Tire Wear

[LexRexBlue]

I'm so glad to find the forum. I need your help. Here is my story.

I bought my 2006 RX 400H with Goodyear tires in August of 2005. A year later, I took the car to dealer for 5K service. (mostly local mileage). I noticed one front tire was leaking slowly, so I told the service guy about it. However, after the service, I was told no leak was found.

After a while, I still noticed the slow leak again, but since I'm busy, I just pumped air in once a while. In Feb. of 2007, At 8500 mileage, I decided to take the car to dealer, after they checked my car, I was told the two front tires wore out completely, so I had them replaced, they put 2 new Goodyear tires again. It costs me $530. I paid using my credit card.

After talking to my friends, I was told it's not possible that tires only last 8500 miles. I called the service manager of the dealer. He decided to refund me half of the cost, that's about $260. He asked me to stop by the dealer and sign a form to get the refund back. A week later, I stopped by the dealer in order to get the refund. However, instead of giving me refund, they decided to replace all 4 tires(2 new front tires and 2 old back

tires) with Michelin MXV4 S8 tires. I was told that they found Goodyear tires doesn't go well with RX 400H. It doesn't last long. I don't know anything about tires, I supposed such expensive car should have good quality tires. Should I ask for the money back? What's the warranty of the tires? Thanks for your help. Please advise.

I am fascinated by your experience because I have not loved my Goodyear tires also. I've had my car since June '05 and it has been fine. However, when the car was a week old I got a flat tire in Philly. It was changed and when I returned to NJ the dealer fixed it. My car now has about 18,000 miles and the tires aren't great but still useable. I've complained about the noise of the tires, handling, and wear, but they said that was what Lexus was recommending. Now, if you bought your car locally, we're talking about the same dealer who has been wonderful. I'm just curious about the switch to Michelin tires.

[retired00]

The Goodyear tire is a fine tire, but its wear rating (on the sidewall--not a "warranty" but a relative treadwear rating) is low compared to some others. It's a balance of ride and handling when mixing the compound, and the Goodyear Eagle is just not a high mileage tire compound. Some other Goodyears are long wearing. Since you make no reference to how often you check your tires or the pressure you keep them at, mileage will vary based on how well you care for them. 8500 is within possibility for a tire that is not well inflated or improperly aligned (either initially or after road impacts). I would say you got off very well financially for 4 new Michelins, and if you don't already, I'd start checking the tire pressure and wear pattern weekly, and keep them at at least 32 psi, 35 if you are OK with the ride. Tires only have material and workmanship warranties, not wear or road hazard unless advertised as such.

[Grape]

I don't feel much difference with Michelin tires. The service guy mentioned to me that the ride may not be so smooth and so quite compare with good year tire.

I agreed that their service is very good.

The Goodyear tire is a fine tire, but its wear rating (on the sidewall--not a "warranty" but a relative treadwear rating) is low compared to some others. It's a balance of ride and handling when mixing the compound, and the Goodyear Eagle is just not a high mileage tire compound. Some other Goodyears are long wearing. Since you make no reference to how often you check your tires or the pressure you keep them at, mileage will vary based on how well you care for them. 8500 is within possibility for a tire that is not well inflated or improperly aligned (either initially or after road impacts). I would say you got off very well financially for 4 new Michelins, and if you don't already, I'd start checking the tire pressure and wear pattern weekly, and keep them at at least 32 psi, 35 if you are OK with the ride. Tires only have material and workmanship warranties, not wear or road hazard unless advertised as such.

Thanks for your advice. I'll keep my eye on my tire and the pressure regularly.

[TomD]

Factory installed Goodyear tires wore out in the first 10k miles which I am told is normal. Upgraded tires might be a little better but not much. Cause: gasoline engine cutting in and out causing change in tire rotation per dealer. Have others had this experience...seems a little bizarre to me.

Just turned 15m on my 2006 400h with Michelins. Hardly any wear. Drive mostly city.

[JimsGX]

Has anyone had the Michelin MXV4 S8's and switched to the Bridgestone Alenza's? I would be interested in a comparison between the two on an RX400h... Ride, wear, snow traction, handling etc... I've looked at the customer reviews on tirerack.com and the Alenza looks superior in almost every way. Is it significant enough to make it worth shelfing the Michelin's and switching to the Alenza's?

Thanks,

Jim

[RX400h]

Has anyone had the Michelin MXV4 S8's and switched to the Bridgestone Alenza's? I would be interested in a comparison between the two on an RX400h... Ride, wear, snow traction, handling etc... I've looked at the customer reviews on tirerack.com and the Alenza looks superior in almost every way. Is it significant enough to make it worth shelfing the Michelin's and switching to the Alenza's?

Thanks,

Jim

A good comparison should come after many thousands of miles, IMO. I've had many different types of similarly-sized tires over the past 10 years on our Nissan Quest van - Goodyears, Sumitomos, Coopers, Dunlops, etc. and most, if not all felt great for the first 5-10 thousand miles. It's the mileage that comes after that that will separate the wheat, so to speak. That being said, I continue to be cautiously enthusiastic about our Bridgestone Alenzas - great tires thus far!

[KenLex41]

Interesting thread. I took my 400h in for its 30,000 mile service and the guy told me I needed new tires because of inside tire wear. They are replacing them with the Michelins mentioned in this thread. It came from the factory with Goodyear. The car is about 2 years old. I thought I read posts in the past (on another forum) that road noise was excessive with the Michelin tires. Anyone else notice this?

BTW, they guy at Performance Lexus in Cincinnati said they didn't have any Goodyear tires in stock and would have to order them if I wanted them. The Goodyears would have been about $100 cheaper overall. I told him to put the Michelins on since he could do it today.

[RX400h]

Many OEM tires wear out far more quickly than aftermarket versions, even by the same manufacturer. This is why I stayed away from the OEM tires when it comes time for replacement. Still, one might assume that the Michelins are longer-lasting compared to the OEM Goodyears, but as I mentioned previously, it is those Goodyears that are made of a very soft compound, not the aftermarket Goodyears, which have been highly rated by many magazines and Tirerack buyers.

[newtoncd]

I don't own a Hybrid, but do have the RX330. After 35K (twice) on two sets of Michelin's, I changed over and put on the Bridgestone H/L Alenza. It offers a 65K treadlife warranty and ride great. The tread is more aggressive than the Michelin's, but they are quiet and smooth. I think the Michelin's seemed to absorb potholes better, but that is about the only difference between the two. I was tired of only getting 35K out of the Michelin's and from what I read, the Goodyear's weren't any better.

Watch Firestone for a sale; I purchased mine when they had a buy 3 get 1 free. Out the door with road hazard for $705.

YMMV.

[JimsGX]

I don't own a Hybrid, but do have the RX330. After 35K (twice) on two sets of Michelin's, I changed over and put on the Bridgestone H/L Alenza. It offers a 65K treadlife warranty and ride great. The tread is more aggressive than the Michelin's, but they are quiet and smooth. I think the Michelin's seemed to absorb potholes better, but that is about the only difference between the two. I was tired of only getting 35K out of the Michelin's and from what I read, the Goodyear's weren't any better.

Watch Firestone for a sale; I purchased mine when they had a buy 3 get 1 free. Out the door with road hazard for $705.

YMMV.

Newtoncd,

Can you tell me a bit more... Such as how many miles you've put on the Alenza's; If you've run them in snow, and how they compare to the Michelin's; If you considered the Michelin's to be loud at highway speeds, and how the Alenza's noise levels compare on the highway? I think the Michelin's are good around town, but on the highway, I find them to be a bit noisy... TireRack's snow and wet traction customer reviews aren't that great for the Michelin's. Do you find the the Alenza's to perform better under these conditions? Lastly, what pressure are you running the Alenza's at?

Thanks,

Jim

[newtoncd]

We have just over 1,500 miles on the Alenza's. We live in Colorado, but we have only been through one storm since we had the Alenza's put on, and it was only a couple of inches of snow. However, I can assure you, the Alenza's performed nicely. The reviews at TireRack convinced me to go with the Alenza and I don't regret the decision. My wife is the primary driver of the RX and she said she couldn't tell any difference in ride (i.e. noise, bumps, etc) between the Michelin MXV and the Bridgestone H/L Alenza; and I have to tell you, she can be fairly critical...;-)

My only complaint with the Michelin was the lack of any type of treadwear warranty; on the highway, they were very smooth and quiet. The bottom line: I just hated spending $850+ on a set of tires and being lucky to get 35K out of them; this last set had 35K and they were at 2/32 tread-depth. The Bridgestone has a warranty for 65K and if I don't get that, at least I will get pro-rated towards the next set; with the Michelin, I didn't get anything.

I run my tires at 36psi, just as I did the Michelin's and I have them rotated every 5K.

Hope this helps.

[JimsGX]

We have just over 1,500 miles on the Alenza's. We live in Colorado, but we have only been through one storm since we had the Alenza's put on, and it was only a couple of inches of snow. However, I can assure you, the Alenza's performed nicely. The reviews at TireRack convinced me to go with the Alenza and I don't regret the decision. My wife is the primary driver of the RX and she said she couldn't tell any difference in ride (i.e. noise, bumps, etc) between the Michelin MXV and the Bridgestone H/L Alenza; and I have to tell you, she can be fairly critical...;-)

My only complaint with the Michelin was the lack of any type of treadwear warranty; on the highway, they were very smooth and quiet. The bottom line: I just hated spending $850+ on a set of tires and being lucky to get 35K out of them; this last set had 35K and they were at 2/32 tread-depth. The Bridgestone has a warranty for 65K and if I don't get that, at least I will get pro-rated towards the next set; with the Michelin, I didn't get anything.

I run my tires at 36psi, just as I did the Michelin's and I have them rotated every 5K.

Hope this helps.

Thanks... I think I'll stick with the Michelin's through this fall and switch to the Alenza's next winter.

Jim

[LexRexBlue]

I realize that the season has changed and you probably don't get ice in CO, but did you try those tires in the ice? We get ice in NJ and my past experience with Bridgestone is that after a year they don't do well in the ice/snow. So as my Goodyears are about gone my choice is between Michelin and the Alenzas. I also am confused as to wheter the other Michelins are better.

[WRK]

I was told Monday by my tire dealer that he couldn't balance one of my Goodyear tires which had been on the front and the other front tire was badly worn also. Both had insides worn badly. I had had them all balanced at 500 miles (shortly after getting the car) and was rotating and balancing at 5K intervals... Now at 14,800 I'm told two are definitely BAD ! My friendly dealer service manager at Park Place Lexus here in Dallas has informed me that was "about right." He approves replacement all the time for their loaner RX SUVs at about 15,000... 'that's all they last'! I had been appalled when I purchased the car when they said the 'high performance tires' would only last about 25K! Now, the service manager has downward revised expectations to 15K ! He has offered to align the wheels after I get new tires! I firmly believe the alignment was wrong at the outset! I had purchased the road hazard and lifetime rotate and balance from the tire dealer just for protection since they were such expensive tires! Now, that appears to have been wasted since that didn't cover BAD ALIGNMENT!

After checking around for tires, I can roll out with a set of Michelins for about $942 (includes TT, lifetime spin bal, etc) but they have NO Mileage warranty. On the other hand, a set of Bridgestones would cost about $890 (including same) BUT have a 65,000 Mileage Warranty! Matter of fact, Bridgestone was the ONLY manufacturer with any Mileage Warranty.

I went through a similar experience with my LS400 and feel like Lexus QC was lacking with 'alignment checking'!

Well you are not alone. I got 17k on the first 2 sets of tires. The tread wears out on the inside only. Park Place gave me the same run around. And I griped because first they balanced and rotated the tires and aligned and said the vibration problem was fixed. I'd drive it home and call them and they would say it needed new tires. This last time I got a copy of the alignment print out and the next week when they repaced the tires they aligned it again. Totally different numbers. I showed both sheets to my saleman ( this is lexus #5) and he got a technican. They told me they were having trouble with one of the aligment machines and wern't suposed to use it til it was fixed. I asked if they we going to call anyone who recently got an alignment on that machine ( no answer). I called Lexus in CA and told them I didn't like that and did not hear back. A week or so later I called CA again and the rep there told me he had called PP and talked to them. The up shot was PP said the conversation never happened.

I told my sales rep that there is a reasoon Lexus has dropped from 1st to 5th in consumer reports and this is it. no followup on their part or anything.

[LexRexBlue]

I haven't had any alignment problems. The Goodyear tires are wearing evenly--maybe their name is the predictor of their lifespan? Just kidding. Looking at the ratings, the Alenza comes out higher than the Michelin Energy MXV4 S8 that Lexus is recommending. However, they are heavier and are they noisier? Do they affect the gas mileage on the hybrid? I have to make my mind up soon! Also, the prices quoted earlier in this thread are a whole lot cheaper than available in my area. I don't really think it is practical to ship the tires and pay to have them put on and balanced either. I'm assuming that all quotes are for the V rated tires in the 18" size. Can someone say if the Alenzas are quiet and won't damage the hybrid? I did inquire at the dealership but they did not have a definite answer other than they no longer recommend the Goodyears and do put on the Michelins.

[skyfish400h]

Can someone say if the Alenzas are quiet and won't damage the hybrid?

I think its safe to say none of the tires available in our sized would damage the hybrid system. Some will have higer rolling resistance and/or more mass which will tend to impact MPG, but probably not so's you'd notice.

Hankook makes a tire in the size for the 400h. Last years model had better ratings that the Alenzas or either of the OEM tires, and they are considerably cheaper since they don't spend a lot on marketing.

[RX400h]

We have approx 3000 miles on our Alenzas and they are as quiet as ever. So far, I stand by my recommendation of these tires - highly recommended!

Dave

[LexRexBlue]

Well, after reading everyone's opinions, searching for answers on the internet, consulting with the service dept. I consulted my local tire dealer. He too mentioned the Hangook but said that they would ride like the Goodyears! Now since I haven't enjoyed my Goodyears (noisy on concrete roads, slides on wet pavement, snow and ice) I decided to go with either the Michelins or the Alenzas. I didn't like the Michelins on the RX 350 loaner I had. Since I liked the Cross Terrains on my old RX he suggested I'd probably like the Alenzas. So, they're ordered now and should go on the car next week. I'll let you know how it works out. However, I won't have any opinions on winter driving for awhile. Thanks All for your input.

[katzjamr]

what didnt you like about the michelins, im at the point where i need to be thinking about new tires, 22K, some wear left but the damed left side of the 400h wont stay aligned, and no i dont let those tires and rims go near a curb. yes there have been two alignments in 22K, at the dealer. the tires are my sore spot with this vehicle that i otherwise love, and you guys can laugh but im gonna ask lexus to pay for two of the four replacements needed.

[LexRexBlue]

Unlike the Michelin Cross Terrains on the RX 300 the RX350 loaner I had had wishywashy steering and the tires seem to be part of it. The car would turn and feel like it was rolling sideways on the tires but they didn't squeal so I don't think it was due to low air. It could be the difference between a 400h and a 350 but somehow I think not. I've never felt that in other loaners that were RX330s. Because once you purchase tires you usually are using them for a long time I didn't want to take a chance. Don't get me wrong I usually love Michelins and have them on all of my other cars.

[skyfish400h]

Unlike the Michelin Cross Terrains on the RX 300 the RX350 loaner I had had wishywashy steering and the tires seem to be part of it. The car would turn and feel like it was rolling sideways on the tires but they didn't squeal so I don't think it was due to low air. It could be the difference between a 400h and a 350 but somehow I think not. I've never felt that in other loaners that were RX330s. Because once you purchase tires you usually are using them for a long time I didn't want to take a chance. Don't get me wrong I usually love Michelins and have them on all of my other cars.

From what I've been gathering from a number of sources (including here) is that the Michlens are a softer riding tire. This is great if you want nice quite ride and you don't want to feel every bump in the roadway, but you will pay with a squshy steering response. The Goodyears are a stiffer tire and provide better steering response at the expence of the other things.

Most of the rave reviews of the BF Goodrich tires are from folk who went from the Michlens and so noticed better handling or were folks who went from the Goodyears and noticed a quieter ride... this leads me to place them somewhere in between on the hard/soft scale.

The Hankooks are supposed to be on the stiffer side (my preference) but better in every way than the Goodyears. So far they have my vote when my time comes.

[RX400h]

Michelins are notoriously expensive and certainly not always best when it comes to handling. This is why I chose the Bridgestones - excellent handling, great wear characteristics at a great price. I really can't ask for anything more for my RX400h.

[SOMEONE ELSE'S GOT MY NAME]

w/o reading the entire thread...

i have been seeing premature tire wear on all hybrid vehicles. while i don't have an answer for you, i can say that i'm not surprised.

That's why no one elected you the end all - beat all of hybrid tire knowledge

Our Prius has Michelin Hydroedge's that are warranted for 90K. They're right on track. It's the manufacturer, my friend. The original OP must have been trolling because the tires would still be under warranty w/ only 10K miles on them

[stiksandstones]

quick skim through this thread I saw a lot of wacko info on premature wear due to hybrid system and other nonsense....I am here looking to see what size I need as my wife has the car and the wheel is still at tire shop, but I just got back from tire shop with her wheel that can not be fixed, the michelin got a chunk of wood splinter in sidewall, can not be patched-so I need new tires.

She got her rx400 the second they landed in america, she has 39k miles and I would say the michelins have about half tread left-all even wear too, so, with this tire that can not be fixed-got to get new ones. I see they are michelin mxv 235/55/18, so off to order some more.

Amazing car, great tires....and this coming from a huge whiner and product complainer.

[LexRexBlue]

I purchased the Alenzas. They seem quiet enough, good steering, with excellent traction. I did notice (and this could be the water hitting under the car) that they seemed noisy going through deep puddles.