Snow Tires

[SW03ES]

It was designed to blend performance and handling into a package that would perform better in adverse conditions. Thats precisely what they did, and it does perform better in the snow than the RWD car. Saying its fraud because it doesn't do as well in the snow as a Subaru however is ridiculous, might as well say its a fraud because it can't offroad like a Hummer.

The reason why the AWD is not available on the IS350 is that at the time the system could not handle the torque of the 350. Now that a system has been implemented in the GS350, wait and see they just might put it on the IS350.

Find me a Lexus advertisement that touts the IS250's performance in the snow.

Here's the description on the Lexus site:

By directing engine power from the front to the rear axles, the available all-wheel drive provides improved traction and stability on a variety of road surfaces—in any kind of weather.

Just because something is AWD doesn't mean its going to do like an SUV.

[Rx330driver]

agreed

[Sidney07]

Well, I agree you are in denial if you are going to make the claim that the IS250 isn't for snow. What is it then, an off road car? That's it, a world rally cross vehicle! Look out Peter Solberg...the Lexus' are coming at you!

Seriously though, when you enter into the AWD world in a sedan, there are just various types of systems offered. Some have more front than rear traction, some more rear than front, some 50/50, and some even have electronic "help" to make traction even better. Unless you get the VDC on a Subaru, it's basically just 50/50. And it's been my experience (although I've read lots about guys who differ) that it works pretty damn well.

Truth be told, I believe the tires and the drivers skills are equal factors in getting around safely in the snow.

That's my .02 plus a tip.

[wolly]

Bart:

Yes, I noticed that the front spoiler is so low, that in a heavy snowfall, the car becomes a snowplow. Not exactly a great design for the Upper part of the US, where snow is a reality.

I don't think that even AWD helps if you're plowing snow in front of you.

Wheels arrived this afternoon. Driveway's plowed. I'm putting a coat of wax on them tomorrow, and then Sunday morning, I'll mount them.

larry

Has absolutely nothing to do with ground clearance...the awd 250 with stock "all weather" tires BLOWS! Can't even get out of my driveway with ANY amount of snow on the ground 1", 2", a coating -- doesn't matter! I can't believe how bad this car is in the snow!

[larry chester]

Well, here's the skinny. My car is a 250 RWD MT6. For the winter, I mounted it with 16" wheels, and Michelin Ice and Snow tires on it. I put them on just after the first snow hit our fair city (Chicago), and have been driving on dry pavement ever since. Didn't get a chance to try out the traction (or lack thereof) till this past week.

I'm telling you, what a GREAT COMBINATION. The car drives like it has AWD. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but the street down the side of our building, where the snow is piled up by drifts and by semi trailers, where Pickyupp trucks were getting stuck, and Semi-s were getting towed, my little IS250 in low gear, with the ETCS on, just idled forward at about 1200 - 1500 RPM, and just kept me moving forward till the end of the street. I never got stuck in three days it took Mayor Daley to dig us out of this mess, and even got into some pretty deep snow in parking lots and parallel parking along a curb. No problemo.

BTW, In the summer, take the time to wax your wheels. I had the time to put two coats of wax on the wheels before I mounted them, and then did wash the car back in November or December, before it got really cold here. Boy, did the wax make it easier to clean what is normally a messy job.

That's my story.

larry

[bartkat]

All weather tires must not be like they used to be. One winter in Ohio, I had a Mustang with Goodyear Tiempo's on it and could go anywhere I wanted to go in the snow. I think they must have compromised all weathers more towards dry performance and wet, with not much toward snow traction.

People with Blizzaks report great performance in serious snow weather. Of course, some tires are more snow and ice oriented than others, but appears these cars will go in snow with the right tires.

[seohenning]

Well the previous point was the best point made yet... AWD Lexus, Subaru, Hummers and Snowcats will all change your perception of what is good in the snow etc... but the biggest thing is just knowing how to drive in it period.

It has been snowing nonstop in Utica for the past 3 weeks, I haven't seen pavement since it started, the snow banks are higher than the cars and honestly my IS250AWD is doing just fine around town. Compared to watching others drive it's quite a difference. I saw a Mercedes rear-wheel spin it's tires for 30 min trying to parallel park, sliding back and forth barely moving and quite entertaining. Seeing that it was valentines day he was probably trying to impress his Girlfriend/Wife etc.. with his nice new car... apparently he should have taken her's instead (please note that the best part about it was there was a Lexus GS AWD right in front of it parked perfectly! haha).

I don't doubt that Lexus was marketing to the Northern states w/ the AWD system, but the fact is there are really not that many AWD cars out there on the market so it was a great move on their part to offer it, and frankly I am glad they did.

[larry chester]

Bart:

I dunno, I think that some of this might be expectations, and some of it poor driving habits. For years I drove my Lexus SC300 with Bridgstone Turanza all season tires on it in all seasons (is that repetitious?) Never got stuck - NEVER, and never slid off the road either. I did rear end someone once, though, when I was dozing in slow traffic, and woke to see her bumper approaching me at 30 mph. Too fast to stop fast on icy pavement with anything but studs. My bad.

But I learned to drive a car with a 3 on the tree, with regular tires in the snow. No positraction, no snow tires, just plain check it out, and ya' better know whatch yer doin. (oops, I'm dating myself)

larry

[SW03ES]

Well, I agree you are in denial if you are going to make the claim that the IS250 isn't for snow. What is it then, an off road car? That's it, a world rally cross vehicle! Look out Peter Solberg...the Lexus' are coming at you!

Its designed to blend better handling and performance into a package that is more drivable in the snow. You don't see Lexus commercials with IS250 AWDs blasting around in the snow like you do Subaru commercials. The AWD car IS better in the snow than the RWD car, there's no denying that. The Subarus system is better in the snow because thats what the system is designed for. Put your legacy and an IS250 on a track however, and you'll find the Lexus system affords the IS much better handling.

[Sidney07]

Dude....not MY Legacy, but a Legacy GT would be more like comparing apples to apples. And I'd put my money on the GT ANY day....dry, snow, wet. The AWD works better in the snow AND the tarmac. Just because it's dry out the IS will handle better? Please.

Why do you think the way underpowered Audi's were outperforming the Corvettes in the early 80's. It was the 50/50 AWD that allowed them to corner and handle better, even on the dry roads.

[SW03ES]

Its still not comparing apples to apples. The Subaru AWD system is completely different than the Lexus system.

Look up the skidpad and slolom numbers, I would be extremely surprised if the Subaru out handled a Lexus IS. Not all cars are comparable, and you've got two pretty different vehicles there.

Perhaps if you're just interested in pro Subaru banter a Subaru forum would be more up your alley. ;)

[CrunchySkippy]

All right you two clowns! Since nobody has yet posted the comparison, it is with a heavy heart that I endeavored into a research project for the two cars mentioned above: Lexus IS 250 AWD and the Subaru Legacy GT.

I'm torn because I'm the proud owner of an 250 AWD (and am cheering for it to be the *best*) but believe in finding the truth, no matter how BRUTAL it may be.

In a nutshell, Road and Track ranked the GT higher than the 250 AWD.

Specifically, the GT outperformed the IS 250 in the:

0-60

1/4 mile

Slalom

The 250 AWD outperformed the GT in the:

Braking (60-0)

Fuel Economy

They TIED in the:

Skid Pad

Braking (80-0)

The winner for overall performance? Subaru GT. (And it beat out the Audi A4 Quattro, BMW 325xi, Infiniti G35x, Mazda MazdaSpeed 6, and Volvo S40 AWD.)

Want to read the whole article? Check out: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?se...mp;print_page=y

P.S. Sidney07 - you should know that writing ANYTHING that disagrees with the moderators typically results in:

[1] Locking of the thread (so that you can't continue such a healthy debate)

[2] Getting demerits on your profile (Think I'm joking? Check my warnings out!)

[3] Or both of the above!

SW03ES - If you can't see the humor in this post, you need to turn in your Lexus keychain(s).

[bartkat]

Humor this. :D

[Rx330driver]

*cough* Crunchy, your not alowed to post an article that makes lexus look bad *cough* Just pretend you joined lexusownersclub aka communism :P you will now be executed

damnit those subarus are taking over! i see them everywhere, and they dont look half bad "anymore" lawl

o god, all the videos started playing when i went to the page. that was annoying. At least i can take into consolation that the bmw was in a very bad color.

[SW03ES]

I do hereby stand corrected. B)

[SW03ES]

P.S. Sidney07 - you should know that writing ANYTHING that disagrees with the moderators typically results in:

[1] Locking of the thread (so that you can't continue such a healthy debate)

[2] Getting demerits on your profile (Think I'm joking? Check my warnings out!)

[3] Or both of the above!

SW03ES - If you can't see the humor in this post, you need to turn in your Lexus keychain(s).

I certainly can see the humor, but you have posted something that is completely untrue and I will correct it.

There are MANY threads in which members have disagreed with moderators and many threads in which the moderators, including myself, have been proven wrong such as in this thread. This is a discussion forum. If we all agreed all the time there'd be no point. Sidney and I have had a very spirited discussion here. Has he ever once been warned that he'll recieve "moderator wrath"? Has the thread been closed? No. In fact we just had a long discussion in the moderator forum about the things that need to happen in a thread for us to lock it. If you'd like to see that discussion, I'll copy and paste it for you here right now. VERY few threads are closed here.

As for increasing your warn level. If you got warned, you broke the rules. In your specific situation you were warned three times for the following reasons:

1. Treating other members rudely in a manner which invites a flamewar

2. Refusing to respect a moderator's decision to close a thread by re-opening it and escalating the problem

3. Openly refusing to respect a moderator's position and right to make moderating decisions

I was not involved in this altercation but I did review it after the fact and I completely support the moderator's actions against your account. You started out your membership here attacking us for closing some thread and reccomending that a member use the search feature (which I can't stand by the way, I don't like it when people are told to search and then shut down but this happens on all internet forums) in a thread that had nothing to do with you. Your actions were totally out of line.

If you just respect your fellow members, including us, and treat them fairly even when you disagree then you'll have no problem with us.

I've been moderating these forums for a long time, and its not a life or death deal but these communities are a lot nicer for everyone if there are ground rules and the members are held accountable for how they treat one another. We have a LOT less rules and we're a lot more laid back than most other forums I promise you. We basically have two rules:

1. Don't be rude or insulting to your fellow members and keep discussions civilized and impersonal.

2. Don't advertise without asking first.

Thats it. Now, if you post something that I disagree with, I'm going to tell you. Thats just how I am, it has nothing to do with me being a manager. All our managers and moderators are members first, and 99% of the time when you interact with us in threads you're interacting with us as members. Disagree all you want, if you get moderated its because you were rude or insulting to your fellow moderators or you caused discussions to become uncivilized or personal.

My suggestion for you? I'd make more than 5 posts before passing judgement, especially since 3 of those included attacking a moderator for a moderating decision made before you even belonged here that didn't have anything to do with you.

Now we may return to our regularly scheduled disagreement, which is already in progress.

[CrunchySkippy]

I certainly can see the humor, but you have posted something that is completely untrue and I will correct it.

...

Has the thread been closed? No. In fact we just had a long discussion in the moderator forum about the things that need to happen in a thread for us to lock it. If you'd like to see that discussion, I'll copy and paste it for you here right now. VERY few threads are closed here.

Thank you for not locking this thread. Now I stand corrected.

[SW03ES]

Why would I lock this thread?!?

[Scott M]

Steve, sorry to jump into this thread and ask a question out of subject... but since you're here.....

Where did the detailing pages go?

I can't find them anymore.

:cries:

[SW03ES]

Which detailing pages? I think they're all still here.

Do you mean the tutorials?

[Scott M]

Which detailing pages? I think they're all still here.

Do you mean the tutorials?

I just can't find the links, since the new look took place.

I'm looking for the link that takes me to the detailing stickies, as well as the always updating detailing forum itself.

I remember there being stickies above the IS250/IS350 forum that brought me to the detailing forums.

Since the forum restructure took place, that link has been moved or removed.

From the Lexus Owners Club page, I find my way to all the different car forums, but can't seem to locate the detailing stuff.

[bartkat]

The detailing forum?

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showforum=9

[Scott M]

The detailing forum?

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showforum=9

WooHoooo... that's the one!

Thanks!

[Sidney07]

Wow, so I see the thread is still alive.

Sorry guys, been a little busy this week.

First, let me just say that EVERY time I get behind the wheel of my wife's IS, I must say, its is truly a remarkable car. Yeah, I am partial to Subaru's, and I tried to get her to buy a GT Spec.B. Having been a former Volvosnob, she opted to become a Lexussnob, admittedly at some of my urging. I know a guy who has a IS350. He's always raving about it, so I realized we needed to at least drive one. So she got the IS250AWD0 (after considering the BMW 330Xi, Acura TSX, Mercedes C240sport) and I figured I'd need to learn about them so I signed up for this forum and check it to see what's up in the Lexus world...

So the only point I really wanted to make was, by my own personal experience and what i've seen, read, etc.....was that the Subaru is one fricken amazing snow car, and whadddayaknow...they do make some amazing cars for the tarmac and the rally cross as well...ie. the GT Spec.B and the WRX STi. No they are not "luxury cars" like the Lexus is. If you've ever sat in a Legacy GT or a Limited...they aren't bad, and are getting nicer every year. Their strength, however, continues to be the AWD system. And it is years ahead of everyone's with maybe the exception of Audi, who has also been in the AWD market for a few decades. THAT WAS MY ONLY POINT, really. I totally respect and admire EVERY Lexus model out there. I was not trying to slam them in any way. Their AWD, however, just does not compare to Subaru's just yet. Not even the Foresters!

Thanks for everyone's two cents, really. The Motor Trend test was quite reavealing, no?

I will continue to peruse, and occasionally make a point I feel strongly about....

thanks guys...

[SW03ES]

Yeah the detailing forum is still there, you just have to access it from the main forums page.