The Time Has Come! *starter Went Out*

[sha4000]

ive been following thisthread GRAND and your doing well, i hope that you do a good tutorial with the pics. did you remove the fuel rail?

[GRAND_LS 4]

I dread the day mine goes. It's a '91 with 180k on it !! I hope I have a few more years to go !

Excellent updates and pics that will help someone along the way. You're probably saving close to

$1,000 so it'w worth it. Just don't figure out your hourly rate :)

Bob

Thats true, no regrets that I started. Oh yeah, believe me, after doing all of this, im going to feel very bad for anyone who starts a topic with the word "starter" in it.

There you go, you got. Just two things to watch out for 1) insert paper towels inside the intake openings to keep dirt/sand and possible parts from falling inside 2) Don't take a chance with any gasket or o-ring you remove, replace it while your in there, which it sounds like your doing anyway.

Of course, all gaskets are going to be changed, even if I have to delay the project until parts are here. I’m really not going to do this twice. Yeah, I been extremely careful working around with the "pits of hell". All kinds of plastic that used to be wrapped around the engine harness wires crumble when I hold them after years of heat... so I was extra careful not to let any of them get into openings. Im also going to re-tape all the exposed wiring shortly.

ive been following thisthread GRAND and your doing well, i hope that you do a good tutorial with the pics. did you remove the fuel rail?

I have taken lots of pics, and hopefully i'll put something together especially for the 98-00 owners who may not find much help online as opposed to the first gens. And yes, I did remove the fuel rail, it came out with the intake manifold.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Finally pulled out the starter a few hours ago. However, in contrast to some first gen tutorials, I HAD to remove the rear coolant by-pass pipe and housing to get to the starter. (Need new gaskets for those, anyone got any part numbers?)

I will test the starter before, and after repair to evaluate its condition. Oh yeah, the contacts were pretty worn down. I hope that the repair will fix the problem. Right now, I need part numbers for the coolant by-pass housing. Anyone know if they are a dealer only item? If they are, I will just pay for expedited shipping, and be done with it.

Here are the pics... not much changed since yesterday; however, it was a lot of work getting the starter out.

[sha4000]

where is that by pass hose located? do you have a picture?

[GRAND_LS 4]

where is that by pass hose located? do you have a picture?

Look at the picture above, do you see those 2 RED puddles right behind the last 2 openings on each side? Well, thats the coolent that used to be covered by the housing. Now look in that same area, a post prior, and you would see the housing on there, with a pipe as well.

its clear to see, but i can circle it if you cant find it.

[sha4000]

i see what your talking about, was that real messy or what?

[GRAND_LS 4]

i see what your talking about, was that real messy or what?

Not as much as I thought it would be. If i had to guess, less then 4 oz. of coolent was spilled... Exactly the amount the pipe and hose can hold. However, you can REALLY use an extra set of hands to hold up the engine harness so you can wiggle the housing out of there.

[RFeldes]

Grand...I have to "admire" your tenacity! That appears to be one tough project but with your leading the way it will make it a lot easier for others to follow. Good on you!! and we look forward to a successful conclusion.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand...I have to "admire" your tenacity! That appears to be one tough project but with your leading the way it will make it a lot easier for others to follow. Good on you!! and we look forward to a successful conclusion.

Thank you very much for your kind words. Currently I've been waiting on some parts to arrive in the mail. I've been spending my time cleaning up the intake and other various parts that could use some decarburization.

[GRAND_LS 4]

I cleaned my intake manifold with carb cleaner, and you have no idea how much dirt came out... however, I’m not sure how to clean the carbon in the intake openings of the heads. Don’t want the dirt, and grime to fall down there... kinda defeats the purpose of cleaning it. Any suggestions?

I’m waiting on parts still, and its been a while, and the LS has been parked sideways in the garage for sometime to give me ample room to work.... but hey, the LS gets priority.

In addition, can I use water to rinse the upper and lower intake manifolds (like stick a hose in there)? (They are in one piece right now, with the injectors, and fuel rail and all.)

[GRAND_LS 4]

I gathered some part numbers needed to replace your starter on the 98-00.

First off, here are the contacts part numbers needed for the LS (need one of each):

28226-54412

28226-72010

Also, other parts I needed for the project are the following (this is going to save you sooooo much time! wish I knew beforehand)

16341-50020-GASKET, WATER OUTLET (2 needed)

17171-50020-GASKET, INTAKE MANIFOLD (2 needed)

17176-50021-GASKET, AIR SURGE TANK (4 needed, ONLY needed if you want to separate the upper and lower intake, which I STRONGLY advise against, the more parts you separate, the higher prospects for problems later down the road).

281005006284 - REMAN STARTER (incase someone needs this.)

Nevertheless, for some reason, I have a feeling that I'm going to replace the entire starter.

Anyhow, going to test the starter after the parts have been replaced, and we'll just have to see if a new starter is needed.

[alsalih]

You da man, Grand, thanks for the numbers and the follow on information. However, I wouldn't use water to clean the manifold or any other part you have, just because you could initiate corrosion if settles in certain voids or areas. I would stick with throttle body cleaner for cleaning your parts. If your worried about cleaning the intake above the head then I would spray throttle body cleaner on a piece of cloth and try to wipe the insides if possible, I really don't think this will change much so you could just leave it. Now, I know many have had success by only replacing the contacts on the starter, however I would be concerned about the brushes on the starter motor wearing, or the bearings seizing at a later time. If you feel like you can do this job again and it's no big deal for you then replace the contacts and see how it works. If however you don't feel like going in there again then I would just buy a rebuilt Denso starter (rebuilt by Denso). By the way, the cheapest place I have found is www.sparkplugs.com, you also get to keep the core!!

[GRAND_LS 4]

You da man, Grand, thanks for the numbers and the follow on information. However, I wouldn't use water to clean the manifold or any other part you have, just because you could initiate corrosion if settles in certain voids or areas. I would stick with throttle body cleaner for cleaning your parts. If your worried about cleaning the intake above the head then I would spray throttle body cleaner on a piece of cloth and try to wipe the insides if possible, I really don't think this will change much so you could just leave it. Now, I know many have had success by only replacing the contacts on the starter, however I would be concerned about the brushes on the starter motor wearing, or the bearings seizing at a later time. If you feel like you can do this job again and it's no big deal for you then replace the contacts and see how it works. If however you don't feel like going in there again then I would just buy a rebuilt Denso starter (rebuilt by Denso). By the way, the cheapest place I have found is www.sparkplugs.com, you also get to keep the core!!

Yup, cleaned my intake soley with carb cleaner, and you have no idea how much dirt came out... could build a dirt castle with all that gunk.

UPDATE: Anyhow, got the contacts, and the needed gaskets earlier today, replaced the contacts, but the starter wasnt cutting it. It was giving me less then 70(forgot the measuring units) without any load Should have been around 110. So I went ahead and ordered a reman DENSO starter. Should be here by monday. There's light at the end of the tunnel :)

Lets look on the bright side for a minute, with gas now at $3.03 here in Tampa, I'm not really missing out on much am I :)

She will fire up again God willing on tuesday morning. Will take more pics, and keep you guys posted.

[GRAND_LS 4]

We are on schedule... I replaced the starter, and put everything back together about 30 mins ago. Car runs great, no check engine light (all harnesses are back where they should be.) Don’t have any more energy to type, think, or do other average human bodily functions. Will post the rest tomorrow.

[GRAND_LS 4]

All right, my back is finally feeling much better now. And I’m no old man, but torquing while bending over to reach the back of the engine takes its toll on every part of your back.

Back to the issue at hand, that was one long job. Constantly delayed due to having to order parts online, and waiting for them to come in, then finding out, more gaskets are needed. I could probably have reused my old gaskets, but I wasn’t going to gamble for $30 worth of gaskets, and lots of labor down the road.

Car took a bit start up initially, but once she cranked up, it was all smooth sailing from there (remember, the car has been sitting for a long time now, see date of my first post in this thread).

I made a few mistakes, like fastened the intake, before attaching the throttle body... which needed the intake to tilt a few degrees to slide it into the intake bolts, so i had to take off the intake to slide it in, that was at least 30minutes wasted.

Also, be careful NOT to drop ANYTHING in the starter hole, or be ready to take off the transmission to go fishing for it by the flywheel.

I replaced my old one with a DENSO reman in great condition, and she starts up nicely now.

Enclosed are pics of the gaskets needed…

I would like to thank everyone who helped out through this project, specifically alsalih for his much appriciated assistance.

[GRAND_LS 4]

And the LS is back in action once again...

[RFeldes]

;)

[sha4000]

looking good

[cardona6569]

And the LS is back in action once again...

You are my Hero! Nicely Done!

I know the "Dark Side" must not be happy about your acomplishment.

C. PR

[lexlover1]

And the LS is back in action once again...

Hello Grand ls read all of your posts about the starter job with great interest. I have a 95 that is starting to be a clicker. I saw in one of the posts that there was a recall on the 95 which mine is. Curious as to how many times yours clicked before the final click or did you replace the starter after the first click? I am guessing the gaskets needed would be the same for the 95 model, although I did notice a couple of small things different under the hood in some of the pics you posted. Mine has 130k. Doesn't look like much fun, especially if something is broken during disassembly. Plus I know it is going to be hard to reach in there cause I am quite short. Trying to find some info on a recall, gee you think they would install too. Any answers would be greatly apperciated, my babay is hurting. Thanks.

[VBdenny]

Grand,

Thanks for the great thread. Your information, pictures and comments on your experience will be beneficial to all of us. I do hope you will put together a tutorial on this since this is something many of us will face in the future.

My compliments on a job well done

Denny

[daffy]

Hi Grand_LS 4,

I wished you had done this earlier, otherwise I would have tried this myself. I chickened out and had it done. $1700. cdn. Good job on your car!

I have a 1991 LS400 and after 15 years my starter. started acting up with about 430,000 kms(267000 miles), not bad. Seems like your starter should have lasted longer, is the quality going down on the newer cars? Daffy

[GRAND_LS 4]

And the LS is back in action once again...

Hello Grand ls read all of your posts about the starter job with great interest. I have a 95 that is starting to be a clicker. I saw in one of the posts that there was a recall on the 95 which mine is. Curious as to how many times yours clicked before the final click or did you replace the starter after the first click? I am guessing the gaskets needed would be the same for the 95 model, although I did notice a couple of small things different under the hood in some of the pics you posted. Mine has 130k. Doesn't look like much fun, especially if something is broken during disassembly. Plus I know it is going to be hard to reach in there cause I am quite short. Trying to find some info on a recall, gee you think they would install too. Any answers would be greatly apperciated, my babay is hurting. Thanks.

Mine went out at once, no introductions. One day i was goign to see a friend, and tried to start the car, NO dice. You seem to need new contacts, but I had a bigger problem, and needed replacement of the entire starter. I think the 95 had a few differences. Not sure what they are, since i havent looked under the hood of one.

Hi Grand_LS 4,

I wished you had done this earlier, otherwise I would have tried this myself. I chickened out and had it done. $1700. cdn. Good job on your car!

I have a 1991 LS400 and after 15 years my starter. started acting up with about 430,000 kms(267000 miles), not bad. Seems like your starter should have lasted longer, is the quality going down on the newer cars? Daffy

Thanks! It was a tough job, but an interesting learning experiance. We'll, it really depends on usage, and how frequently you start you car. I dont think there is any noticeable quality decline, just a matter of different use, and variables.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand,

Thanks for the great thread. Your information, pictures and comments on your experience will be beneficial to all of us. I do hope you will put together a tutorial on this since this is something many of us will face in the future.

My compliments on a job well done

Denny

Your welcome.

Wish i took some pics along the way, but I did not, too much frustration at times to take out the camera and snap pics. But I'll be here to answer any questions i can.

[FastEd]

Grand LS 4, Just wanted to thank you for your post. I just finished changing the starter on my '98 LS 400. If it hadn't been for your post I couldn't even have found the starter.

A few tips for the next guy.

1. Have a 14mm flarenut wrench, the fuel line nut is soft and will round off with an open end.

2. Consider taking the top and fuel rails off the manifold. I didn't and it is difficult to horse the manifold off and on with all the stuff in the way. I am a big guy and managed with some difficulty. If you are smaller, have a helper or take it apart. The gasket sets come with the required gasket.

3. Have universal joints for your socket sets, and a good magnet pickup tool. You'll need them especially if you don't take the manifold apart.

4. Don't worry too much about all the electrical and vacuum connections you have to disconnect. All the electrical connectors are different so it only goes together one way. The vacuum lines fall right back into place if you only disconnect one end. Make sure they are disconnected though. I broke one nipple off and had to repair with a brass fitting.

My car was out of service for about two weeks. Most of that time was researching and ordering parts and waiting for them to come. I think if you are young and have a strong back you could change the starter in eight hours with all parts available.

Regards, Ed

PS: I bought the starter from Advance Auto Parts web site, $149.95 plus core. Came in About 4 days and I returned the core at my local Advance for instant credit with no shipping required.