Orbital Use

[Manchester]

I have an '08 ES350 with Obsidian finish. I am considering purchasing an orbital from Griot's Garage for polishing and waxing. Does anyone have experience with their orbital and the machine polishes/waxes? I have been using their products for a few years and have been most pleased with them. I have always been hesitant to use a machine to either polish or wax - as I don't want to damage the finish. I realize the Lexus paint on the ES seems to be a softer finish that shows fine "scratches" even when wiping with microfiber towels.

[rjt65]

Hi Manchester:

Just got my Black Obsidian April and mistakenly got it car washed ..SO I plan on getting an orbiter.

Look at the flex as the best of both worlds (Orbiter less RPM =less damage than higher powered rotary's)

suggest looking into the detailing thread in this forum (ES 350 detailing) http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...5222&st=255

Suggest reading it all but on the last 3 pages alot on the Flex versus the porter cable (previous best orbiter now the Flex)

these are expensive orbiters, but watch the videos and see what you want.

From detaildoc and that thread: "Here are a couple of great videos on how to use a PC/UDM: http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/pc_video.html http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/menzerna.html and one comparing the PC and the Flex http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/flex_demo.html

Good polishing!

I have an '08 ES350 with Obsidian finish. I am considering purchasing an orbital from Griot's Garage for polishing and waxing. Does anyone have experience with their orbital and the machine polishes/waxes? I have been using their products for a few years and have been most pleased with them. I have always been hesitant to use a machine to either polish or wax - as I don't want to damage the finish. I realize the Lexus paint on the ES seems to be a softer finish that shows fine "scratches" even when wiping with microfiber towels.

[Manchester]

Hi Manchester:

Just got my Black Obsidian April and mistakenly got it car washed ..SO I plan on getting an orbiter.

Look at the flex as the best of both worlds (Orbiter less RPM =less damage than higher powered rotary's)

suggest looking into the detailing thread in this forum (ES 350 detailing) http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...5222&st=255

Suggest reading it all but on the last 3 pages alot on the Flex versus the porter cable (previous best orbiter now the Flex)

these are expensive orbiters, but watch the videos and see what you want.

From detaildoc and that thread: "Here are a couple of great videos on how to use a PC/UDM: http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/pc_video.html http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/menzerna.html and one comparing the PC and the Flex http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/flex_demo.html

Thanks for the response rjt65. I will take a look at the links. I was always one to only wax a car. Is there a benefit to polishing a new car or does it cause greater problems?

I have an '08 ES350 with Obsidian finish. I am considering purchasing an orbital from Griot's Garage for polishing and waxing. Does anyone have experience with their orbital and the machine polishes/waxes? I have been using their products for a few years and have been most pleased with them. I have always been hesitant to use a machine to either polish or wax - as I don't want to damage the finish. I realize the Lexus paint on the ES seems to be a softer finish that shows fine "scratches" even when wiping with microfiber towels.

[rjt65]

Well as I have 1 million swirls/scratches (others can't see but I can at the right angles) for me it makes sense.

If you have been hand washing and you have no scratches you wouldn't need to really polish with a cutting pad or you could at least use a super light polish with light buffing pads.

Look at all the posts in that thread, Detaildoc and others would be best to ask (I too am a newbie getting into the fine art of detailing) I will be claying first than polish than lighter polish. than using the best product (again DDOC suggestion) ultima Paint guard plus and than some carnuba on top

I think the light polishing will give you a shine to outshine all others you see, but if you have no scratches I do not think you would need to polish so soon, but ask the experts.

cheers

[smooth1]

I have and use the Griot's orbital buffer. And I have an Obsidian Black IS 350. The buffer is nice. Not too heavy, pretty comfortable to hold, and the speed is adjustable from barely rotating all the way to full speed. And I have no swirl marks. The wax, and paint sealants they have are pretty good as well. Much better than you would find at any automotive store, that's for sure. I've heard some say they Griot's products are too expensive, but I didn't think so. But whatever. I've also used Zaino. I liked that as well. And you don't need a buffer for that process.

[Manchester]

I have and use the Griot's orbital buffer. And I have an Obsidian Black IS 350. The buffer is nice. Not too heavy, pretty comfortable to hold, and the speed is adjustable from barely rotating all the way to full speed. And I have no swirl marks. The wax, and paint sealants they have are pretty good as well. Much better than you would find at any automotive store, that's for sure. I've heard some say they Griot's products are too expensive, but I didn't think so. But whatever. I've also used Zaino. I liked that as well. And you don't need a buffer for that process.

Appreciate the info smooth1. I also use the Best of Show Wax. I haven't used the paint sealants. As far as expense - I simply look at it as protecting a much larger expense.

[smooth1]

Yeah, I like to think of it as Weekend morning therapy. I open the garage, wash the car and center it in the garage, good tunes and start. The Best of Show wax is good stuff. Honestly though, I don't see a difference between that and the regular wax they sell. I think they both looked great. I use the paint sealant, then go over that with the regular wax. Seems to hold up nice. The pads, (orange and red) do a good job. I know they aren't exclusive or anything, but I'm not a pro detailer, and I don't wanna be one. I just want to be able to do a good job on my cars. And this system seems to work out nice.

[Manchester]

Yeah, I like to think of it as Weekend morning therapy. I open the garage, wash the car and center it in the garage, good tunes and start. The Best of Show wax is good stuff. Honestly though, I don't see a difference between that and the regular wax they sell. I think they both looked great. I use the paint sealant, then go over that with the regular wax. Seems to hold up nice. The pads, (orange and red) do a good job. I know they aren't exclusive or anything, but I'm not a pro detailer, and I don't wanna be one. I just want to be able to do a good job on my cars. And this system seems to work out nice.

When you say you use the paint sealer - which specific product are you using? Also, I wasn't aware they have a wax other than the Best of Show and the carnuba. Do they?

[smooth1]

I use #11088. Just the paint sealant. The One step uses a polish in it that I thought might be a bit harsh for new paint finishes as they shouldn't need any polishes yet. If you have swirl marks and light scratches, then you might want to look at the one step, or use a #2 or #3 polish on it first, then use the plain paint sealant. And I use the carnuba wax stick. #11085. I also love the leather care. #11143. It does a great job, and smells like real leather also. Even the leather car scent stuff they have,(#11150) really smells like leather. I haven't tried the new car scent. And the window cleaner tool,#90247, really works nice too. Overall I like Griot's stuff. And they have been very good at service so far.

I don't work for Griot's, and I'm not a product pusher, I just have had a good expreience with them so far. I actually started with the #11750 kit. and bought the rest of the stuff as I learned what I liked.

[SW03ES]

Appreciate the info smooth1. I also use the Best of Show Wax. I haven't used the paint sealants. As far as expense - I simply look at it as protecting a much larger expense.

Griots doesn't really make products, they find products they like, get the rights to them, and then rebrand them as theirs and mark up the price. You can buy products that are as good, better, or precisely and exactly the same for less. No reason to spend money needlessly.

Its a nice catalog, but I haven't bought anything from them since I figured that out.

[smooth1]

Yeah, I know, but it's like going to a 7-11 instead of going to the super market. You pay a bit more, but it sure is convenient and faster.

[SW03ES]

No question about that.

[jcrome04]

I use a Cyclo dual head at my shop. It's awesome I love it.

Spins at 3k RPM just like a rotary, no burn worry, no swirls, AMAZING results!

Traditional rotary buffers are dinosaurs B)

[SW03ES]

Thats not an accurate statement. A rotary is a true professional's tool, and can achieve results that are just plain not achievable with any orbital polisher, including a Cyclo. the Cyclo is a great tool, but it does not rotate at 3k RPM or rotate at all. Its an ORBITAL polisher. To say it rotates at 3k RPM would make it a ROTARY polisher. Your statement doesn't make sense ;)

[smooth1]

I haven't used the Cyclo before. I think I have seen an ad or two about it, but that's all. I think I remember saying to myself for the price of that machine, I could get the machine I see all the pros using and all my chemicals and compounds and some nice towels for about the same money. All I can tell you is that I like the Griots machine. I use it to do my car with and I think it does a great job. Way nicer and easier, and much better results than using one of those $39.95 Auto Zone specials!

I've buffed this car 4 times now with it. Once to put on the paint sealant, and once to put a coat of wax on it. Then I just recently broke that down, easy clayed the car, and then paint sealant and a coat of wax on it again. I have the Obsidian Black, and not a single swirl mark on the car.

[rjt65]

Ok,but what if you have to get out scratches or a swirl?

I got a lot (as previously mentioned due to a !@#$%^ car wash that said only boars head brushs yah right) Never again will be in a car wash!

Seems like the FLEX is the best to remove scratches/swirls, etc. (and one step safer than rotary) as it trounced previous champion orbiter the Porter cable.

cheers

I haven't used the Cyclo before. I think I have seen an ad or two about it, but that's all. I think I remember saying to myself for the price of that machine, I could get the machine I see all the pros using and all my chemicals and compounds and some nice towels for about the same money. All I can tell you is that I like the Griots machine. I use it to do my car with and I think it does a great job. Way nicer and easier, and much better results than using one of those $39.95 Auto Zone specials!

I've buffed this car 4 times now with it. Once to put on the paint sealant, and once to put a coat of wax on it. Then I just recently broke that down, easy clayed the car, and then paint sealant and a coat of wax on it again. I have the Obsidian Black, and not a single swirl mark on the car.

[smooth1]

rjt65, I'm not a professional detailer. Nor do I play one on TV. I like to think of myself as well versed in taking care of the paint on my cars, but I would do exactly what I would advise you to do. Ask a ton of questions and get as many answers as you can from as many different knowledgeable people as you can bare to ask. Then make the decision for yourself on what steps need to be taken, and who you trust. Maybe take it to some shops and show them the issue and see what they have to say. Maybe talk to your insurance company and see if you can have the car wash help pay for it? All of it? Seems kind of difficult and a huge hassle I know, but what happend to you really irks me, as they will get away with it over and over. I don't understand how they can deny your issue. HAve you talked to them?

[SW03ES]

Really the machine itself isn't as important as the technique and the products used along with the machine. The Machine is just a tool, its like saying a hammer is better at hitting nails.

I have a porter cable, it removes swirls fine for me. I've not used the Flex, I've used a Cyclo and it is a little more aggressive than the PC, but its heavy and awkward.

The moral of the story is, what you buy doesn't matter (as long as its a real tool) as much as your ability to use it.

[smooth1]

Really the machine itself isn't as important as the technique and the products used along with the machine. The Machine is just a tool, its like saying a hammer is better at hitting nails.

I have a porter cable, it removes swirls fine for me. I've not used the Flex, I've used a Cyclo and it is a little more aggressive than the PC, but its heavy and awkward.

The moral of the story is, what you buy doesn't matter (as long as its a real tool) as much as your ability to use it.

That's well put. Which is why I think you, rjt65, may need a pro to address your swirl mark issue.

[rjt65]

Hey guys,

I somewhat disagree. If you have a bigger hammer, and it takes one swing and nicely drives the nail in, why use a tiny hammer that takes 100 hits and slowly puts the nail in resulting in a less secure and well driven nail?

Look at this video comparing the removal of scratches and swirls on a porter cable and flex. Now I am not dissing the PC, but just look a the video (I've searched the the net over months and spoken to and saw many other videos and forums touting the flex as the best.

The PC and the Flex http://paintcare-n-detailing.com/flex_demo.html

And as far as suing the car wash, etc.. no my bad for bringing it there and not getting info to stay clear before. I want to do myself and will become a polish king!! B)

Really the machine itself isn't as important as the technique and the products used along with the machine. The Machine is just a tool, its like saying a hammer is better at hitting nails.

I have a porter cable, it removes swirls fine for me. I've not used the Flex, I've used a Cyclo and it is a little more aggressive than the PC, but its heavy and awkward.

The moral of the story is, what you buy doesn't matter (as long as its a real tool) as much as your ability to use it.

That's well put. Which is why I think you, rjt65, may need a pro to address your swirl mark issue.

[SW03ES]

I don't want to sound snippy, but since you've never used a buffer or machine polished a car, I think those of us that have are in a little better position to give advice about what tools to purchase and how they fit into your detailing regimen whether theres a video or not.

You're not helping anyone by posting advice when you have no practical experience on which to base that advice.

I've been detailing cars with machine buffers for over a decade, and I've used many different buffers and let me tell you, you have to know how to use them in order to get good results REGARDLESS of the buffer you are using.

I'm not knocking the Flex, I've heard good things and I'm sure its an excellent tool. However, I can detail circles around someone using a flex for the first time with my PC because of my experience and my knowledge about product, pad, and technique applications. For instance, I never would have used an LC polishing pad for that application, the swirls were too bad. A little bit more aggressive pad on the PC and you could have gotten the same results as you did with the Flex.

The tool does not make the detailer. If I were buying a unit today, I might buy the Flex as a beginner over the PC. However today I wouldn't replace my PC with a Flex. I'd get a rotary.

[rjt65]

I don't want to sound snippy, but since you've never used a buffer or machine polished a car, I think those of us that have are in a little better position to give advice about what tools to purchase and how they fit into your detailing regimen whether theres a video or not.

You're not helping anyone by posting advice when you have no practical experience on which to base that advice.

I've been detailing cars with machine buffers for over a decade, and I've used many different buffers and let me tell you, you have to know how to use them in order to get good results REGARDLESS of the buffer you are using.

I'm not knocking the Flex, I've heard good things and I'm sure its an excellent tool. However, I can detail circles around someone using a flex for the first time with my PC because of my experience and my knowledge about product, pad, and technique applications. For instance, I never would have used an LC polishing pad for that application, the swirls were too bad. A little bit more aggressive pad on the PC and you could have gotten the same results as you did with the Flex.

The tool does not make the detailer. If I were buying a unit today, I might buy the Flex as a beginner over the PC. However today I wouldn't replace my PC with a Flex. I'd get a rotary.

[rjt65]

A few things:

1- that's your opinion and you are entitled to it as I am entitled to mine. Opinions are opinions, and people need to judge where they are coming from. Sure I would expect Practical recent experienced people should have the best info, but do you think all experienced 'detailers' agree on what is best, what products to use, and how to do things? Did I not represent that I have not used it yet? Did I not refer the original poster to a gr8 thread where you and detaildoc and other experienced people posted?

2- the Flex benefit (more rpm's is a fact, less time a fact,orbiter safer than rotary for newbies a fact) was confirmed by MANY other detailers in my research- one on this board, and many others researched on the inet- Do you think the detailer being equal, a flex is not faster at removing scratches than a PC? Not better for a new person to polishing? Wouldn't you prefer to use less aggressive pads and polish and still remove the swirls?

So after telling me I should not post, at the end of your post you say you might buy a flex as a new detailer. By that statement do you not add credence to my post informing someone of the flex? So I disagree that I am not helping anyone.

3- Don't assume- Actually years ago I did a recon of a smashed car-pulling dents, included bondo red lead Makita rotary, finished the front and hood, primed etc. . Before the accident polished the whole car to restore it. (Helped by friend) and helped an experienced 'detailer' friend restore his cars. Now it has been little over 20 years since i seriously did a car (outsourcing to others) but It is obvious an experienced detailer SHOULD be able to detail better than a first timer or me.

PS- You didn't sound snippy, ..............you actually sounded holier than thou :whistles:

I don't want to sound snippy, but since you've never used a buffer or machine polished a car, I think those of us that have are in a little better position to give advice about what tools to purchase and how they fit into your detailing regimen whether theres a video or not.

You're not helping anyone by posting advice when you have no practical experience on which to base that advice.

I've been detailing cars with machine buffers for over a decade, and I've used many different buffers and let me tell you, you have to know how to use them in order to get good results REGARDLESS of the buffer you are using.

I'm not knocking the Flex, I've heard good things and I'm sure its an excellent tool. However, I can detail circles around someone using a flex for the first time with my PC because of my experience and my knowledge about product, pad, and technique applications. For instance, I never would have used an LC polishing pad for that application, the swirls were too bad. A little bit more aggressive pad on the PC and you could have gotten the same results as you did with the Flex.

The tool does not make the detailer. If I were buying a unit today, I might buy the Flex as a beginner over the PC. However today I wouldn't replace my PC with a Flex. I'd get a rotary.

[Manchester]

I haven't used the Cyclo before. I think I have seen an ad or two about it, but that's all. I think I remember saying to myself for the price of that machine, I could get the machine I see all the pros using and all my chemicals and compounds and some nice towels for about the same money. All I can tell you is that I like the Griots machine. I use it to do my car with and I think it does a great job. Way nicer and easier, and much better results than using one of those $39.95 Auto Zone specials!

I've buffed this car 4 times now with it. Once to put on the paint sealant, and once to put a coat of wax on it. Then I just recently broke that down, easy clayed the car, and then paint sealant and a coat of wax on it again. I have the Obsidian Black, and not a single swirl mark on the car.

Good Lord! Am I glad I asked about the Griot's orbital! It has been fun watching all the responses. I do appreciate the candid comments and have decided I will purchase one, along with the instructional dvd. Thanks all.

[smooth1]

I haven't used the Cyclo before. I think I have seen an ad or two about it, but that's all. I think I remember saying to myself for the price of that machine, I could get the machine I see all the pros using and all my chemicals and compounds and some nice towels for about the same money. All I can tell you is that I like the Griots machine. I use it to do my car with and I think it does a great job. Way nicer and easier, and much better results than using one of those $39.95 Auto Zone specials!

I've buffed this car 4 times now with it. Once to put on the paint sealant, and once to put a coat of wax on it. Then I just recently broke that down, easy clayed the car, and then paint sealant and a coat of wax on it again. I have the Obsidian Black, and not a single swirl mark on the car.

Good Lord! Am I glad I asked about the Griot's orbital! It has been fun watching all the responses. I do appreciate the candid comments and have decided I will purchase one, along with the instructional dvd. Thanks all.

Yeah, I got the DVD and the book also. I guess it just came with the kit. It had good advice in there and what I thought to be very reasonable and honest approach about how to and why. I was actually glad I got those.