Timing Belt.

[bluestu]

I'm having the timing belt replaced on my RX300 at 90k and was wondering if I should go ahead and replace the water pump while they have it apart???

[jgr7]

Yes.

Jeff

[Booyah]

DONT EVEN THINK TWICE ABOUT IT DO IT!!!!

Been there didnt do that and I had to do it all over again---no fun and a waste of money

[bluestu]

Thanks guys!!! I just wanted to get some second opinions. I appreciate it!!!

[wwest]

Take a good look at the timing belt they take out and then ask yourself if this whole 90k thing isn't one HUGE scam!

When timing belts first started being used instead of timing chains no one could be sure of the lifetime. After 15 years, and with continuous product improvements to boot, it has become pretty obvious that they are likely longer lasting than timing chains. But your dealer will be the absolute last to advise you of that fact, nice high profit revenue stream.

[bluestu]

Well then, how long do you think the timing belt will last or should last??? It would be a drag to not replace it and have it break. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[j.barleycorn]

Impossible to tell whether to change a timing belt or not, but rightly or wrongly I have never changed one on any vehicle I have ever owned, and never had one fail. As long as your engine type will not be damaged if the belt breaks, and you can afford to be stranded/inconvenienced if it does, the cost is about the same as fixing it ahead of time!

Currently, my 1996 Toyota 4Runner (175,000 miles) and 2000 Honda Odyssey (120,000) still have the original belts. (Knocking loudly on wood!)

I hope to change the belts on these if/when the water pump goes, instead of the other way around. Seems the pump would go before the belt... but what do I know? Good luck!

[dcfish]

Impossible to tell whether to change a timing belt or not, but rightly or wrongly I have never changed one on any vehicle I have ever owned, and never had one fail.  As long as your engine type will not be damaged if the belt breaks, and you can afford to be stranded/inconvenienced if it does, the cost is about the same as fixing it ahead of time!

Currently, my 1996 Toyota 4Runner (175,000 miles) and 2000 Honda Odyssey (120,000) still have the original belts.  (Knocking loudly on wood!)

I hope to change the belts on these if/when the water pump goes, instead of the other way around.  Seems the pump would go before the belt... but what do I know?  Good luck!

←

Definetly change the water pump while you are in there, Think about it, Most people only change the timing belt once in the life of ownership unless you are keeping the car forever. It is well worth the $ to change it rather than the headache of it failing.

[cardona6569]

Take a good look at the timing belt they take out and then ask yourself if this whole 90k thing isn't one HUGE scam!

When timing belts first started being used instead of timing chains no one could be sure of the lifetime. After 15 years, and with continuous product improvements to boot, it has become pretty obvious that they are likely longer lasting than timing chains. But your dealer will be the absolute last to advise you of that fact, nice high profit revenue stream.

←

Greetings

I just want to know if you let the belt break on the 400 LS, if it will destroy the engine, or just the belt goes and you replace it and keep going, no destruction?

Sincerely,

C. PR

[j.barleycorn]

Accorning to this Gates document, all Lexus engines through 1998 are non-interference.

www.audiworld.com/tech/pix/timingbelt.pdf

Not that I am advocating to drive a car until the timing belt breaks.

[sakaike]

Here's another data point for you to consider, although the final decision is obviously up to you. My Acura 2.2CL maintenance schedule also recommends that the timing belt be changed out at 90,000 miles. There is virtually no way to predict when one might fail, but I rolled the dice and waited until 150,000 miles, and then yes, changed the water pump at the same time.

For me it was all about cash flow. I didn't have the money at 90,000, but I did at 150,000. I know I'll get rid of the car before 200,000, so whoever gets it next will be good shape for awhile, assuming everything else holds together, which is currently the case.

[RX in NC]

Toyota timing belts are better than average. I don't plan on changing the timing belt on my wife's 2000 RX300 until at least 120,000 miles.

[lenore]

Hey RX and I think you are safe to do that, I inspected the timing belt that was removed at 100k and it looked great, the teeth were perfectly square with very little wear indicated, no cracks or heat fatigue, I could still read the part # and manufacturer label. However the water pump was OK too, but I felt a rough spot in the bearing when I rolled pulley. Changing it was a excellent choice. PS how is the tile job going.

[monarch]

Your RX300 has variable valve timing. So the valvetrain POSTIVELY WILL BE DESTROYED if the timing belt ever breaks. However, Toyota uses a super heavy duty timing belt on variable valve timing engines. Therefore a safe replacement interval for many drivers is in the 120,000 - 150,000 mile range. Since the life of a Toyota water pump is in the 120,000 - 240,000 mile range, it makes sense to change both the timing belt and water pump in the 120,000 - 150,000 mile range.

PS. Always use a 50/50 mix of genuine Toyota Long Life Antifreeze and distilled water when replacing the engine coolant to be assurred of 120,000 - 240,000 miles of water pump life. Since service shops - including Lexus dealers - may cut corners in this regard, buy the Toyota coolant at a Toyota Dealer Parts Dept and distilled water at a supermarket yourself and take it to the service shop and order them to use it.

PSS: Leadfoot type city driving causes the timing belt to wear more quickly so those kinds of driviers should change the timing belt at 90,000 miles.

[wwest]

Water pump "life".

The most common cause of water pump failure results from the seal failure between the pump impeller and the shaft bearing. Once the seal fails the bearing will be exposed to excess coolant leakage and then it will fail shortly thereafter.

There is always a "seep" opening in front (away from the engine) of the bearing so that slight seal leakage, which cannot be prevented, doesn't build up over time and result in bearing failure.

I have never encountered a "total" water pump failure since the odor of anti-freeze always forewarns me of an impending failure.

[monarch]

I agree wwest that it is the seal that actually fails. The Toyota Long Life Antifreeze is silicate free to prevent abrasive damage to the water pump seal. And unlike auto parts store brands of antifreeze, the Toyota antifreeze contains a healthy dose of molybedenum lubricant

[strmrdr23]

Impossible to tell whether to change a timing belt or not, but rightly or wrongly I have never changed one on any vehicle I have ever owned, and never had one fail.  As long as your engine type will not be damaged if the belt breaks, and you can afford to be stranded/inconvenienced if it does, the cost is about the same as fixing it ahead of time!

Currently, my 1996 Toyota 4Runner (175,000 miles) and 2000 Honda Odyssey (120,000) still have the original belts.  (Knocking loudly on wood!)

I hope to change the belts on these if/when the water pump goes, instead of the other way around.  Seems the pump would go before the belt... but what do I know?  Good luck!

←

hmmm, an interesting take...personally, i'm of the preventative-maintenance school of thought and i figure i've rode this timing belt for about 100k, it's time to change them. i'm not trying to be that guy driving up to canada or whatever and be in the middle of nowhere with kids in the backseat and then have my car take a dump on me...it ain't cheap but on the flip side, if it does break on me because i neglected to change it before hand, i'm gonna WISH i had... ;)

[mikey00]

Accorning to this Gates document, all Lexus engines through 1998 are non-interference.

www.audiworld.com/tech/pix/timingbelt.pdf

Not that I am advocating to drive a car until the timing belt breaks.

←

That's an old Gates document posted on audiworld. The new one shows the RX as having an interference engine.

[lenore]

bearings can still fail from breakdown of the lubricant without outside contamination. I saw no sign of antifreeze leakage, only a rough bearing. So beware of this kind of failure.

[RX in NC]

lenore,

In response to your question on how the kitchen wall tile job is going, we decided to remove the five double electrical plug boxes that were built into this wall and install new flat-based power outlets underneath the overhead cabinets. It was a touchy little job that took some advance planning and some new thin-mount plug boxes designed for under-cabinet mounting. All the new wiring is contained and hidden within molding that runs underneath the cabinets into the walls. That task was accomplished last weekend with the greatly-needed assistance of my electrician son-in-law, and just last night I finished patching and joint compounding the five holes in the wall where the original plug boxes used to be. The wall will look much better without the plug boxes breaking up the tile pattern every three feet or so, and it greatly reduces the number of funky cuts that I'll have to make since now I'm left with only the two light switches on either end of the wall.

I talked my wife into dropping down to just two different tile sizes instead of her original plan which used three. That will make the tile job go a little easier and faster. I'll probably purchase the tiles later this week, and I'm leaning towards renting a contractor-quality wet saw from Home Depot for a couple of days. Using fast-setting mastick as my tile adhesive, I think I can get all the tile up within a 48-hour timeframe. I hope to get this done during Thanksgiving weekend coming up. Then it will just be a matter of selecting, spreading, and sealing the appropriate grout. Grouting will be a piece of cake compared to the tiling.

This project should turn out nicely and I look forward to getting it behind me. I've tiled a number of floors over the past 20 years but never a wall before now. I doubt if you have nearly as much time to get the wall tiles seated and adjusted as you do with floor tiles, so I know it will be a new experience for me. I'll go to school on those first three or four tiles and then I hope to be rockin' and rollin' along....

[lenore]

Hey, thats great, you will probably do better than the professionals, they are on the clock and tend to rush. Happy Thanks giving.

[bluestu]

Well, I had the timing belt, water pump, and serpentine belts replaced. I also had a radiator flush and transmission flush which the mechanic said is an absolute must with that type of transmission. He said a lot of fluid gets trapped in the torque converter and cannot be drained out. He said old school guys come in the shop all the time and argue with him about the necessity of a flush.

My total cost was $700.00. A bit pricey, but I'm 100% sure that the job was done right. Well worth the money. I appreciate everyone's input on this topic, as well as many others.

[crich8136]

I am mystified! My son's LS400 has a failed idler (maybe 2) on the timing belt. In the process of pulling parts out of the engine to get to the timing belt, I cannot find anything that looks like a water pump. The bearing that holds the fan and clutch (which I expected to be the water pump) has no water inlet or outlet.

Can someone tell me where the water pump is, please? Are there any photos on the site that show the pump?

Parts dealers show a water pump that looks nothing like anything we have seen but then they also say "this photo is not application specific."

Thanks for any help you can give.

cr

[monarch]

'90-'97 LS400 timing belt replacement

http://www.lexls.com/tutorials/engine/timingbelt.html

[crich8136]

Thanks. I found the tutorial. Everything is very clear now.

cr