Timing And Sepentine Belts

[PDT]

I purchased a 2001 LS430 8 months ago with 80K miles. It now has 90K miles and has driven great however, I don't know the maintenance history of the car. I was told at 90K miles I should replace the timing belt so I was planning to replace the serpentine belt also. The Toyota dealer quoted a price of $117 for the 2 belts from Lexus and $400 labor. My questions are 1) Is 90K miles the right time to do this 2) does the price seem reasonable and c) do you go ahead and replace the water pump also when you replace the timing belt. Thanks.

[92Lex]

1) Yes

2) Yes

3) Yes

[SKperformance]

Get them to check the condition of the belt before having it replaced by removing the cam cover.

[aggiecarpenter]

I recently purchased an LS which has similar mileage. I emailed a local shop in Dallas which is an exclusive Lexus repair shop - not a dealer. They told me that it does make sense just to replace the timing belt. Here is what he said

"Unless you are having a problem with your timing belt at 90,000 miles we recommend waiting until 100,000 miles. You also don’t want to just replace your belt. Here is what we replace when we do that job: Replace waterpump, timing belt, idler bearing, tensioner bearing, camshaft seals, crankshaft seal, thermostat, related o-rings and antifreeze. The price is $1200.00 + tx."

Hope this helps.

[PDT]

I recently purchased an LS which has similar mileage. I emailed a local shop in Dallas which is an exclusive Lexus repair shop - not a dealer. They told me that it does make sense just to replace the timing belt. Here is what he said

"Unless you are having a problem with your timing belt at 90,000 miles we recommend waiting until 100,000 miles. You also don’t want to just replace your belt. Here is what we replace when we do that job: Replace waterpump, timing belt, idler bearing, tensioner bearing, camshaft seals, crankshaft seal, thermostat, related o-rings and antifreeze. The price is $1200.00 + tx."

Hope this helps.

Thanks, that's very helpful

[oohryry]

I purchased a 2001 LS430 8 months ago with 80K miles. It now has 90K miles and has driven great however, I don't know the maintenance history of the car. I was told at 90K miles I should replace the timing belt so I was planning to replace the serpentine belt also. The Toyota dealer quoted a price of $117 for the 2 belts from Lexus and $400 labor. My questions are 1) Is 90K miles the right time to do this 2) does the price seem reasonable and c) do you go ahead and replace the water pump also when you replace the timing belt. Thanks.

Sounds like a great price to me. Usually, you want to change your water pump even if it doesn't show signs of problems just so that you wont have another labor bill between the next 90000 miles if something does go wrong with it. As for doing the service at 90000, that would be your call. I did mine at 110000, but that's just me, I figured they have to be made to go past 90000 miles if their scheduled to be changed every 90000 miles, but I don't recommend that you use my theory. My bill at Len Stoler Lexus was around 1375 for Timing Belt, Water Pump, Serp., Throttle Body Cleaning Fluid-(waste of time), and new master key. I couldn't find a side mech. to do it for $400.

[BogeyJH]

...As for doing the service at 90000, that would be your call. I did mine at 110000, but that's just me, I figured they have to be made to go past 90000 miles if their scheduled to be changed every 90000 miles, but I don't recommend that you use my theory...

I agree that the 90K interval is conservative. The records on my new-to-me 94 LS400 show the timing belt service at 125K. I think the previous owner was pushing it a bit, but no harm no foul. He took a chance I probably wouldn't take. However, I tend to agree that 100K is pretty safe.

[Lexus repair shop quote]

"Unless you are having a problem with your timing belt at 90,000 miles we recommend waiting until 100,000 miles. You also don’t want to just replace your belt. Here is what we replace when we do that job: Replace waterpump, timing belt, idler bearing, tensioner bearing, camshaft seals, crankshaft seal, thermostat, related o-rings and antifreeze. The price is $1200.00 + tx."

Hey Aggie,

Just curious, did he indicate the parts and labor costs separately? Although I'm far from needing to do this service as it has been only ~9K since it was done, I have a good side mechanic here in the Austin area who is very reasonable. I would just like to get a feel for the general parts/labor quotient.

[PDT]

...As for doing the service at 90000, that would be your call. I did mine at 110000, but that's just me, I figured they have to be made to go past 90000 miles if their scheduled to be changed every 90000 miles, but I don't recommend that you use my theory...

I agree that the 90K interval is conservative. The records on my new-to-me 94 LS400 show the timing belt service at 125K. I think the previous owner was pushing it a bit, but no harm no foul. He took a chance I probably wouldn't take. However, I tend to agree that 100K is pretty safe.

[Lexus repair shop quote]

"Unless you are having a problem with your timing belt at 90,000 miles we recommend waiting until 100,000 miles. You also don’t want to just replace your belt. Here is what we replace when we do that job: Replace waterpump, timing belt, idler bearing, tensioner bearing, camshaft seals, crankshaft seal, thermostat, related o-rings and antifreeze. The price is $1200.00 + tx."

Hey Aggie,

Just curious, did he indicate the parts and labor costs separately? Although I'm far from needing to do this service as it has been only ~9K since it was done, I have a good side mechanic here in the Austin area who is very reasonable. I would just like to get a feel for the general parts/labor quotient.

The qoute is $400 for labor, $57 for the timing belt and $61 for the serpentine belt. All the parts are coming from Lexus and the labor from the Toyota dealership.

[SRK]

One cannot complain about the high cost of repairs if one is inclined to replace parts that don't need replacing.

I figure I am a fairly good mechanic, but the dealer does the big stuff on my GS400. The mechanic there, whom I choose to do the work, is an EXCELLENT technician - when he speaks I listen. I had him do the T-belt on the Vvti engine and he replaced it and the serpentine. He didn't do the pump, or the idlers, or the seals, because they didn't need to be done. He inspected them. Total cost before taxes was under $600.00, and that's Canadian dollars, which are smaller..... He also repaired the starter when it failed - for $30.00 in parts because he fixed it, rather than replace it with a new one for $1200.00 or so. I mentioned that repair previously on this site, and no one seemed to notice.

I used to charge $120.00 parts and labour for a Volvo t-belt job. Made good money, kept customers happy. My competition in this town does three seals and the tensioner with the t-belt and charge full flat rate of 3.5 hours! That's 1/2 hour less than the flat rate on the GS engine. They charge over $400.00 for a Volvo T-belt. Many customers seem to think that's a good price. I wouldn't do that to my customers. Just because a new T-belt is installed doesn't mean the seals and the tensioner are about to blow up. And I charged one hour, when the flat rate is 1.5, because it only took me 15 minutes to do the job with air tools. Just how much money does one need to make on good customers?

I think that replacing parts "because we are there" borders, in some cases, on dishonesty. It's a tough call.

Years ago a customer brought me his 85 Buick full size wagon. The thing kept stalling near the end of the warm-up period, and it smelled of oil fumes most of the time. The dealer said he needed a new carburetor ($550.00) and valve cover gaskets ($300.00) installed. He brought the car to me for a second opinion. I turned the choke coil two notches tighter, and replaced a cracked PCV hose. Fixed it. That job didn't pay the rent that month, barely bought my lunch, but I had a devoted customer who brought me every job he had, and sent lots of new people my way, for years.

[aggiecarpenter]

...As for doing the service at 90000, that would be your call. I did mine at 110000, but that's just me, I figured they have to be made to go past 90000 miles if their scheduled to be changed every 90000 miles, but I don't recommend that you use my theory...

I agree that the 90K interval is conservative. The records on my new-to-me 94 LS400 show the timing belt service at 125K. I think the previous owner was pushing it a bit, but no harm no foul. He took a chance I probably wouldn't take. However, I tend to agree that 100K is pretty safe.

[Lexus repair shop quote]

"Unless you are having a problem with your timing belt at 90,000 miles we recommend waiting until 100,000 miles. You also don’t want to just replace your belt. Here is what we replace when we do that job: Replace waterpump, timing belt, idler bearing, tensioner bearing, camshaft seals, crankshaft seal, thermostat, related o-rings and antifreeze. The price is $1200.00 + tx."

Hey Aggie,

Just curious, did he indicate the parts and labor costs separately? Although I'm far from needing to do this service as it has been only ~9K since it was done, I have a good side mechanic here in the Austin area who is very reasonable. I would just like to get a feel for the general parts/labor quotient.

I am not sure how much the parts/labor breakdown was. I got some good referrals for this shop and trust what they say. As for the post regarding replacing parts that don't need replacing. The only part that is of considerable expense is the water pump and if any one else knows, this also will go out. It only makes sense to replace it now while they have everything off of the front of the engine and not 20,000 down the road. I would rather pay for it now than have my car overheat, have it towed to a shop, and pay for twice the labor than just doing it with the timing belt.

Just my two cents. Good luck with your Lex!

[SRK]

I am not sure how much the parts/labor breakdown was. I got some good referrals for this shop and trust what they say. As for the post regarding replacing parts that don't need replacing. The only part that is of considerable expense is the water pump and if any one else knows, this also will go out. It only makes sense to replace it now while they have everything off of the front of the engine and not 20,000 down the road. I would rather pay for it now than have my car overheat, have it towed to a shop, and pay for twice the labor than just doing it with the timing belt.

Just my two cents. Good luck with your Lex!

The water pump will go out. Just when is anybody's guess. I can tell you that it's service life is not related to the T-belts service life. But if you do the pump, do every idler bearing and every seal too. As long as the front of the engine is off, lift off the intake and rebuild the starter, and if you do that it's an easy job to fish the EGR pipe out of there and replace that too, because they go out. The power steering pump is easy to replace when doing the t-belt, and they do leak frequently, so install another PS pump too.

At that rate of repair, you'll be ready to buy a GM product, which may prove cheaper.

I bought two Lexus because they were reliable, not because I have to replace working parts to keep them reliable.

It's his money. He'll do as he pleases, as most do. That's simply my advice on the service is all.

[aggiecarpenter]

I am not sure how much the parts/labor breakdown was. I got some good referrals for this shop and trust what they say. As for the post regarding replacing parts that don't need replacing. The only part that is of considerable expense is the water pump and if any one else knows, this also will go out. It only makes sense to replace it now while they have everything off of the front of the engine and not 20,000 down the road. I would rather pay for it now than have my car overheat, have it towed to a shop, and pay for twice the labor than just doing it with the timing belt.

Just my two cents. Good luck with your Lex!

The water pump will go out. Just when is anybody's guess. I can tell you that it's service life is not related to the T-belts service life. But if you do the pump, do every idler bearing and every seal too. As long as the front of the engine is off, lift off the intake and rebuild the starter, and if you do that it's an easy job to fish the EGR pipe out of there and replace that too, because they go out. The power steering pump is easy to replace when doing the t-belt, and they do leak frequently, so install another PS pump too.

At that rate of repair, you'll be ready to buy a GM product, which may prove cheaper.

I bought two Lexus because they were reliable, not because I have to replace working parts to keep them reliable.

It's his money. He'll do as he pleases, as most do. That's simply my advice on the service is all.

I hope that made you feel better.

[wrpsuite]

So I called the dealer this morning and asked about a timing belt service.

My LS 400 has 180k on it and the last time the timing belt was changed was at 90k so I'm thinking it 's about time

Here is what the second service tech told me, now he is the one they transferred me to afer I asked a specific question. "what is included in the timing belt servic and how oftern should it be done"?

Every 60k

Timing Belt

Seprentine Belt

Fluids

Oil Filter

Rotate Tires

Air Filter

Cabin Filter

$1440 includiung tax

When I asked about the tensioners, seals water pump etc.. he said the ylook at them at the time and if needed will include for additonal parts and labor charge.

Does this sound right to any of you?

[larryp]

Sounds about right for a dealer. DIY and save about $1000. Did my TB, water pump, and idler pulleys (no seals) for about $360. I'd replace the water pump and idler pulleys if i were you. You've probably got original parts in there now. My water pump started leaking at 210K. Don't want to have to put her "under the knife" again anytime soon!

If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, i'd try to find a reputable independant repair shop and probably save a couple of hundred dollars.

[SRK]

I hope that made you feel better.

Show some respect newbie.

As to wrpsuite, if the engine does have 180k miles on it, and the pump has not been done, then a careful inspection for bearing play and any staining at the weep hole would be a sure sign it should be replaced.

[PDT]

Thanks for all of the feedback on my original question. The Toyota dealership replaced the timing belt, serp belt and the waterpump on my 01 LS430. Cost was $730 plus tax.

[Darrell J]

[i agree.. Doing it yourself always wins.. waterpumps go at about 90,000- 100,000 on their own.. just the facts of life... might as well replace all the other stuff since u got the hood up and the car will really run great... since ur getting tires rotate probably need an alignment also... perhaps a suspension check ....

Having a car is just great aint it?

[dnice1452]

I purchased a 2001 LS430 8 months ago with 80K miles. It now has 90K miles and has driven great however, I don't know the maintenance history of the car. I was told at 90K miles I should replace the timing belt so I was planning to replace the serpentine belt also. The Toyota dealer quoted a price of $117 for the 2 belts from Lexus and $400 labor. My questions are 1) Is 90K miles the right time to do this 2) does the price seem reasonable and c) do you go ahead and replace the water pump also when you replace the timing belt. Thanks.

The best thing to do besides replacing the timing belt is to also replace the timing belt tensioner, timing belt tensioner pulley, drive belt idler pulley, water pump, there is also a o-ring behind the water pump that needs to be replaced, the reason I suggest this is because once you open everything up all the parts have to come off, and if you replace them you wont have to go back in there again. (preventive matainance). The parts are costly but it will be worth it in the long shoot.