2005 Ls430

[99lsguy]

BTW, buying a car is hardly an "investment".  It depreciates as soon as you drive off the lot...and lucky if you retain 50% of what you paid after 3 years.

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Absolutely right on that one............ My 99LS listed for $57K, bought it after 4 year lease for $23K........

$34,000 total = $8500 a year in depreciation (if sold at list....)

Depreciation is our friend before we buy........Now it is the enemy

[silvermate]

i'm sorry, is it me or is the same question being asked over and over again in this thread <_<

[99lsguy]

i'm sorry, is it me or is the same question being asked over and over again in this thread  <_<

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:D :D :D

[SW03ES]

Several people have already answered your question and expressed doubt that you can get an 05 LS430 for $1500 over invoice. I have, 99LSguy has, Ikirschner has, FlintUltra has, blake 918 has, ronsadvice has and he offered to help you try and you turned him down, Unlisted has, silermate has, MikeP has in other threads.

I'm starting to question whether or not you actually want our advice or if you just need someone to agree with you.

The fact of the matter is your G35 and the LS430 are totally different buying experiences. The G35 is an entry level luxury car, almost $40,000 cheaper than the LS you're shopping for. Infiniti has much lower demand than Lexus and much lower resale value. Infinitis will ALWAYS sell at steeper discounts than Lexuses. The LS is the flagship model, most dealers don't even stock UL cars they have to be ordered so you're not "rescuing" a salesperson by buying an LS like you are by buying a G35 off the lot. Its just a totally different strata of car and a different buying experience. If you offer a dealership $1500 over invoice for that car they'll laugh at you. Like we've said before $66k is an excellent price on that car. If thats too much then you really need to look at a different car.

I apologize for getting frustrated but we're trying to help you and you refuse to accept what we're saying and keep asking the same question over and over.

[grizzly660fan]

Several people have already answered your question and expressed doubt that you can get an 05 LS430 for $1500 over invoice. I have, 99LSguy has, Ikirschner has, FlintUltra has, blake 918 has, ronsadvice has and he offered to help you try and you turned him down, Unlisted has, silermate has, MikeP has in other threads.

I'm starting to question whether or not you actually want our advice or if you just need someone to agree with you.

The fact of the matter is your G35 and the LS430 are totally different buying experiences. The G35 is an entry level luxury car, almost $40,000 cheaper than the LS you're shopping for. Infiniti has much lower demand than Lexus and much lower resale value. Infinitis will ALWAYS sell at steeper discounts than Lexuses. The LS is the flagship model, most dealers don't even stock UL cars they have to be ordered so you're not "rescuing" a salesperson by buying an LS like you are by buying a G35 off the lot. Its just a totally different strata of car and a different buying experience. If you offer a dealership $1500 over invoice for that car they'll laugh at you. Like we've said before $66k is an excellent price on that car. If thats too much then you really need to look at a different car.

I apologize for getting frustrated but we're trying to help you and you refuse to accept what we're saying and keep asking the same question over and over.

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I vote you keep going on your quest. while its probably not common to to purchase a lexus with your parameters, it does happen.

There are lots of factors that determine what the bottom price a dealer is willing to accept. (dealer allocations, strength of sales, etc) There is always that exception.

I like you go for the absolute lowest price and encourage you to continue. I am also not willing to put $5k of profit into a dealers pockets. Either you save the money or they make the money.

since you have mentioned you have shipping options available (I would like to know more about that perhaps) keep shopping and looking.

while it was mentioned by another to threaten to get up and leave, I prefer another approach, I get very serious about the purchase and make the dealer know, either he sells this car to me, or I buy from another dealer. that tends to soften the dealer, and I am always willing to put my money where my mouth is and purchase on the spot. therefore I am not wasting his time, and he knows not to waste my time. If we can't agree on terms, then we part friends and I do as I said and purchase from the other dealer who will meet my terms.

to answer SW03ES just because she doesn't accept the information you offer (and others) does not mean she isn't listening. she might be trying to dig deeper into other opinions than those offered. nothing wrong with that in my book.

please post your success when you find it. I find this thread interesting.

[THE ONE]

Several people have already answered your question and expressed doubt that you can get an 05 LS430 for $1500 over invoice. I have, 99LSguy has, Ikirschner has, FlintUltra has, blake 918 has, ronsadvice has and he offered to help you try and you turned him down, Unlisted has, silermate has, MikeP has in other threads.

I'm starting to question whether or not you actually want our advice or if you just need someone to agree with you.

The fact of the matter is your G35 and the LS430 are totally different buying experiences. The G35 is an entry level luxury car, almost $40,000 cheaper than the LS you're shopping for. Infiniti has much lower demand than Lexus and much lower resale value. Infinitis will ALWAYS sell at steeper discounts than Lexuses. The LS is the flagship model, most dealers don't even stock UL cars they have to be ordered so you're not "rescuing" a salesperson by buying an LS like you are by buying a G35 off the lot. Its just a totally different strata of car and a different buying experience. If you offer a dealership $1500 over invoice for that car they'll laugh at you. Like we've said before $66k is an excellent price on that car. If thats too much then you really need to look at a different car.

I apologize for getting frustrated but we're trying to help you and you refuse to accept what we're saying and keep asking the same question over and over.

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SIR, FROM WHAT YOU STATED ABOVE, I AM 100% AGREE WITH YOU AND ALSO

I THINK THAT """"SHE IS NOT READY FOR THE LS430 YET"""" YOU WAS RIGHT, MAYBE SHE NEED TO LOOK AT A DIFFERENT CAR. (SIR, I LIKE YOUR INPUT ).

[SW03ES]

Its always worth a try but you've got to be reasonable. Expecting a dealer to sell an 05 UL LS430 at a $9500 discount is simply unreasonable. Car salesmen and dealers have to make a living too, and thats bleeding them of every last red cent dry. Doing business with car dealers gives me a somewhat unique perspective I understand, but this is why people hate buying cars. They walk into a dealership expecting the dealer to make $50 on the car with no concern of fair market value and no desire to forge a lasting business relationship and automatically assume that the dealer is trying to screw them when they can't meet their price. Thats just not fair to anybody.

Lexus dealers WILL let you walk trust me, one let me walk over $700. The dealer that was $700 less screwed up the order and I wound up going back to the first dealer who, knowing the other dealer, had already ordered me the car knowing I'd be back. I happily paid the extra $700 and now I have a great salesperson to use every time I buy a new Lexus. She's a great resource and still checks up to make sure I'm satisfied and has helped me get some warranty issues covered. There's a thread in here somewhere about a member who had a similar situation. You get what you pay for, a dealer willing to make $1000 profit on a $70,000 car isn't going to offer you the level of service someone with more confidence will.

Do you have any idea how much the salesman is making off of a car with $2100 profit ($1500 over invoice plus the $600 holdback)? Probably along the lines of $2-400.

Business works best when both sides are reasonable.

[VGR]

any particular dealerships you have worked with in the past that are reputable and good to do business with?

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Lexus of Westmister near Long Beach is the 2nd or 3rd largest dealer in southern California and unlike many other dealers who act aloof and will let price shoppers walk, Westminster actively and aggressively pursues bargain hunter oriented Lexus buyers. If you are looking for the best selection and are willing to pay a little higher price, Longo Lexus in El Monte, CA is by far the largest Lexus dealer in the USA.

[SW03ES]

Yeah if you're going to look for the best deal, CA is definately the place to go.

[grizzly660fan]

Its always worth a try but you've got to be reasonable. Expecting a dealer to sell an 05 UL LS430 at a $9500 discount is simply unreasonable. Car salesmen and dealers have to make a living too, and thats bleeding them of every last red cent dry. Doing business with car dealers gives me a somewhat unique perspective I understand, but this is why people hate buying cars. They walk into a dealership expecting the dealer to make $50 on the car with no concern of fair market value and no desire to forge a lasting business relationship and automatically assume that the dealer is trying to screw them when they can't meet their price. Thats just not fair to anybody.

Lexus dealers WILL let you walk trust me, one let me walk over $700. The dealer that was $700 less screwed up the order and I wound up going back to the first dealer who, knowing the other dealer, had already ordered me the car knowing I'd be back. I happily paid the extra $700 and now I have a great salesperson to use every time I buy a new Lexus. She's a great resource and still checks up to make sure I'm satisfied and has helped me get some warranty issues covered. There's a thread in here somewhere about a member who had a similar situation. You get what you pay for, a dealer willing to make $1000 profit on a $70,000 car isn't going to offer you the level of service someone with more confidence will.

Do you have any idea how much the salesman is making off of a car with $2100 profit ($1500 over invoice plus the $600 holdback)? Probably along the lines of $2-400.

Business works best when both sides are reasonable.

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nobody said anything about being "unreasonable". seems if you work with car dealers maybe you have some empathy for them than the average consumer does not have or need to have. yet another reason the original post should obtain other opinions.

In this case, the person purchasing isn't going to have a "lasting relationship" with the dealer. she is going to purchase it, have it shipped to her location. the relationship will be with the dealer in her area (if she services the car at lexus dealers).

Also, no one said anything about causing a dealer or salesman to lose money. very very seldom will a dealer sell a vehicle for a loss. there are some occasions yes, however that is not the norm. Also the original post wasn't seeking info on what price would cause the dealer to lose money.

there are a lot of things that cause the dealer to have more profit than what is posted. often there are factory to dealer incentives for example. another way a dealer makes more money is if they are beating their parts sales, or new car sales goals for the year. every part or car they sell after they meet their goals often comes with additional discounts to the dealer.

I also think that $200-400 commission for about an hour worth of work by the salesman is more than fair. the next customer coming along that pays msrp will more than make up for any shortness this one deal may make.

Also, with these cars just hitting the lot, this is the most profitable time for the dealer, its likely if it just arrived and he sells it right off, he hasn't had to make his flooring payment for the car yet. also, advertising costs have likely not hit, or any other operating costs.

you are 100% correct that a dealer will let you walk over a few hundred dollars. that is their choice and I don't hold a grudge personally.

so the "$9500" margin could certainly be more, and again, I agree with the original post, that is a lot of dosh to make on one deal. That is a very good reason to try and find a better deal (from the consumer perspective).

maybe the research and calling/faxing lexus dealers will side with your opinion, but maybe it will side with the opinion of the original post.

I hope they post the results so we can see how this interesting post turns out.

just my $0.02 worth, take it or leave it.

[SW03ES]

I agree on all accounts, but my original opinion remains, you're not going to be able to find an 04 LS430 for $9500 off MSRP. Lexus doesn't have factory to dealer incentives on new cars, all they have is dealer holdback and the profit margin above the invoice. They run specials where Lexus gives their best dealers incentives to sell cars at lower prices like the December to Remember sales event or model year end closeouts but the incentives don't come and go like with other car makes, such as Infiniti. If this were december to remember or the model year end closeout I'd say she'd have a better chance, but its not. Thats actually a good idea, I hadn't thought about her waiting until december. She could also TRY waiting for January, January is the slowest month in the car business. I get paid per unit sold that includes my customer retention package and I make way less money in January than in other months of the year simply because less cars are sold.

You've also got to remember that its not just the salesman that must agree to sell the car. I agree, a $2-$500 comission on an hour of work is a worthwhile use of one's time, he's got to get the price cleared by the sales manager too. The sales manager looks at this car that normally has a $7,000 profit margin being sold on a $1500 margin. Is he going to release the car or is he going to wait until 4 days from now when they can make $7,000 off the deal? The choice is simple.

If this were an ES330 then I'd say she could get it for even $500 over invoice because:

1. Dealers have a lot of them

2. They sit on the lot a lot longer.

Like I said, most dealers don't stock UL LS430s they have to order them. When the car has to be ordered it increases the time required to do the job and the dealership is less likely to be generous in what gets taken off the price because it removes an incentive for them, to move a car that has been taking up space on their lot.

[SW03ES]

Just for fun I did a little poking around and got some fleet prices on the LS430. You're almost definately not going to do better than fleet on one of these cars. The best price I found for the LS430 UL was $65,975. Thats $5,000 off list. If you'd like the name of the fleet company I'd be happy to give it to you. They have an attractive lease on that car too, $680 a month.

[brentstevekitty]

I am finally able to "move up" like George and Weezy to the LS430. I have been doing my homework and learning all about buying a new car -- but there is so much to learn and I never feel like I get a "deal" when I buy a car.

In Tampa, FL I am looking at an LS430 that is loaded except for the GPS and ultra stereo package. The MSRP is $62,400. The invoice as near as I can determine via NADA and KBB is about $52,300.

Now I have heard that "holdback" is about 3% on this car from Lexus to the dealer?

I am wondering what y'all think is a FAIR price for the dealer and a good deal for me?

I appreciate any tips you might have to help me get it too!

Thanks,

Brent

[SW03ES]

Check out www.edmunds.com they have the invoice pricing and a true market value price which is *usually* high.

You can also check out www.fleetrates.com and see some of the fleet pricing on that car, thats what I'd shoot for ;)

[brentstevekitty]

Thanks for everyone's advice. I purchased the LS430 yesterday after researching it the best this novice could. Needless to say I think I got a reasonable deal and I know the dealer made their necessary profit too.

My 430 is Mercury Metallic w/Black Leather (perforated) seats. I went with the Premium Package, Smart Access, Cargo net, trunk mat, wheel locks, etc. The MSRP was $58,900 and invoice was $51,100 -- as near as I could figure. I purchased the car for $54,000.

Thanks for all your assistance... I take delivery next Tuesday -- can't wait!

Regards,

Brent

:D

Check out www.edmunds.com they have the invoice pricing and a true market value price which is *usually* high.

You can also check out www.fleetrates.com and see some of the fleet pricing on that car, thats what I'd shoot for ;)

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[99lsguy]

Thanks for everyone's advice.  I purchased the LS430 yesterday after researching it the best this novice could.  Needless to say I think I got a reasonable deal and I know the dealer made their necessary profit too.

My 430 is Mercury Metallic w/Black Leather (perforated) seats.  I went with the Premium Package, Smart Access, Cargo net, trunk mat, wheel locks, etc.  The MSRP was $58,900 and invoice was $51,100 -- as near as I could figure.  I purchased the car for $54,000.

Thanks for all your assistance... I take delivery next Tuesday -- can't wait!

Regards,

Brent

Brent,

Welcom to LOC!!! That's a fair price - $5k under MSRP like SW had mentioned before.... Good for everyone

What a vechicle!!!! - the LS is quite a machine.....especially your model.

The interior is beautiful and spacious, quiet - smooth ride...

It is a car that gracefully does its job very very well day in and day out...

Congrats!!!

[SW03ES]

Brent-

Thats an excellent price, you couldn't have hoped to do much better than that. How hard was it to negotiate to there? I've found most Lexus dealers are pretty fair and will quote you a fair rpice right off the bat, at least around here.

[anitafagina]

Thanks all for your input. Over the weekend, I took delivery of a new 2005 LS430 with U/L, Interior Package with Comfort Leather Trim, 18" Chrome Wheel, and Preferred Accessary Package (included). What a remarkable car! I absolutely LOVE it!! What a deal!!!

[SW03ES]

Congratulations! What kind of deal did you wind up getting?

[anitafagina]

Congratulations! What kind of deal did you wind up getting?

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I paid $65,484 for a LS430 with MSRP $73,484. :-)