some stitches on a cut...they can handle it.

ok so i didnt realize that i wasnt on the last page before i replied:) Anyways, Lexus cant FORCE them to charge a certain amount.. but if they find out they are overcharging and they arent happy with it, they can definitely curtail future support for the dealership. The dealer would then likely follow Lexus' MSRPs. Im sure in the dealer/Lexus agreements there are clauses saying the dealer has to follow certain pricing guidelines. if Lexus doesnt take issue with it, they can do what they want.

Wrong. They cannot punish the dealership for failing to follow their pricing guideline, it is an ANTITRUST violation, it is illegal.

Lexus does hold dealers accountable for customer satisfaction surveys, but they cannot punish them for charging less...or more...than the MSRP for a product or service.

I don't see people complaining when they buy cars for less than MSRP...its the same thing...just in reverse.