2008 Vs 2010 Rx400h

[ejolesch]

I have a 2006 RX400h that will be coming off lease in about 6 months. I'm looking for input regarding the 2010 RX400h. According to my dealer it will be available in late December 2008 or early January 2009.

I'm not sure what changes there are between the 2006 and the 2008 RX400h. Does anyone have a idea what will be offered on the 2010?

My dealer is interested in me moving to the 2008 now, so he can resell my 2006 (that's what he's saying). There will be no change in lease payments.

Any comments, thoughts, or suggestions?

Thanks

EJ

[jrober]

I certainly don't have any inside information but quite some time ago (before I bought my 2008 Rx400h), I did as much searching as possible to try to figure out how soon the updated hybrid Rx version would be available. I couldn't find the slightest hint of information that suggested that a new hybrid version would be available before 2010 or 2011. I don't think there is any way that a new hybrid version will be available for purchase in Dec 2008 or Jan 2009.

Do an internet seach and you will find lots of posts like this one.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiast...178.A13214.html

[lu1de]

My dealer is interested in me moving to the 2008 now, so he can resell my 2006 (that's what he's saying). There will be no change in lease payments.

2006 and 2008 are not that much different. and because this is a hybrid forum i'm gonna say that save the environment and move straight to the 2010 model :D

and if it really is coming late 2009, then it's only a couple of months away :D

[wwest]

I have a 2006 RX400h that will be coming off lease in about 6 months. I'm looking for input regarding the 2010 RX400h. According to my dealer it will be available in late December 2008 or early January 2009.

I'm not sure what changes there are between the 2006 and the 2008 RX400h. Does anyone have a idea what will be offered on the 2010?

My dealer is interested in me moving to the 2008 now, so he can resell my 2006 (that's what he's saying). There will be no change in lease payments.

Any comments, thoughts, or suggestions?

Thanks

EJ

Personally I'm holding out for an Lexus HSD AWD version of the RAV4, provided it uses the I4.

[Robl45]

I got yelled at the last time I said this, but I would wait for the new model. I'm sure the hybrid system will be better, probably get better gas mileage and most likely will have ventilated seats which I believe all lexuses have now except the outdated RX series. I have the 2006 RX 400 as well. The differences on the 08 are minor. Tire pressure warning system was installed in 07. YOu can play mp3's instead of just normal CD's. I believe the navigation is a little better. I can guarantee there will be a huge difference with the all new redesign over the 2008 and I'm sure unlike what other people may think that the price is not going to go up all that much.

I have a 2006 RX400h that will be coming off lease in about 6 months. I'm looking for input regarding the 2010 RX400h. According to my dealer it will be available in late December 2008 or early January 2009.

I'm not sure what changes there are between the 2006 and the 2008 RX400h. Does anyone have a idea what will be offered on the 2010?

My dealer is interested in me moving to the 2008 now, so he can resell my 2006 (that's what he's saying). There will be no change in lease payments.

Any comments, thoughts, or suggestions?

Thanks

EJ

[lu1de]

I would wait for the new model. I'm sure the hybrid system will be better, probably get better gas mileage. I can guarantee there will be a huge difference with the all new redesign over the 2008

I completely agree with you

[NeoN]

extend your lease and wait for the 2010 hybrid... no sense in getting an 08 now for the 10 to come out 1 year later!!

[silvercorvette]

I think you are forgetting something. I got rid of a RX400H with less than two years on a three year lease and replaced it with a GS450H with a three year lease.

Here is what i think. GM is coming out with a long range electric Volt in 2010 and I would be willing to bet anything that Toyota has the same type car in the works but they are keeping it under the radar waiting for just the right moment to steal spotlight from GM when the introduce the Volt.

But getting any new first year car is not a god idea for a few reasons. Two of which are all new cars have problems, and When a new car is introduced that will probably be in high demand most / all dealers will tag on a hefty extra "ME FIRST" premium for all those that want to be first on the block to own one. I figure this three year lease on the GS450H will run out right at the time when the GM Volt and the Toyota version of the Volt have been on the road long enough to have worked out the bugs, and the supply will be at the point where the dealers won't be able to charge an add on premium

[mrc88dal]

But getting any new first year car is not a god idea for a few reasons. Two of which are all new cars have problems, and When a new car is introduced that will probably be in high demand most / all dealers will tag on a hefty extra "ME FIRST" premium for all those that want to be first on the block to own one.

Wasn't 2006 the first year for the 400h? I have a 2006 with 40K miles and haven't had any mechanical problems. I think the axiom that you should "never buy the first year" doesn't apply in my experience to Lexus. I have, and know many people who have, purchased "year one" Lexus models(IS 300, LX470 etc.) and have never had a problem. There's no doubt you'll pay a premium if you want one of the first vehicles to hit the shore but if you wait until later in the year, you can often save quite a bit. I got $5000.00 off my 400h in August, '06.

[BobBass]

"never buy the first year" doesn't apply in my experience to Lexus.

In general, you may be correct, but the reason I ended up leasing a 400h was that the ES350 shared the infamous "flaring transmission" with the current generation Camry. No way was I going to take a chance and hope to get one with a "non-flaring" transmission.

I haven't been following that controversey for awhile and don't know if Toyota has finally corrected the problem, but this is a HUGE defect that was not discovered until hundreds of thousands of these vehicles were on the road. MANY of those dissatisfied owners went thru tortorous buyback or lemon law procedures to get out of the car.

They used to use that axiom for Nissan, too, but as the previous owner of an '04 Maxima, I can tell you it had MORE than its fair share of "first year growing pains."

[silvercorvette]

I don't know much about Lexus but most other first year cars are plagued with problems. MY RX400H has been trouble free for the 17,000 miles I have driven it. I picked up the GS450H last Saturday but I only have less than 40 miles on it because it came to SC from NY on a trailer hooked to the back of a Penske truck. I loved the RX but the GS is much much better. Since you have more knowledge about Lexus I will take your word for it the Lexus isn't plagued by first year bugs, but I still feel it is better to wait a while to get a new model. I just have this feeling that GM is stirring up interest in a electric Volt type car while Toyota / Lexus is just sitting back and waiting for the right moment to announce their own version of the Volt. But in every instance I can recall where a new very desirable model comes out the supply is short and the dealers add thousands to the list price. That is why I think that June of 2011 will be the best time to trade in the old lease for something new.

PS I know there is no way there will ever be a break even or payback point on the added cost of the hybrid, and I don't believe global warming is cause by man, I just love cool new technology and the GS450H is the ultimate in cool.

[jrober]

"I know there is no way there will ever be a break even or payback point on the added cost of the hybrid"

I disagree. With $4 gas and with my current average mileage of 27-28+ mpg, I fully expect to recover the approximately $4000 extra that I paid for the Rx hybrid.

I also kept my last 2 cars for over 10 years and the price of gas went up significantly over each 10 period. If this happens again, the payback time will be even shorter.

I like high tech toys myself and that was one of the reasons for buying a hybrid but if you keep the car for a reasonable period of time and if you drive it economically, there is no reason that you can't see a payback.

[wwest]

I don't know much about Lexus but most other first year cars are plagued with problems. MY RX400H has been trouble free for the 17,000 miles I have driven it. I picked up the GS450H last Saturday but I only have less than 40 miles on it because it came to SC from NY on a trailer hooked to the back of a Pensky truck. I loved the RX but the GS is much much better. Since you have more knowledge about Lexus I will take your word for it the Lexus isn't plagued by first year bugs, but I still feel it is better to wait a while to get a new model. I just have this feeling that GM is stirring up interest in a electric Volt type car while Toyota / Lexus is just sitting back and waiting for the right moment to announce their own version of the Volt. But in every instance I can recall where a new very desirable model comes out the supply is short and the dealers add thousands to the list price. That is why I think that June of 2011 will be the best time to trade in the old lease for something new.

PS I know there is no way there will ever be a break even or payback point on the added cost of the hybrid, and I don't believe global warming is cause by man, I just love cool new technology and the GS450H is the ultimate in cool.

No, the GS450h, as is the LS600h, and to a lesser extend the RXh and HH, or an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology insofar as global warming consciousness is concerned.

"..Ultimate in cool.."

Not by my standards.

[BobBass]

wwest, I've always been impressd with your auto-related knowledge, but....you're always "stirring the pot."

If silvercorvette can afford a vehicle in the GS450h category, give him credit for getting one that gets decent gas mileage, regardless of whether in YOUR opinion, it's "an absolute ABUSE of hybrid technology insofar as global warming consciousness is concerned."

I think that credit should generally be given to all the "hybrid owners" on this board.

[silvercorvette]

Obviously we have differing opinions about global warming. I don’t thing either one of us will change our differing opinions about global warming and debating the issue on this site may get us into debating non car related issues which may not be allowed on this forum. There are many reasons to own a hybrid and not every hybrid owner got one because of G/W issues. I don’t understand why it should matter to a person that does believe in G/W why someone made the choice to get a hybrid, the fact that someone is utilizing the technology regardless of motive should be reason enough to consider it a positive result. I liken the comment misuse of hybrid to something a misguided animal rights person may say in a situation where a person reveals that they gave up eating meat because of heart and cholesterol problems, but the made up animal rights person in the story gets upset because he didn’t give up eating meat to save animals. The bottom line is the regardless of reason or motive the end result is the same, in one case less animals are killed and in the other case a cleaner technology is used. In my opinion the end result is what matters the path to get there is unimportant.

But I don’t understand how utilizing cutting edge technology could in any way be abusing hybrid technology.

Prior to the RX400H I drove a 4 wheel drive high output V8 engine Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland that got half the MPGs. I needed a vehicle that would be able to carry a lot of stuff, sometimes large objects, perform well in snow, and would be large and comfortable so it would not aggravate my physical problems. The RX400H was able to do just about everything the Jeep did while consuming half [i was getting between 30 to 33 MPG around town with the RX, the Jeep got 12 to 14] the gas. I consider this to be a good thing. I don’t understand what you consider an abuse of hybrid technology, maybe you can explain. Be when you explain please keep in mind that people’s needs and requirements differ and although the Prius may be a great option for some people it won’t fulfill everyone’s needs.

In the past 3 years I have spent time living and owning houses in NY, TX and SC. I sold all my houses except for the one in SC so I no longer need a snow car and I don’t need to move around a lot of stuff so I got rid of the RX400H and replaced it with the GS450H. Again I needed something comfortable enough to drive for the two to three trips I make every year but wouldn’t aggravate my physical problems. I have tried driving a smaller car to see if wouldn’t bother me, but every time I rented a small car to drive 50 to 60 miles to the airport it bothered me. There is no way I could sit in a small car for over 1,600 miles [800+ miles to NY and 800+ miles back to SC].

I am not going to apologize for owning a car that has many features solely for the comfort of the driver because I got in injured while performing a sworn duty enforcing the law and keeping the public safe and there isn’t an hour of the day that doesn’t go by where I am not in constant pain. So if I can afford to own a car with a smoother ride, more comfortable seat I feel I have earned the right and paid for it with my blood so I am not going to worry about the abuse of hybrid technology.

So rather than abusing technology I am able to own a vehicle that is comfortable without burning as much gas as a normal luxury car.

[mrc88dal]

Obviously we have differing opinions about global warming. I don’t thing either one of us will change our differing opinions about global warming and debating the issue on this site may get us into debating non car related issues which may not be allowed on this forum. There are many reasons to own a hybrid and not every hybrid owner got one because of G/W issues. I don’t understand why it should matter to a person that does believe in G/W why someone made the choice to get a hybrid, the fact that someone is utilizing the technology regardless of motive should be reason enough to consider it a positive result.

I couldn't agree with you more. I personally feel the "jury's still out on GW" but chose the 400h for material reasons. Namely, I liked the performance, CVT transmission, fuel economy, and Toyota reliability. Were it not for those factors, there are other vehicles I would've considered. The end result is the same, motivations aside. I consume less fuel and pollute less than my last car, a Toyota Sequoia. I believe this is how hybrids must proceed. They must offer improvements besides fuel economy and low emissions. This will encourage drivers from from both "camps" to pursue Hybrid/Green technology. Perhaps Mr. West should step up and invest in Hybrid technology like the rest of us have. After all, this is the Hybrid Owners forum. Enjoy your GS!

[silvercorvette]

Obviously we have differing opinions about global warming. I don’t thing either one of us will change our differing opinions about global warming and debating the issue on this site may get us into debating non car related issues which may not be allowed on this forum. There are many reasons to own a hybrid and not every hybrid owner got one because of G/W issues. I don’t understand why it should matter to a person that does believe in G/W why someone made the choice to get a hybrid, the fact that someone is utilizing the technology regardless of motive should be reason enough to consider it a positive result.

I couldn't agree with you more. I personally feel the "jury's still out on GW" but chose the 400h for material reasons. Namely, I liked the performance, CVT transmission, fuel economy, and Toyota reliability. Were it not for those factors, there are other vehicles I would've considered. The end result is the same, motivations aside. I consume less fuel and pollute less than my last car, a Toyota Sequoia. I believe this is how hybrids must proceed. They must offer improvements besides fuel economy and low emissions. This will encourage drivers from from both "camps" to pursue Hybrid/Green technology. Perhaps Mr. West should step up and invest in Hybrid technology like the rest of us have. After all, this is the Hybrid Owners forum. Enjoy your GS!

I would like to thank you and others that contacted me via private message to support my statements.

I just topped off the tank in the GS yesterday so I can start keeping track of the mileage. At this point I honestly do not care about mileage because I have learned from my RX400H that new car MPG are meaningless. When I first got the RX I was getting somewhere in the low 20's around town and when I traded it in with 17,000 miles I was getting 30 to 33 MPG around town. I did wind up switching to "Mobile one synthetic oil" after the first free dealer oil change so I am not sure if Synthetic oil helped increase the MPG. I also use premium gas. Some people feel a higher octane gas does not matter but I read about a test some pilots preformed on vintage WW2 airplanes. They tried to duplicate the short take off distances [i think the short take offs were required for Doolittle mission know as the "Doolittle raid"] but they were unable to be duplicated due to the unavailability of gasoline with the same octane content. That bit of information convinces me that octane does matter.

I have been able to find gas stations in NY and here in SC that regularly sell their hi test gas for what regular grade is sold for in other stations so I feel that the extra cost of hi test gas is offset by the fast I am usually paying less for it than I would pay for the low grage stuff at more expensive stations.

[wwest]

Obviously we have differing opinions about global warming. I don’t thing either one of us will change our differing opinions about global warming and debating the issue on this site may get us into debating non car related issues which may not be allowed on this forum. There are many reasons to own a hybrid and not every hybrid owner got one because of G/W issues. I don’t understand why it should matter to a person that does believe in G/W why someone made the choice to get a hybrid, the fact that someone is utilizing the technology regardless of motive should be reason enough to consider it a positive result. I liken the comment misuse of hybrid to something a misguided animal rights person may say in a situation where a person reveals that they gave up eating meat because of heart and cholesterol problems, but the made up animal rights person in the story gets upset because he didn’t give up eating meat to save animals. The bottom line is the regardless of reason or motive the end result is the same, in one case less animals are killed and in the other case a cleaner technology is used. In my opinion the end result is what matters the path to get there is unimportant.

But I don’t understand how utilizing cutting edge technology could in any way be abusing hybrid technology.

Prior to the RX400H I drove a 4 wheel drive high output V8 engine Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland that got half the MPGs. I needed a vehicle that would be able to carry a lot of stuff, sometimes large objects, perform well in snow, and would be large and comfortable so it would not aggravate my physical problems. The RX400H was able to do just about everything the Jeep did while consuming half

[i was getting between 30 to 33 MPG around town with the RX, the Jeep got 12 to 14] the gas.

But wouldn't have been even nicer if that had been an RX225h and as much as 40 MPG in city stop and go traffic..?

I consider this to be a good thing. I don’t understand what you consider an abuse of hybrid technology, maybe you can explain. Be when you explain please keep in mind that people’s needs and requirements differ and although the Prius may be a great option for some people it won’t fulfill everyone’s needs.

In the past 3 years I have spent time living and owning houses in NY, TX and SC. I sold all my houses except for the one in SC so I no longer need a snow car and I don’t need to move around a lot of stuff so I got rid of the RX400H and replaced it with the GS450H. Again I needed something comfortable enough to drive for the two to three trips I make every year but wouldn’t aggravate my physical problems. I have tried driving a smaller car to see if wouldn’t bother me, but every time I rented a small car to drive 50 to 60 miles to the airport it bothered me. There is no way I could sit in a small car for over 1,600 miles [800+ miles to NY and 800+ miles back to SC].

I am not going to apologize for owning a car that has many features solely for the comfort of the driver

You can get all those "features" with a GS350......

because I got in injured while performing a sworn duty enforcing the law and keeping the public safe and there isn’t an hour of the day that doesn’t go by where I am not in constant pain.

So if I can afford to own a car with a smoother ride, more comfortable seat I feel I have earned the right and paid for it with my blood so I am not going to worry about the abuse of hybrid technology.

Other than 0-60MPH bragging rights what does a GS450h give you in luxury features, comfort, quietness, etc, that a GS350 would not..???

Or even better, a GS250h..??

So rather than abusing technology I am able to own a vehicle that is comfortable without burning as much gas as a normal luxury car.

"without burning as much gas as a normal luxury car."

Maybe my '92 LS400 isn't "normal" but with only 248HP it gets ~25 MPG hwy and has all the "luxury" appointments and conveniences I could wish or want for.

I owned a MY 2000 GS300 for a year or so and found it just as luxurious and "fun" to drive as most any car in that class.

Can you imagine the STELLAR FE that could be achieved by limiting the GSh's HP/torque equivalence to, say, 300..?? Or given the size/weight in relation to my 248HP LS400 why not a GS250h...??

Just what additional "thrill" do you get with a GS450h that you wouldn't have with a GS250h were it available...??

As you may have already noted "this" is a little like the "pot calling the kettle BLACK"..

But my '01 911/996 C4 was "purpose purchased", and that was NOT as a daily driver. It has just reached 20,000 miles and that includes 2500 miles on the Autobahn and two trips from the east coast to Seattle. But then while it is race track "qualified" it still gets ~25 MPG.

Can you tell us, would you mind telling us, the mixed and overall MPG for the GS450h..??

[SW03ES]

Everybody's getting tired of the "pot stirring" as Bob puts it wwest, knock it off.

Nobody here has to answer to you for their choices and we're all well aware of your disdain for the direction Lexus has gone with their hybrids. We've had to listen to it over...and over...and over again for many years.

[jrober]

"Definition = An Internet troll is someone who posts controversial and often irrelevant messages in an online community with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion"

Like I have said before, this troll doesn't own a hybrid and is only here to be disruptive.

[Robert Young]

Lexus mentioned "new hybrids" in the owners magazine, but I have not seen any more nformation other than perhaps Detroit / Chicago auto show introduction in early 2009. The key to the Chevy Volt mentioned earlier is the shift to Lion batteries vs NiMH. Even if the basic capability is not enhanced, the shift would allow a smaller / lighter battery pack and both of those attributes would be good. Industry reports are that Toyota is moving very carefully toward the Lion batteries, since they had a very good history with the reliability of the current technology and wouldn't want to screw something up that carries 8 yr / 100k mi type of warranties (especially in light of the exploding Sony batteries in laptop PCs, etc.). I'm somewhat in the same position, my wife needs a new car in 2009 and we haven't a clue which way to go. The RX models are intersting, but a lok of the technology / features are really old.

[silvercorvette]

Lexus mentioned "new hybrids" in the owners magazine, but I have not seen any more nformation other than perhaps Detroit / Chicago auto show introduction in early 2009. The key to the Chevy Volt mentioned earlier is the shift to Lion batteries vs NiMH. Even if the basic capability is not enhanced, the shift would allow a smaller / lighter battery pack and both of those attributes would be good. Industry reports are that Toyota is moving very carefully toward the Lion batteries, since they had a very good history with the reliability of the current technology and wouldn't want to screw something up that carries 8 yr / 100k mi type of warranties (especially in light of the exploding Sony batteries in laptop PCs, etc.). I'm somewhat in the same position, my wife needs a new car in 2009 and we haven't a clue which way to go. The RX models are intersting, but a lok of the technology / features are really old.

I'll start with the bad stuff first. I hated the day time running lights, but I "fixed them by pulling a wire under the hood. The NAV sucks, but I fixed it by installing a lock pick and buying a Garmin 7500. I still don't like the fact that you can only see names of songs when the car isn't moving but I listen to mostly talk radio and MP3s of old radio shows. As far as I was concerned the RX400h was as close to perfect as you can get I still loved the car when I traded in for the GS450H I now drive but I no longer needed an SUV. I had my RX for only 17,000 miles but those miles involved trips from Long Island NY to Houston TX and Anderson SC where I now live. The RX had a lot of room to haul my junk all over the country and to carry stuff from Home Depot and Lowes that I needed for my new house. The car is very comfortable on long trips. Some people complained about the narrow arm rest but they were just fine as far as I am concerned. I don't keep track of my MPGs but I have check it from time to tim and I was able to get 30 to 33 around town. The Jeep that the RX (my RX had the all wheel drive) replaced got 12 to 14 MPG. Aside from the Jeeps ability to handle deeper snow better the RX. I love the heat and hot weather so I don't use the A/C very much, but the A/C is powder by the hybrid battery and it will probably require the ICE to run longer and burn more gas to keep the hybrid charged up. I loved the RX when I got rid of it I just wanted something different and more sporty but if you have the desire to get a SUV the RX400H is an excellent choice.

[wwest]

I would sincerely appreciate it if the "powers that be" would now go ahead and ban me, so there is no "temptation", permanently from the LOC.

Please.

Enough is enough.

My current password is:

c210

Anyone, other than moderators, who feels I should not be allowed to post at LOC.....

[Gryphon]

OK, I'll chime in, perhaps because I don't know when to be quiet.

WWest, you have an extraordinarily good knowledge of many things related to cars, engines, designs, etc., and I for one would miss some of your posts. But I simply don't know why you feel the need to be confrontational in your numerous comments about hybrids.

Tom

[RX400h]

WWest, would you honestly go into a Porsche Cayenne forum and belittle its design because you didn't agree with the manufacturer about how they went about it? Do you really think that if you did do this, and the Cayenne owners knew you didn't even own a Cayenne, that you wouldn't generate animosity?

I don't care for Jeeps, but I wouldn't think of going into a Jeep forum to degrade them, mercilessly. Can you not understand this analogy?