Check Engine Light = 6 Months Of Car Payments

[g4driver]

OK Folks,

This is my first time on here, so be gentle. Bought my wife a Certified Pre-Owned 2000 ES-300 in 2001 and she has loved this car like no other. It has given her few problems and she loves driving it. The car now has 75,000 miles on it.

However, on a recent road trip, she noticed some light knocking from under the hood under load. She thought she might have gotten a bad tank of gas as she had stopped at an EL CHEAPO filling station along the way. At any rate, after filling the tank with a higher octane fuel, the knocking seemed to go away and returned only occasionally and with no discernable pattern.

A month later, the Check Engine AND the Traction Control Caution lights illuminated. They went out after refilling the car, but she wanted to have it checked out anyway, so she took it to our friendly Lexus Dealer.

They did their magic and diagnosed the car with the following problems:

Air Flow Meter - BAD

Bank1, Sensor1 Air Flow Sensor - BAD

Bank2, Sensor1 Air Flow Sensor - BAD

And then they told me what it was going to cost to fix it.

Now I need to replace my own personal Head Gasket because (drum roll please)... the quoted price to replace these three sensors is:

$1245 US !!! ($283 each for the bank sensors, $168 for the Air Flow Meter, and the rest is labor)

I told them to button the car back up, don't do anything to it and I'd get back to them later. I also told the guy he ought to come to my house and paint the damned thing for that kind of money. I think he felt I was being a bit of an !Removed!.

At any rate, I've seen some comments about this kind of problem before, but if any of you are experts, I'd appreciate a bit of advice. I'm thinking of farming this problem out to the local Goodyear service center - or even attempting the fix myself.

All replies are welcomed.

Thanks Much,

Al Greene

g4driver

night56owl@yahoo.com

[hammer008]

Sounds like you had some El Cheapo gas dirty up your system.

The same thing happened to me. What I did was use loads of fuel injector cleaners for about 3 months. The Engine light never came back on and from that I am guessing is that the crud on the sensors have burned/washed away.

Give it a try b4 spending the dough. Don't forget my Xmas card if it works! ;)

What is your gas milliage like?

[g4driver]

Thanks Hammer!

I kinda felt the same way and am royally *BLEEP*ed at the dealership for trying to involuntarily copulate with me!

As to the gas mileage, I don't know -- it's the wife's car and she isn't interested in keeping records. She did tell me that she thought that she was filling up more often. Of course her 30 mile commute to her new job might have something to do with that. At any rate, I told her that for the next few months, she has to keep track of the mileage, so I'll report back later.

In the meanwhile, thanks for the advice, that's pretty much what I was thinking since the light went out. It might save me a bunch of moolah. If ya get to Baltimore, look me up and I'll buy you a beer or three.

[jragosta]

Thanks Hammer!

I kinda felt the same way and am royally *BLEEP*ed at the dealership for trying to involuntarily copulate with me!

←

Look, you're driving a relatively high end car which contains high end components - and ones that aren't made in a high enough quantity to get huge economies of scale.

On top of that, you're dealing with a brand that excels at service. You're probably getting a free loaner car (as just one example).

No one's taking advantage of anyone. That's what it costs. You may be able to find some garage shop who will do it for less, but that carries its own risks. You'll have to decide if it's worth it.

Sorry, but I just get tired of people who immediately jump all over high end companies who are providing a premium service simply because they charge more than the cheapo high school dropout mechanic down the road installing used parts.

[sgriffith]

Be careful is all I can say. I had a bad sensor and did the exact same thing as was recommended and my vehicle started running to rich. That caused my catalytic converter to basically explode (yeah, it had a hole blown in the bottom of it)....or that is what we are speculating as to why it happened. The mechanic did say he had never seen it happen before. Replacing the catalytic converter & the sensor ran me about $2300 to get it out of the shop. So, be careful. I found an independent mechanic who is certified with Lexus & Toyota (he can even stamp your maintenance records and it will be honored by Lexus & Toyota) and his cost for the sensors (same Toyota parts....I made sure) was considerably less.....as was his labor charge. I actually found him through this site (JP Importz). So, just be careful when continuing to run the car with the check engine light on. Keep us posted on how it turns out.

[g4driver]

Thanks for the comments guys. The Check Engine light has gone out and I plan on monitoring fuel consumption. I also plan on checking into mechanics around my area who are competent if not certified Lexus/Toyota. What I will not do is pay a mechanic $200 an hour plus parts at a 100% markup. Not in this lifetime.

[bartkat]

Thanks for the comments guys.  The Check Engine light has gone out and I plan on monitoring fuel consumption.  I also plan on checking into mechanics around my area who are competent if not certified Lexus/Toyota.  What I will not do is pay a mechanic $200 an hour plus parts at a 100% markup.  Not in this lifetime.

←

Personally, I'd put the injector cleaner in the tank reset the ECU, and then take the car out an run the heck out of it for a couple of hundred miles. Sometimes you just got to blow the soot out of em.

[SW03ES]

Thanks for the comments guys.  The Check Engine light has gone out and I plan on monitoring fuel consumption.  I also plan on checking into mechanics around my area who are competent if not certified Lexus/Toyota.  What I will not do is pay a mechanic $200 an hour plus parts at a 100% markup.  Not in this lifetime.

←

First of all you're not paying a mechanic $200 an hour for labor, Lexus labor rates top out at around $100. Thats not at all out of line when compared to other luxury car marques. You get a free loaner worth $100 or so a day full of free gas etc etc. You are paying a high markup on parts, but most dealers I've come in contact with will use YOUR parts if you can find them wholesale and still give you the free loaner car which I personally feel is very sporting of them. The dealer isn't trying to rip you off, they diagnosed your problem like you asked them to do and told you what they would charge you to fix it. You elected not to which is your right. If you mouthed off to the sales rep who is just doing his job and he thought you were an !Removed!, he was right.

What you've come to realize is the Lexus is a luxury car, and luxury cars cost a lot of money to maintain when they break. Do you think a watch shop will charge you the same to fix a Rolex as they would a Seiko? No. The parts just cost more. You can use sensors from pepboys if you want but you risk voiding your powertrain warranty if they cause problems down the road.

Now, I don't blame you at all for wanting to find a more economical way to repair the car but I do fault you for assuming the dealer was trying to rip you off because they quoted you a price. Thats what that service costs at that dealership, take it or leave it. If you dont like it, leave it but don't fault the service tech who'se just doing his job.

What I would do is purchase those parts online wholesale from one of the parts outlets, lexus-parts.com or irontoad.com and take the car to an independent mechanic who has experience with Japanese cars. Make him your new best friend. He's still gonna charge you $70 an hour labor though. You'll also have to worry about taking a day off of work to sit around the shop etc. Thats what you're paying the extra $30 an hour for, convenience.

Mechanics make a lot of money. They have a skill most people don't have and they deserve to be paid to use that skill.

[SKperformance]

get a motorvac sounds like a carbon build up problem

[g4driver]

Thanks guys

[g4driver]

SKPerformance,

Can you tell me what a motorvac is?

Thanks

[bartkat]

SKPerformance,

Can you tell me what a motorvac is? 

Thanks

←

\

http://www.americanautoparts.com/Info/motorvac.htm

[supreme300]

or u can just keep going, my dealer (lex of kendall) said if u can live with the lite on and a slite drop in mpg then u dont have to do it. my bank 1 sensors 1 & 2 are shot, this is coming from a lex certified dude, i guess its for the hypochondriax out there. dont get me wrong if i had the extra grand to throw on it rite now i would just so that annoyng lite would go away, but grad school is hella expensive, specially at UofM of all places, so im holdin out for another couple of months, lites been on for 2 months allready, ive noticed only a slight drop in mpg, still runs like new with 153k on her.

[THE ONE]

OK Folks,

This is my first time on here, so be gentle.  Bought my wife a Certified Pre-Owned 2000 ES-300 in 2001 and she has loved this car like no other.  It has given her few problems and she loves driving it.  The car now has 75,000 miles on it.

However, on a recent road trip, she noticed some light knocking from under the hood under load.  She thought she might have gotten a bad tank of gas as she had stopped at an EL CHEAPO filling station along the way.  At any rate, after filling the tank with a higher octane fuel, the knocking seemed to go away and returned only occasionally and with no discernable pattern.

A month later, the Check Engine AND the Traction Control Caution lights illuminated.  They went out after refilling the car, but she wanted to have it checked out anyway, so she took it to our friendly Lexus Dealer.

They did their magic and diagnosed the car with the following problems:

Air Flow Meter - BAD

Bank1, Sensor1 Air Flow Sensor - BAD

Bank2, Sensor1 Air Flow Sensor - BAD

And then they told me what it was going to cost to fix it.

Now I need to replace my own personal Head Gasket because (drum roll please)... the quoted price to replace these three sensors is:

$1245 US  !!! ($283 each for the bank sensors, $168 for the Air Flow Meter, and the rest is labor)

I told them to button the car back up, don't do anything to it and I'd get back to them later.  I also told the guy he ought to come to my house and paint the damned thing for that kind of money.  I think he felt I was being a bit of an !Removed!.

At any rate, I've seen some comments about this kind of problem before, but if any of you are experts, I'd appreciate a bit of advice.  I'm thinking of farming this problem out to the local Goodyear service center - or even attempting the fix myself.

All replies are welcomed.

Thanks Much,

Al Greene

g4driver

night56owl@yahoo.com

←

HI, G4DRIVER

CERTIFIED PRE-OWNED CAR WARRANTY UP TO 3YEARS OR 100K MILES.

IS YOUR ES300 STILL UNDER WARRANTY?????

[Thienn]

Just curious, what was the error code? from what I heard, check engine light signal an unstable condition for the emission control system. That will trigger the ECU to put the car in "SAFE MODE" (hence the TRAC LIGHT OFF). You should be very concern once the lights start to flash! Anyhow, keep a close eye on it until you got the money to get it fix!

[g4driver]

They didn't give me error codes - they ony gave me the worksheet they used to tally the cost:

1.5 hrs Air Flow Meter Bad $325 ($168 parts incl)

1.5 hrs Bank 1, Sensor 1 AF Bad

1.5 hrs Bank 2, Sensor 1 AF Bad $920 ($566 parts incl) <-- both bank sensors

The Lights are extinguished (they actually went out before my wife took the car in) I did have them clean and flush the throttle body/fuel system and the car seems to be running well. Keeping my fingers crossed that this was the problem. I'm going to have the sensors re-tested next Wednesday.