Transmission Fluid

[ColinBarber]

Earlier RX300 burnt fluid and transmission failures and RX330 hesitation problems are directly related, ABSOLUTELY.

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I take if you have proof of this to make such a statement?

[lenore]

Earlier RX300 burnt fluid and transmission failures and RX330 hesitation problems are directly related, ABSOLUTELY.

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I take if you have proof of this to make such a statement?

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Very interesting discussion, Is it possible that relocating the transmission cooler in front of the radiator from the wheel well would help in the burnt transmission fluid problem? Also the Type IV fluid may not have adequate properties to handle the higher temps required by your scenario. I am going to have it anaylized by SWEPCO ( a distributor of this product) To see what the temp breakdown point is compared to the SWEPCO transmission fluid which I have successfully used in a Dodge Caravan (1991) to alleviate its inherant tranny failures, by the way I change the fluid at 80k and ran the vehicle to 165k with no failures and better shifting properties. Lexus has a problem, and changing the fluid at 10k is probably good, but not acceptable by automotive standards on modern transmissions. Type IV is not cheap, in my area it cost around $6 per quart. I wish more people would contact LEXUS of America and complain. The trend is to make things more maintenance free with 7k oil changes and coolent that goes 5 years and 100k. Leave it to Lexus to hide their shortcomings by going backwards with a 10k automatic transmission change. By the way I also assume that most owners of Lexus would not be able to change their own fluid, So the $24 fluid change would probably cost in the neighborhood of $145 every 10K? Boy that really makes the vehicle desireable.

[RX in NC]

Agreed - a 10,000-to-15,000 mile change interval for transmission fluid of any kind is ridiculous and inexcusable in today's world of better automotive designs and products. A 50,000-to-60,000 mile change interval should be the standard, and typically has been with most domestic manufacturers for the past fifteen to twenty years. Properly-engineered automatic transmissions are usually quite bulletproof, and I've owned a number of them over the past couple of decades. Our 2000 RX300 AWD does not fall into this category, unfortunately.

I'm willing to change my wife's vehicle's fluid every 30,000 miles, so that's what I'll do as long as we own it. If the transmission fails again, I'll require Lexus to replace it again at no charge to us.

If a transmission and its associated fluid can't last 30,000 miles between fluid changes, there are serious design and engineering problems inherent to the vehicle and it shouldn't be sold on the general market. For those of you with RX AWD's who plan to remain with Lexus, I hope that the company will eventually come to the same conclusion. I'm doing my part to require Lexus to pay for my wife's RX's transmission failures, and if more of you will do the same for your own failing RX transmissions, Lexus Corporate may begin doing a better job of listening to its customer base and resolving their chronic transmission problems....

[lenore]

agreed. thankyou for your input. Apparantly only you and I are the most voiceful ones on this issue... And yes Lexus will hopefully someday step up to the plate as Honda has with their transmission problem. by the way my grand daughter was born in NC. And being one of those from wacko California I appreciate your down home logic and I applaud the congeniality of the folks from NC. ps she is truely as beautiful as a southern girl should be. Must be the water.

[bluestu]

There's nothing wrong with the Lexus transmissions that I have noticed. The problem is with the owners. If you don't keep the fluid inside the transmission clean, you are going to have problems. That would apply to any automobile. Since the front transaxle or transmission holds around 16 qts. of fluid, I think the fluid should be replaced every 15k. The fluid starts to break down due to heat and friction inside the transmission. Dark and burnt smelling fluid just means that the owner has not replaced the fluid. A drain and fill is not a fluid replacement and is the source of all the problems. The only way to change the fluid in an RX transmission is to have it completely flushed. If you don't have this done, then expect to have problems down the road.

[RX in NC]

Your RX300 owner's manual recommends that you NEVER change the transmission fluid in your vehicle unless you operate it under what are identified as "severe" conditions such as pulling a trailer, driving primarily on dusty roads, etc. Yet a number of RX300 AWD owners experience transmission failures as early as 35,000 miles. Lexus is grossly misleading its customers by advising them to run the factory fluid fill for the life of the vehicle. Those who follow the owner's manual's recommendations will have to deal with this problem if they keep their vehicle long enough, and they certainly have a case against Lexus because they were simply following what their Lexus owner's manual told them to do. So yes, there is a real problem, and it does not reside with the owners.

[mikey00]

There's nothing wrong with the Lexus transmissions that I have noticed. The problem is with the owners. If you don't keep the fluid inside the transmission clean, you are going to have problems. That would apply to any automobile. Since the front transaxle or transmission holds around 16 qts. of fluid, I think the fluid should be replaced every 15k. The fluid starts to break down due to heat and friction inside the transmission. Dark and burnt smelling fluid just means that the owner has not replaced the fluid. A drain and fill is not a fluid replacement and is the source of all the problems. The only way to change the fluid in an RX transmission is to have it completely flushed. If you don't have this done, then expect to have problems down the road.

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There is something very wrong with the RX trans, whether you noticed it or not. A modern trans should not need the fluid flushed every 15k as you suggest. Read the owners manual, the Lexus engineers didn't think so. If you do a search on the trans problem you will find a lot of discussion on its shortcomings.

[wwest]

RX in NC....

At 65 years of age I have driven many vehicles well over 100,000 miles and NEVER changed the transmission fluid absent a DIY overhaul, and even those typically at over 100,000 miles.

MY 1968 Ford was driven over 275, 000 miles before the "end" came and insofar as I know the transmission was overhauled once, at ~150,000, and the fluid was changed only then.

[LexKid630]

if there isn't anything wrong with the rx300's transmissions, why do they break at such low mileage? changing the fluid at every 10-30k miles is rediculous.

[LexKid630]

ford explorer's have better tranny's than the rx300

[RX in NC]

wwest,

At 51 years of age I have driven a number of vehicles over 90,000 miles before changing the transmission fluid. All of these vehicles were domestic, and most of them were either Jeep Cherokees or Grand Cherokees. For whatever reason, domestic vehicles seem to have far more bulletproof automatic transmissions than Japanese vehicles do. My 1999 Dodge Ram 5.9-litre V-8 pick-up still has squeaky-clean fluid at about 38,500 miles, and I don't envision having to change it before 80,000 miles if even then. But it's a heavy-duty, well-built assembly with plenty of properly-designed cooling features, and that seems to make a world of difference.

Alas, I can't say the same for the 2000 RX300 AWD transmission. Its poor engineering and potentially inferior components force us owners to constantly play defense with it. In our case, I check the fluid weekly and I'll change the fluid using only Toyota Type T-IV every 30,000 miles for as long as we own it. I expect that at about 120,000 to 140,000 miles, we'll dump it and return to the Grand Cherokee line-up which has served us so well over the years. Due to the multiple problems we've experienced with her RX, my wife has been cured of any remnants of "Lexus fever". I couldn't be happier about that.

[wwest]

I have direct "oversight" of 4 LS400s, 3 92s, and a 95, all with over 100k miles. Each time the oil is changed the odor and look of the transmission fluid is checked. None of these yet have any indication of the need for fluid change-out. So, at least in the case of the LS, the problem is not systemic to Japanese vehicles.

On the other hand I have no question that something is very seriously wrong with the design of the RX series transmissions. Or maybe even all Toyota/Lexus FWD vehicles using the 3.3L engine and it's showing up first on the RX series due to the extra weight of the vehicle.

There is no question in my mind at this point in time that the shift pattern in these vehicles is at the root of the problems, burnt fluid, early failures, and apparent engine hesitation problems.

At certain speeds if you happen to be in 3rd gear and close the throttle valve fully, the RX transmission will shift into 4th. The Lexus shop manual leaves no doubt of this. Now your transmission has shifted into 4th, you see an opening to merge from the acceleration lane into a travel lane and you open the throttle "aggressively".

In the RXes of 03 and early the transmission will now be downshifting as the engine is building revs/torque, now exactly easy on the transmssion clutches' friction contact surfaces.

04 and later....DBW/e-throttle.

Nothing.....

Until the transmission ECU gets into the appropriately lower gear, with the clutches fully seated and then "tells" the engine that it's okay to build revs/torque.

[wwest]

Both of us, seemingly, have forgotten an important point.

You just reminded me.....

Most of our previous experience is primarily with RWD vehicles, or AWD/4WD vehicles with longitudinally mounted engine/transmissions. FWD vehicles' transmissions must, of necessaty, occupy a much smaller space/area than we have experienced in the past.

Less space, smaller clutch surfaces, different frictional surface materials, higher hydraulic pressures, etc. All add up to a much lower margin of error for the designers.

[lenore]

Both of us, seemingly, have forgotten an important point.

You just reminded me.....

Most of our previous experience is primarily with RWD vehicles, or AWD/4WD vehicles with longitudinally mounted engine/transmissions. FWD vehicles' transmissions must, of necessaty, occupy a much smaller space/area than we have experienced in the past.

Less space, smaller clutch surfaces, different frictional surface materials, higher hydraulic pressures, etc. All add up to a much lower margin of error for the designers.

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Well the margin of error has created a lot of very unhappy customers of a quite expensive automobile. I still say it is important to let Lexus of America, and Consumers Reports know of this weakness so they either admit it or downgrade the reliability of the transmission in the AWD RX300. I am a consumer and expected the Toyota reliability that was promised. What a terrible dissappointment.

I promised Lexus of America I would not let this go, and I will not. I love the RX300, but will not accept the responsibility for poor design. At least Accura MDX has come up to the plate and acknowleged their design flaw. I have more respect for Honda/Accura as a company that backs their product. Since I have come on this site I have learned that many owners are very complacent with the Tranny failures. I guess dropping $4500 to $8000 is not much to many but it sets me back when I want to do other things with my money, like vacations, family, and grandchildren. Lexus has no excuse, and will not take the blame, but I will give them the blame of not being a class act, as they so want to be. I have only owned 1 American vehicle in my life, but Lexus is the first to have turned me off in the way they treat their customers when they know they have a problem. Maybe their is too much American corporate in their ranks, and they have lost sight of their vision of a great auto which could be respected and compete with the Luxary class auto of the world. I applaud all of you that have responded to this terrible problem. I hope Lexus wakes up before they realize a black circle in the next edition of consumers report for reliability. The owners are the true test of a vehicle with their experiences whether it be good or bad. Good night and the best to all of you.

[jgr7]

I was changing my engine oil today and decided to do the trans pan oil change also. The oil was dark but no burnt smell, 21,700 miles 2000 RX300. T-IV at the Toyota dealer cost me $6.89 per Qt. !!! I put in 4qts, just a little over 4 came out. I did this since Carfax told me that my car was from an area that is hilly and hot and I wanted to see just how the fluid looked for my peace of mind.

Jeff

[TunedRX300]

Both of us, seemingly, have forgotten an important point.

You just reminded me.....

Most of our previous experience is primarily with RWD vehicles, or AWD/4WD vehicles with longitudinally mounted engine/transmissions. FWD vehicles' transmissions must, of necessaty, occupy a much smaller space/area than we have experienced in the past.

Less space, smaller clutch surfaces, different frictional surface materials, higher hydraulic pressures, etc. All add up to a much lower margin of error for the designers.

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Well the margin of error has created a lot of very unhappy customers of a quite expensive automobile. I still say it is important to let Lexus of America, and Consumers Reports know of this weakness so they either admit it or downgrade the reliability of the transmission in the AWD RX300. I am a consumer and expected the Toyota reliability that was promised. What a terrible dissappointment.

I promised Lexus of America I would not let this go, and I will not. I love the RX300, but will not accept the responsibility for poor design. At least Accura MDX has come up to the plate and acknowleged their design flaw. I have more respect for Honda/Accura as a company that backs their product. Since I have come on this site I have learned that many owners are very complacent with the Tranny failures. I guess dropping $4500 to $8000 is not much to many but it sets me back when I want to do other things with my money, like vacations, family, and grandchildren. Lexus has no excuse, and will not take the blame, but I will give them the blame of not being a class act, as they so want to be. I have only owned 1 American vehicle in my life, but Lexus is the first to have turned me off in the way they treat their customers when they know they have a problem. Maybe their is too much American corporate in their ranks, and they have lost sight of their vision of a great auto which could be respected and compete with the Luxary class auto of the world. I applaud all of you that have responded to this terrible problem. I hope Lexus wakes up before they realize a black circle in the next edition of consumers report for reliability. The owners are the true test of a vehicle with their experiences whether it be good or bad. Good night and the best to all of you.

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Acura owners had to campaign for signatures for a Honda service recall on the tranny. Do you like to put up a similiar web site, I am sure RX owners will love to give on line singatures.

Honda Tranny Petition

[LexKid630]

I had my oil changed tody on my 2000 RX300 and they stated that my transmission fluid was too dark in color.  Any ideas what causes this or if the fluid is just darker than normal. It only has 53000 miles on it.

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hey welcome to the club! yeah its good that you're caught it soon. Have them replace the fluid with new fluid. Pray that its not that bad so you wont have to replace the transmission. It's like a 4400 job and it's not fun. Then you'll be starting over as if you drove it off the lot the first day. Except in 5 years from now it'll probably happen again. Fix it and sell it. you might even get more for it if you tell the buyer it has a "brand new" transmission. They'll like the sound of that

[VGR]

I was changing my engine oil today and decided to do the trans pan oil change also. The oil was dark but no burnt smell, 21,700 miles 2000 RX300. T-IV at the Toyota dealer cost me $6.89 per Qt. !!! I put in 4qts, just a little over 4 came out. I did this since Carfax told me that  my car was from an area that is hilly and hot and I wanted to see just how the fluid looked for my peace of mind.Jeff

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At Florin Road Toyota in Sacramento the Type T-IV fluid is only $3.80 a quart in 1 quart bottles. That's the normal, proper, Parts Dept retail price. For peace of mind, continue changing the fluid whenever it starts to become somewhat darkish which might be every 10,000-20,000 miles. This is an extremely simple, low cost method to preserve the life of the AWD RX300 transmission. The owners here are grossly overreacting to a minor design flaw - inadequate fluid cooling - while overlooking the fact that the transmission will be durable if continuously supplied with clean fluid.

The V6 owners with the engine sludge issue have overreacted the same way. They fail to understand their engines will live for over 300,000 miles if they simply change their oil at least every 6 months or 5000 miles. But instead of simply changing their oil more often to compensate for a minor design flaw, these owners are fixated on "trying to get even" with Lexus or for designing an engine that cannot withstand the 7,500 mile oil change interval listed in their owners manual.

Why doesn't Lexus "face up to these design flaws" ?? I believe its because these "flaws" are just minor and unintentional engineering accidents that really don't affect the legendary 300,000 + mile reputation of Toyota / Lexus engines / transmissions IF the owner will simply adjust their preventive maintenance habits. Lexus may also figure it would be a tremendous waste of time, money and the earth's natural resources to replace millions of engine and transmissions that are capable of lasting 300,000 + miles if owners will simply adjust their preventive maintenance habits.

[31rx7]

This is an interesting discussion given my wife is considering an RX300 (see: "Buying A Used RX300", http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...howtopic=17178)

I would agree with many of the statements here, particularly:

- There is no excuse for a modern transmission failing in less than 100,000 miles

- Change your fluid as often as needed to minimize risk of failure.

- Lexus should step up and address this issue with the impacted owners.

Gives me more to research and look into.

[CALRX300]

There are something wrong with rx300 transmissions, I am not sure what it is but I have had two failures in the last few months. Lexus need to correct this problem...

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Thank you for your comment, Yes as more people participate we are learning that indeed the RX300 AWD has a serious transmission problem. Make your concerns heard at Lexus of America. They will never admit the seriousness of the failure until all of the AWD RX300 customers speak up. Your tranny is probably close to being toast. Sorry, join the rest of us in our grief with such a poor design that is not being addressed by Lexus. What a dissappointment for what could have been a good customer experience. Just wanted you to know it will cost $4400 or more if you go past warranty. Remember you only have 6 years or 70k miles to take advantage of the warranty. Do not let Lexus shun you off, Tell them the burnt fluid indicates failure and you want a new transmission.

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Yes, I have 99 RX300 and the transmission fail on the freeway without any warning. The car has 101 k miles but I don't expect the Lexus transmission fail. I bought it as 2nd owner and only drive 5000 miles. I heard a lot of RX300 owners have the same transmission broke down. I complaint to Lexus for replacement but they insist my car is over 30 k warrenty. Something wrong with Lexus. I strongly complaint that I am not the only one. Some of the RX owners had transmission fail around 50 k. Lexus will have specialist call me within 2 days to see what they can do. Would some one let me kown if you have the same experience. Thanks in advance.