Battery Issues

[novilla]

I noticed the interior lights were on in our new 400 the other night. I waited a while to see if they'd go out, they didn't. I finally figured out the rear hatch wasn't closed completely by the wife when she got home. If they had stayed on all night, I'm sure they would have drained the 12 volt battery which is apparently a real PITA. Guess it's up to us to make SURE all doors are completely closed or risk draining that battery overnight.

Don't all 400h rear hatches lock automaticly? As soon as we begin pulling it down ... it finishes the trip all by itself, if we haven't shut it all the way by hand . . . then, the auto latch can be heard engaging. Perhaps if the auto door open/close function is out of whack, you have an issue ... but otherwise?

Well, I haven't closed it manually myself, always just push the button, and then I hear/see the automatic system close/lock it. She apparently closed it manually, but not all the way, and the automatic system didn't finish the job. I'll have to verify this can be done but I think it can as she did it.

In any event, it appears we have to be diligent about making sure all the doors are closed all the way.

[NeoN]

After turning the car off, the battery should be at least 12-13 Volts. 11.4 is not good, perhaps something is drawing current that should not.

Any aftermarket alarms, stereo's installed.

Time to have the Lexus techs check it out.

hey im having the same problem, I've already drained my battery in the first week of ownership while tuning my amp that i had installed, anyone know the correct battery group for the rx400h? I wanna try and purchase an aftermarket deep cycle battery so I don't run into this problem again.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I can't recall the part number, but it's made by Optima, and it was designed for the Mazda Miata (sp?). It's not a simple swap out, unfortunately. The next trick is to change out the +/- terminals on the battery leads as I believe Toyota/Lexus deliberately used smaller than standard size posts . . . specifically so folks like you and I would have to go back to the dealer when you need a new battery.

[NeoN]

I can't recall the part number, but it's made by Optima, and it was designed for the Mazda Miata (sp?). It's not a simple swap out, unfortunately. The next trick is to change out the +/- terminals on the battery leads as I believe Toyota/Lexus deliberately used smaller than standard size posts . . . specifically so folks like you and I would have to go back to the dealer when you need a new battery.

are you kidding me? what a pain in the !Removed!, those *BLEEP*s. I did some research today, advanceautoparts.com came up with a group 51R yellow top optima battery only 450 CCA? What a weak battery in the first place but I'm surprised I can't get a decent upgrade for it, not too much room to expand either. I'll see what the shop has today when I go to buy the battery and i'll let everyone know how it works. ]

Someone stated on a previous post that the battery isn't a deep cycle and needs to be trickle charged, is this true? I've left my charger on 2amp slow charge all day and haven't seen any progress in 8 hours, im not sure of the exact voltage level of the battery but I can check when I get home, I hope it was accecpting my charge, considering its brand new! Anyone try a type 2 or 3 charge cycle? 2 or 3 is more deep cycle batteries for boats, etc...

I was honestly surprised my car just shut off when the battery died, no warning, nothing! I couldn't start it up, I was *BLEEP*ed the battery that came with the car is so pathetic, I wish there was room to upgrade.

Here is the chart for Optima Yellow top Batteries

MODEL NUMBER D34/78 D75/25 D34 D35 D51 & D51R

PERFORMANCE

Voltage 12v 12V 12v 12v 12v

Cold Cranking Amps @ 0F 750 650 750 650 500

Cranking Amps @ 32F 870 810 870 810 625

Reserve Capacity 120 98 120 98 70

Capacity (C/20 Rate) 55 48 55 48 41

Internal Resistance (ohms) .0028 .0030 .0028 .0030 .0046

PHYSICAL SPECS

Length 10" 9 5/16" 10" 9 5/16" 9 5/16"

Width 6 7/8" 6 13/16" 6 7/8" 6 13/16" 5 1/16"

Height 7 13/16" 7 5/8" 7 13/16" 7 5/8" 8 15/16"

Mimimum Weight (lbs) 43.5 37.8 42.9 36.4 26

Type Post/Terminal Dual SAE & GM Dual SAE & GM SAE Post SAE Post SAE Post

BCI Group 34/78 75/25 34 35 51 & 51R

[Gryphon]

As the Lexus roadside assistance technical person explained to me, the system actually shuts down before the ICE battery is really completely discharged, somehow to protect the drive battery. I'm not so sure that a larger or deep cycle battery will change the computer algorithm that controls this.

Tom

[NeoN]

As the Lexus roadside assistance technical person explained to me, the system actually shuts down before the ICE battery is really completely discharged, somehow to protect the drive battery. I'm not so sure that a larger or deep cycle battery will change the computer algorithm that controls this.

Tom

Update!!

Yesterday, I ventured into Advance Auto parts and purchased the Optima Group 51R Yellow Top Deep Cycle battery ($149), installed the battery in less than 5 mins and put everything back together. Installation was a breeze, I didn't have to change the posts like another member stated I would have had to do. The battery works fine, everything booted up OK, I had to re-initialize the windows, (can't use the drivers' 4-window control unit until you manually activate each windows' controls (eg. sit in the back seat and use the buttons back there 1 time- fully up and down). Then your window functions will now work properly from the drivers' controls. I'll let you guys know what happens down the road, if the battery ever dies again and if the battery charges up quickly if it does decide to die on me.

I believe the battery is listed at 500 CCA, and 650 CA (cranking amps @32 degrees)

Demand More from Your Vehicle?

The YellowTop is one of the only true dual-purpose batteries available. It is commonly used in any application that demands cranking power and heavy cycling. Trucks with winches, cars with high-demand audio systems, commercial trucks and equipment all rely on this battery to provide ultimate starting and deep cycle power.

Benefits and Applications:

* Dual-purpose

* Deep cycling and cranking power all packed into one battery.

* Longer life

* Lasts up to 2 times longer than traditional flat-plate batteries.

* More power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional lead-acid batteries.

* Higher reserve capacity

* Constant performance quality, which keeps your battery running at the same level even as it's being discharged.

* Optimal starting power

* More power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional lead-acid batteries.

* Longer shelf-life (lower self-discharge)

* Ideal for seasonal use, fully charged it can sit unused for up to 12 months at room temperature (or below) and still start a vehicle.

* Vibration resistance

* 15 times more resistant to vibration than traditional lead-acid batteries.

* Leak-proof

* Mountable in almost any position

What does everyone take of the "More power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional lead-acid batteries." Isn't our battery used just to start up the engine every 3 seconds? It doesn't run the P/S and A/C right?

[Jim Clark]

Interesting info, thanks for posting.

How does the Optima compare to the OEM batteries in cranking amps, etc? AND, does it matter?

I'm still somewhat confused about the electrical system in our cars. The "drive" batteries charge the starter battery? Is there no alternator? Apparently there's a generator powered by the gas engine to the front electric motor that provides charge to the "drive" batteries (and the regenerative braking thingy, I have NO idea how that works)?

Could someone provide a real simple non-engineer's explanation of our system? AND, is there a real benefit to a stronger starter battery? I can't imagine it would hurt.

[lenore]

I have read this thread, and I do not own the 400h but have all of you filed a complaint with Lexus of America? That is rediculous. You could be stranded in tim buk tu with that kind of problem. I am amazed how stupid Lexus is letting a luxuary car go on the market without a timeout on the lights so the battery wont discharge. So simple, God I am glad I dont own one of those. At least my RX300 starts in the morning with or without the dome lights on all night.

[BobBass]

It really is bizarre that Toyota doesn't have it together on this "interior lights left on" issue.

It was such a common occurrence with SiennaClub owners on their board that I made sure to have a portable battery jumper in ours when we left it at an airport parking lot "just in case." Well, as luck would have it, when my wife and I were scrambling around for something in the dark at 4:30 AM, she put the right side maplight on.

Neither one of us noticed that it had not been turned off when we exited the vehicle what with all the hoopla unloading the luggage and getting onboard the airport shuttle.

Of course, when we came home two weeks later, the battery was dead as a doornail. Siince I had the battery jumper in the trunk, it was a simple matter of hooking it up and turning the key - AFTER GETTING BLASTED BY THE HORN (alarm system triggers in this situation.)

Now, to be sure, this was our fault, but doggone it, this should not be an issue in ANY vehicle built today, let alone a Toyota!

Oh, one of the first things I purchased after the WeatherTech floor liners was another smaller portable battery jumper for the 400h "just in case...."

[Gryphon]

I have never heard of ISC calibration. Please explain?

Tom

Apparently if you disconnect the battery or the battery discharges too low you require going to the dealer to recalibrate your ECU. It is said that the ECU requires to be properly configured or else your vehicle initial mileage will suffer. The service rep seems clueless if you ask for "ISC calibration", and I cannot vouge for sure whether it is really required or not.

I read somewhere there is a TSB and procedure one can do to calibrate the ISC. I personally find it a little extreme in nature and have not attempted it myself more than once.

I did have the dealer "set" or "reset" my vehicle once when I disconnnected the battery and recharged it (unknowingly of course) and asked them about the "ISC calibration". I don't know if it was done or not, but whatever the mechanic did perform did return full functionality to all the individual "electronics" that would otherwise not work properly (i.e. the garage door opener, power windows, seat memory etc.).

Cheers,

MadloR

I ran this by my dealership's service manager yesterday and, not surprisingly, he said it was completely incorrect. Has anyone learned more about this TSB calibration?

Tom

[NY_RX400h_Savanah]

Well Supprise, Supprise-what do you think that they will admit what has been screwed up in the design stage. There used to be a pdf file of memo for Lexus technicians what to do and how to calibrate and had very clear info that calibration had to be performed every time aux battery was disconnected or discharged-used to because someone (definitely not associated with Lexus ;) ) erased it.

[LexRexBlue]

It was recommended that I disconnect my battery while we were away for over a month last summer. When we returned I reconnected everything but I couldn't control windows roof, etc. I called up the dealer who said they needed to restore the settings. They took me right away and I was out in 7 minutes. Of course no charge.

[RX400h]

As the Lexus roadside assistance technical person explained to me, the system actually shuts down before the ICE battery is really completely discharged, somehow to protect the drive battery. I'm not so sure that a larger or deep cycle battery will change the computer algorithm that controls this.

Tom

Update!!

Yesterday, I ventured into Advance Auto parts and purchased the Optima Group 51R Yellow Top Deep Cycle battery ($149), installed the battery in less than 5 mins and put everything back together. Installation was a breeze, I didn't have to change the posts like another member stated I would have had to do. The battery works fine, everything booted up OK, I had to re-initialize the windows, (can't use the drivers' 4-window control unit until you manually activate each windows' controls (eg. sit in the back seat and use the buttons back there 1 time- fully up and down). Then your window functions will now work properly from the drivers' controls. I'll let you guys know what happens down the road, if the battery ever dies again and if the battery charges up quickly if it does decide to die on me.

I believe the battery is listed at 500 CCA, and 650 CA (cranking amps @32 degrees)

Demand More from Your Vehicle?

The YellowTop is one of the only true dual-purpose batteries available. It is commonly used in any application that demands cranking power and heavy cycling. Trucks with winches, cars with high-demand audio systems, commercial trucks and equipment all rely on this battery to provide ultimate starting and deep cycle power.

Benefits and Applications:

* Dual-purpose

* Deep cycling and cranking power all packed into one battery.

* Longer life

* Lasts up to 2 times longer than traditional flat-plate batteries.

* More power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional lead-acid batteries.

* Higher reserve capacity

* Constant performance quality, which keeps your battery running at the same level even as it's being discharged.

* Optimal starting power

* More power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional lead-acid batteries.

* Longer shelf-life (lower self-discharge)

* Ideal for seasonal use, fully charged it can sit unused for up to 12 months at room temperature (or below) and still start a vehicle.

* Vibration resistance

* 15 times more resistant to vibration than traditional lead-acid batteries.

* Leak-proof

* Mountable in almost any position

What does everyone take of the "More power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional lead-acid batteries." Isn't our battery used just to start up the engine every 3 seconds? It doesn't run the P/S and A/C right?

The Yellow top is indeed a "Deep-Cycle" battery. It was designed for vehicles with heavy drain accessories, such as one or more very powerful amps, driving giant subwoofers. The disadvantage of a deep cycle battery is that on average, this type of battery will not last as long as a standard-charge AGM (absorbent glass mat) or lead acid battery. The same is true of our NiMH batteries. If we were to somehow deep-cycle them, as one would of camera batteries, their life would suffer. From what I've seen in many car forums, Yellow tops can last up to 4 years before needing to be replaced. According to Consumer Reports, the best battery out there right now is the Sears Platinum AGM battery, but at $180 each, they are not cheap!

[NeoN]

Picture of my new secondary battery setup waiting to go in!

Picture of my new Stinger SP800 dry cell battery (secondary) installed in the back along with the Stinger SR200 Relay battery isolator

Everything fits away nicely, giant jumper cables, fix a flat, my amp, a flashlight, etc.

Now you see it, now you don't!

[williz]

you can also use a Black&Decker BDV040 booster sold in the US as model BB7B. this saves the isolator diodes and you can easily check the booster's charging condition.

Black&Decker Battery Booster BB7B

it fits perfectly in front of the middle console and is fixed by moving the middle console to the most forward position.

If necessary the unit can be charged while driving by pressing the charge button. The led's show the charging condition.

If the RX400h's 12V battery is having less then 10V the power up sequence (starting) is not longer possible.

In this case you bring the ignition key to the radio position (in this position all 12V plugs are connected to the 12V system), make sure that all 12V devices are switched off, B&D BDV040 (BB7B) is connected to the 12V plug, switch the B&D on and press the vehicle boost button.

The voltage comes up to about 11,9V. Wait for 2-4 minutes and then turn the ignition key to the starting position and READY comes up.

[RX400h]

Nice!

[williz]

Nice!

yes nice but....

lexus UK came up with this:

I heard back from Lexus today. The Lexus quality engineers tested the Black and Decker mentioned before, and their verdict is that it is NOT APPROPRIATE as its output is too high. They haev no further suggestions at the moment, but the case is still open and they "are working on it".

I am off on a three week trip tomorrow - maybe it'll start on my return - fingers crossed. Ruth.

QUOTE(williz @ Jan 24 2008, 10:42 PM) *

QUOTE(rufels @ Jan 5 2008, 04:42 PM) *

Just reporting back:

Lexus thought the Black & Decker was a good idea, but have not reported on their tests. If they DO finally advise it, I think we should all get a free one. As mentioned previously, they eventually replaced my 12V battery a couple of months ago. I returned yesterday after 21 days abroad, and the car which had been standing outside, started with no problem. Perhaps I had had a dud battery all the time. I am still worried about leaving the car for a longer period - will have another chance to test it on my next longer vacation. When I hear from Lexus about the Black & Decker I will share this information. Ruth

[Robl45]

Hi,

My 2006 rx400H is at the dealership now becasue it decided to not start last night. They say its the battery. This is completely rediculous because

1. We had just driven 20 minutes to my mother in laws. We moved the car and it was fine, then it wouldn't start for the next 20 times, kept saying shift into park when we were already in park.

2. The battery gets charged. If the battery gets charged, and has never gotten deeply discharged, the battery shouldn't go dead.

3. Don't they replace the battery on certified preowned cars when you get them? OUrs is 1 year and 4 months since we got it.

Okay, was told they don't replace the battery on certified preowned cars and that the battery had a bad cell, I think this is BS personally.

4. Batteries don't die that quickly.

5. Its a hybrid, What the heck is that little battery doing? Basically flipping a relay so the big battery hooks up?

And finally, if its true and I believe it is true that the starter battery gets a low amp trickle charge, where the heck do you hook the aftermarket amps up to?

[Frustrated 400h]

Hi,

My 2006 rx400H is at the dealership now becasue it decided to not start last night. They say its the battery. This is completely rediculous because

1. We had just driven 20 minutes to my mother in laws. We moved the car and it was fine, then it wouldn't start for the next 20 times, kept saying shift into park when we were already in park.

2. The battery gets charged. If the battery gets charged, and has never gotten deeply discharged, the battery shouldn't go dead.

3. Don't they replace the battery on certified preowned cars when you get them? OUrs is 1 year and 4 months since we got it.

Okay, was told they don't replace the battery on certified preowned cars and that the battery had a bad cell, I think this is BS personally.

4. Batteries don't die that quickly.

5. Its a hybrid, What the heck is that little battery doing? Basically flipping a relay so the big battery hooks up?

And finally, if its true and I believe it is true that the starter battery gets a low amp trickle charge, where the heck do you hook the aftermarket amps up to?

I have read the UK and US Lexus Forums and others on line and am a frustrated new owner of a 2 year old 2006 400h. 3 months after I bought it (age 18 mo) it failed to start after being parked 2 weeks. After a 30 minute drive it failed the next day as well - so Lexus gave me a new battery - seemed like an odd solution. Then 3 months later it happened again, but this time after being on my driveway 2 days - super cold weather. But we were being very careful to make sure nothing is left on. Lexus service (who are pretty poor at talking to my non-tech wife) said we need to drive it longer. So much for fuel efficiency. Short trip - so drive around the block 10 times!

I can't see any fix on line, though there are many ideas none of which sound like a quality car. How shall we rise up and make the point to Lexus that this is not a car to own if you never know if its going to start. I am reassured to know others have the problem, but not all. So rather than fighting single battles with dealers, can't we get some group action? They must know what the fix is, like cut the 36ma drain on the battery when the car is locked (someone measured it)! Why aren't they acting - too expensive to have a recall? Not a safety issue? Surely an image issue. If we can't get a simple appropriate fix, do we take it to the court of public opinion?

[RX400h]

First of all, yes, there is a small percentage of batteries out there that are defective, either sooner or later. Look at ANY forum and you will find that this is true no matter who the manufacturer of the battery. A typical OEM battery should last at least 5 years and a vast majority of them do.

Secondly, you won't be able to get a class-action suit going if only .01% of all vehicles sold have a starting issue. You will find that some dealership techs are NOT the best troubleshooters. Do yourself a favor and go to another dealership. Not all technicians are the same. I'm not trying to minimize your issue; I know that it is frustrating, but I also know that what is a big ssue to one technician, is an easy fix for another. I've experienced this, first hand with other cars.

When you do get this thing fixed, please let us know. We are certainly curious, even though our own vehicles have not had this malady.

Dave

[skyfish400h]

My starter battery is slowly getting worse. I used to be able to listen to the radio for an hour without issue, but now after only 15 min it will start to cut out. If I'm lucky, and I catch it quickly, there is just enough juice to start the car so the hybrid battery can take over. If I'm not lucky, I'm stuck... and it's happened.

I was going to get the B&D, plug it into the 12V outlet in the back and just leave it on all the time (boost mode). But the reviews are really bad on Amazon and I've had issues with B&D products in the past.

What is wrong with just hooking an 18Ah SLA battery to the 12V outlet in the cargo area. It would provide substantial added capacity for when the 12V system is in use (ACC position) and it would get charged by the 12 outlet when the hybrid battery comes on line (READY position).

Am I missing something?

[skyfish400h]

After looking all over the internet for replacement batteries, it seems they are not easy to find.

The battery group is supposed to be 51R which is a 9.4Lx5.1Wx8.8H size with the Pos terminal on the R/H side (as viewed from the "front" of the battery, which is the side closest to the termials).

I measured the width in the car and that battery is indeed only 5.1W.

There are two aftermarked Gel Cell batteries that claim to be 51R in size but the dimensions they provide say the battery is 5.4 or 5.5W. These will not fit into the OEM battery holder. There does appear to be room enough for it if you were to buy a universal battery holder and swap it out.

Has anyone installed either the Powermaster D5100R or the SVR 50-12 battery in the RX400h?

Both of these claim 55-60Ah of capacity which is better than the Optima D51R at only 41Ah.

What is the OEM battery rated at? Does anyone know? AutoZone and the like only list the CCA which is pretty meaningless for the 400h. I'm interested in Ah so I can play the radio and not get stranded.

[Gryphon]

Sky, isn't the battery covered under your bumper to bumper warranty?

Tom

[skyfish400h]

Sky, isn't the battery covered under your bumper to bumper warranty?

Tom

That may be true, and may ulitmately be the answer... but I'm not satisfied with the OEM performance and all that Lexus will provide is another OEM battery.

As it stands, I'm not sure how bad things need to get before the battery would be replaced under warrentee. I'm sure if they tested it, it would pass since it still starts the car as long as I don't run it down doing "non-driving" things.

So what's fair. Am I allowed to enjoy my Lexus stereo for an hour or only 15 min before I need to start engine? How many times do I have to call AAA to jump start the Lexus 400h before the battery is deemed too weak? Or, do we just chalk that up to "user error", akin to running out of gas?

My point is that the undersized battery is a design flaw and the warrentee is not likely to fix that.

[katzjamr]

my starter battery is also getting hinky at 44000 miles, it tests ok but has little reserve. if i am waiting in a parking lot with the radio on, i now leave the ignition in the ready, (normal on position) with no other accesories running so i dont excessively discharge that tiny battery.