Changed Rotors

[Grandpa]

Well well well. I tackled my project of changing my rotor and brakes and of course I had a lot of help from LOC. I want to first thank you a couple of people. Jim (CUMAN) has generously offered to help me through this project. I gave him a couple of calls (Long Distance with 1-800-Call ATT so he gets to phone charge, just kididng) to help me through and he gave a bunch of advice. I would also thank leadfoot, he gave a bunch of tips and posts on the changing rotor post. You really taught me a lot about how my rotors and car works. Lastly, I gotta give it to Carl and his wonderful tutorial at LexLs.com I dont think I would know where to start. And also thank you to all that posted in the previous post.

Alright... lets take a look at the devastation that laid in my garage...

Without the rotor

Old and New Rotor

Old and New Brakes

New Rotor on

[Leadfoot]

Congratulations and well done, we knew you could do it!

Is it all stopping smooth? How were the rubber boots in the calipers?

Take it easy on them till you have done 100 miles or so and then you should be a very happy person for a long time to come.

[Grandpa]

i'll take a look at the boots once more.. but I think it's fine... thank you lead!

[Grandpa]

Err.... I can't manage to losen the 17mm bolts on my front caliper... those suckers are really tight.... any suggestions? my 1 foot long torque wrench isn't working well... I don't really want to refer to a box wrench + hammer.... if i do use box wrench + hammer, there's a possibility i can't strip the bolt right?

[Threadcutter]

Err.... I can't manage to losen the 17mm bolts on my front caliper... those suckers are really tight.... any suggestions? my 1 foot long torque wrench isn't working well... I don't really want to refer to a box wrench + hammer.... if i do use box wrench + hammer, there's a possibility i can't strip the bolt right?

Gramps:

Kroil or PB Blaster penetrating oil.......let it sit for a while, then.......

A Two Foot breaker bar, maybe even Two & a half or Three foot.

Yes, I'd avoid banging on it with a hammer......because it may turn a "Hex" into a "Cirlce"......Then you're really screwed.

[Grandpa]

Alright, i'll try that tomorrow... I also came across another problem... the two screws that hold the rotor on on my rear tire.... well they're striped -_-. Also why use a breaker bar over a 1 foot torque wrench? Also is Kroil and PB Blaster better than WD-40?

[akewlguy]

If your lucky like me to have a great mechanic... Its only 150 bucks for breaks and rotors on all four.

Good job saving a few hundred bucks.

[Grandpa]

Yeah... the PB Blaster isn't doing anything.... I'm stuck in a stumo >.< Any suggestions on how to remove the two 17mm bolts that hold the caliper on? Do pneumatic drills work good?

[LScott400]

I'm not sure what you have in mind for the drill, but it doesn't sound good.

Since you said "pneumatic" does this mean you have an air compressor/tools available? If so there are many strong air impact wrenches available. An additional pneumatic option is a bit/tool that fits fits into an air hammer or "zip gun". It comes in 3/8 or 1/2 drive and has a square section of shank that allows you to to put a wrench on the bit while hammering/vibrating with the gun. To see it click on this Link. Then click at left on Products. A menu will form on left, click on Tools. On the right click Misc Tools. Choose part number 88-1110 or 88-1112 and click View Selected Tool. I believe this company only sells through distributors, but if you call their 800# they will be able to direct you to one in your area.

For the stripped screws in your rotor, if the slots are not totally gone, they make a great tool called an impact driver. Set for right- or left-hand rotation and strike it with a hammer. The blow keeps the bit seated in the screw and the tool rotates under pressure. A couple of blows and the screw will turn out by hand. Easily available - click Here to see an example. (If you could find room to swing the hammer you could use this on the caliper bolts.)

Best wishes and don't give up on the PB Blaster. Keep dousing them numerous times at regular intervals and soak overnight or nights if you have the time.

[CUMan]

Grandpa, I had the same problem when I tried to remove the rotors on my 93 LS. It's really strange because I had no problem removing the rotors on my 94 ES. The rotors on the LS had been resurfaced once, and I assume the folks doing the reinstallation didn't torque the bolts properly.

I tried a breaker bar with a socket wrench, but when you are using a jack and/or jackstands, you just don't have enough space in the wheel well to get full benefit of the breaker bar. I also tried hammering on the wrench, but that didn't work either. I finally gave up and took it to the garage that I use for work beyond my capabilities. They put the car on their lift, raised it up, and then used a wrench and breaker bar to get the bolts loose. When a car is on a lift, there is plenty of room to use a long breaker bar.

Concerning your problem with removing the screws that hold the rotor on, I have also encountered this problem. These screws are oftentimes very difficult to remove. I have tried an impact driver as mentioned, and this sometimes works. If it doesn't, just get out your drill and drill off the heads of the screws. If you wish to replace the screws after you install the new rotors, get new ones at the dealership (or hardware store if you can find the right size). As has been mentioned before, I am not sure how critical these screws are. There were no holes for these screws on the rotors I now have on my LS and my ES, and I had not noticed any negative consequences.

Keep at it. You have made progress.

[Grandpa]

Well... my friend has an air compressor and I'm gunna see if his dad can help me loosen the bolts... in regards to the screws I might just drill a pilot hole and use a screw extractor. But I wonder what places will charge me JUST to losen the bolts, cause I don't need them to replace the rotor or brake pads for me lol. BUT this is my last resort... I rather DYI this since the rear rotor + brake pads were so easy to come off(in regards to the 17mm bolt) I am very aggrevated to see that the front ones are such a pest. In retrospect, I seriously doubt the PB works well.

[Threadcutter]

Alright, i'll try that tomorrow... I also came across another problem... the two screws that hold the rotor on on my rear tire.... well they're striped -_-. Also why use a breaker bar over a 1 foot torque wrench? Also is Kroil and PB Blaster better than WD-40?

Gramps:

You should never, ever overload a torque wrench, particularly the expen$ive ones. They are factory calibrated. If you apply torque that is significantly greater than the setting on the wrench, it can destroy the calibration and will probably permantly damage the wrench.

If you want to "reef" on something, put the torque wrench away & get out a breaker bar. If you don't have a breaker bar, Sears has them in a number of different sizes. When you need one, they are VERY handy to have. There are very few feelings as satisfying as freeing up a 22mm bolt with a 36" breaker bar..........It's a piece of cake. That's where Kroil or PB Blaster come in also...........

I've got an Armstrong torque wrench that's worth about $400.00 (I paid significantly less) that only comes out for "special occasions". I don't use either the torque wrench or breaker bar(s) often, but they are a godsend when needed.

[ragabnh]

I just did my front rotors and breaks and I am a beginner. I bought the breaker bar 1/2" from Wal-mart for $14 and set of sockets that fit the breaker bar bit size for another $14.

When you losen the 17mm bolts turn the steering wheel all the way to the direction that will make your breaker bar usable and not interefering with the body of the car. You can use a 3/4" pvc pipe around the breaker bar stem to give you extra leverage by lengthening the stem. It should be easy to remove that way.

good luck. :)

[akewlguy]

Holy crap. Thank god I did not do this job.

All I can say if it is this challening for you I would have used the crowbar on my car.

For 150 bucks I got one hell of a deal. Gramps... My LS is a 93 and the paint was factory, but it does have a nice wax job

[Grandpa]

Well i just took it up to NTB tires and they loosened it for free... the rest I just did my self... thanks for all the input guys.

[LScott400]

Excellent!

[i928]

Does anyone put new screws after installing rotors. My front rotors does not have screws, mechanic said "it is not needed". mechanic installed new rotors, and Front End Shakes When Braking. I wonder whether it is caused by missing screws.

Thanks!

[lexus400]

I retapped mine (had to drill out the old ones) so I could install new ones. There have been theories that if the wheel has the slightest bit of play (wheel to hub) that the rotor could move ever so slightly.

I would tap them out and put in new ones, only takes about 10 mins a side. I don't think that's the source of your shaking though. If the rotors are true, could be tie rod ends causing the shaking.

[Leadfoot]

Does anyone put new screws after installing rotors. My front rotors does not have screws, mechanic said "it is not needed". mechanic installed new rotors, and Front End Shakes When Braking. I wonder whether it is caused by missing screws.

Thanks!

I put new screws in mine when I did the rotors. The manual says to use at least three lugnuts to center the disc on the hub, then hold it in place with the screws. You could easily take off the wheel and look at the position of the disc holes in relation to the wheel nut studs. My new rotors could be moved around alot, although I don't know how much of an unbalancing effect this deviation would cause. Heck I might go and unbalance them just to find out!

I can gaurantee that toyota do not put in parts that are not needed, the japanese engineers do not think like that!

[LScott400]

i928,

The rotor is pinched tight between the hub and the wheel when the lugnuts are tightened, so the rotor is not moving due to lack of screws (most cars don't use screws which is why the tech probably said you don't need them.)

Did the shake start when the new rotors were installed? Replacement rotors are not always stored flat, so they may have some runout in them even though they are new. The best way to determine if the rotors are causing your shake is to measure the rotor's Runout. And more than you ever cared to know about rotor Resurfacing.

[i928]

i928,

The rotor is pinched tight between the hub and the wheel when the lugnuts are tightened, so the rotor is not moving due to lack of screws (most cars don't use screws which is why the tech probably said you don't need them.)

Did the shake start when the new rotors were installed? Replacement rotors are not always stored flat, so they may have some runout in them even though they are new. The best way to determine if the rotors are causing your shake is to measure the rotor's Runout. And more than you ever cared to know about rotor Resurfacing.

LScott400

Thanks for the information. My car shaked with old rotors, mechanic thought it is due to rotor problems. After he put in new rotor, it is better, but still unbalanced.

Thanks! lexus400

I will ask mechanic to check whether it is tie rod ends problems. I did not send my car to the Lexus dealer to fix shaking problems. It would be nice to get experts opinions from this forum, so I can provide more information to my mechanic. :)

[jc19907]

Folks,

I'm a former golf course/farm mechanic and can lend you some helpful advice on breaking difficult bolts and nuts.

Purchase a small propane torch and heat up the housing for the bolt or the nut your going to break either. Obviously, do this with caution around plastic, bearings, seals, bushings etc. etc. You may have to heat it for a minute or so until the steal gets a little red. The heat will cause expansion and this has never failed me as a last resort. I've always used a cutting torch with Acetyline and Oxygen, but propane should get toasty enough to do it.

For smaller stuff you could even try and charcoal grill lighter - those new ones don't have the flicker flame, but more of a torch flame.

Hope this is helful, because I've tried to break a many nuts only to have my hands slip - knuckles busted, bruised - wrenches and pipes flying. If a pipe/wrench combo won't work with reasonable force - try the above.

[Grandpa]

Well... when I put my new rotors on in my front and didn't put the screws in(cause they were pretty stripped) i got a screeching noise after about 10 minutes of driving.... i went back and decided to put my old screws back in and the screeching stopped... i don't know if the screws helped stop the screech, but the screws did help hold the rotor in place when I was putting my tire on and that's what the purpose of the screws are for

[ayan]

Hhhmmmm.....this may be a bit off topic, but speaking of brakes and rotors......any opinions about using ceramic brakes? Any opinions about replacing the original factory rotors with slotted rotors instead? Is this recommended?

Thanks.

[Grandpa]

When you go with ceramic brake pads, they'll be a bit more expensive... I'm not too sure on the difference, but I hear ceramic pads are better at creating friction and they have good high temp wear and tear. Slotted rotors are designed to create slots throughout your rotor at a specific angle that help the brakes "grip" better and helps "drain" the water during wet weather.... All i did was go with ceramic rotors and OEM rotors cause I saw no point in dishing the extra $$ for slots b/c some people say that there really isn't much of a difference.