The Time Has Come! *starter Went Out*

[GRAND_LS 4]

Yes, my starter decided the grass was greener on the other side, and decided he wasn’t going work for me anymore.

I think I’m going to take on the task, and try to repair the contacts with a contacts repair kit from Toyota. However, most of the help I found by searching was for earlier first gens, nothing on the '98's. Any more specific help on 95+ is much appreciated.

Therefore, I was wondering if anyone knew part numbers, or other parts I have to change while attempting to get to the starter, like gaskets and such, as a result of taking so many parts out.

(I'm glad the car was parked in the garage when this happend.)

ANY tips are appreciated,

Thanks guys.

Has anyone tried this kit by the way?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STARTER-REP...itemZ8036495213

[nc211]

Never seen one of those, but for $20 bucks, I think it's worth a shot!

[alsalih]

Grand, I'm curious how many miles do you have? I just want to get an idea when mine will likely go too.

Given the amount of work you need to get to the starter I wouldn't recommend rebuilding your starter with unknown (likely Chinese) components. I'm sure it will work fine initially, but you'll be back in there again shortly.

[bicol-ini]

IMHO no sense in replacing your contacts since its already out anyways replace it with a OEM rebuilt starter youll be satisfied, you know the difficulty in just getting the starter to come out, but that just me,

ive installed a japanese rebuilt starter from kragen or schucks or partsamerica.com for 125 bucks or so and its been like 5 years no problem, for a buddy of mine on his 96 LS,

check kragen i think the brand was WORLDWIDE automotive part number 17249 good luck

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand, I'm curious how many miles do you have? I just want to get an idea when mine will likely go too.

Given the amount of work you need to get to the starter I wouldn't recommend rebuilding your starter with unknown (likely Chinese) components. I'm sure it will work fine initially, but you'll be back in there again shortly.

I have about 120K now. Yeah, I wasnt too sure about using the kit (although the seller said it was made in canada) but its really hard locating the OEM contact kit from a Toyota dealer, and forget completely about a Lexus dealer selling them to you. But I think steve @ carson toyota might be able to help me.

[RFeldes]

Not questioning you, Just curious as to how you knew the starter has died..not looking for the obvious answer, just asking for symptoms of a dead starter and how you came to that conclusion so that other members could get a leg up on it. Thanks GRAND_LS 4, and sorry to see you have a starter problem.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Not questioning you, Just curious as to how you knew the starter has died..not looking for the obvious answer, just asking for symptoms of a dead starter and how you came to that conclusion so that other members could get a leg up on it. Thanks GRAND_LS 4, and sorry to see you have a starter problem.

That’s actually a very good question, because symptoms of a bad battery, or battery terminals could be very close. You somewhat have to eliminate all the other alternatives (since they are all cheaper, and easier to fix then the starter).

Usually, when the starter is dead, you will hear only a SINGLE click when you turn the key. (dead or weak battery will warrant you a continuous series of clicks.) This is the most clear symptom, but it can always be a battery terminal, so you have to check those first. Well, I checked them, even swapped with a NEW battery from my bros SC400, and still get the same click (no dimming in interior lights, or other strange electrical issues, just when starting.)

IF you don’t hear ANY clicks, it means it could be your alternator, or starter relay, or loose connections on the actual starter (assuming your interior lights are operational.) meaning the starter is not getting any source of power.

[GRAND_LS 4]

IMHO no sense in replacing your contacts since its already out anyways replace it with a OEM rebuilt starter youll be satisfied, you know the difficulty in just getting the starter to come out, but that just me,

ive installed a japanese rebuilt starter from kragen or schucks or partsamerica.com for 125 bucks or so and its been like 5 years no problem, for a buddy of mine on his 96 LS,

check kragen i think the brand was WORLDWIDE automotive part number 17249 good luck

Actually, what you're saying makes sense, however, the Denso starter is of great quality, only problem is the wearing of the contacts, so I’m not really trying to be cheap here, just prefer the OEM over a non-brand starter. I’m in no way doubting your experience, but I rather use the OEM denso, then try my luck with another brand.

As you can see in the image below, the only reason the starter is not working now, its because after years of use, the wear on the copper eats away the layers of the contacts, and when the starter is moving, it no longer can reach and make contact, thus the problem I’m having. Here is the pic with a new, and old worn contact. Notice the curve engraved in the old one.

More info can be found here:

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/starter/index.html

if my method of repair does not work during the testing phase, I would certainty buy another OEM denso before putting it all back together.

[Shadow]

My Supra's starter went out about 8 yrs ago @150k. I got a copper strip for $2 at a hardware store and whipped it into the "L" shape to replace the contacts (that was before I knew of any replacement contact kit), and 8 yrs and 100k later, the starter still works.

[alsalih]

Grand, actually on that off-road link you gave us there is a picture of a totota contact set with part number

28226-72010. Now you can't pull this up on the Lexus parts site (park place) but they can get for you if you contact them or simply you can get it from any Toyota dealer. It retails for $12 and I'm fairly certain that it will work, however I haven't tried it myself so I can't guarantee that. Very interesting what Shadow did, however that starter on the Supra is much easier to get to then the LS. I would be less inclined to experiment on a starter if you have to remove the intake manifold just to get to it.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand, actually on that off-road link you gave us there is a picture of a totota contact set with part number

28226-72010. Now you can't pull this up on the Lexus parts site (park place) but they can get for you if you contact them or simply you can get it from any Toyota dealer. It retails for $12 and I'm fairly certain that it will work, however I haven't tried it myself so I can't guarantee that. Very interesting what Shadow did, however that starter on the Supra is much easier to get to then the LS. I would be less inclined to experiment on a starter if you have to remove the intake manifold just to get to it.

Yeah, I see that on the off-road website, just wasn’t sure if all contacts for all Toyota starters were the same. Carson Toyota should be getting back to me about the contacts soon.

Not up to experiments here... after fixing my starter, I will take it to shop to have it tested. And if it doesn’t pull through, I'll get another one (its not like I’m going to put a another faulty starter in there, so I can do this job all over again.)

By the way... Does anyone have any torque specs for the bolts (especially on for the manifold), or any diagrams from the Lexus tech book? Those would prove very useful.

thanks.

[ko90ls]

not %100 sure but i think i saw a recall on the starters of 98 models. I'm sure that the SC was affected but common sense would say that the LS is also? did you look into that? may be able to get a new OEM starter with no expiramentation? Just a thought...

Good Luck!

[alsalih]

Grand, I have the hard copy of the 98 book. The manifold and all the water bypass joints go on at 13 ft-lbf. The starter installs with the two bolts at 29 ft-lbf. Set aside some time for this job because there are several o-rings and gaskets which must be replaced. The recall was actually on the starter for the 95 model and not the 98. Let us know how it goes.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand, I have the hard copy of the 98 book. The manifold and all the water bypass joints go on at 13 ft-lbf. The starter installs with the two bolts at 29 ft-lbf. Set aside some time for this job because there are several o-rings and gaskets which must be replaced. The recall was actually on the starter for the 95 model and not the 98. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the valuable info. I've bought a few gaskets Totaling $50 the other day from www.lexus-parts.com , they should be here by Wed, or Thurs. However, I want to be done fixing the starter/replaced it, so by then, I can just put everything back together, and Im done.

Progress: So far so good, took a while to label all the hoses, and took many pics JUST in case, I'd hate to have extra screws in the end

Quick question... can i remove the UPPER and LOWER intake manifold without seperating them?? or do I have to? Also, do the injectors have to come out on the 98-00 including the fuel rail? I'm glad I dont have any ignition wires to fiddle with, i have enough wires and pipes to worry about... believe me. (SOLVED, YES THEY CAN BE TAKEN OUT AS A UNIT.)

Thanks guys.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand, I have the hard copy of the 98 book. The manifold and all the water bypass joints go on at 13 ft-lbf. The starter installs with the two bolts at 29 ft-lbf. Set aside some time for this job because there are several o-rings and gaskets which must be replaced. The recall was actually on the starter for the 95 model and not the 98. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks for the valuable info. I've bought a few gaskets Totaling $50 the other day from www.lexus-parts.com , they should be here by Wed, or Thurs. However, I want to be done fixing the starter/replaced it, so by then, I can just put everything back together, and Im done.

Progress: So far so good, took a while to label all the hoses, and took many pics JUST in case, I'd hate to have extra screws in the end

Quick question... can i remove the UPPER and LOWER intake manifold without seperating them?? or do I have to? Also, do the injectors have to come out on the 98-00 including the fuel rail? I'm glad I dont have any ignition wires to fiddle with, i have enough wires and pipes to worry about... believe me.

Thanks guys.

Okay, Nevermind the earlier question, found out that i can remove both upper, and lower as a unit without seperating them. Now... How do I diconnect the main fuel line? I dont want to break anything, and have fuel spewing all over the joint. Any help for 95+ is appriciated.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Okay, Nevermind the earlier question, found out that i can remove both upper, and lower as a unit without seperating them. Now... How do I diconnect the main fuel line? I dont want to break anything, and have fuel spewing all over the joint. Any help for 95+ is appriciated.

ANYONE??? Im talkign about the one the plugs into the fuel rail. Not sure where to disconnect

[alsalih]

Grand, on the driver's side at the aft most end of the fuel rail you will find a fuel pressure regulator. You will find a flexible fuel line that comes out of it and has a connection fitting at the end of the flex line before it goes the vehicles body. You can unscrew this hex fitting. In other words, you will have about a foot length of flexible fuel line left hanging/connected to the fuel pressure regulator. It should be clear once you follow the line.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand, on the driver's side at the aft most end of the fuel rail you will find a fuel pressure regulator. You will find a flexible fuel line that comes out of it and has a connection fitting at the end of the flex line before it goes the vehicles body. You can unscrew this hex fitting. In other words, you will have about a foot length of flexible fuel line left hanging/connected to the fuel pressure regulator. It should be clear once you follow the line.

Yes, thanks for the info. This is what I Initially thought, however, whenever i tried twisting it, the light would twist likewise, and bend the fuel line... so I thought there must be a way.

So which part actually twists? The end of the line coming from the engine, or the actual steel bolt ? (see first pic)

thanks.

Here is progress so far, and a pic of the insides of the minifold.

[alsalih]

Grand, that's it you got it there. You will need two open ended wrenchs one to hold the hex on the flex line (the brown colored one, the larger one of the two, don't turn this one). Then with another open end wrench turn the smaller hex that's actually on the end of the solid line (metallic colored hex). Keep taking them pics, real nice.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand, that's it you got it there. You will need two open ended wrenchs one to hold the hex on the flex line (the brown colored one, the larger one of the two, don't turn this one). Then with another open end wrench turn the smaller hex that's actually on the end of the solid line (metallic colored hex). Keep taking them pics, real nice.

I think we have a serious problem. That line does not want to come out. barely got some of it off. Then I noticed a small fuel puddle under the car, and im seriously hopping its from the fitting im tryign to loosen up, and not the other end of the steel line bending, and leaking.

I have no idea what the issue is, have not came across a problem like this on the LS before. Poorly designed? or just a friday afternoon build, i dont know. But I hope i dont have to change the fuel line now.

Anyone come across a problem with the fuel line before?

[alsalih]

Grand, not sure what you mean you got some of it off, it either loosens or it doesn't? I'm assuming you have the exact size wrenches that your using on the hex nut and your not using pliers!! Also, for a better grip you should use flare nut wrenches to avoid stripping or damaging the hex nut (Sears has them). The steel line is pretty flexible you would have to do some serious bending to actually cause it to break and leak.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Grand, not sure what you mean you got some of it off, it either loosens or it doesn't?

Actually, thats the problem, its technically loose (meaning turned a few times) yet its still VERY VERY hard to get. I've gotten the right size wrenches, however, lots of slipping has occured. I dont know why. My buddy (mechanic) and I were very puzzled, because usually they are loose, or tight, but this one managed both.

I'm not very worried about the steel line end that im working on, im worried about the far end of it that i cant see. So I'm just going to assume the gas puddle was from me loosening it up, and not a leak elsewhere till i get the starter fixed. I got all the gaskets, and parts

I'm assuming you have the exact size wrenches that your using on the hex nut and your not using pliers!! Also, for a better grip you should use flare nut wrenches to avoid stripping or damaging the hex nut (Sears has them). The steel line is pretty flexible you would have to do some serious bending to actually cause it to break and leak.

I might pick up some flare nut wrenches from sears tommarow, and I really hope i dont have aleak anywhere.

I will update you with progress, thank you very much Ammar.

[GRAND_LS 4]

I CAN FINALLY SEE MY STARTER!!!

yup, finally got that fuel line out, and hopefully no damage was done to the other end of the steel fuel lines.

I'm calling it a day for now, and tommarow, im going to go out and buy some gaskets for the rear coolent pipe and housing, and try and remove that stupid engine wire harness in the back (anyone got any part numbers for the gasket?!!)

hopefully, I will have the starter out by tommarow night.

Here is an update to the current situation, feel free to request any other angles if you would like:

What a mess huh? its not as bad as it seems :)

Thats the starter in the dead center, they couldnt have placed it in a further location if they tried

Opps... not sure how this one got in :)

[lexus400]

I dread the day mine goes. It's a '91 with 180k on it !! I hope I have a few more years to go !

Excellent updates and pics that will help someone along the way. You're probably saving close to

$1,000 so it'w worth it. Just don't figure out your hourly rate :)

Bob

[alsalih]

There you go, you got. Just two things to watch out for 1) insert paper towels inside the intake openings to keep dirt/sand and possible parts from falling inside 2) Don't take a chance with any gasket or o-ring you remove, replace it while your in there, which it sounds like your doing anyway.