Does This Vehicle Look Familiar?

[RX400h]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070609/8.html

or if you can't see that link,

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/veracruz/trim/limited.aspx

I had to chuckle when I saw a review of this vehicle in our local paper. The author, a known Toyota basher, started his review of the Hyundai by writing:

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, until the copycat makes itself better than the original.

Of course, this is the same "Wheels editor" who proclaimed that the Honda Odyssey is superior to the Toyota Sienna, so I wasn't too surprised that he insinuated that this Hyundai is a better vehicle in some way to the Lexus RX350 (He didn't mention the RX400h, maybe because he is upset that Honda does not have anything that competes with it?).

The cost of the Veracruz - a mere $38,070. Somehow, I don't think that Lexus is too worried at this point!

[SW03ES]

I had to chuckle when I saw a review of this vehicle in our local paper. The author, a known Toyota basher, started his review of the Hyundai by writing:

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, until the copycat makes itself better than the original.

How do you think Lexus got started? They made a knockoff Mercedes, the LS400, packed it with features, power and quality Mercedes couldn't touch for a ton less and the rest is history. This is no different, Hyundai is making great cars. I would buy one of these before an RX350.

Of course, this is the same "Wheels editor" who proclaimed that the Honda Odyssey is superior to the Toyota Sienna

I think the Odyssey is 5 times the minivan the Sienna is.

The cost of the Veracruz - a mere $38,070. Somehow, I don't think that Lexus is too worried at this point!

They are worried, believe it. They should be too. Hyundai gets some cred with these vehicles, then rolls out a proper luxury division? Lexus will loose business to them no question.

[RX400h]

Steve,

You might want to read what Consumer Reports now says about the Odyssey and the Sienna. They rate the Sienna above the Odyssey for a a number of reasons - the Sienna is more reliable, quieter, and smoother riding, but I think its recent redesign is what boosted its rating as #1 again. I personally know four people who have Odysseys and who complain about squeeks and rattles, among other irritating issues.

But getting back to Hyundai, although they are getting better, their reliabilty is not up there with Lexus. By the way, the Veracruz is not available with NAV - a major mistake, IMO.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

If I recall corectly, seems like mitsubishi made Chevy Luv's . . . didn't they? And the Ford Courier? Wasn't that another outsource-mobile? Kind of a common practice to outsource, and it certainly does look like Toyota outsourced their rx here. Wouldn't surprise me at all, that if someone researched it, that's what they may very well find.

[Rx330driver]

the nav on the Hyundais are ariving end of this year...complete with back-up camera. lol

We had this discussion already in the general discussions area. I dont know what to think about Hyundai. A part of me says "bring it on" cause i dont think they will really be that popular. Ther other part of me is furious that people even would consider that car over a lexus. lol. But then the story goes that Lexus was once in that position so anything can happen.

Check out this "biased" article from motor trend: Veracruz against RX350. Veracruz won. However, it is biased in my opinion.

1) editors admit that Veracruz is NOT on the same level in fit and finish, quietness, does not have real wood trim, no nav, worse braking distance, weaker performance wise (except through schlalom sp?)

2) they "overlook" the poor braking distance of 5 feet more than the RX from 60-0 for some reason, giving them some slack.

so the only real difference here is the 3rd row seat, and perhaps a little better handling. Oh and the major component. The Price, which btw, they mention is only a 10K difference. But for that 10K you get the ML system, the NAV, the backup camera, real wood trim, adaptive lights etc.

So really the price difference isnt all that far away...no reason to buy the Hyundai. Reliability is a subject that we will have to investigate later.

http://hyundaimotors.com/images/asset_uplo...le728_15692.pdf

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

I just read up to find out if Toyota makes it and they don't? Wow. Hard to believe, its so similar. Well, it's not a hybrid ... shouldn't this thread (not that it matters, I guess) be among the non hybrid RX forrums?

[Rx330driver]

i would also add one small thing to my above post.

The new RX will be out next year and im sure it will kick Hyundai's !Removed!. lol. It will be 10 times better than the veracruz. Honestly, i dont think ive seen a single Veracruz on the streets yet...not sure if its even out yet i guess. So wouldnt it suck if the car didnt sell well? and Hyundai put all this engineering in, into its RX, oops I meant Veracruz? The company is on a very fragile state. They are taking big risks.

oh btw, it was a big mistake for Lexus to move the RX production here to Canada. Big mistake. A lot of people appreciate japanese made vehicles.

[SW03ES]

Steve,

You might want to read what Consumer Reports now says about the Odyssey and the Sienna. They rate the Sienna above the Odyssey for a a number of reasons - the Sienna is more reliable, quieter, and smoother riding, but I think its recent redesign is what boosted its rating as #1 again. I personally know four people who have Odysseys and who complain about squeeks and rattles, among other irritating issues.

No doubt the Sienna is a more refined car, but the Odyssey is much better looking and sportier. I'd still take the Odyssey.

But getting back to Hyundai, although they are getting better, their reliabilty is not up there with Lexus. By the way, the Veracruz is not available with NAV - a major mistake, IMO.

Just wait, give them time. Their quality increases exponentially every time they roll out a new model. Remember it doesn't compete with the RX350, it competes with the Highlander.

As for nav, Hyundai doesn't yet have a nav system, they're working on one though.

So really the price difference isnt all that far away...no reason to buy the Hyundai. Reliability is a subject that we will have to investigate later.

$10,000 might not be much money to you, but that is serious money to a family.

[Rx330driver]

i think everyone can agree that 10K is a lot of money for anyone.

...but if you figure out the additional options on the RX like the ones i mentioned. You should figure that Nav and ML is another $2,500. Adaptive lights bi xenon, about $500. read wood trim, X amount etc etc. Your seeing at maybe an additional 5K more than the Hyundai. That 5K is the Price of the lexus badge.

[RX400h]

As long as Toyota has vehicles built in Japan or Canada, there will always be a significant price difference when compared to vehicles built in Korea or China, but I believe that this fact will not bother Lexus shoppers.

The big difference when you compare companies "coming up the ladder" is that Toyota never started with poor quality, at least as far back as I can remember (early 70s in the US?). Hyundai's quality was HORRIBLE back in the 80s and for many people who were driving then, that reputaion cannot be erased with a long warranty. Look what happened to Mazda with their rotary engines from the 70s. To this day, the majority of people who know something about Mazda's rotaries have a bad impression of them and will not buy them.

The same holds true for Hyundais. Yes, they have improved quite a bit, but to many prospective buyers, the bad rep. Hyundai had earned is still omnipresent.

Also, I would bet that few people who are looking at a Lexus would cross-shop at the local Hyundai dealership - now and for some time to come.

Regarding in which forum this topic should be, I posted here primarily because of the striking visual similarity. Shouldn't there be a patent on a design? Can you imagine if Kia made a Ferarri look-alike? It would sell, but the reputation of the company as having innovative design would be destroyed, IMO.

[SW03ES]

The big difference when you compare companies "coming up the ladder" is that Toyota never started with poor quality, at least as far back as I can remember (early 70s in the US?).

Toyota had almost precisely the same issues to overcome as Hyundai has. Their original efforts in the US were cheap, tinny, and were only purchased as economy and fuel efficient options. The brand was regarded VERY poorly.

Give it time, in 10-15 years Hyundai will be right alongside of or ahead of Honda and Toyota.

[Rx330driver]

Give it time, in 10-15 years Hyundai will be right alongside of or ahead of Honda and Toyota.

i thought they were going after lexus ;)

[SW03ES]

Not their Hyundai division, if they're going after Lexus they'll need a luxury branded division which they're working on. The Hyundai brand is designed to compete with Toyota.

[RX400h]

I recall very clearly that Hyundai's reliability was SO horrible that they were almost forced out of the US market. This is a far cry from Toyota's first 5 years in the US. Yes, they were very light and tinny, but they did get excellent gas mileage for the time and were very reliable compared to cars like the Vega and Pinto.

Renault and Peugot had similar reliabilty issues and fled this country very quickly. If either one of these manufacturers were to re-enter the US, they'd surely face an uphill battle to compete head-tohead with Toyota or Honda.

[SW03ES]

Well Hyundai's market share has been steadily increasing and they're closing the gap pricewise with Honda & Toyota, so it must not be as big an issue with buyers as you think. I bet the warranty they offer helped with that.

[RX400h]

...without a doubt! Now, GM is trying the same thing.

[Rya]

When I bought my '04 RX330 last month, the vehicle I was comparing it to was a new Veracruz. The 10 year warranty was a benefit for the Hyundai plus I could have had a new vehicle compared to a 3 year old Lexus (the vehicles were the same price). But with the added features of the Lexus and it only had 13k miles, we chose the RX. I saw the first Veracruz on the road yesterday, wow, did the exterior look plain. I would have loved to have a new car again, but I love my RX and I'm verry happy with my desicion. However I really liked the blue interior trim lights in the Veracruz, very modern.

[RX400h]

Congratulations. You have to admit, though, that you feel better about telling someone you just bought a Lexus, instead of having to say you bought a Hyundai.

[gabep]

:whistles: Anyone want to buy a Yugo??