Two Oxygen Sesors For $600

[jschunke]

My dad's 93 LS engine light went on just

after he filled it up with gas. The dealer

took $600 to replace two 02 sensors. Ouch!

My guess is the sensor would have cleared

up on the next tank of gas.

[mburnickas]

My dad's 93 LS engine light went on just

after he filled it up with gas. The dealer

took $600 to replace two 02 sensors. Ouch!

My guess is the sensor would have cleared

up on the next tank of gas.

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Might have might not have. On average or in general they last about 100K miles and then need to be replaced. You should check them before replacing them.

But $600? Seem like they add about $200 beans for labor when I am sure you could have done it in about 60 minutes.

[monarch]

With the new sensors installed fuel economy is likely to increase 1-2 MPG so that will help offset the cost of the new sensors.

The new sensors will also extend the life of the catalytic converter and EGR system components which not only saves money in the long run, but also maintains engine power and fuel economy at optimum levels.

Aftermarket sensors are less expensive, but do not last as long. For example the company Walker recommends owners replace their oxygen sensors every 30,000 miles.

[mburnickas]

With the new sensors installed fuel economy is likely to increase 1-2 MPG so that will help offset the cost of the new sensors.

The new sensors will also extend the life of the catalytic converter and EGR system components which not only saves money in the long run, but also maintains engine power and fuel economy at optimum levels.

Aftermarket sensors are less expensive, but do not last as long. For example the company Walker recommends owners replace their oxygen sensors every 30,000 miles.

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Bosch $67 (you say 30K; never heard of this but I will play)

Lexus OEM $188 (last about 100K)

So you take $67 X 3 = $201…Look at the savings!!!!!

Or better yet save about $140 and buy a Denso Universal O2 sensor for about $45.

I know in my ES the EGR is a poor design (thanks to Toyota Eng) so the 02 will do nothing to help.

With gas dropping and I do not care; the extra price is not worth it.

[jschunke]

"So you take $67 X 3 = $201…Look at the savings!!!!!"

That equation is not taking into account the labor and hassle

in changing them:

($67 + $100 (diagnosis,labor,hassle)) X 3 = $500

Whether OEM is better than Bosch I have no idea. There is

some peace of mind in using EOM parts.

[mburnickas]

"So you take $67 X 3 = $201…Look at the savings!!!!!"

That equation is not taking into account the labor and hassle

in changing them:

($67 + $100 (diagnosis,labor,hassle)) X 3 = $500

Whether OEM is better than Bosch I have no idea. There is

some peace of mind in using EOM parts.

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$300 for labor and Diagnosis??? You can go to autozone for free to get the codes. Installing them is so easy...like an oil change.....Really like spark plugs (very easy). More then an hour is, BONG, ripoff.

Peace of mind is what you make it. For the extra $140 EACH, peace of mind can be bought! :D But that is me. Anything more then $150 Universal for 2 or approx $360 OEM is enough. Then again I would test them to check volts before trashing a sensor.

You are not doing a timing belt here. It is an O2 sensor here! Hassle, well, if you can afford it ........(approx$250 more then I would pay). Then need people to pay for the garage lease! :D

[jschunke]

Point taken, burnickas. Actually, your preaching to the

choir. There's not a chance in hell I'd pay $600 for two

sensors. But he took it to the stealer before I had a chance

to investigate the situation. All of your comments are

appreciated. Thanks.

[Lexusfreak]

Nothing wrong with Bosch o2 sensors........they actually invented them & have used them in the past myself without any problems. $600 seems quite high to me however.

[mburnickas]

Point taken, burnickas. Actually, your preaching to the

choir. There's not a chance in hell I'd pay $600 for two

sensors. But he took it to the stealer before I had a chance

to investigate the situation. All of your comments are

appreciated. Thanks.

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Not trying to be mean but $600 is a lot. That is one reason why I hate dealerships. I only go there IF I HAVE to or for a TB, WP or belts. The rest I can do. I know they need to mkae money but when you walk in the door, you need a gold card just for an oil change!

[mburnickas]

Nothing wrong with Bosch o2 sensors........they actually invented them & have used them in the past myself without any problems.  $600 seems quite high to me however. 

 

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Bosch = bling bling :D :D :D :D :D I have used them in my mustang when I had it. No probems. My ES is going on 90K miles and I jsut tested them via my scanner. So far they are working just fine and not showing any replacment in the near future.

[aamir007]

I own a 1993 LS 400 with 121k milage. It's started to skip on RPM 1800. Mechanic told me to change all 4 Oxygen Sensor which cost $300. I bought all 4 from http://www.rockauto.com/ for $25 for front and $45 for back once. They were with universal plugs but worked fine!

[dole2000]

I have 215K on my 91 LS, I had it in for smog today and failed. I need two 02 sensors which will be $108.00 each. There is also some solenoid that isn't closing that has to be replaced. Cost for that will be $80.00 (Toyota part instead of Lexus). So it is going to cost me $400.00 to pass smog. Could have been worse and I could have passed.

[ko90ls]

i got four denso aftermarket OEM replacements for about $300 on sparkplugs.com. worked our fine and the design looks better than the ngk ones

[akewlguy]

Could this really improve 1-2 MPG? Does it effect the LS more in the winter? Seems like my mileage went down one or two MPG.

Might go with the rockauto.com deal. Cheers to LS

[monarch]

http://www.walkerproducts.com/Oxygen%20Sen...d%20Answers.htm

Q:  What is a universal sensor?

A:   A:   A universal sensor is a base sensor, which does not include

the direct fit connector.  Splicing is necessary for installation. 

Universals were widely used in the early years of vehicles equipped with

oxygen sensors.

 The possibility exists that the user could select the wrong base sensor

by assuming that all sensors with the same wire count are equal.  All

Oxygen Sensors are not created equally.  Each type is matched to the

make, model and sub-model application and cannot be mixed.  It is

impractical to offer a universal sensor for many applications due to

heater types, ground types and other characteristics.  Improper

selection of the universal sensor could result in serious damage to the

engine management system, including failure of the engine control unit

(ECU) and/or the catalytic converter. 

Q:   Q:  How do I know if a sensor is damaged or not working properly?

A:   A:   Usually the check engine light is illuminated if there is a

failure of the sensor.  Sensors that are not performing at peak

efficiency may not cause the check engine light to illuminate, but will

usually cause a rich shift in air fuel ratio and probably damage the

catalyst. 

[mburnickas]

Do you actually know about things you post on????

The possibility exists that the user could select the wrong base sensor

by assuming that all sensors with the same wire count are equal.  All

Oxygen Sensors are not created equally.  Each type is matched to the

make, model and sub-model application and cannot be mixed

So now if you buy oem you are 100% guaranteed you will get the correct part??? I think not. Also, most times the parts number on the car does not match newer OEM sensor. Nor is the new part the same as the old. If they “up-reved” the part, something changed. It is not the same.

It is  impractical to offer a universal sensor for many applications due to

heater types, ground types and other characteristics.  Improper

selection of the universal sensor could result in serious damage to the

engine management system, including failure of the engine control unit

(ECU) and/or the catalytic converter.

Sound like I am talking to a sales guy here. Just like Lexus reccomends this and that to make them $$$$.

I have used non EOM sensors/parts for years and never had an issues. My wifes old car has over 180K miles on it (friend bought it) and it is on non OEM sensor 1. In fact I had to install slotted and drilled rotors on my car since the OEM parts are a joke. Just some FYI that not all OEM = wonderful product.

But.....

All people have to do is take 5 minutes and check the sensors. Not to hard. Mine are doing just fine; and, I test before I buy. Cheaper too.

Please show me ( test data etc) where OEM is better in vibration, thermal, electrical, structural, longevity them non OEM? Why is it I always find you posting website data then your own.

[monarch]

I have used non EOM sensors/parts for years and never had an issues. My wifes old car has over 180K miles on it (friend bought it) and it is on non OEM sensor

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Genuine Toyota (Denso) oxygen sensors are so effective and durable, they have protected the life of my '92 Toyota catalytic converter and EGR valve and related components for 467,000 miles and counting.

Here are the passing smog test results I got when my '92 Toyota had 451,000 miles still equipped with it's factory original catalytic converter and EGR valve: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/smog92.jpg

During those 451,000 miles I replace the pre-cat oxygen sensor only twice and the post cat sensor only once using genuine Toyota (Denso) sensors purchased for about $105 each from 1sttoyotaparts.com

Now if you visit the Walker oxygen sensor website and other aftermarket brands you'll see they

suggest replacing their oxygen sensors every 30,000 - 50,000 miles to protect the life of the catalytic converter = about only 1/3rd the life of a genuine Toyota (Denso) sensor.

[nc211]

I probably missed that thread, but how do you test your O2 sensors?

Do you actually know about things you post on????

The possibility exists that the user could select the wrong base sensor

by assuming that all sensors with the same wire count are equal.  All

Oxygen Sensors are not created equally.  Each type is matched to the

make, model and sub-model application and cannot be mixed

So now if you buy oem you are 100% guaranteed you will get the correct part??? I think not. Also, most times the parts number on the car does not match newer OEM sensor. Nor is the new part the same as the old. If they “up-reved” the part, something changed. It is not the same.

It is  impractical to offer a universal sensor for many applications due to

heater types, ground types and other characteristics.  Improper

selection of the universal sensor could result in serious damage to the

engine management system, including failure of the engine control unit

(ECU) and/or the catalytic converter.

Sound like I am talking to a sales guy here. Just like Lexus reccomends this and that to make them $$$$.

I have used non EOM sensors/parts for years and never had an issues. My wifes old car has over 180K miles on it (friend bought it) and it is on non OEM sensor 1. In fact I had to install slotted and drilled rotors on my car since the OEM parts are a joke. Just some FYI that not all OEM = wonderful product.

But.....

All people have to do is take 5 minutes and check the sensors. Not to hard. Mine are doing just fine; and, I test before I buy. Cheaper too.

Please show me ( test data etc) where OEM is better in vibration, thermal, electrical, structural, longevity them non OEM? Why is it I always find you posting website data then your own.

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[blake918]

I probably missed that thread, but how do you test your O2 sensors?

There should be 11-16 ohms of resistance between the two terminals on the o2 sensor harness. ;) Chances are that they're ok if the cel is off!

[mburnickas]

I probably missed that thread, but how do you test your O2 sensors?

There should be 11-16 ohms of resistance between the two terminals on the o2 sensor harness. ;) Chances are that they're ok if the cel is off!

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I would rather go by volts at start up and how fast it goes. Ohms chekcing for me, is good for diesel glow plugs.

[mburnickas]

Genuine Toyota (Denso) oxygen sensors are so effective and durable, they have protected the life of my '92 Toyota catalytic converter and EGR valve and related components for 467,000 miles and counting.

Here are the passing smog test results I got when my '92 Toyota had 451,000 miles still equipped with it's factory original catalytic converter and EGR valve: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/smog92.jpg

During those 451,000 miles I replace the pre-cat oxygen sensor only twice and the post cat sensor only once using genuine Toyota (Denso) sensors purchased for about $105 each from 1sttoyotaparts.com

Now if you visit the Walker oxygen sensor website and other aftermarket brands you'll see they

suggest replacing their oxygen sensors every 30,000 - 50,000 miles to protect the life of the catalytic converter =  about only 1/3rd the life of a genuine Toyota (Denso) sensor.

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Even a squirrel can find a nut. Too bad all your wonderful Toyota’s (most times with newer models then a 1992 4 cy) will not even hold up to that duration. Never mind an upcoming 14-year old auto. Too bad my Lexus (CPO) does not hold up like these (at least for the sludge years with EGR issues). You know the years your beloved Toyota Enginneers screwed up!

I do not buy walker, only Bosh for 02 and they last 2 to 3 times longer that what you posted on. Why do you post on the sensor that is the least??? Is that the norm?

Then again I am still waiting on data to support your “effective and durable”. Compared to what. Show me a trade study.

Yup, 1/3 the life as you posted; but they are like 1/3 the price too. Plus I have never EVER replaced an 02 sensor before 100K no matter the manufacture. That has been since I have been driving too!

Again, you have yet to provide any real data from tests; OEM vs non OEM. And I have to take your word on this forum for every stating that you replaced this and that. I had a Toyota before my Lexus and again it was not that great of a car by any means. I would show you the repair slips but for what? You think Toyota is great when it was worse them my last American car. Again all manufacures have issues; it is part of human design. They will never EVER get it perfect,they can't.

To close, you are trying to compare a 14 year old truck with a 4-banger to boot in the LS section??? Hell my bike with no smog crap can do that. I find nothing even factual from another famous monarch picture.

[blake918]

I would rather go by volts at start up and how fast it goes. Ohms chekcing for me, is good for diesel glow plugs.

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I'm just stating the factory repair manual's procedure to check them! ;)

[mburnickas]

I would rather go by volts at start up and how fast it goes. Ohms chekcing for me, is good for diesel glow plugs.

←

I'm just stating the factory repair manual's procedure to check them! ;)

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I agree but OHMS changes with heat etc. I would rather see what the sensor is really seeing. Mine at like 0.415 volts and then move after about 10 seconds starting. They go up to 0.700 volts.But the normal is around 0.55 to 0.600. At least this is what my snap-on scanner states.

Then again changing a 02 sensor in the complete sys can do nothing too. If they are going bad you need to find out why they are.

This is what I did a few months ago:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...topic=23289&hl=

[nc211]

Man, I can't figure out what in the hell you're trying to say?? I mean no harm, and I'm not picking at you either, but I'm totally lost on your posts?? It's quite possible that I've been hangin' with the Govenator too much, but you've lost me amigo????

Genuine Toyota (Denso) oxygen sensors are so effective and durable, they have protected the life of my '92 Toyota catalytic converter and EGR valve and related components for 467,000 miles and counting.

Here are the passing smog test results I got when my '92 Toyota had 451,000 miles still equipped with it's factory original catalytic converter and EGR valve: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/smog92.jpg

During those 451,000 miles I replace the pre-cat oxygen sensor only twice and the post cat sensor only once using genuine Toyota (Denso) sensors purchased for about $105 each from 1sttoyotaparts.com

Now if you visit the Walker oxygen sensor website and other aftermarket brands you'll see they

suggest replacing their oxygen sensors every 30,000 - 50,000 miles to protect the life of the catalytic converter =  about only 1/3rd the life of a genuine Toyota (Denso) sensor.

←

Even a squirrel can find a nut. Too bad all your wonderful Toyota’s (most times with newer models then a 1992 4 cy) will not even hold up to that duration. Never mind an upcoming 14-year old auto. Too bad my Lexus (CPO) does not hold up like these (at least for the sludge years with EGR issues). You know the years your beloved Toyota Enginneers screwed up!

I do not buy walker, only Bosh for 02 and they last 2 to 3 times longer that what you posted on. Why do you post on the sensor that is the least??? Is that the norm?

Then again I am still waiting on data to support your “effective and durable”. Compared to what. Show me a trade study.

Yup, 1/3 the life as you posted; but they are like 1/3 the price too. Plus I have never EVER replaced an 02 sensor before 100K no matter the manufacture. That has been since I have been driving too!

Again, you have yet to provide any real data from tests; OEM vs non OEM. And I have to take your word on this forum for every stating that you replaced this and that. I had a Toyota before my Lexus and again it was not that great of a car by any means. I would show you the repair slips but for what? You think Toyota is great when it was worse them my last American car. Again all manufacures have issues; it is part of human design. They will never EVER get it perfect,they can't.

To close, you are trying to compare a 14 year old truck with a 4-banger to boot in the LS section??? Hell my bike with no smog crap can do that. I find nothing even factual from another famous monarch picture.

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[nc211]

Those who made it, make it ;)

I would rather go by volts at start up and how fast it goes. Ohms chekcing for me, is good for diesel glow plugs.

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I'm just stating the factory repair manual's procedure to check them! ;)

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