Nitrogen For Your Tires

[SKperformance]

It should cost the most $20 for all 4 to be purged and filled,then most shops will top it up for free after.

I had mine done at a local tire shop for $20 Canadian. Costco actually does it for free. Some of them say you need to have a service to have the car lifter(i.e. oil change) but it is not needed .

It should be done atleast 3 times ,meaning they remove the valve pin and let all the air out then fill with nitrogen ,then let that out and refill again with nitro then let it out and finally refill with nitrogen to have a higher % of nitro than air that remains in the tire. Some machines will actually purge 3 or more times automatically once connected.

Here is what you really want to know though.

I find the smoothness of the ride to be night and day considering no other changes where made but the gas in the tires.

It rides quieter by far especially with my 20's. Expansion joints and other oddities in road surface have diminished in sound and feel by atleast 60%. The bumps are no longer as harsh feeling in the suspension and steering. It also seems to reduce the rolling resistance which should start to show me an increase in mileage which i will have to wait for before i can make a full assumption.

It is a great increase in ride comfort that i would consider it like riding on my 18's with air compared to how my 20's felt with air.

Esfx8

[LEXIRX330]

It should cost the most $20 for all 4 to be purged and filled,then most shops will top it up for free after.

I had mine done at a local tire shop for $20 Canadian. Costco actually does it for free. Some of them say you need to have a service to have the car lifter(i.e. oil change) but it is not needed .

It should be done atleast 3 times ,meaning they remove the valve pin and let all the air out then fill with nitrogen ,then let that out and refill again with nitro then let it out and finally refill with nitrogen to have a higher % of nitro than air that remains in the tire. Some machines will actually purge 3 or more times automatically once connected.

Here is what you really want to know though.

I find the smoothness of the ride to be night and day considering no other changes where made but the gas in the tires.

It rides quieter by far especially with my 20's. Expansion joints and other oddities in road surface have diminished in sound and feel by atleast 60%. The bumps are no longer as harsh feeling in the suspension and steering. It also seems to reduce the rolling resistance which should start to show me an increase in mileage which i will have to wait for before i can make a full assumption.

It is a great increase in ride comfort that i would consider it like riding on my 18's with air compared to how my 20's felt with air.

I also heard that this can give you better...MPG!!! :D

Have you noticed anything???

[SKperformance]

It also seems to reduce the rolling resistance which should start to show me an increase in mileage which i will have to wait for before i can make a full assumption.

It is a great increase in ride comfort that i would consider it like riding on my 18's with air compared to how my 20's felt with air.

I also heard that this can give you better...MPG!!! :D

Have you noticed anything???

[SW03ES]

I think this is just a mental thing. There have been no quantitive differences found in the performance of a vehicle in any way due to nitrogen being put in the tires.

I have Nitrogen in mine from Costco, rides the same as other ES' I've driven. I think its just a gimmick.

[dcfish]

I think this is just a mental thing. There have been no quantitive differences found in the performance of a vehicle in any way due to nitrogen being put in the tires.

I have Nitrogen in mine from Costco, rides the same as other ES' I've driven. I think its just a gimmick.

The density of nitrogen compared to oxygen makes the difference. No gimmick.

SK, What facts made you decide to change to nitrogen ?

[LEXIRX330]

I think this is just a mental thing. There have been no quantitive differences found in the performance of a vehicle in any way due to nitrogen being put in the tires.

I have Nitrogen in mine from Costco, rides the same as other ES' I've driven. I think its just a gimmick.

The density of nitrogen compared to oxygen makes the difference. No gimmick.

SK, What facts made you decide to change to nitrogen ?

Hey welcome back DC!!! :D :D :D :D

I don't know but this looks like it will save some money!!!

http://www.getnitrogen.org/sub.php?view=cheaper

[dcfish]

I think this is just a mental thing. There have been no quantitive differences found in the performance of a vehicle in any way due to nitrogen being put in the tires.

I have Nitrogen in mine from Costco, rides the same as other ES' I've driven. I think its just a gimmick.

The density of nitrogen compared to oxygen makes the difference. No gimmick.

SK, What facts made you decide to change to nitrogen ?

Hey welcome back DC!!! :D :D :D :D

I don't know but this looks like it will save some money!!!

http://www.getnitrogen.org/sub.php?view=cheaper

Thanx LEXIRX330, Vacation was a blast, Cruised the lex to no end, Drank and dined like a king B) I'll be around for a longggg time. I am thinking about going nitro, Need to find a shop in my area.

[LEXIRX330]

I think this is just a mental thing. There have been no quantitive differences found in the performance of a vehicle in any way due to nitrogen being put in the tires.

I have Nitrogen in mine from Costco, rides the same as other ES' I've driven. I think its just a gimmick.

The density of nitrogen compared to oxygen makes the difference. No gimmick.

SK, What facts made you decide to change to nitrogen ?

Hey welcome back DC!!! :D :D :D :D

I don't know but this looks like it will save some money!!!

http://www.getnitrogen.org/sub.php?view=cheaper

Thanx LEXIRX330, Vacation was a blast, Cruised the lex to no end, Drank and dined like a king B) I'll be around for a longggg time. I am thinking about going nitro, Need to find a shop in my area.

No shops around me! :( :( :cries:

[SKperformance]

Air is already

Nitrogen N2 78.084%

Oxygen O2 20.947%

Argon Ar 0.934%

Carbon Dioxide CO2 0.033%

which equals 99.998%

So they are only refining it to a higher percentage.

The basis i used to switch to nitrogen was a practical one based on reported facts as well as to evaluate it in my personal environment.

It is supposed to lower heat transfer

lower rolling resistance

less air loss

less variations from heat/cold to psi

increased tire life

increased tread life

increased gas mileage

Air oxidizes the rubber where as nitrogen does not how does this help?

Well combined with UV tires tend to crack especially if not driven on and sitting in the sun as it bakes them. Also you need to drive on a tire to redistribute the silicon to keep the rubber soft and permeable.

Larger molecules that do not escape through the rubber itself as they are larger than oxygen so this keeps the rubber from drying out as well.

This combined with it running cooler than air keeps the rolling resistance down and increases the tire tread life and increases mileage per gallon.

Now here is the key ! Many shops may do it but don;t have a clue on what they are doing. It may seem simple but if it is not purged atleast a few times you will not get a high purity of nitrogen. Which can be why you don't notice a difference in some cars . It needs to filled and drained 3 time to get a good %.

As it is more dense it behaves differently from other gases ,compare helium over your vocal cords how it changes the sound. Well this is what it has done to mine as well . As road bumps and cracks do not resonate the way they used to . The car feels like it is floating smoother down the road with less effort on the gas.

Hey, is it in my head? I don't think so but i have yet to be able to come to any solid conclusions on the gas usage. So far it has gone form 12.9l/100km to 12.6/100km average in 200km city driving that i have done.

I wait to see.................

[SW03ES]

But here is the question, when is the last time you threw out tires because they were cracked or dry rotted? When was the last time you threw out rims because they were corroded on the interior? These things are just not issues with modern tires on modern wheels. My tires were filled with nitrogen BRAND NEW from Costco, they never had air in them. I don't see any difference in ride quality or noise from other ES's with the same tires, nor have I seen any increase in gas mileage because of the new tires OR the nitrogen. If it does make a difference, its a very small difference and not one worth paying $1 for.

You make the point yourself, air is already 78% nitrogen, so you really think replacing that other 22% with nitrogen makes this huge difference? And if they don't purge them three times the nitrogen might be, what 98% only? So that 2% makes that huge a difference? Remember even if you only clear 90% of the air out by deflating the tire, only 22% of that remaining 10% isn't nitrogen anyways! So, after draining the air and inflating with nitrogen there MIGHT be what, 2.2% left thats not nitrogen? And that is so important it needs to be purged 3 times or you might not reap the rewards of nitrogen? Thats crazy talk.

So the density is different like dcfish says, so you should be able to get the same result as this wonderful way nitrogen drives by changing your PSI! "the density of nitrogen vs oxygen is what makes the difference" Come on, remember that oxygen is only 21% of the composition of air! So its the density of this 21% that makes this ENORMOUS difference in ride, smoothness, the life of your tires, and your fuel mileage? Makes no sense.

In truck fleets, airplanes, race vehicles etc there's a difference, in your own personal car I doubt it. If its free, go for it but if you have to pay for it you might as well buy some Z Max fuel additive or one of those Tornado things for your air intake, you'll get the same benefit which is not much.

[dcfish]

But here is the question, when is the last time you threw out tires because they were cracked or dry rotted? When was the last time you threw out rims because they were corroded on the interior? These things are just not issues with modern tires on modern wheels. My tires were filled with nitrogen BRAND NEW from Costco, they never had air in them. I don't see any difference in ride quality or noise from other ES's with the same tires, nor have I seen any increase in gas mileage because of the new tires OR the nitrogen. If it does make a difference, its a very small difference and not one worth paying $1 for.

You make the point yourself, air is already 78% nitrogen, so you really think replacing that other 22% with nitrogen makes this huge difference? And if they don't purge them three times the nitrogen might be, what 98% only? So that 2% makes that huge a difference? Remember even if you only clear 90% of the air out by deflating the tire, only 22% of that remaining 10% isn't nitrogen anyways! So, after draining the air and inflating with nitrogen there MIGHT be what, 2.2% left thats not nitrogen? And that is so important it needs to be purged 3 times or you might not reap the rewards of nitrogen? Thats crazy talk.

So the density is different like dcfish says, so you should be able to get the same result as this wonderful way nitrogen drives by changing your PSI! "the density of nitrogen vs oxygen is what makes the difference" Come on, remember that oxygen is only 21% of the composition of air! So its the density of this 21% that makes this ENORMOUS difference in ride, smoothness, the life of your tires, and your fuel mileage? Makes no sense.

In truck fleets, airplanes, race vehicles etc there's a difference, in your own personal car I doubt it. If its free, go for it but if you have to pay for it you might as well buy some Z Max fuel additive or one of those Tornado things for your air intake, you'll get the same benefit which is not much.

I'll wait for a full report from SK. ;)

[SW03ES]

Here is an article that shows my position better than I can:

This looks like a resurfacing of a trend I learned about in general chemistry. Apparently some years ago busineseswere trying to sell this kind of stuff on two claims: one, that nitrogen filled tired deflate at a slower rate, and two, that in an accident, a punctured tire filled with nitrogen is safer somehow than normal air (something to do with fires). What I learned in chemistry is that both of these claims are bogus. Total marketing bull*BLEEP* preying on the ignorance of the usual consumer. Now it appears these same people have reared their heads again, using different claims. Some facts first of all. Air is already about 78% nitrogen and 20% oxygen by volume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air). Thus the company is offering what looks like a replacement of most of the oxygen molecules with nitrogen. At 2% oxygen content you have ten times less oxygen per volume than normal air.

Now to address these new claims. First, they cite facts about the bad things that happen if you don't keep your tires inflated properly. All of the benefits of proper tire inflation can be achieved with normal air. Secondly, if my education serves me well, the claim that "With PurigeN98, tires hold their pressure longer." is incorrect due to the law of effusion of gases. In fact, as rate of effusion is inversely proportional to the mass of the gas molecule (lighter molecules escape faster than heavier ones), and that nitrogen is lighter than oxygen, the tire may deflate even faster with PurigeN98 than when compared to normal air. This is of course assuming that any channels through which the gases may escape is large enough to permit either nitrogen or oxygen.

Thirdly, and I'll concede this point partially, they claim your tires will oxidize slower if you use their product. Now obviously we are talking about the oxidation of the interior of the tire surface, as the exterior is still in contact with normal air. This is were my knowledge halts my opinion. I have not taken any chemistry courses that would cover the oxidatin of rubbers. It is true that such a thing happens, as we all know, old rubber gets hard. I am assuming this is due to the oxidation of the polymer in some way. This obviously could contribute to the degredation of your tires. But, as one who tends to keep his tires properly inflated, I must say from firsthand experience that properly inflated tires will become dangerously threadbare before they fall apart from internal or external oxidation.

In conclusion, find a gas station who has free compressed air, keep your tires properly inflated, and don't waste money on this hype.

Here's another one:

The reason airlines and race car crews fill their tires with nitrogen has absolutelly nothing to do with rate-of-loss or oxidation or even fuel economy. Nitrogen expands and contracts at a lesser rate with changes in temperature than atmospheric air. The process of separating the nitrogen out for the tanks used in this process removes the moisture content in normal air. It is the presence of moisture that causes the noticable increase in tire pressure with temperature increase. This is a BIG deal when you cruise at 200mph for 500 laps and you need all the traction you can get (meaning keeping the pressure as low as regulations allow).

It makes a big difference on airlines for massive planes coming into land where tire temperatures skyrocket rapidly. Again, keeping expansion down gives the pilots better traction, hence better control, during the rollout.

The other posters here listed other valid reasons why this process is a waste of peoples money for everyday driving. 1) Nitrogen will leak out of a tire faster than oxygen - but then there's little oxygen in your normal tires to begin with anyway. 2) Your tires are going to wear out long before oxidation breaks down any rubber (which is also a red herring as all the latex and teflon in todays tires don't break down with oxydation in any real-world noticable time-span).

Anyone telling you that they "feel" the difference must spend their days driving on the most perfectly paved roads available because the rest of us drive on ordinarly crappy roads for at least half of our trips and varitions in grade quality are going to mask any difference changing what tires are filled with or how the tire pressure changes as the tires heat up.

Anyone claiming they see an increase in fuel economy - well, let's just say I have a bridge to sell you ...

I'll wait for a full report from SK. ;)

SK's not going to be able to give you a full report because he's unable to conduct a controlled scientific comparison between the tires with air and with nitrogen. All he can give you is his feelings on how the car rides and the noise level, which could be a function of pressure or simply be psychological in nature, and any changes he may experience in fuel economy, which could be a function of weather, performance of the car, types of roadways driven on, and style of driving. He has no way of comparing how long the tire will last because he's not had this tire in this size on this vehicle before to compare the life.

This has nothing to do with SK, he's a very knowledgable man and my friend but its not possible for him to come up with any results we can do anything with.

This is how these scheisters that create things like the Tornado, fuel additives, super special air filters and the like make all this money because nobody can prove or disprove anything.

If its free, take it. But you might as well set your money on fire before you PAY for nitrogen to be put in your tires.

[SKperformance]

There is a difference ,that i can prove!

My wife even told me so. :)

[dcfish]

There is a difference ,that i can prove!

My wife even told me so. :)

I knew SK would give a full report If the wife says there is a difference that is all the proof i need. :D

[SW03ES]

If the wife said it, then I will also yield to her wisdom lol :D

[Lexusfreak]

Sk, did you say it cost you $20 do have the 'switch' done?

[SKperformance]

Yes, i had it done for $20 for all 4 so $5 each tire.

I threw them a 20 and said forget about the invoice as it was just hot air ! :)

I had it done at a place in Mississauga on queensway by dixie.

[Lexusfreak]

I might give nitrogen a try when it's more readily available out there........and free lol. ;) B) It's cool that you notice such a difference though sk. I skimmed over some of the replies.......and may have overlooked it.......any fuel economy differences?

[SKperformance]

No fuel changes yet that i notice. I also have thrown any chance of having clear data from that as i modified my exhaust system with a freer flowing mid muffler . So any data returned is going to be a combination with no clarity.

Sorry.

I also did not care so much about mileage as it could only be a factor of 1-3% tops. Which the mileage can vary that much depending on what kind of lunch i had that day.

Well the refills are free if needed , as well you can convince Costco to do it also.

[denslexusgx470]

Only thing i noticed with nitro in the tires, I don't think the tires lose air as fast as regular air in them, compared with nitro. Otherwise, I don't see or feel any difference! :whistles:

[SKperformance]

My noticeable changes would be also from me running 50 psi on 20 inch rims compared to a more normal 35psi . So the stiffer sidewall pressure would cause me to hear more noise being echoed through the tires.

I am not sure how this would effect a regular sized rim and tire.

[SW03ES]

Actually, Nitrogen molecules are smaller than oxygen, so if anything the nitrogen will leak FASTER. But remember, air is almost all nitrogen anyways so it probably wont make a difference.

[SKperformance]

I know nothing when it comes to molecular chemistry but from all the info i have read they say that Nitrogen is larger than most of the composition of compressed air.

[SW03ES]

But most of the composition of compressed air IS nitrogen!

[cardona6569]

It has been used in Millitary aircraft tires in the US millitary at least for the last 20 years. Jet engines placed into metal shipping containers were filled with 3 psi nitrogen in the summer and 5 psi in the winter.

As some pointed out, you are just increasing the nitrogen. Oxygen is corrosive towards metal, nitrogen delays the natural corrosion process, which is basically that the negative particles transfer from the metal to another location, and their by-product is rust.

C. PR