I Finally Got A Car!

[ECUPirate]

I did it! Thanks in no small part to you guys, I was able to go to a car auction (Manheim) knowing that the LS430 was a great car, and that it would be a great buy. So, I got a black on black 2002 with only 11,000 miles, top-of-the-line Audi A8L quattro, showroom clean for only $37,800.

Say what? :chairshot:

Yes, of the hundred or so LS430s they had there, only 6 or so were what I was looking for, and some of those had highish miles or had paint/body work done. Two of them were nice but the bidding happened so fast I missed it. It took some time before I could understand the auctioneer.

I had seen the Audi earlier and drooled over it for a bit, but didn't consider getting it until I saw what they were going for. The car is superb. The Lexus is quieter and perhaps a bit smoother, but the Audi (with it's near $80,000 price tag) is just nicer than the Ultra Lux. The all wheel drive worked wonderfully in the rain; even when I floored the 300+hp engine (335?), the car took off like a rocket with no wheelspin. The fit and finish is stunning - everything is suede, leather or wood, and there's tons of gadgetry. The car's under warranty for another year. Anyone have any word on the reliability of these cars?

I'll probably drive this car through ski season and then get an LS or something. I'll also be going back up in a few weeks and buy more cars to sell. I'd be happy to take some orders. I saw three LS430s, 2003, low miles, Modern lux package sell for $42,500, and a 2002 Ultra w/ 41K for $32,100, but it had paint work done. I'll charge only 10% flat commission, no haggle needed, and I can have it delivered anywhere. If anyone is interested, say so in this post and we can work out the details.

I appears that I am destined to become a used car enthusiast/salesman.

[silvermate]

Anyone have any word on the reliability of these cars

don't you think you should have researched that a little b/f you threw down 37K

i heard they are crap...and very overpriced IMO.......correct me if i am wrong

[ECUPirate]

I can't speak for the reliability. Again, the car only has 11K on it and is under warranty. I'll be selling it (unless I fall in love w/ it) in a few months. In the last week, I've driven 3 LS430s, a 745iL (briefly), a new GX430, a C240, a Tundra, a CRV, a Concorde, and the A8L, and the A8L easily has the nicest fit and finish, and drives like a champ. As equipped, the car costs about $8,000 more than the Ultra, and given the fact that it has a good deal more power as well as AWD, it's apparent where the money went. I wouldn't say it's overpriced. If I had tried flooring the LS last night in the rain I would have wound up sideways. :o

Though I didn't spend much time in the 745iL, I can attest to it's wonderful throttle response. The buttons and gadgetry are confounding, though.

I do love the LS430, as they are extraordinarily smooth and quiet, and they may be the best cars all around, but if I had to get my picture taken in front of one I think it would have to be the Audi.

Don't worry, gang, I'm still going to get an LS before too long.

[ArmyofOne]

I can't speak for the reliability.  Again, the car only has 11K on it and is under warranty.  I'll be selling it (unless I fall in love w/ it) in a few months.  In the last week, I've driven 3 LS430s, a 745iL (briefly), a new GX430, a C240, a Tundra, a CRV, a Concorde, and the A8L, and the A8L easily has the nicest fit and finish, and drives like a champ.  As equipped, the car costs about $8,000 more than the Ultra, and given the fact that it has a good deal more power as well as AWD, it's apparent where the money went.  I wouldn't say it's overpriced.  If I had tried flooring the LS last night in the rain I would have wound up sideways.    :o

Though I didn't spend much time in the 745iL, I can attest to it's wonderful throttle response.  The buttons and gadgetry are confounding, though.

I do love the LS430, as they are extraordinarily smooth and quiet, and they may be the best cars all around, but if I had to get my picture taken in front of one I think it would have to be the Audi. 

Don't worry, gang, I'm still going to get an LS before too long.

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a Concorde

what did you think? i have one (a 2002 Limited) with a few goodies under the hood. drives pretty good. B)

[silvermate]

If I had tried flooring the LS last night in the rain I would have wound up sideways.

i know thats right

whatever floats your boat buddy. they are nice cars. congrats, i'm glad you like it.

but if I had to get my picture taken in front of one I think it would have to be the Audi.

WOW.......thats a pretty bold statement.....but again everyone has there own preference.........mine would def be a pearl white 430 with the 18inch OE chrome wheels..........LOOK OUT!!!!

[ECUPirate]

Concorde drives reasonably well for a highway car when it's fairly new. Mine is a 95 w/ a 3.3l V6 and 77K. It looks new, but needs help. I hope they don't use the same rack bushing system/tie rods in yours as they did in the old style intrepid/concordes. The last 10K have brought me plenty of troubles with the Concorde.

The long version of the A8 looks terribly mean in black on black w/ chrome accents. It's quite photogenic, I think.

One other note... when you stomp the gas in the LS, the engine revs past 6000 and takes off quickly, which is loads of fun. The Audi doesn't do that. It'll rev, but 3-5K rpm is a more typical rpm range for hard acceleration. At first, it feels that the LS is more of a rocket, and the numbers just may prove that. But, once you get used to the fact that the Audi's engine isn't going to rev up just like the LS, it's acceleration begins to feel quite impressive at 3500 rpm. It just doesn't make as much noise. The throttle response and low end acceleration is better, IMHO, and that's nice for tooling around the city streets.

I'm looking forward to getting a 745iL and an XJR to drive for a while. Talk about power....

Aren't cars fun?

[SW03ES]

Yeah when I was helping my dad shop for a replacement for his LS400 we drove the A8. Its a beautiful machine, especially the new one (I think the 02 is the old model right?) but the reliability and the alluminum spaceframe just turned us off.

Having had previous experience with Volkswagen niether him nor I will ever buy a Volkswagen product. The worst customer service in the industry and average reliability at best. One issue you may notice with your A8 is that you wont be able to find anyone to service it, except the dealer. Thats because VW/Audi has some of the most expensive diagnostic equipment in the industry and very few independent shops can afford it (Machines upwards of $40,000 in cost just to diagnose). Plus their dealers have a weird policy where you can't have your car serviced at just any dealer, they have to transfer your account like a doctors office. Very strange.

Plus because of the alluminum frame bodywork and even windshield replacement can only be done at about 11 service centers around the country, and if there isn't one in your area your car will have to be shipped.

Plus their resale is horrendus as you saw because of the alluminum frame and the preconcived image of Audi reliability.

Nice car to drive once and a while but I wouldnt want to own one.

I saw three LS430s, 2003, low miles, Modern lux package sell for $42,500, and a 2002 Ultra w/ 41K for $32,100, but it had paint work done. I'll charge only 10% flat commission, no haggle needed, and I can have it delivered anywhere. If anyone is interested, say so in this post and we can work out the details.

I appears that I am destined to become a used car enthusiast/salesman.

Couple things...

First there was no modern luxury package in 2003, the modern luxury package came out in 2004. If the car had nav and Mark Levinson it was a "Nav/Lev" package.

Secondly make sure that you don't need a license to do that. What you're talking about is actually a career, its called being a car broker. In a lot of states individual brokers have to be licensed. I know car salesmen have to be licensed in all 50 states. 10% commission is also quite high. 10% commission on a $40,000 car is $4000, dealers wont markup cars much more than that.

Also, if you do decide to look into being a car broker I'll need to set you up as an authorized trader for a fee if you want to market those services to others on the site for a profit.

Oh, and with VSC on there is no way to get an LS sideways, I've tried even in the snow.

EDIT- I just remembered your from DC. You definately need a brokers license to resell vehicles for profit like that.

[Lexus_Luxembourg]

Just wanted to add my 2 Cents...

Around in my corner here they drive plenty of Audis, Mercs etc, you name it. The A8 is really nice but gets terrible reports on unreliability. Besides, for me the worst thing is the alloy frame. Hit a sidewalk once to hard and the frame is distorted. And you won't find anybody willing to align this thing. It's a bit like the Viper V-10. Once you go off the road it's just a piece for the wrecker.

But apart this it's anice car.

Alain

[SW03ES]

Well actually the frame is stonger than a steel frame, so its actually HARDER to distort. Any kind of body damage and its got to go to one of those special repair shops. You can't even have paintless dent repair done on them.

Jag did it right, the frame is alluminum but the exterior panels are steel.

[VMF]

i had a fully loaded 3.5 chrysler concorde 1993

its a really nice powerfull car but tranny died on me and i also had to repace the climate control panel few times, otherwqise car is awesome!!!

3.5 v6 deleived 220 hp and it can compete with my LS on the highway. i sold it to my friend and car has 160k miles now and still going strong:)

[silvermate]

Oh, and with VSC on there is no way to get an LS sideways, I've tried even in the snow.

man the technology lexus has nowadays is just amazing........

.i can't wait to get myself i newer model, but i can't justify it right now as i love my antique , there is nothing wrong with it and it looks/drives like a dream, but getting a newer model is def. something i look forward to in the future.......it just doesn't really get much better and classier than a new LS...they are top dogs, if you are in to that aspect of a car like i (and most of us) are.

my car can get sideways on drive pavement, just like a muscle car, its kinda fun, and odd at that (although i RARELY do that)...but scary in the rain, my new tires have def. helped that issue a lot, its great in the rain now., very safe and reasuring......

[Gumart1]

ECUPirate - I am interested in contacting you in regards to the next auction, but I am unable to PM or e-mail you. Please e-mail me at mphecht@hotmail.com Thanks.

[vevro]

I'll charge only 10% flat commission, no haggle needed, and I can have it delivered anywhere.  If anyone is interested, say so in this post and we can work out the details.

I appears that I am destined to become a used car enthusiast/salesman.

←

ECUPirate,

You sound as if you have discovered Aladdin's cave with your first trip to Manheim. 10% commission is outrageous. I have been purchasing cars from Manheim for the past 5 years for myself and my friends and the most I have every paid a dealer for this service was $200. Before you start your career as a used car dealer, I strongly suggest you do a search on Craigslist.com and view your competition.

Congratulations with your purchase, A8L is a great car.

[ECUPirate]

vevro - Expensive cars will have less % markup than cheaper cars. Let me share an example.

Take the case of the LS430 Ultra that sold at auction for $32,100 vs a nearly identical car a dealer tried to sell me. The dealer's bottom line price was $40,900. Back out $2000 for the CPO warranty and for actual parts/repairs, and you've got $38,900. That's 21% markup over wholesale.

Now, let's use my old Concorde as an example. I could trade it in for a whopping $100. The dealer would most likely sell it to a 3rd party for $200, and this person would take it to auction and sell if for $500-$700. The lucky buyer would then put the car on his lot and ask $4,900. Let's say it sells for $4,000 even. That's 470% over the $700 he paid at auction.

Now, I wouldn't buy the $700 car for someone and only charge 10% or $70. I wouldn't drag my butt all the way up to Manheim for $70, or even for $500. I could charge $2500 for the car and the buyer/customer would still come out way ahead - perhaps even better than if he'd found a private seller. By the same token, if someone wants a 2004 S600 for $90,000, I wouldn't necessarily have to charge 10% to have a good day. I'm a reasonable guy, after all. There will always be someone out there who's willing to work for ~free~. Not me.

The simple truth is that we are the exception. The people here on this forum are car fanatics. We all probably know people in the business who will give us better deals than they'd give other folks. Most 'normal' people are lazy when it comes to cars. If you can save them money and get them a car that they ordinarily wouldn't be able to afford then they're going to be grateful.

BTW - the A8L was rock solid at 105mph last night... twice. Tiptronic is great. Knock it down into 3rd manually and it goes from 60-100 like yesterday. :P

[SW03ES]

I didn't get any response about setting you up as an authorized trader. I'm serious about this, if you're going to discuss your business and get customers off of this forum (you already got one) then I have to set you up as an authorized trader for a fee. If you don't respond to this I'll have to insist that you stop all discussion about this venture on these forums.

Anyways, vevro is right you need to do some research into what car brokers charge. 10% is fair if you were buying cars, re-habing them and selling them but 10% is outrageous for just going up and buying a car for somebody. You first said flat 10% no haggling now you're saying it varies, well thats haggling. Already you're trying to justify your fee which means its too high. If your fee is right and the service you provide is warranted and valued then you won't have to argue with people over it.

[ECUPirate]

SW03ES - something's wrong. I made a post some time ago that seems to be missing. Not sure what happened to it, but it basically apologized for the impromptu advertisement and noted that I just got excited. I've got to do a little 'housekeeping' first but I may just talk with you later about this.

I don't want to argue about the commissions; I'm debating using a more flexible fee schedule. The point is that everything would be spelled out in black and white for the buyer, and they wouldn't have to worry about some sleazy car salesman getting the best of them. I never said I wouldn't provide any additional services for the 10%. I'd be doing all of the paperwork, inspections, the whole bit. I would probably drive the cars around for a bit to make sure they run OK, and could arrange any repairs. I already have clients who wish to trade in their vehicles. I would be taking on a good bit of risk and expense in doing all of this. I'd need additional insurance, office space, PDAs, cell phone bills, you name it. I do know people who will go to the auction as an agent and buy a car for a customer on the side. The agent gets the fee and the customer gets the keys and that's it. There's a lot more to what I plan to offer than what I've said here.

There's hardly any guarantee that the guy who responded will actually get a car. For the rest of you, please don't respond in this post. If you must, you can reach me at edwardscpa@gmail.com. Otherwise, wait until I get some formal advertising going.

I'll let you know when I get my LS430. B)

[SW03ES]

I don't know what happened to that post either, I never saw it.

Still, what you are talking about is being a car broker, and you need a license to be a car broker. If you are caught operating as a car broker and you are unlicensed you can and will go to jail. If you're operating as a broker illegally in my area, which you would be I will turn you in myself. All that does is give legitimate brokers a bad name.

Run a google search for "car broker". The exact service you're talking about is what a car broker does, I know, I used one to look for LS400s. They find the car, buy it, inspect it, handle all the paperwork etc. There is nothing new about your idea, car brokers have been doing that for decades.

Here's an article all about it http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/artic...83/article.html

Here's a quote from that article "Your broker should charge you on a flat-fee basis, agreed to before purchase. This way, the broker only makes money when he or she gets a great deal for you and can't drive up the fee by putting you in a more expensive car."

I've never seen an auto broker operate on a commission. As a broker you must give your client the benefit of agency, meaning that you have to shop with their best interests soley in mind, how can you do that when you're charging a sliding scale of fee?

This isn't a joke, becoming a broker of any kind is a serious legal and ethical commitment.

[Lexusfreak]

Post pics of your LS! :D B)

[ECUPirate]

I'm aware of what a car broker is; I used one to buy my car and I intend to go into business with him as a car broker myself, legally. I'm not a scam artist or a fly-by-night operator. I've taken more ethics classes than I care to count, I just don't see the need to discuss my planned business model in detail here. This is a car forum. Behind the excitement expressed earlier in this thread there lies a reasonably well-thought out plan, so take it easy.

Speaking of cars, I attached a pic of the new car. Not an LS, but it'll do for now... :)

[SW03ES]

You have to understand that from your emails it appeared that you had discovered this cash cow and "invented this great business" and refused to acknowledge that it already existed and required licensure and training. It sounded like coming in here saying "I've got this great idea, when people have problems with their teeth they'll come to me and I'll fix them!" it sounded rediculous.

There still is the question of the 10%, thats still totally unreasonable. Car brokers do exactly the service you're providing for $500, what makes you think you're worth 10%?

[silvermate]

Speaking of cars, I attached a pic of the new car. Not an LS, but it'll do for now

boy thats a really sharp looking car

[psolov]

I did it!  Thanks in no small part to you guys, I was able to go to a car auction (Manheim) knowing that the LS430 was a great car, and that it would be a great buy.  So, I got a black on black 2002 with only 11,000 miles, top-of-the-line Audi A8L quattro, showroom clean for only $37,800. 

Say what?  :chairshot:

Yes, of the hundred or so LS430s they had there, only 6 or so were what I was looking for, and some of those had highish miles or had paint/body work done.  Two of them were nice but the bidding happened so fast I missed it.  It took some time before I could understand the auctioneer. 

I had seen the Audi earlier and drooled over it for a bit, but didn't consider getting it until I saw what they were going for.  The car is superb.  The Lexus is quieter and perhaps a bit smoother, but the Audi (with it's near $80,000 price tag) is just nicer than the Ultra Lux.  The all wheel drive worked wonderfully in the rain; even when I floored the 300+hp engine (335?), the car took off like a rocket with no wheelspin.  The fit and finish is stunning - everything is suede, leather or wood, and there's tons of gadgetry.  The car's under warranty for another year.  Anyone have any word on the reliability of these cars?

I'll probably drive this car through ski season and then get an LS or something.  I'll also be going back up in a few weeks and buy more cars to sell.  I'd be happy to take some orders.  I saw three LS430s, 2003, low miles, Modern lux package sell for $42,500, and a 2002 Ultra w/ 41K for $32,100, but it had paint work done.  I'll charge only 10% flat commission, no haggle needed, and I can have it delivered anywhere.  If anyone is interested, say so in this post and we can work out the details.

I appears that I am destined to become a used car enthusiast/salesman.

←

I got mine at Manheim a few months ago..55k miles 2001 LS430 with sport suspension. Excellent shape (had all the paperwork including the lease documents from the previous owner) and ran me $32K with the auction fees. I buy all my cars there..for auctions it's more expensive then the others but they stand behind their reputation and the selection is unbeateable in the NorthEast.

The paperwork sold the car to me since you can rollback the milage on any car for about $250-$300.

[ECUPirate]

Thx silvermate. Now if I could just get a sharp picture of it! My camera-phone leaves much to be desired.

SW03ES. No more fussing, please. While the idea isn't completely new to most of us, I'm willing to bet it'll be new to a lot of folks. Also, I know accountants who charge $300/hr for the same service I'll provide for $150/hr, or for a similar service someone else will provide for $65/hr. I never claim to be the cheapest, just cheaper.

Here's a point of interest... It's currently snowing heavily here in DC. I decided to take the Audi out for a spin in the parking lot, just to test out the AWD. Well, the AWD functioned reasonably well in terms of moderating wheelspin, but the traction was crap! I had previously looked up my tires on tirerack.com, and they had a snow rating of 0 or N/A. (Dunlop - SP Sport 8000 18") I'd never driven sport tires in the snow, so I really couldn't relate to a '0' rating. Now I can. You can forget about stopping on these tires. I'll be looking into getting some better all around tires shortly.

[SW03ES]

Well best of luck to you, but I don't know a lot of people that will be willing to pay you 800% more than the typical car broker charges. Outpricing irritates the hell out of me, its irresponsible and bad for business.

Please don't market your services on the forum, I know for a fact that is a rediculous rate for a car broker to charge and I don't want our club associated with that.

[ECUPirate]

BTW, SW03ES, what do you do for a living?