Ls350...?

[wwest]

Why can't we get Lexus to build an LS350 for those very interested in a new LS but also very put off by the 0-60 crowd over-coming the desire for FE? My 1992 LS has "only" 248 HP, but I have never noted any real shortcoming as a result.

How about, even, a smallish DFI V6 hybrid..?

Love, LOVE, the looks, all all other aspects of the new LS460, except for the HUGE engine.

And a hybrid LS600...??

Absolutely waste of time and engineering effort given the market size.

Put that same level of effort into a "fuel conscious" LS hybrid rather than extreme HP and multiply sales by hundreds, IMMHO.

[OmarG]

The LS350 might make sense in europe, but not here. The GS460 and LS350 would overlap. Although it would make sense to the consumer 0-60 in 7s is plenty fast (thats my estimation for the LS350) fuel economy wouldn't be much better. Even If the LS350 started at 55k most everyone would make the jump to the 460. 72 more horses for only 5 grand. Thats cheap.

Also I think the LS600h is designed to be almost a halo car with almost no compromise in fuel economy or performance. It will make people percive Lexus as a true rival to the germans. People also respect Lexus more just from the parking feature. Thats what they want. Lexus wants to be the new MB, the new world standard.

I would love to hear other opinions.

[Rx330driver]

well...theres one problem at the ls350. the original ls460 is not high enough, like a 500 s class, where they can split it to a 430. an LS350 just sounds pathetic and weak in my opinion. Once you hear about an LS460, theres no turning back. perhaps an LS430 with more horses, LS530 and then an LS650H

[SW03ES]

I agree. There is no demand for a large V6 car here, hence the very slow Acura RL sales and the fact that nobody's ever wanted V6 7 series or V6 S classes. Plus a lower model LS would devalue the model, which is something they're really trying to avoid. As for the LS600hL, its an image car its not designed to be a sales volume car. They're only going to sell 500 or so of them.

You have to start to realize wwest that you are beyond and atypical consumer. Nobody would buy a V6 LS, they don't buy V6 RLs and they didn't buy 735s or S350s either. Why do you think Benz did away with all but the S550 this year?

[nc211]

I agree with the boys..

In my opinion, the LS is a "Go Big, or Go Home" kind of car. The V6 is for the GS.

[wwest]

I made a brief sojourn into GS territory, a 2000 GS300., took me about a year and 8,000 miles to figure out my 92 LS400 was a much better "keeper". I know the LS400, and the GS300/400/430 is not its equal, not by any measure.

And just what would be wrong with a hydrid V6 based 2008 LSXXX?

It would likely outperform the new/current LS in all categories, especially so in FE.

Build it, they will come.....

[SW03ES]

I agree with you, the LS is heads and shoulders above the other models in the Lexus line...

and just what would be wrong with a hydrid V6 based 2008 LSXXX?

It would devalue the model. Lexus is trying to move the LS upmarket and make it REALLY compete with the 7 series and the S class. Adding a V6 sedan, even a hybrid V6 would be a move in conflict with that goal.

[OmarG]

As good as the V6 is, its still a V6 and Luxury Car buyers are enamored with v8's. Poor acura, i think they did good with the RL, but nobody knows or cares. One thing i don't understand is its and E Class/5-series/a6 competitor. All of them have v6's. Does nobody gives them flak becuase they offer v8's?

The LS is moving upmarket. I think they offer those exec packages so the car CAN be very expensive. Higher the price, the more prestige. I guess i dunno.

One thing i do think is MB should bring that 4.7/4.5 v8 into the S-class. They need to lower their base price for the S-class, and 0-60 in 6.5 is still plenty fast.

[anthonyiez]

luxury = V8 or more w/rwd. always has and always will.

the others have hit the nail on the head with the acura example. acura will never be considered a real luxury car as long as they stick with a v6.

[SW03ES]

One thing i don't understand is its and E Class/5-series/a6 competitor. All of them have v6's. Does nobody gives them flak becuase they offer v8's?

Exactly.

[wwest]

Is the Acura RL a failure due to the V6 or as a result of FWD?

Most people who have arrived at the "station", deep enough pockets to purchase an unscale luxury car, know full well the hazards of FWD on adverse roadbed conditions.

Lexus might be moving the LS series upscale but if they can't get enough of "us" to follow....

I rather prefer being a leader, NEVER a follower.

[OmarG]

the rl is AWD, standard

[SW03ES]

Is the Acura RL a failure due to the V6 or as a result of FWD?

A combination of both. I ask you then, where is the V6 S class? Why was it brought back and then dropped within 1 model year? Because nobody wanted it and it was hurting their model image.

Most people who have arrived at the "station", deep enough pockets to purchase an unscale luxury car, know full well the hazards of FWD on adverse roadbed conditions.

Lexus might be moving the LS series upscale but if they can't get enough of "us" to follow....

Since they've had steadily increasing sales and the LS is the number 1 car in its segment something like 6 years running despite a price increase EVERY year since 1990, and they have waiting lists up to 4 months long in some areas for the LS460, the most expensive LS ever, i think they've got it covered.

[Rx330driver]

yeah...that RL has that nifty "super handling all wheel drive"...with a name like that, god knows why it isnt selling well

also when it came out, critics said the suspension is horrible, basically what they say about the lexus. however, the acura doesnt have the other things lexus can fall back on like reliability and fit and finish reputation. If i were to pay for the RL, i might as well spring for something that is a little more eye catching

i saw a few S320's (?? i think thats the number)...it was just embarassing. Not only would you be driving the S class that is weaker, your basically telling everyone, i cant afford anything better and therefore will have to settle for the lowest S class model range. I know for some people like you, might not care about power, also like me, but still want everything else in the car, but as an outsider, thats what people will think. an average joe trying to be a wealthy businessman.

if they sold an LS460 that had the weaker engine but without anything on the list...id spring for that if it was a sum worth saving in the price

[lexuus]

yeah...that RL has that nifty "super handling all wheel drive"...with a name like that, god knows why it isnt selling well

also when it came out, critics said the suspension is horrible, basically what they say about the lexus. however, the acura doesnt have the other things lexus can fall back on like reliability and fit and finish reputation. If i were to pay for the RL, i might as well spring for something that is a little more eye catching

i saw a few S320's (?? i think thats the number)...it was just embarassing. Not only would you be driving the S class that is weaker, your basically telling everyone, i cant afford anything better and therefore will have to settle for the lowest S class model range. I know for some people like you, might not care about power, also like me, but still want everything else in the car, but as an outsider, thats what people will think. an average joe trying to be a wealthy businessman.

if they sold an LS460 that had the weaker engine but without anything on the list...id spring for that if it was a sum worth saving in the price

so is someone driving a GS or IS or a C class or E class saying that they cant afford anything better such as an LS or S class model? id call it bargain shopping. is there anyone who doesnt want the real deal for a cheaper price? i understand you opinion is that V6 S classes are embarrassing and i fully respect that.

[SW03ES]

I don't think they're emberassing, but they definately devalue the prestige of the model. Hence why Benz did away with everything but the 550, even the very popular S430...

[lexuus]

you bring up a valid point, however the higher the #, the more exclusive people believe the car to be. price-wise they need to get a S500 or S430 on the road otherwise base price is too high for the 550.

[Rx330driver]

i think it is purposely done so that the car is left for the elite if you will. which is why we (im assuming more regular joes) are left at a lexus forum complaining that its too expensive and is the pinnacle car that we would buy if we had the money

[SW03ES]

you bring up a valid point, however the higher the #, the more exclusive people believe the car to be. price-wise they need to get a S500 or S430 on the road otherwise base price is too high for the 550.

But how can you say that when Mercedes sells every S class it can put on the ground with almost no lot time? I have a colleague who waited 6 months (he bought a used S600 to drive while he was waiting) for a $115,000 S550. People who can't afford the S550 simply buy an E550, or a CLS, or something like that. I see a LOT of S550s on the road here, I saw a lot of them right after they hit the market. I have yet to see one LS460. Theres no denying it, the S550 may be expensive but people buy them.

Rx330 is right, the point is to have a model owners within the line aspire to own. I don't think thats a bad plan at all. Mercedes learned a hard lesson about the pitfalls of selling luxury cars for volume sales and it crippled their reputation.

The only thing I'm not so sure about is that whole "The S550 is the pinnacle car we'd buy if we had the money". I disagree with that. If you look at median incomes, the LS has always had a higher average buyer income than the S class. Personally, and I'm being honest here, I've always kinda wanted a Mercedes. However, if I could choose any sedan I wanted and it didn't cost me anything, I don't think *I* would choose an S550. I may have chosen one of the previous S500s, but the S550 honestly doesn't do all that much for me. I really do think I would choose an LS460. My father could afford an S600, but he's driven the LS for almost 10 years now. I had a conversation with my manager the other day about cars, she has a lot of money and she said and I quote "I would never want to have a Mercedes". They just don't do anything for her, she does however like my Lexus a lot when she rides in it.

Mercedes makes a very appealing and prestigious car, and I think they have some of the best brand prestige in the business, but to say *everyone* would buy one if they had the money is a bit off the mark.

[Rx330driver]

your right, that was an exageration. however, thats the image they want to give.

[wwest]

If SH-AWD is so SUPER, way does the owners manual say the tire chains can only be used on the front tires?

Super my A$$, just another patently unsafe FWD SUV.

[lexus411]

Same reason there isn't a Hybrid ES. Lexus believes by putting a 4 cylinder motor ina Lexus,it will hurt the image

[SW03ES]

If SH-AWD is so SUPER, way does the owners manual say the tire chains can only be used on the front tires?

Super my A$$, just another patently unsafe FWD SUV.

Its not designed for snow performance, its designed to enhance road performance. The RL isn't an SUV BTW, its a sedan.

Same reason there isn't a Hybrid ES. Lexus believes by putting a 4 cylinder motor ina Lexus,it will hurt the image

Precisely.

[wwest]

"It's not designed for snow performance..."

Someone should then advise Acura's marketing group as they are clearly misfocussing their marketing. That C4 off to your left doesn't exhibit any special AWD handling tendancies except beyond the limit anyone would dare take an RL in the normal course of driving.

[SW03ES]

Then don't buy one.