New Member; Need Advice

[BostonKiller]

Hello everyone,

I’m sort of shopping around for the new car. Realistically, I’m about a year away, but want to make sure I know beforehand everything I possibly can about the cars that I like.

My current ride is an 01 BMW 740i Sport. Terrific car, just terrific. Luxurious, fast, extremely smooth. The problem is, in about 16000 miles my warranty will run out. Keeping a high-maintenance car with almost 130000 miles on the odometer seems unreasonable at best. So, I started looking.

Audi A3 was the early favorite, until I realized it is a Golf-based econobox with a turbocharged 4-banger. Modern BMW do no appeal to me astatically, but I could probably force myself to get a 328i Coupe with a 6-speed manual transmission. Still ugly, but less so than the other new bimmers. However, when I look at Lexus IS350 almost everything seems right – muscular design, nicely done interior and lots of power. Yes, it’s small and lacks a manual gearbox, but how much space do you really need?

I stopped by the dealership to see if I can actually fit in. Indeed, coming from the 7-series the lack of space is shocking. But that is not to say that I won’t be comfortable. It just is going to be a little more snug. Not a big deal. I’m going to have a test-drive this Wednesday to see how this car handles.

But before, I was wondering if I could ask the actual owners (that’s you guys) a few questions:

1. Is $500 over invoice a good deal? The one that I want – DVD Navi+camera/Sport Package/Parking Sensors+XM Radio invoices for $38000. I downloaded the dealer price list (thanks for whoever posted it here - great find!), and the same car is roughly $35800. How low do dealers usually go?

2. Are these cars really FUN? I mean, my 740 is tremendous fun to drive, despite being a luxury barge. Is and IS350 the same way? Steering precision, grip, reflexes, brakes? How would you rate it?

3. Maintenance experience? How often do you go to the dealer? Is it expensive? How’s the overall experience?

4. Fuel economy? I am getting about 15-16mpg in my BMW and I was wondering if IS350 is any better if at all?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance!

[Rx330driver]

cant talk about the the IS350 specifically but i do own an IS300 and i presume them to be the same car really.

1) its almost impossible to find that car 500 over invoice. THe IS is a very hot car right now, and they are selling them way more than that. If you can get that, then snatch it up cause its a great deal.

2)brakes a touchy, but you get used to it, as is the acelerator pedal. ive never driven a bmw, which is "suppose" to be the ultimate driving machine but my IS is the sportiest most fun to drive car ive ever owned.

3)maintenance is set my lexus at every 5,000 miles or 7,500 miles if you dont run the car through hell. Its a little less than $150 for an oil change, which is all you really need. that an a 30 dollar air filter.

[bartkat]

Hello everyone,

I’m sort of shopping around for the new car. Realistically, I’m about a year away, but want to make sure I know beforehand everything I possibly can about the cars that I like.

My current ride is an 01 BMW 740i Sport. Terrific car, just terrific. Luxurious, fast, extremely smooth. The problem is, in about 16000 miles my warranty will run out. Keeping a high-maintenance car with almost 130000 miles on the odometer seems unreasonable at best. So, I started looking.

Audi A3 was the early favorite, until I realized it is a Golf-based econobox with a turbocharged 4-banger. Modern BMW do no appeal to me astatically, but I could probably force myself to get a 328i Coupe with a 6-speed manual transmission. Still ugly, but less so than the other new bimmers. However, when I look at Lexus IS350 almost everything seems right – muscular design, nicely done interior and lots of power. Yes, it’s small and lacks a manual gearbox, but how much space do you really need?

I stopped by the dealership to see if I can actually fit in. Indeed, coming from the 7-series the lack of space is shocking. But that is not to say that I won’t be comfortable. It just is going to be a little more snug. Not a big deal. I’m going to have a test-drive this Wednesday to see how this car handles.

But before, I was wondering if I could ask the actual owners (that’s you guys) a few questions:

1. Is $500 over invoice a good deal? The one that I want – DVD Navi+camera/Sport Package/Parking Sensors+XM Radio invoices for $38000. I downloaded the dealer price list (thanks for whoever posted it here - great find!), and the same car is roughly $35800. How low do dealers usually go?

2. Are these cars really FUN? I mean, my 740 is tremendous fun to drive, despite being a luxury barge. Is and IS350 the same way? Steering precision, grip, reflexes, brakes? How would you rate it?

3. Maintenance experience? How often do you go to the dealer? Is it expensive? How’s the overall experience?

4. Fuel economy? I am getting about 15-16mpg in my BMW and I was wondering if IS350 is any better if at all?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance!

1. $500 over invoice is a great deal, especially this time of year.

2. I bought the first IS350 that came in to the dealership in October of 2005. I've been loving it ever since. Some say the steering doesn't have enough "feel" but I find it very precise and quite controllable. Ride is a little firm but very good considering how well the car handles. The brakes are some of the best out there. I had a IS300 before and this is a great step up.

3. I talked to the dealer serive coordinator and it's ok to do my own checks and services up to the 24 months inspection. I have a private shop change the oil every 3000 miles and buy my oil, air and A/C filters online from Irontoad. I plan to have the dealer do the 24 month serivce except for the oil and filter. That will consist mostly of brake fluid and coolant changes. I expect that will cost around $200. Other than oil and filter changes there really isn't that much maintenance for the first 90000 miles.

4. I live in a small town and make mostly short trips and have been getting 20 MPG easily in this type of driving. On interstate trips I've gotten 26 MPG. So not bad for a 306 HP V-6.

[BostonKiller]

Thank you very much guys! Prompt and very useful.

It will be interesting to compare the IS to my bimmer (granted they are in different class, but the IS is supposed to be the BMW-killer).

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!

[Manolo1]

Audi A3 was the early favorite, until I realized it is a Golf-based econobox with a turbocharged 4-banger.

What is wrong with that? The Golf GTI has been praised unanimously by all "experts" and you can have it with the (also unanimously praised) best DSG gearbox in the car world...

The Golf is at a completely different level (FWD is the major issue here), but if I had not the resources to buy the IS the GTI will definitely be top in my list of alternatives.

The A3 is a great car but extravagantly overpriced... it really -almost- competes in price with a basic IS350....

If you find the 740 fun and fast, etc, you'll find the IS350 superior in all areas... it is a much newer design and nimbler/ faster than your 6 year old 740.

[BostonKiller]

If you find the 740 fun and fast, etc, you'll find the IS350 superior in all areas... it is a much newer design and nimbler/ faster than your 6 year old 740.

I hope I will. Fun to drive is very high on my list. However, the lack of space (well relative, compared to the 7-series) was a bit tough to take. We'll see.

I definately agree on the new design. The amount of tech features vastly surpasses 740 and it was a $70000+ car when new!

As far as the GTi or an A3...well, let's just say going to an IS350 after a 7-series would still feel like a step down; going to a VW after a 7-series would feel like a tremendous downgrade (although I completely agree on your comments about these cars and I like them a lot).

But I guess I am just shallow and superficial...

[Manolo1]

I hope I will. Fun to drive is very high on my list. However, the lack of space (well relative, compared to the 7-series) was a bit tough to take. We'll see.

====

The BMW 335 is substantially bigger inside than the IS350, even the coupe... and you may get a better trade in at a BMW dealer than at a Lexus dealer, who knows...

[BostonKiller]

The BMW 335 is substantially bigger inside than the IS350, even the coupe... and you may get a better trade in at a BMW dealer than at a Lexus dealer, who knows...

I won't be able to afford a 335i, it would have to be a 328i. And it would be slow, compared to the IS350. Also, I can't bring myself to like new BMWs at all. I'm a long-time fan, but the work of Chris Bangle (their head designer) had turned me away. And I really do like the way IS looks. And if I like the way it drives, who knows...

[nhman]

Boston, you are comparing a car designed in the mid-nineties to a platform that was just released. I have owned two BMW’s a 2002 530i and 2003 530i Sport w/ 5-speed. I now own a 07 IS350. If you are familiar with BMW’s, then you may recognize Dinan as a tuner. My 03 was modified to a Dinan S1. This included minor modifications to the engine but more importantly greatly improved the already good handling found in the sport models. While the 5-series is not quite on the level of a 7-series, it is not far.

I don’t have the ML sound system or laser controlled cruise control otherwise I have all of the bells & whistles. You can’t beat the availability and ease of use of the technology (Nav, sound system, Bluetooth, etc). The power is good but not until (roughly) 3500 rpm. Before taking a test drive, put the ECT switch in Power (pwr) mode. This setting is similar to the Sport mode found on BMW’s Steptronic transmissions. Handling and braking are very good but not great. The rear seats are a bit cramped. This could be a big deal if you have car seats or passengers with some size to them. Trunk space is what you would expect for a car this size. My wife drives a Volvo XC90 V8. So I have access to a vehicle should I need a bit more storage.

I have owned my IS since December 2006. It has been in the shop four times for a total of 10 days. Most of the service time was due to rattles or trim pieces coming lose. Several days were due to troubleshooting a hard starting problem. This battery was found to be the culprit. My 02 530i, after 32k miles, was in the shop once for a faulting sensor. No rattles and/or noises. My 03 530i, with 28k miles, was never in the shop. I now have 5k miles on the IS.

Overall, and am I not a Bimmer-head, the 03 530i was the best car that I have owned. Period! I only sold it because my wife couldn’t drive a manual transmission. This was a problem when I needed her car. I bought a 06 Infiniti M45 Sport. Great engine at low to mid-range speeds but I didn’t like the gearing. This car was geared for 0-90 mph runs. Also it was a very big feeling car. I wanted something fast and nimble. I did look at the 335i. Without question, this is a driver’s car. The IS lags behind the BMW when you look all of the components (engine, transmission, steering, seats, etc) factored into a driver’s car.

I picked the IS due to price (paid $39.5k), enough performance, technology and service. The BMW dealers only offered $1k off of MSRP. I wouldn’t say Lexus is problem free but their service is outstanding. My dealer has door-to-door pick-up and delivery. Take both for a test drive and come to your own conclusions.

Regards,

NHman

[lambobaby1218]

I got out of a 325i, manual transmission, for my first Lexus IS250. That BMW had 90,000 miles on it, and it just kept going and going, no rattles, interior problems. It was running out of warranty, and I wanted another car to replace it. However, by that time, BMW came out with the new model, which I think completely sucks, and so looked at Lexus the first weekend it came out.

My 2006 Lexus had the seatbelts replaced, due to recall, the handle above the passenger door replaced (due to my husband pulling on it, and it falling off into his hand), the rattle in the dash fixed, the A/C recirc was corrected, rearview mirror replaced due to excessive vibrations (no, I don't play my music that loud!!!), and probably some other things I can't think of offhand, besides the standard oil changes. But I did like the car, to be honest with you.

I traded it in for a 2007 IS250, which is why I've been really quiet in this board lately, because the problems seem somewhat fixed. Okay, I do have the slight rattle in the passenger side seatbelt section. I'm paranoid, I know. Other than that, the car is brilliant!! I am really loving it. I did look at a BMW 328i, with a cold weather package (love those heated seats), but BMW only offered me, like $18k on a trade-in, when KBB says it was $23k. We left laughing at them. Guess they didn't want a Lexus trade-in.

Service is great at a Lexus dealership. I was taking the BMW in every three months because of how much I drive, and paying $1,500 for whatever service they needed (this is before their maintenance thing they have now), no loaners. I had to pay for a rental car. Lexus gives you a loaner for basically whatever, even if it's just an oil change, for the day. Frankly, I just totally prefer the Lexus over the BMW, even with all the issues I've had. At least Lexus was able to fix them.

Now, after my long diatribe, I'm not driving my Lexus much. I went out and bought a Prius, of all things. I miss the Lexus!!! Okay, not so much after my 48 mpg I'm getting right now........

[BostonKiller]

NHman, lambobaby:

Excellent replies - thank you very much! Exactly what I was looking for from the beginning. It seems like the IS while not being totally problem-free is a actually a great everyday car.

I'll let you know how my test drive goes and what my impressions are.

[BostonKiller]

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!

Stopped by the Kearny Mesa Lexus in San Diego last night. Test-drive was agreed upon with a salesman who showed me the car the week before. So, I show up right before 7 and they tell me that they don't have anyone to ride with me and they are closing at 7 SHARP.

Come by tomorrow, the manager says, I'll find somebody to take you on a test-drive. Fine. After work I go striaght to the dealership. My salesman is delivering a car, so he turns me to some unpleasant gentelman, wearing thick glasses (nothing against glasses; I wear them myself). I tell the other salesman that I'm here for a test-drive and it's been agreed upon with the manager.

However, instead of the test-drive the guy basically tried to sell me the car he has on the lot (which has none of the equipment I want, which I told him right away) and said that if I'm not buying it, he can only let me take the car 'around the block'. I picked up my license, walked over to the manager and told him that this guy scrwed up the deal and I'm going over to the BMW dealership.

I mean, it's Lexus, for crying out loud! You're not supposed to be treated like a commodity.

[Manolo1]

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!

I mean, it's Lexus, for crying out loud! You're not supposed to be treated like a commodity.

There are incompetent people all over the place!

Sorry for that bad experience, I guess they are selling them so well that they have become arrogant... bad symptom...

Try another Lexus dealership if at all possible...

[BostonKiller]

Try another Lexus dealership if at all possible...

I will. Have tentative plans to stop by the Lexus dealership in Carlsbad (San Diego's North County) tomorrow morning. Supposedly their customer service and attitude is top-notch. However, I've heard that all Lexus delaerships are supposed to be that way. Apparently not.

In any case, if the Carlsbad dealership turns out to be the same way as Kearny Mesa one, I will abandon the idea of acquiring a Lexus. It's not worth to deal with arrogant salepeople who treat you like a minor annoyance, even if you show up dressed professionaly and driving a really nice car. Just not worth it. There are a lot of cars out there in the same price range and even though I really like the IS350, the dealership's attitude could easily be the breaking point.

[Manolo1]

Try another Lexus dealership if at all possible...

I will. Have tentative plans to stop by the Lexus dealership in Carlsbad (San Diego's North County) tomorrow morning. Supposedly their customer service and attitude is top-notch. However, I've heard that all Lexus delaerships are supposed to be that way. Apparently not.

In any case, if the Carlsbad dealership turns out to be the same way as Kearny Mesa one, I will abandon the idea of acquiring a Lexus. It's not worth to deal with arrogant salepeople who treat you like a minor annoyance, even if you show up dressed professionaly and driving a really nice car. Just not worth it. There are a lot of cars out there in the same price range and even though I really like the IS350, the dealership's attitude could easily be the breaking point.

Make sure you send an email to Lexus detailing your encounter with that dealership.

I guarantee you they will regret it!

[BostonKiller]

Make sure you send an email to Lexus detailing your encounter with that dealership.

I guarantee you they will regret it!

That idea did cross my mind. However, it's not the punihsment that I'm after. I just want to see if the car that I like to look at is also fun to drive. That's all. Is that too much to ask?

I was a bit annoyed by the dealership's conduct, but I'm not a vengeful guy. I'll stop another dealership (possibly tomorrow) and see if they are better...

[Sidney07]

Make sure you send an email to Lexus detailing your encounter with that dealership.

I guarantee you they will regret it!

That idea did cross my mind. However, it's not the punihsment that I'm after. I just want to see if the car that I like to look at is also fun to drive. That's all. Is that too much to ask?

I was a bit annoyed by the dealership's conduct, but I'm not a vengeful guy. I'll stop another dealership (possibly tomorrow) and see if they are better...

A BIT annoyed? That is just unacceptable. You are there to spend a load of cash on a car. Seems to me they sell their cars in spite of their service, not because of it. I suppose the best punishment is just to take your business elsewhere. Their loss.

IMHO, the car will in fact sell itself...let us know how the test drive goes.

[BostonKiller]

So, after fialing to get a Penske dealership to let me test-drive an IS350, I went to Carlsbad Lexus. It is a smaller outfit, the owner also has a Toyota dealership next door. The salesperson was extremely courteous and spent a lot of time talking about the car, making sure he mentions everything that separated it from the herd. In the end, they let me drive an IS350.

First off, he demonstrated a tight turning radius the IS has - not suprising really, considering how small it is. Than he spoke about the VDM and who effective it is in saving the driver from himself. He also spent a great deal of time bashing BMW, which I found poor taste, but hey they let me drive the car, so what the heck! We proceeded to swap places and I started my test-drive.

First off, the steering in tight turns does not return to the 'zero' position - you have to do it yourself. That seemed a bit weird. Also, the steering feel was nowhere near my 7's, neither was the feedback. However, I could not complain about the steering precision at all. All in all, I gotta say it lags a bit compared to the 335i sedan that I drove recently.

The brakes I had no problem with. They provide excellent feel and the stopping power is immense. Better than my 740i Sport and not as grabby as 335i. Althought, I suspect that 335i's stopping disctances are shorter. Car And Driver seems to agree with that observation.

Engine is what really makes the car. Below 3500rpm it is solid, but not spectacular. However, rev it past that mark and you are qiuckly approaching speeds that put you in jail. Flexibility is also excellent; engine seems to pull great everywhere in the rev range, with a solid push above the mentioned 3500rpm treshold. Comparing to 335i is difficult, since the bimmer engine has 2 turbochargers and exhibits a slight turbo lag. In any case, dynamically it did notice a great deal of difference between the IS350 and the 335i. Maybe a few tenths in acceleration (with the 3-series being faster), but not immediately apaprent.

Transmission is on par with the engine. The upshifts and downshifts are smooth and timely. In Sport mode you get that sense of extra urgency that is always welcome. Using paddle-shifters is a breeze. There is a slight delay when you do, so keep your foot on the accelerator; it seems to work better that way. 335i also has the paddle-shifters, but their design is downright weird and overall I like the IS's transmission better.

Handling is where 335i has an edge. However it does come at the expense of the ride quality. IS moves around a bit more in turns, but the ride quality is great for such a great car. Overall it is a much more comfortable car than the 335i.

Which brings me to the noise levels. I was very pleasantly suprised by the serenity in the Lexus' cabin. Almost as quiet as my 7-series and that is saying something. 335i has a lot more tire and wind noise intruding into the cabin.

Interior fit and finish is head-and-shoulders above the 3-series. Not only the plastics are better in quality, the way eveything is laid out is superior. Feels like a proper $40000 car, whereas the 3-series has a unfriendly and unwelcoming feel. The only two complaints are the interior door handles, which are maid out of cheep plastic and the plastic panels in front of the passenger - somewhat cheep and out of place. The features are vastly better than in the 3-series and even my 740i. You have your Bluetooth, excellent Navigation system with backup camera, iPod-connectivity, XM radio and of course who can forget about excellent heated-and-ventilated front seats.

I have to say than in direct comparison the IS350 wins against the BMW 335i (E90) and would be my preference. Not to mention that the BMW is using turbochargers and their engines are running insane oil temperatures, even with the oil coolers.

Here is how I evaluated the Lexus IS350 vs. the BMW335i:

Steering: 6/10 vs. 9/10

Brakes: 9/10 vs. 9/10

Engine: 10/10 vs. 9/10

Transmission: 10/10 vs. 9/10

Handling: 7/10 vs. 9/10

Ride Quality: 9/10 vs. 7/10

Comfort: 9/10 vs. 7/10

Interior: 10/10 vs. 5/10

Features: 10/10 vs. 5/10