Recharging Old Ac System?

[SnesleyWipes]

Wanted to obtain some advice on recharging my ac system on my 92. I have the old freon (forgot the name of it) but do know its hella expensive. I have also heard the newer stuff is way cheaper. Can I recharge my system with the new stuff without problems? If so, any tutorials?

Thx,

Snes

[Toysrme]

No, the seals, and oil are not compatible.

The compressor would kick on and last between 20 seconds, and 20min before all the seals would blow out, or the unit itself was damaged.

It's hard to find Freon in many states, but not impossible. Here (Alabama) many places still sell the canisters to recharge it, the trick is that you can only buy small canisters if you're not liscenced!

The price premium is not astronomically higher. You're talking like $15-20 to recharge a system with r134a, it might cost you 30-40 to do it in freon at most. If worse comes to worse and you can't find any locally, check ebay. Just remember that *real* freon is R-12. There are some "compatible" newer refridgerants out there that supposidly work, but I've never used any myself.

Trust me, freon is tons colder anyways. Stick with the freon! I love mine! LoL! ;)

You can also get Freon to r134a recharge kits. I don't really recommend that. I know a few mechanically inclined people that have done it and blown seals. (Go figure) I would let a real mechanic do that, just so if something hapens a week later, you can take it back to them.

[chadmg7]

Quick sidenote,

How much does it cost to have A/C recharged on a 97? I have never had it charged. What type of coolant is used? What is required to recharge it... can I do it or is special equipment needed?

Thanks.

[SnesleyWipes]

30-40? Really? I thought it was at least 300-400 USD to do this. I would actually prefer an evacuation and fill of the whole sytem to ensure the appropriate amount of freon. I would hate to have them under or overfill my system. Would this assumption be valid? In anycase, 30-40 seems a little low.

No, the seals, and oil are not compatible.

The compressor would kick on and last between 20 seconds, and 20min before all the seals would blow out, or the unit itself was damaged.

It's hard to find Freon in many states, but not impossible. Here (Alabama) many places still sell the canisters to recharge it, the trick is that you can only buy small canisters if you're not liscenced!

The price premium is not astronomically higher. You're talking like $15-20 to recharge a system with r134a, it might cost you 30-40 to do it in freon at most. If worse comes to worse and you can't find any locally, check ebay. Just remember that *real* freon is R-12. There are some "compatible" newer refridgerants out there that supposidly work, but I've never used any myself.

Trust me, freon is tons colder anyways. Stick with the freon! I love mine! LoL! ;)

You can also get Freon to r134a recharge kits. I don't really recommend that. I know a few mechanically inclined people that have done it and blown seals. (Go figure) I would let a real mechanic do that, just so if something hapens a week later, you can take it back to them.

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[lbinh]

I just had my 93 recharged for $30 (2 small cans). The last time I recharged it took only one small can (2 years ago) and now (last month) it took 2 small cans from a different shop. My question is, does over-recharging the system blow the seals or cause any other damage to AC components?

The mechanic was preaching that my slightly noisy AC compressor will go out in a year and that repairing would cost $1000 and that repair would last just a couple of years. Is he trying to rip me off and keep me coming back for repairs? Did he damage my system by overcharging to get me to come back for major repairs?

Thanks

[Lex3486]

I can't believe you guys can find shops that will do R-12 anymore. I thought it was illegal now. I know that with my 92, they wanted to convert the system to R-134a no matter where we went to try and get it recharged. THAT'S where the money becomes an issue...

[Anovice]

I am Anovice and certainly a novice. I also have a 92 and spent about $800 4 years ago getting my A/C fixed. It has worked fine since. Last month I did not feel it was cooling as good as the recent past. I went to my local machanic (he did not fix the A/C 4 years ago) and got the system charged (I just learned charged means adding Freon). He said he added almost a pound and it cost me $85. I know it was R-12 (or he said it was and my seals are not leaking) and the A/C is now cold, cold, cold. At least in my area there is no problem finding R-12. P.S. Dupont did a great scam job on the government, but they are more than happy to sell R-12. It's called mega profits.

I can't believe you guys can find shops that will do R-12 anymore.  I thought it was illegal now.  I know that with my 92, they wanted to convert the system to R-134a no matter where we went to try and get it recharged.  THAT'S where the money becomes an issue...

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[monarch]

Wanted to obtain some advice on recharging my ac system on my 92.  I have the old freon (forgot the name of it) but do know its hella expensive.  I have also heard the newer stuff is way cheaper.  Can I recharge my system with the new stuff without problems?  If so, any tutorials?

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Recharging your '92 with the old Freon R12 is dirt cheap and takes only 5 minutes http://www.saber.net/~monarch/acrecharge.jpg if you fully understand the procedure (pix shows an LS400, but the ES300 is very similar). Basically it's like adding air to a tire using one of those aerosol type tire inflators some people keep in the trunk for flat tire emergencies.

Ebay always has tons of cheap ($15-20 a can) genuine R12 available and always will. It's especially cheap during the winter ($10 a can). You system capacity is about 2 - 2 1/2 cans, but to get it to blow cold air again you might only need 1 can.

So you have to a decision to make. Either succumb to the overwhelming $dollar$ driven peer pressure / AC industry pressure to convert your system to a Freon R12 substitute or to R134a or learn how simple and cheap it is to keep on using genuine Freon R12 and reap the benefits of superb cooling performance and superior system reliability / durability.

If you decide the latter, remember you're on your own since no one connected with the auto repair or AC repair industry

will want to teach you how simple and cheap it is to keep on using genuine Freon R12 (since they all make their living pushing conversions and making even more money on all the mechanical problems that crop up after a conversion is made).

[SnesleyWipes]

Thanks for the info monarch, but all the ebay sellers want proof of some EPA certificate. Whats this all about?

Wanted to obtain some advice on recharging my ac system on my 92.  I have the old freon (forgot the name of it) but do know its hella expensive.  I have also heard the newer stuff is way cheaper.  Can I recharge my system with the new stuff without problems?  If so, any tutorials?

←

Recharging your '92 with the old Freon R12 is dirt cheap and takes only 5 minutes http://www.saber.net/~monarch/acrecharge.jpg if you fully understand the procedure (pix shows an LS400, but the ES300 is very similar). Basically it's like adding air to a tire using one of those aerosol type tire inflators some people keep in the trunk for flat tire emergencies.

Ebay always has tons of cheap ($15-20 a can) genuine R12 available and always will. It's especially cheap during the winter ($10 a can). You system capacity is about 2 - 2 1/2 cans, but to get it to blow cold air again you might only need 1 can.

So you have to a decision to make. Either succumb to the overwhelming $dollar$ driven peer pressure / AC industry pressure to convert your system to a Freon R12 substitute or to R134a or learn how simple and cheap it is to keep on using genuine Freon R12 and reap the benefits of superb cooling performance and superior system reliability / durability.

If you decide the latter, remember you're on your own since no one connected with the auto repair or AC repair industry

will want to teach you how simple and cheap it is to keep on using genuine Freon R12 (since they all make their living pushing conversions and making even more money on all the mechanical problems that crop up after a conversion is made).

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[monarch]

Thanks for the info monarch, but all the ebay sellers want proof of some EPA certificate.  Whats this all about?

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There are two ways of dealing with that issue. 1. Choose an ebay seller that will accept a signed statement that you are purchasing the R12 for resale to certified technician

Example of such a seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...&category=46094 Seller wrote:

"Note that you must provide certification of EPA training as a technician or a signed statement that this refrigerant is being purchased for resale to such a party before this transaction can be completed." 

Here's another ad that doesn't sound like the seller has strict certification requirements:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...&category=46094

In the highly unlikely event you cannot find an ebay seller that will accept a signed statement, then for just $15 you can take the little 25 question test online (or via mail) to become certified:

http://www.macsw.org/macs.asp?mfurl=certify.html

I always found ebay sellers who would accept a signed statement. In fact, after the sale nearly all of them didn't even bring up the certification issue and simply shipped the R12 after they got their money!

However, since the cost of the certification test was only $15 and the test was so short (25 questions) I decided to take the test anyway out of curiousity. I took it via mail rather than online because that way you can look up the answers to each question as you are taking the test!

Yes, amazingly the test is an open book exam so it's impossible to fail!. I learned alot for that $15 and feel it was well worth it (even though I didn't really need the certification to buy the R12 on ebay)

[SnesleyWipes]

Wow! Good info, thx Monarch.

Thanks for the info monarch, but all the ebay sellers want proof of some EPA certificate.  Whats this all about?

←

There are two ways of dealing with that issue. 1. Choose an ebay seller that will accept a signed statement that you are purchasing the R12 for resale to certified technician

Example of such a seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...&category=46094 Seller wrote:

"Note that you must provide certification of EPA training as a technician or a signed statement that this refrigerant is being purchased for resale to such a party before this transaction can be completed." 

Here's another ad that doesn't sound like the seller has strict certification requirements:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...&category=46094

In the highly unlikely event you cannot find an ebay seller that will accept a signed statement, then for just $15 you can take the little 25 question test online (or via mail) to become certified:

http://www.macsw.org/macs.asp?mfurl=certify.html

I always found ebay sellers who would accept a signed statement. In fact, after the sale nearly all of them didn't even bring up the certification issue and simply shipped the R12 after they got their money!

However, since the cost of the certification test was only $15 and the test was so short (25 questions) I decided to take the test anyway out of curiousity. I took it via mail rather than online because that way you can look up the answers to each question as you are taking the test!

Yes, amazingly the test is an open book exam so it's impossible to fail!. I learned alot for that $15 and feel it was well worth it (even though I didn't really need the certification to buy the R12 on ebay)

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[johnw991]

Thanks for the picture. I did get certified yesterday online. I'll get a can of R12 at Pep Boys for $35 and do it-I'm going on a trip and can't wait for Ebay but will order some for the future. My friend has an R12 hose. How do I know how much to put in? I looked at the sight glass and it is bubbly/foamy. The compressor comes on most of the time and the air is sightly cool.

[sunman]

to fill the system, attach the can to the LOW side of the system with the a/c on. Slowly add freon and watch the sight glass. When the bubbles dissappear, there is enough freon now. There are r-12 to r134 conversions available. This would require all the old freon removed first. The system should be flushed with a special chemical treatment first. The air drier has to be changed out also. Then vacuum the system to -30mmHg and add the new 134 freon. There are many websites and write ups for this procedure on the web. I have done a few myself. The cold point for a r12 system is about 36 degrees versus about 42-44 degrees for a 134 system so yes, the r12 system is a colder system. Also, remember when changing the drier out, add .8oz of ND-8 oil to the compressor.

[johnw991]

Thanks!

[Drnkaa]

to fill the system,  attach the can to the LOW side of the system with the a/c on.  Slowly add freon and watch the sight glass.  When the bubbles dissappear, there is enough freon now.  There are r-12 to r134 conversions available.  This would require all the old freon removed first.  The system should be flushed with a special chemical treatment first.  The air drier has to be changed out also.  Then vacuum the system to -30mmHg and add the new 134 freon.  There are many websites and write ups for this procedure on the web.  I have done a few myself.    The cold point for a r12 system is about 36 degrees versus about 42-44 degrees for a 134 system so yes, the r12 system is a colder system.  Also, remember when changing the drier out, add .8oz of ND-8 oil to the compressor.

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Do you know of any websites in particular with specific instructions on how to convert r-12 to r134?

[SnesleyWipes]

Do you know of any websites in particular with specific instructions on how to convert r-12 to r134?

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I just forked out some cash for a conversion. My compressor was making some serious vibration noises and my guys said it could be the compressor or the clutch. I just decided to have them replaced and converted to the newer freon. I get my Toyota parts wholesale so I saved a little, but it is a very expensive conversion.

Snes

[tckcumming]

Do you know of any websites in particular with specific instructions on how to convert r-12 to r134?

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I just forked out some cash for a conversion. My compressor was making some serious vibration noises and my guys said it could be the compressor or the clutch. I just decided to have them replaced and converted to the newer freon. I get my Toyota parts wholesale so I saved a little, but it is a very expensive conversion.

Snes

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I did the same conversion on my '93 ES300 a couple of months ago. I couldn't find anyone in my area to work on the A/C system with R-12 in it. I have a neighbor who is an A/C technician at a shop nearby, even he advised me to convert to R-134a. The shop vacuumed out the old Freon, checked the compressor and clutch (they were AOK) , put in a new receiver/dryer, changed all the seals, recharged with R-134a and oil, did leak and pressure tests, etc. It cost me about $300CDN total.

The A/C works fine now. The only difference I have noticed is that it does take a little longer to cool the interior on a very hot day than before - but it's not a problem, once the car is cool it blows cold and stays that way. We've had some wickedly hot & humid weather here for the past month, the A/C has handled the conditions without a problem.

The shop that did the work called last week and asked me to come in for a "dye test" and leak and pressure checks, etc. They went over the whole system & found no leaks or problems. They told me to come back again in a couple of months for another check - all at no charge.

Bottom line - I'm happy I did the conversion, money well spent to "tune up" and update my A/C. While I'm sure that an R-12 Freon system would be colder - faster -etc. than my converted R-134a system, the difference to me is negligible, especially compared to the hassle of dealing with ebay, certification tests, EPA certificates, etc. etc. I don't want to be bothered with all that - I just want to be cool in my car on a hot day. No worries about getting it serviced in the future, any A/C shop anywhere can service it now, if the need should arise.

tck...