rosecityrain Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Although just signed up, I have been reading for a long time. You guys are fabulous and have done me and my 1992 ES300 many favors. Thought you might enjoy the story of how I came to own my baby. My brother-in-law bought this car brand new and drove it until 3 years ago. He and his wife were in a remote part of Idaho visiting relatives when the Lexus started to shift poorly, then not at all. Since I had casually said to him that anytime he wanted to rid himself of the car to call me, he called and said "want a free Lexus?" I said "yes" and he said I had to go get it and fix it (well, almost free) and he sent me the title. Now, evidently his wife had decided the car needed a new transmission and had called around for pricing information on a new transmission. Discovering that the price of a new transmission was too much for such an old car (220,000 miles) they decided to buy a new one. And so, they did. We had the car brought to Portland on a dolly. I sourced out the re-manufacturer of transmissions on the west coast right here in Portland and had the new one put into the trunk and drove it to the mechanic who was to replace it. (Estimate $1800.00 for the transmission and another $500.00 to put it in) By the way, the Lexus was mysteriously now working okay.......(hint: cold weather) Got a call from the mechanic. He could not condemn the transmission. Nothing wrong with it! Needed a new radiator (lucked out and got a metal one: total cost $134.00) Evidently, when the car overheats, things start to go into some kind of mode to protect the systems. True or not generally, this is what happened here. Both the air conditioning and the transmission were not working for the in-laws but have since been fine. I have since put some money into spark plugs and cables and having the driver's seat sewn up and a few other small things. Car runs like a dream! It looks new since it has always been garaged. Paint is perfect. Interior perfect (I went over it with Lexol) Oh, the sunroof cable broke and the sunroof guys disconnected something so that it doesn't open and doesn't hang funny or leak in the rain. Just doesn't open anymore. Oh well, a small matter. I've had the air conditioning stuff replaced. We put in Mobile 1 (thanks to you all!) and now use only premium gasoline (ditto) There are no oil leaks or leaks of any kind. My brother in law had about $2000 worth of gasket and seal replacements the year before he gave up, so lucky me! I sold my PT Cruiser and am now happily riding around in my Lexus until it gives up the ghost (and a happy halloween to all!) Just turned over 252,000 miles. (It now blows some blue smoke on start up. I don't drive it often or long distances and oil changes are done like clockwork. No oil on the garage floor. So, something will need attention at some point. Input welcome if you are so moved.) Again, many thanks! rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKperformance Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 congates and welcome Blue smoke at startup is usually from valve stem seals dripping down oil when the car is off and cools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 congates and welcomeBlue smoke at startup is usually from valve stem seals dripping down oil when the car is off and cools. ← Thanks! So, what does that mean in terms of urgency of repair? Should I have something done soon to protect the engine or is this a minor problem that requires no immediate concern but watchful waiting? I do watch the oil levels and add as necessary but it isn't using lots of oil (yet?) I have a terrific mechanic here in Portland and a family member who is a Toyota mechanic in a dealership living about 3 hours away......... rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKperformance Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I would use a higer viscosity oil to prevent the glow by gases. Also a nice product like seafoam before an oil change will help the seals to expand and seal better . It is not really urgent but keep an eye on your oil consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Ya what sk's telling you. Valve stem seals are nothing. They're so funny! They're $1 a pack of 12, but you have to take the heads off & the valvetrain out to change them! hahahahahahahaha It's not urgent. I wouldn't even worry about them (by themselves) until it's just embarrassing you so much. Whenever you do break down & have them done, take the heads to an engine mahcinist & have them cleaned, checked/repaired, & a valve/shim job done. If you're a pimp, a $150-200 3-angle valve job + $100-200 quick porting & polishing job will make them flow much more. Cheap power if that's your thing! =) As always, I suggest quitting premium gas. The 3vz-fe was designed to run 87, then detuned from that point. Save your $4-5 a tank from not running premium for other maint. Like spark plugs, or transmission fluid changes. Shoot the money off one tank of gas most places could buy a big bottle of brake fluid + a quart of transmission fluid, or enough transmision fluid to change the powersteering & differential! Heck! Two tanks would buy a new rotor & cap for the distributor, or an air filter/air filter adapter+pod filter. Three tanks, you could add an auxillary transmission cooler, or an oil filter relocator, plus an aux oil cooler! LoL! The possibilities what you can do constructive for car life @ $5 every week or two is endless. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 I will call my mechanic about the valves tomorrow and see how those prices hold up here. If that is what we are talking about, I'll just go ahead and have the job done. You say take them to an engine machinist. Is this as opposed to a mechanic? Will they take the parts apart and put them back together after all the suggested repairs, cleaning etc? I'm pretty good at sourcing as long as I know what I am looking for. Never been called a pimp.........but Ido like the idea of cheap power....so far, no performance problems. The reason I have been using premium gas is primarily the advice from this board. Now I am a bit confused. I have no problem saving money or spending it on something else (new shoes, Lexus, whatever....) Even Click and Clack (or as I call them, "Motor Mouths") suggest premium. Transmission has been serviced and the fluid is changed every so oftem (husband) as well as religious oil changes(ditto said husband) Currently using 5W30 oil Mobil 1. Higher viscosity suggested would be...what, exactly? 10W40? The last board discussion on seafoam was also a bit confusing as to how, exactly, one is to apply this elixir.......add to oil? I'm sure my husband can do this as long as I can adequately communicate what I am talking about (I'll show him your answer rather than try to explain it myself) I don't mean to sound dense, but if the stilletto fits....... Thanks rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93lexuses Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Congrats and Welcome! If you get a chance post some pictures. We love pictures! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenore Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 It is possible to change valve stem seals without removing the heads. Mechanics now can pressurise the cylinder to hold valve up and replace the stem seals without removing the head, had that done on a mercedes a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 lenore yes. The valvetrain still has to come out & if the valvetrain is out - the heads might as well come off for newer, higher quality head gaskets that have become resent available to us! (Victor's Nitroseal @ Napa are the strongest non-custom replacements out for 2vz/3vz's since they don't get the multi-layer-steel gaskets later v6's now have access to.) It's also a great time to get any valve adjustments / valve jobs done. rosecityrain "I like my money right where I can see it... hanging in my closet!". Later engines are tuned to run on higher octane gas. Yours (ours) is not & sees no benefit from it. Performance actually lowers because the gas is more stable than it needs to be. Normally, you give your car to a mechanic (Or performance shop) & if they have something to do requiring metal working (Like engine building / custom work / good valve jobs / porting) they'll send the stuff to a machinist. If you just give a machinist what they want, normally you can get a good deal if they need to do something. They don't do mechanical work. Unfortunately They won't take your car apart for you. (I was just throwing the idea out there. Most "common" performance mods don't do anything for our engines. Regardless of how their parts may look, the factory did a good job & most of the time there is no-to little performance to gain.) I'll just break down & write a guide on Seafoam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 lenore yes. The valvetrain still has to come out & if the valvetrain is out - the heads might as well come off for newer, higher quality head gaskets that have become resent available to us!(Victor's Nitroseal @ Napa are the strongest non-custom replacements out for 2vz/3vz's since they don't get the multi-layer-steel gaskets later v6's now have access to.) It's also a great time to get any valve adjustments / valve jobs done. rosecityrain "I like my money right where I can see it... hanging in my closet!". Later engines are tuned to run on higher octane gas. Yours (ours) is not & sees no benefit from it. Performance actually lowers because the gas is more stable than it needs to be. Normally, you give your car to a mechanic (Or performance shop) & if they have something to do requiring metal working (Like engine building / custom work / good valve jobs / porting) they'll send the stuff to a machinist. If you just give a machinist what they want, normally you can get a good deal if they need to do something. They don't do mechanical work. Unfortunately They won't take your car apart for you. (I was just throwing the idea out there. Most "common" performance mods don't do anything for our engines. Regardless of how their parts may look, the factory did a good job & most of the time there is no-to little performance to gain.) I'll just break down & write a guide on Seafoam. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Toysrme Seafoam looks like a very attractive option right now. Can't wait for your guide. 'Break down' might be a poor choice of words for writing the guide, though. Seafoam for Dummies, anyone? Do not take what I say as an argument. I have absolutely no personal opinion or preference (well, cheaper is better for the closet, that's true.) on fuel octane. And I am very grateful for your perspective on this. Have fuels changed such that today's lower octanes are what yesterday's higher octanes used to be? I mean is it about more than the octane number? Going by the owner's manual seemed like good advice and that is what I went with after reading through the thread on octane. Please understand that for someone like me (just a regular person with no particular knowledge or expertise) consensus would be a great thing to achieve on some of these issues. My car is stock, no modifications and no idea what the modifications would be, either. I would like to keep it running as long as possible just because I like it so much. (If only that cd changer were still in one piece!) I realize that searching first is highly recommended.........and I have done that, plus read through numerous topics just for the heck of it. So, confusion has come to me the hard way........ Seafoam seems to be one of those issues that everyone agrees on. I honestly look forward to recommendation on its use, particulalry for this application. 93Lexus I will take a digital pic of the car and post it for you. Right now it is raining and storming so it will have to wait a bit. Color is garnet (pearl?) with that grey bottom area, black leather interior. I have had no problems with instrument panel needles or anything like that. The rear light icon lights up whenever something comes in contact with where the CD changer ought to be (Ithat died when the car was still new). If I go into the trunk and move the wiring harness a little, it goes off and stays off til the next time. My umbrella is the usual culprit for getting lodged in there. Only the driver's side of the interior has any wear at all and that is minimal since my BIL is not a heavy or huge man and he usually drove alone in the car. The seat seam was slightly torn and I had that sewn up. Good as new. The steering wheel leather is a bit worn, that's it. I went over the carpet with my little green machine (if you don't have one, get one with the heating option) and they are like new, wear spots on driver's side notwithstanding. I do car interiors for the family with this and it is a fabulous little item for interiors. By the way, I use PONDS cosmetic facial wipes to clean the interior fabric overhead. Does a great job and makes it smell good, too. Just wipe it off. I learned about this after a mishap with some mascara near the mirror (don't ask) rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Have fuels changed such that today's lower octanes are what yesterday's higher octanes used to be? I mean is it about more than the octane number? Actually no, but they were. (You're thinking great, what an answer!) In the early/mid 90s gas companies began putting tons of additives in their gas & the quality of it was great! Then the government thought it was a good idea, so they stepped in & mandated XXX amount of additives in gas. Unfortunately, they mandated a few times less additive than the big gas companies were actually putting in & all of them went back to lower levels of additives. So it's a yes-no type of thing. Gas is way better than it was in the 80s early 90s, but it's worse than it was say in 1998. Back when it was really good you could run most non-turbo / supercharged engines on Chevron, or Shell 87. If it makes you feel better, use higher octane. It's just that with our engine, 87 is all it needs so I really don't like seeing people pay 30 cents more for premium. Other than marginally better fuel additives & normally slightly worse mileage / power, higher octane gas isn't any better. (And if you're *really* wanting the additives, you can buy Techron in a concentrated bottle for a few dollars & just use that every few months! :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 It doesn't make me feel better to spend money I don't have to on something just to make me feel better. Unless its a massage or facial but I digress........ I am, simply, mindful that my car is an elderly lady with 250,000 miles. She got to that point by being treated well and I want to keep her running as long as possible and avoid major repairs for as long as I can. There are a lot of newer cars in far worse shape than this one. No accidents, regular maintenance, no performance problems, reliable comfortable, safe, essentiall one owner. , Realistically, there have to be repairs and serious maintenance coming at some point and I want to be smart about it. I paid zero for the car and have about $1500.00 invested in her. That is less than I thought I would have to for a new transmission that turned out not to be needed. She will get me nothing on trade in and almost nothing if I sell her. I don't drive often enough to worry about racking on the mileage quickly. I am not opposed to spending a few dollars on her but, again, I try to assess the tradeoffs. Clearly a new car is going to cost more than doing well by this one and, being who I am with the values I hold (new is not always better and living simply but well is best of all) I really like driving this car and not scrapping the good ole gal too soon. Plus, you can buy a lot of high octane gas for just one Lexus payment. So, without being foolish about it, I want to preserve and continue to drive this car. So, doing a Seafoam treatment seems like a reasonable thing to do. Sounds like good advice to me, as does going back to the 87 octane. We have three octanes to choose from here, so I will do the bold thing and choose....medium and see how that goes. 87 is medium, right? So does cleaning the IAC (did I get that right?) if I could figure out where that is and how to do it (I read the FAQ, but so don't get it :cries: ) Should I do this at the time of the next oil change all together or can I add to the gas now and add to the new oil (and intake) at the time of oil change? Does it matter? Is one option better than another? Sometimes the messages are written way above my comprehension level. I so appreciate it when you take the time to add pictures and clear explanations. Thanks so much for that. Really! Unbelievably useful. That Seafoam thread is golden. rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Normally, it's either 87-89-91, but sometimes you see combinations of 87-89-91-94. 89 is mid grade ya. The IAC. =) You're quick LoL! Just wait & have hubby do it. Tho I'm sure you could do it, you might get a little dirt on your fingers / nails. (Then again that *would* be an excuse to get your nails done! Just clean them up first 'cause you'd hear a lot of giggling in a language you probably don't know!) See, I understand these things! Your IAC is on the back side of the top of the engine. Meet your IAC valve You can take it all the way off if you want. It's 2 * 12mm bolts. It has: Red = Air hose from the intake. Pink = Vacuum line for the power steering adjustment Blue = water by-pass hose Light Blue = Electrical connector for the IAC Green = water by-pass hose Orange = vacuum hose for throttle body Some people get confused on where hoses go, but if you just take off the end of a hose you're working on, they naturally stay in the general area they're suppose to go. ;) The idle valves clog/gum up so it's good preventative maintenance to clean them out every so often. Once every year, or two I guess. Unless you're having idle problems it can wait. Then again it would make a good afternoon project + excuse to get your nails done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Normally, it's either 87-89-91, but sometimes you see combinations of 87-89-91-94.89 is mid grade ya. ← Well, okay, regular unleaded it is, then. Advice on timing the seafoam treatments?: "So, doing a Seafoam treatment seems like a reasonable thing to do. Should I do this at the time of the next oil change all together or can I add to the gas now and add to the new oil (and intake) at the time of oil change? Does it matter? Is one option better than another? Both?" thx rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Normally, it's either 87-89-91, but sometimes you see combinations of 87-89-91-94.89 is mid grade ya. The IAC. =) You're quick LoL! Just wait & have hubby do it. Tho I'm sure you could do it, you might get a little dirt on your fingers / nails. (Then again that *would* be an excuse to get your nails done! Just clean them up first 'cause you'd hear a lot of giggling in a language you probably don't know!) See, I understand these things! Your IAC is on the back side of the top of the engine. Meet your IAC valve You can take it all the way off if you want. It's 2 * 12mm bolts. It has: Red = Air hose from the intake. Pink = Vacuum line for the power steering adjustment Blue = water by-pass hose Light Blue = Electrical connector for the IAC Green = water by-pass hose Orange = vacuum hose for throttle body Some people get confused on where hoses go, but if you just take off the end of a hose you're working on, they naturally stay in the general area they're suppose to go. ;) The idle valves clog/gum up so it's good preventative maintenance to clean them out every so often. Once every year, or two I guess. Unless you're having idle problems it can wait. Then again it would make a good afternoon project + excuse to get your nails done. ← So cool! So, just to clarify. The IAC is a separate cleaning project from sucking up seafoam into the intake outlined above (just coincidently in the same general area?)or is this the same basic procedure? In other words, taking off all these lines and cleaning them is NOT the same as simply taking one off and letting the seafoam into it? My husband may be willing to remove the whole magilla, but I sure wouldn't trust myself to know where to put it back. IAC cleaner = seafoam? Gosh, hope I'm making sense. You sure understand the dynamics of the nail salon better than I am understanding the dynamics of the IAC/etc. The pictures help a lot! rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yep, the IAC is it's own cleaning activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyofOne Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yep, the IAC is it's own cleaning activity. ← When you have your heads done, a Port and Polish is a must providing you have the cash. It will cost around $400 to have done. when the heads are off take them to a machinist, i know those guys are evrerywhere in portland, i spent 3 or 4 summers there when i lived in Anchorage Alaska. a 3 or a 5 angle valve job is also a must, since the heads are off anyways. as you can see i have done this to my Escort ZX2, you should gain around 40 HP just from the Port and Polish. your blue smoke (also known as "Blow-By") is caused when oil drips down into the cylinders through the valves after the engine is shut off while its cooling down. its a normal occurance on older engines. i wouldnt worry about it too much right now if its only on startup. it wont effect emissions. BUT, if i may suggest an oil change. Although Mobil one is a FINE FINE motor oil, it doesnt do much for higher mileage engines unless they have been "Run in" with mobil one. Next timne around, i suggest a 10w30 weight Valvoline MaxLife Synthetic. It contains an agent that helps those seals expand back to normal size and it fills them in. prolongs their life for a little bit anyways. I have seen instances where it has undone the damage caused by wear and due time. as a normality this is how the "smoke color scale" GENERALLY works (I say generally because there is always an exception to the rule): Dark Blue=Oil burning Light blue or Gray= Oil mixed with coolant, the shade will vary depending on the mixture (blown headgasket, cracked head or cracked block) ratio of coolant to oil. if there is more coolant than oil, it will be more white, if more oil, closer to blue. Black= Usually means ALOT of oil, or too much fuel. White=Coolant Burning* There are cases where a car running too rich or lean will emit white smoke too, but it will be hoards of it...liek enough to call the fire department. believe me, you will know if its a fuel problem. in any case, it sounds like you have done your research. Welcome to the club. Enjoy your stay. Pm me anytime, for anything, if Brandon (Toysrme) cant help you, i probably can. and vice versa. if we cant help you there are TONS of people on this board who probably can too, just ask any one of us, and if we dont know, we will find out. and in case your wondering, yes i am a mechanic. Im a wheeled Vehicle Mechanic in the US Army, and i have been a Shadtree mechanic since i was old enough to turn a wrench (thanks dad!) :D In any case, welcome to LOC and enjoy your stay! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 shhhh, she's a girl. She doesn't need to be spending pamper money on head machining yet LoL! (More like 25-30bhp from the head porting. These heads are really pretty good to only be picking up like 4-6bhp per cylinder from porting + valve goodies. So far Sean's the only one with high quality porting & he picked up 30-35 from it. 40's stretching it a bit less you bump up compression, or install larger valves, but I'm really just splitting hairs heh.) Just don't be afraid to get those nails dirty rosecityrain! Like I said, great excuse for a nail-job! LoL! Besides, chicks that work on cars instantly get a +6 bump on the hawtness scale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Congrats and welcome to the LOC, we're glad to have you here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Thanks to all for your warm welcomes. I am glad to be here! Well, here's an update. I spoke to Shawn, my mechanic in Portland (GerBrock Performance), and discussed all the suggestions and good advice with him. Shawn is a GREAT mechanic and he is a performance type guy who races Nissans. Anyway, he thought cleaning the IAC is a great idea ($50.00 and before you say it, the cost of a good nail job runs about that or more) and he suggests changing the oil weight as well to 20W50 Valvoline full synthetic, so he is doing both as I write this. There's a rebate offer on from Valvoline that reduces it a little) My husband will be happy he didn't have to do it. He has been working a lot of hours lately anyway. As to the engine. It will cost about $4000.00 to rebuild the engine. Since I am into this car for basically nothing so far, this is not really so bad when you consider what I could get for $4000 by getting something else of dubious history. Oh well.....not something immediately necessary according to Shawn, but an eventuality it seems to me. If all the other mechanic systems are in good shape, this will be worth doing. So far, no other problems have shown themslves. It has never been in so much as a fender bender, either. Shawn says that he has never seen a Lexus in this good of shape for its age. He is amazed every time I take it in. It had a tune-up about 10,000 miles ago so he'll check all that stuff out. It has used about 1/2 quart of oil in the last 2500 miles and he doesn't think that is a cause for panic or immediate concern (as you guys seemed to believe as well) We have had a serious change in the weather here and one of the other guys in the shop says that can sometimes cause changes in the way a car runs. I'm not sold on that, really, but what do I know? (answer: not much :whistles: ) So, I am leaning toward an engine rebuild in the spring or so, unless the blow by gets seriously better (I can dream, can't I?) You are a great bunch! rosie (Car is home...more power, no doubt about it. IAC was DIRTY. Thanks again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Good call on not believing the cold weather stuff. $4000 to rebuild it, no way LoL! Forget that. If it's valve stem seals, the need to fix them is very, very low. If it's piston rings, that's actually important, but you can still drive it into the ground before they get changed b/c the whole thing has to be torn apart at that point. You can by low mileage JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) 3vz-fe's for like $600-900usd. Freight shipping normally only runs $100-150 (175 MAX & they better box it pretty!) for something the size/weight of an engine to go cross-country if the shipper is being fairly honest. You oughta be able to get a low mileage JDM engine swapped in for $2000. Including any tune-up parts on the engine depending what it needs. No better time to replace every dumb belt & plugs & clean the innards than while it's out of the car! If it comes down to a serious engine rebuild.I would drive the sob into the ground & simply buy a new (used) JDM engine when it get's on it's last leg. (If you have emotions testing, they'll have to swap the EGR system from your old engine to the JDM one, but that's very minor work. If you don't have emessions testing forget I just said that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosecityrain Posted November 2, 2005 Author Share Posted November 2, 2005 Good call on not believing the cold weather stuff. $4000 to rebuild it, no way LoL! Forget that. If it's valve stem seals, the need to fix them is very, very low. If it's piston rings, that's actually important, but you can still drive it into the ground before they get changed b/c the whole thing has to be torn apart at that point. You can by low mileage JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) 3vz-fe's for like $600-900usd. Freight shipping normally only runs $100-150 (175 MAX & they better box it pretty!) for something the size/weight of an engine to go cross-country if the shipper is being fairly honest. You oughta be able to get a low mileage JDM engine swapped in for $2000. Including any tune-up parts on the engine depending what it needs. No better time to replace every dumb belt & plugs & clean the innards than while it's out of the car! If it comes down to a serious engine rebuild.I would drive the sob into the ground & simply buy a new (used) JDM engine when it get's on it's last leg. (If you have emotions testing, they'll have to swap the EGR system from your old engine to the JDM one, but that's very minor work. If you don't have emessions testing forget I just said that.) ← For someone like me (a regular josephine) who has a husband who can do the oil changes and a transmission and fluid flush, maybe, change brake shoes, but who is not willing to do anything more complex, it is hard to sort grain from chaff when facing an expensive repair bill. You are highly capable and motivated to source out the engine you are recommending. And I do not, for one moment, suggest that you are wrong or that your advice is in any way inaccurate. It is simply that you have advantages relating to Lexuses that I do not have access to (I'm trying!) Talent, experience, ability and knowedge, sources, smarts, to name a few. I do not know, and how can it BE known without a substantial labour cost on my end, what exactly the need is? Piston rings, valve seals? How do you know without taking it apart? That sounds like a critical distinction! ....Anxiety attack...It appears that taking the valve cover off alone is expensive and at that point I am commtitted to at least gaskets and work that is foolish NOT to do while it is off, "needed" or not. In for a penny, in for a pound ( or thousands) in my situation. If I buy the part, I get no warranty on the labour portion of it and could find myself paying for it twice. For someone like me, that is quite a risk. It seems to be an all or nothing kind of thing. Why have the thing opened up and not do the whole magilla at once? Are part way solutions more cost effective? How do I find out? I am completely willing to pay a mechanic who is good, honest, and straightforward less money to get this baby of mine working in fine fiddle. But, I am also willing to pay more for the insurance of working with someone I trust and who is trustworthy, has the experience and the knoweldge and who will back up the work (as they say, that one is priceless) Bottom line is, what do I have at the end of spending $4000.00 vs doing only part of the job and, portentially ending up spending more in the long run because some of it has to be done twice or more? I'm totally out of my league here. So, what would be incredibly helpful to me (and I will get there by talking with that relative who works for the dealership 3 hours away) is to find a shop (or lexus mechanic wanting to do some work on the side, I guess) that is willing to do the work (rebuild the engine) for less than the $4000.00 (asumming that is what I am facing) has the expertise and the "stand behind the work and parts" policy of my usual guy. I have no absolute loyalty to my mechanic if the work can be done just as well and save me big bucks. None. The car passed emissions testing this year (barely) Next year....who knows? The whole subject of rebuilding the engine was mine, not the mechanics, anyway. No one is telling me I have to do it. He pretty much said that it could be driven for a long time just the way it is but watch the oil levels religiously and (as advised) put a heavier oil in it, which we did yesterday(Valvoline total synthetic 20W50) Total bill (oil change with filter, IAC cleaning): $73.00. For now, I will keep driving the car and take care to watch the oil consumption. The car is running incredibly well after having the IAC valve cleaned. That was advice worth following up on immediately, believe it! Power had been down some and it is downright PEPPY now. I hope having this exchange is not too much of a drag for you. It has been incredibly valuable for me. I am certain that others who read and do not post, as I did for the last couple of years, will agree with that. thanks again, rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I didn't mean swap the engine yourself!!! Right now I can only think of one woman I would trust could do an engine swap herself. Hi babe~! Like the guys were saying in the start of the post, it's probably your valve stem seals because you only get some smoke when the engine cranks. When valve stem seals go bad, you just get a few drips of oil here & there. Just enough so that when you stop the engine & turn it back on you'll see smoke. (The leak itself is so slow you don't get any smoke while the engine is running normally.) ******************** Skip this if you want. In a nut shell, here's what we say your problem is. If you need to know a really down to earth explanation of how the engine works. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm Is awsome. The flash animations say everything 4-7th grade science does, 'cept you won't sleep through it & it takes a few min to glance through at most! LoL! What happens is oil flows up to the top half of the engine to lubricate moving parts. (In our case the camshafts & related valve equipment.) Look how everything in my front head had the pretty golden tint to it. That's from oil. Now on the underside of that is where the good stuff takes place. It's the top part of the combustion chamber & houses the valves that let air in & exhaust out. (You can see the 4 valves per cylinder) Here's a cleaned valve. Take the valves out & you see the hole<s> they fit into. Obviously, those holes have to run from the top side to the bottom side. Here is where the problem lies. On the one hand, you've got steel valves going up & down in a metal hole. Metal rubbing metal is very bad! To fix that you let oil fall into the hole to lubricate everything. The bad news is that now that oil is flowing through holes you have to seal it so oil doesn't leak out. That's what valve stem seals are for! They are just little metal caps with a rubber ring to seal the oil from dripping out. Those 4 nasty looking holes from before. You slip a stem seal over it then put the valve in. So what's the big deal? What happens when oil drips by? It falls directly on the valve into the combustion area where it burns up with the gas & you get a smokey engine & some oil loss. (normally bearly measureable) ******************** With the mechanic quoting so much for a rebuild, I'm pretty sure he's saying let's take the whole thing apart. I honestly don't trust the quote either way he means it. 1) Because of the symptoms you gave us & previous common experience tells us that another possible cause - piston rings - are not likely your problem. (Which ya, I can see 4 grand for rebuilding an engine bottom to top. That's in line.) 2) If he's saying $4000 to replace the valve stem seals I don't think that's right. Even if he did things like general maintenance items & then did repair work far above what "the book" tells you to do - You'd be paying over $3000 labor charges of your $4000 spent just for him to do a few hours of work & keep your car! Neither of those reasons mean that he (or anyone else) is right or wrong. I's just why I don't trust it. Now if the mechanic did compression, or leak-down tests on the cylinders & it showed the rings were leaking. That's fine - we're off to the races tearing the engine into itty-bitty-pieces! My other point was that if it were me & I was staring over $3000 worth of engine work in the face. I simply wouldn't do it. Instead of rebuilding it, I would buy a lower mileage engine coming out of Japan - have it shipped to an honest mechanic (or at least a good one!) - and have them swap the engines. It would be much cheaper even after doing all possible maintenance on it, and checking it after it's been installed! Ebay search 3vzfe Ebay search 3vz-fe Obviously you don't want to buy one that looks broken! Anywho, before anything get's done in the future, I would get a compression test, or a leak-down test done. (Get them to write down the numbers too!) That way you know exactly what & where the problem is & you know exactly about what the cost is going to be before a mechanic can see your car. I like you, you're smart. You've done everything exactly like you should. 1) Narrow down the problem<s> 2) Find the cause<s> 3) With the information learned, use it to fix the problem<s> in the most fitting way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysrme Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I do not know, and how can it BE known without a substantial labour cost on my end, what exactly the need is? Piston rings, valve seals? How do you know without taking it apart? That sounds like a critical distinction! It's actually pretty easy. Simply process of elemination. Step one - what causes oily smoke out the tail-pipe? Oil burning inside the engine (Combustion chamber - see the link to howstuff works to see how an engine works :D) How does oil get into the combustion chamber? In our case there's really only 3 easy causes. 1) blown head gasket 2) leaks past rings 3) leaks past valve stem seals 1) If you blow a head gasket it's not really a question of if the head gasket is blown. It's an obvious problem that can go from no symptom one split second, to a hugely obvious problem a few seconds later! (2000-2500*F+ jest of exhaust, hitting a head gasket many times a second cuts extremely quickly. Causing a pinhole to become a big hole in seconds) Count #1 out. Head Gakset problems just do not fit the profile. 2) Yes, your rings could be just starting to let oil from the bottom of the engine slip by the piston into the combustion chamber. Altho this could be the problem, I don't think it's likely for several reasons. When a set of rings on a piston starts to leak. The problems associated with bad rings goes from little to "Hey I'm pretty sure I got a problem" over a relatively short period of time. Now I'm stepping out on a limb assuming some things. (Which I don't like assuming, but hey... Welcome to the real world LoL!) You didn't wake up one day & notice a puff of smoke for a few seconds. Then freaked out & went searching for answers. More likely it's been a problem for a while & you finally got tired of it. Assuming that... If a set of rings were going bad - they'd be bad by now & you'd be pumping blue smoke all the time out of the exhaust & maybe running poorly / roughly. Your original description is also "good enough" to troubleshoot. If it had been getting worse (important information) - you would have told us that in the first place. That only leaves #3. Valve stem seals. They: *Cause little - to no measureable oil loss. *Oil leaks / pools into the combustion chamber, or on the intake valves - both leading to the combustion chamber *Cause smoke when the engine begins to run from pooling oil - but isn't enough oil leaking & burning to cause smoke all the time (once the engine warms up & runs faster any oil leaking & burning isn't enough to notice). Not only do valve stem seals fit the problem, but they're the only cause left on a fairly short list. ;) Like I said on the other post, having a compression check, or cylinder leak-down test done on the engine will tell you how it's doing & problem areas. For example: here's a compression test done on a different Toyota v6. Cylinder # - compression read in psi (left side) 2 - 120 4 - 135 6 - 140 (Right side) 1 - 150 3 - 30 5 - 145 Now the specification from Toyota is a minium of 142psi, normal is 178psi & there should not be more than 14psi difference between any of them. Obviously #3 isn't holding anything while #1 & #5 right beside #3 are. #3's head gasket is blown & #1 & #5 head gaskets are probably leaking some. (Possibly head-gasket, or warped head/block, or old rings that are some-what leaking) Also the other half of the engine is struggling. Another possibly blown head gasket, or severe ring wear, possibly valve seating, or timing problems (but not as likely). We know it needs new head gaskets & we're fairly sure there could be some minor ring blow-by (Hey it's an old engine... Stuff wears over time.). We also know one more thing! It's an old engine & the valves may not be seating to the head fully - creating a smaller leak. So while the engine is apart we do a basic valve job to make sure they are not leaking also! So without ever seeing this engine, it's pretty obvious what the main problem is blown head gaskets, possibly warped, or cracked heads/block, possible ring problems, possible age related valve problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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