Warranty Leniency?

[byohzrd]

My transmission just died at 71,258 miles... a mere 1,258 miles beyond the limits of the Lexus powertrain warranty. Has anyone ever experienced or heard of Lexus being lenient regarding the terms of the warranty? From a business standpoint, I can understand them strictly adhering to the 70,000 mile limit, but as I'm sitting here without a car, I'm hoping to see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel before I decide where to have my car towed. If the dealership will be somewhat forgiving, I'll take it there. If not, I'll take it to my trusted mechanic so I can save some cash.

Happy holidays and such.

[lenore]

Treat the dealer nice, and see if they will bite, if they don't give you a break, take it elsewhere, It will save you thousands.

[Toysrme]

Get in touch with Lexus & Toyota Corp offices. You're most likely *BLEEP*ed tho... They're under 0 obligation to fix it.

Maybe time for us to troubleshoot it. ;)

[byohzrd]

My bad... the car actually has 70,094 miles on it. Just 94 miles out of warranty. I've contacted both Lexus headquarters and my local dealership. I've been told to have the car towed to the dealership tomorrow and to bring any documentation of transmission service. At 70,000 miles, I can't find any indication of transmission service in the service schedule, other than to inspect the fluid. When I checked the transmission fluid this afternoon, it was still quite red, so I'm assuming it's been inspected and ok'd.

Anyway, I'm just rambling trying to avoid becoming too frustrated with the situation. Luckily I'm off work until Tuesday... and hopefully I'll have a Lexus loaner by then.

Any crossing of fingers would be much appreciated.

[Toysrme]

Welp I'm looking at the 2000 FSM.

It should have Toyota Type-IV fluid.

Inspect every 24 months / 30,000miles.

Oddly the differential should be inspected every 12 months / 15,000m.

[lexusk8]

Just to share upon my transmission troubles, I had my tranny problems in my '01 ES at around 98,600 miles which took place last year. The tranny was not shifting properly, the RPMs would go really high for 1st or 2nd gears, and the list goes on. Luckily, I had extended warranty to back me up, but it was aftermarket so the amount of coverage wasn't up to my expectations. The CEL and TRAC OFF lights went on, and Autozone detected the problem to be a malfunction in the transmission solenoid. So long story short, Lexus dealership replaced the transmission with a remanufactured one off of another 2001 ES300 which had just 45K miles on the clock. I ended up paying 50% of the costs, while the extended warranty paid the rest.

[byohzrd]

Okay. So yesterday I had my car towed to the mechanic I've been using for years... just to get his opinion. He called this morning saying my car is driving just fine. He's going to let it sit for a few hours and then try again, just to see if he can get the transmission issue to come back. I swear... I must be going crazy.

So now I'm even more frustrated than I was before. I'd much rather have him tell me the transmission is shot and spend $4K on a new one than drive around in a car that I personally know has transmission issues. Especially since the Lexus dealership seems willing to at least negotiate the terms of the warranty. If the problem goes away and then comes back a few months from now, I'll really be screwed.

So... those of you who know a thing or two about transmissions, I'd appreciate your diagnosis: The car was driving beautifully up until yesterday. No indication whatsoever that the transmission was going out. I parked the car, and then when I went to lunch, the transmission acted up. First I put it in reverse, backed up about two feet and then it thunked and felt like it had gone into neutral. So I pulled forward, tried reverse again, and it didn't budge... just went straight to neutral. I turned the car off and tried again... same thing... reverse didn't work. I let the car sit for about and hour, then tried again, first letting it warm up to operating temperature. Still no reverse. So I revved it up a bit and it thunked into gear and shot backward. I put it in drive at this point and started driving around the parking lot. It lurched around and the transmission sounded like it was grinding rocks or something. So I parked it and had it towed.

So my question is this. If the transmission were going out, wouldn't the car drive funny? Wouldn't there be some indication that the transmission was having issues before it simply went kapoot? Wouldn't the CEL come on? And now, why would it be driving just fine? Could there have been a clog in the transmission fluid filter (if there is such a thing)? I just don't get it.

Sorry for the long post, but at this point I'm just damn frustrated. Any insight would be much appreciated.

[monarch]

These are electronically controlled transmissions. So at the first hint of any shifting abnormality the car should be towed and diagnoised. An independent shop mechanic may not know how to retrieve the electronic trouble codes and interpret them and therefore may say "you need a new transmission".

Typically the electronic shift control solenoids go out (though usually not until 100-200K miles) and are fairly inexpensive and easy to replace. The fact that the car intermittently drive fine and the fluid is pinkish are both good signs the transmission mechanicals are still in good shape and only the transmission electronics need to be fixed (assuming you didn't damage any mechanicals when trying to drive the car with faulty electronics)

[Toysrme]

Normally the only warning signs is the fluid & particles in it - then you get shift quality issues & slipping. Don't drive a transmissin that's slipping.

First I put it in reverse, backed up about two feet and then it thunked and felt like it had gone into neutral. So I pulled forward, tried reverse again, and it didn't budge... Just went straight to neutral.

So the transmission is slipping, or the gear shifter really is moving to neutral?

About like always, flush it. Drop the pan & see what's going on in there. Do a line pressure test. See what condition it's in now.

Edited December 23, 2005 by Toysrme

[1990LS400]

My advice is to get your car to a Lexus dealer ASAP for an evaluation. Even if it is OK now, doing this will register the issue in case it fails later - you will then have a better chance of getting future transmission problems fixed under warranty.

[Lexusfreak]

I think if you take the car to the Lexus dealer & there is a major tranny problem, they will ask to see the service records of tranny flushes.......if you have none (any idea where the car was serviced before you got it?) I'm not sure they will be reasonabe for any repairs.

[byohzrd]

Just got a call from the dealership... the cel code indicated a solenoid. They're going to run full diagnostics on the car to find out exactly what the problem is (approximately $300 labor). Any idea what it costs to fix the solenoid?

Also, regarding the service records... I bought the car with 38K miles and haven't had the transmission serviced since. Is there a way for Lexus to pull the records of any service that was done at the dealership? I'm almost afraid to ask at this point, since they've already got the upper hand.

[monarch]

If it had been my car I would have ordered the two (three?) shift control solenoids from 1sttoyotparts.com

for 28% off retail. That means for a couple hundred bucks I could have the solenoids in hand and then just pay a Toyota dealer 1 hour labor to install them. Then my total money out of pocket expense would have been only $300-400. Unfortunately it kinda looks like you'll have to spend more like $1,000 because the dealer is charging $300 for diagnosis and then will likely charge retail Lexus dealer prices for the solenoids + Lexus dealer labor cost. However, maybe the Lexus dealer will decide to cover the expense under the 6 year / 70,000 mile powertrain warranty? Or cover part of the cost?

[byohzrd]

The transmission is shot. Even with proper service records, Lexus claims that the problem was caused by negligence on my part. They want $3,795 to install a remanufactured transmission... in addition to the $270 they charged me to diagnose the problem. I'm having the car towed to a local tranmission company that specializes in Toyotas. They're going to rebuild the transmission themselves with Camry parts... for $2,300... afterwhich I'll probably sell the car.

Ironically, even with the high reliability marks Lexus receives, this has been the worst car I've ever owned. I bought the car with full dealership service records and have meticulously maintained the car. However, it has been in the shop more than any other car I have owned, including my BMW.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's input on my transmission issues. If I decide to keep the car, I'm sure I'll be back for more advice. :)

[Toysrme]

Lexus claims that the problem was caused by negligence on my part.

*BLEEP* them LoL! Find your reciepts, or logs of your vehicle. (If serviced at Lexus, call another lex/yota dealer & ask for the service history.)

Then !Removed! slap them.

You've got an A541-E transmission. Grab a used one for under a grand, have somebody slap it in. Then you can keep it, or ditch it.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Toysrme

[lexusk8]

The transmission is shot. Even with proper service records, Lexus claims that the problem was caused by negligence on my part. They want $3,795 to install a remanufactured transmission... in addition to the $270 they charged me to diagnose the problem. I'm having the car towed to a local tranmission company that specializes in Toyotas. They're going to rebuild the transmission themselves with Camry parts... for $2,300... afterwhich I'll probably sell the car.

Ironically, even with the high reliability marks Lexus receives, this has been the worst car I've ever owned. I bought the car with full dealership service records and have meticulously maintained the car. However, it has been in the shop more than any other car I have owned, including my BMW.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's input on my transmission issues. If I decide to keep the car, I'm sure I'll be back for more advice. :)

Unfortunately, given the conditions you've already stated about your transmission state, I'm not surprised to hear about the outcome. From my readings in this and the ClubLexus forum, this seems to happen a lot to ES's whose transmission has been overworked and/or improperly taken care of (such as my '01 which was bought 2-1/2 yrs ago w/ 64K miles and was originally used as a business fleet vehicle). Like I said before, I've already been through my share of tranny troubles, but in some portion I lucked out with the help of extended warranty. However you just barely surpassed the limits of your 6 year/70,000 mile powertrain warranty at the time of your transmission issue, and that kinda leaves you with no outs. You may just have to bite the bullet and get the tranny rebuilt or cheaply replaced with a reman tranny, and consider whatever else you plan to do with the ES afterwards. Good luck.

[tckcumming]

Ironically, even with the high reliability marks Lexus receives, this has been the worst car I've ever owned. I bought the car with full dealership service records and have meticulously maintained the car. However, it has been in the shop more than any other car I have owned, including my BMW.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's input on my transmission issues. If I decide to keep the car, I'm sure I'll be back for more advice. :)

Sorry to read about your troubles... Lexus are generally very reliable as a rule, but they are just cars, Toyota makes the odd "lemon", too. Too bad you got one of those!

How is the rest of the car?? If it's just a broken tranny...

You've got an A541-E transmission. Grab a used one for under a grand, have somebody slap it in. Then you can keep it, or ditch it.

... I'd look for a good low mileage used one at a wrecker & get it installed. Cheaper, and any good auto wrecker (sorry,... "recycler") will give you some kind of a warranty.

And....

*BLEEP* them LoL! Find your reciepts, or logs of your vehicle. (If serviced at Lexus, call another lex/yota dealer & ask for the service history.)

Then !Removed! slap them.

... I agree! Have you tried going over the dealer's head, to a regional rep or something? Ask them what has happened to their so-called reliability and the "ownership experience" they're always going on about?? Tell them that your experience has sucked !! They need people like you and me as repeat buyers, don't let them off the hook so easily. Toyota and ESPECIALLY Lexus treasure their "owner satisfaction" ratings... use this knowledge to make them come good. If you express how thoroughly disillusioned you are with their product, they might just cough up some cash. This strategy HAS worked for me in the past.

Remember - they need you (and your future automotive spending) more than you need them!

Just my opinion.

tck...

[byohzrd]

Thanks for the comments, folks. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure this is a closed case. The final decision came from the regional manager, not the dealership. I called Lexus HQ, and they told me it was ultimately the decision of the dealership and regional manager. I'm tired of stressing about it, so I'm not going to fight it.

From a business perspective, I can understand them not fixing it... they're not contractually obligated to do so. However, being a Public Relations Director, I think it is very unwise on their part not to help me out. I'd actually been working with one of the salesman at this dealership, and was looking at getting a new GS or GX in March. I was happy to inform them that their lack of service was the deciding factor in my not purchasing a Lexus again. Ever. Not only are they not fixing my car, but they refused to give me a loaner over the weekend (even though I did pay them to perform a diagnostic service on the car) which resulted in my having to cancel quite a few of my Christmas plans.

The car has been towed to a local transmission shop, where they're rebuilding it for $2,500. As soon as I get it back, I'll be trading it in for something new. Right now a new Hyundai with a 10 year/100,000 mile warranty is looking really, really nice. I've tried German and Japanese... maybe I'll have better luck with Korean.