$13k > Buy A Used Lx Or Rx?

[DKRC-2003]

If you had around $13K to burn, would you buy a used RX 300 or a LX 450 SUV?

[1SICKLEX]

If you had around $13K to burn, would you buy a used RX 300 or a LX 450 SUV?

←

The RX. It's newer and will cost less to maintain.

[RX in NC]

Neither. Get a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Better performance, much more 4x4 capability, and no transmission failures, oil seal leaks, premature oxygen sensor failures, and cracking exhaust manifold chronic problems to worry about....

[blake918]

RX...looks great, and with Lexus reliability, it'll last a long time. Be sure to see documentation of regular oil changes because 97-01 1MZFE V6's sludged if the owner's didn't change the oil regularly....as in every 3k-5k miles.

[93lexuses]

I like the RX. :)

[SW03ES]

Actually there is a somewhat large group of dissatisfied owners trying to make Chrysler pay for their faulty transmissions in their Grand Cherokees and a gaggle of complaints and a pending investigation with the NHTSA about Grand Cherokees shifting from drive to reverse gears unexpectedly. Grand Cherokees also have as many domestic SUVs do extremely poor front brakes and are very prone to rotar warpage.

This is a quote from a Yahoo Jeep Grand Cherokee forum

My 2000 JEEP Grand Cherokee was the worst purchase I ever made!! I bought the vehicle used with 26,000 miles a week after I purchased it - pulsating in the wheel - new rotors, brakes and calipers all the way around - pretty costly as it was conveniently not covered under warranty - at 50,000 miles the same friggin' thing - plus lots of pads in between - also had to replace the suspension all the way around at 52,000 again quite expensive - not long after that a fuel pump and a rear axle seal - more brake pads - at 70,000 miles a new tranny - $1,860 and a month later at 72,000 miles they tell me I need all new tie rods and u-joints or ball joints plus another set of 4 new tires that don't even have 20,000 miles on them because the tie rods have ruined them!! It was going to be another grand - I got rid of the piece of *BLEEP* the same day!! I will never own another one and feel sorry for anyone that does. Every mechanic I've talked to says JEEP Grand Cherokee's are known for this crap!!

Another

I am looking for any information regarding the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 2002. I am having transmission problems. Vehicle has 48,000. I was given a 36,000 mile warranty and now see the warranties are at 70,000 for this model. My dealer wants $4,000 to repair. I need amunission--any recalls or suggestions to persuade them to see it my way.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Another

I previously owned a 95 Cherokee Sport (which I loved) and figured I'd "trade up" to a Grand Cherokee which is fully loaded with leather interior. What a piece of junk! I slip all over the place in the snow even in 4WD. There are numerous "little things" like a cracked center console from the seatbelt latch hitting it, the seal on the front drivers window coming up, (I could go on). My husband refuses to drive it and the kids complain they are too cramped in the back seat as far as leg room goes. Don't get me started on it's sluggish response and poor braking (already had the front brakes replaced at 8K) Inow have 17K on it and will be trading it in before the months end. The only problem is that the depreciation on these Jeeps is tremendous. I say good for you if you like this vehicle but I look forward to something else.

Another

Yeah you want to dump that Jeep before the noise you mentioned end's up showing itself for what it truly is? Front diff bearing's on the way out and nothing you can do to stop it from costing a ton to repair even if you replace the bearings now.

Another

I have a 97 Laredo, 80K miles. Last week I spent about $400 on a cracked radiator! After many visits to the mechanic, I finally got tired and just changed the darn radiator. This week my friggen transmission went out, and it's not even a 4wd!

Another

I have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo and I've had it in twice for fuel injection problems. The company said it was related to the recall the first time. This last time, I got charged to fix it. And, I also have the brake, rotor, caliper problem, however, it didn't start until 40k miles. I was informed there is a "bulletin" out about brake, rotor, caliper problem, but it is not an official recall yet. Their fix to the brake, rotor, caliper problem is nearly $600.

There are more but you can read them yourself at http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/...n/Posts/fid/148

My point? You can find a group of people dissatisfied with almost anything. It would appear that even the great Grand Cherokee is not beyond reproach.

As for your dillema DKRC I'd actually look at an LX450. Based off the Land Cruiser it is beyond tested to last for ages and ages. Much beefier than the RX.

[RX in NC]

It's true that any vehicle not properly maintained will in fact be dragged down by serious problems. But the Grand Cherokee has one of the best true 4x4 SUV performance and maintenance records in the industry. It's been around in various flavors since early 1993 so Jeep has had the opportunity to winnow out the early flaws and continue to improve on the succeeding model years.

We've had two of them in our family (my wife's was a 1996 with the 5.2 litre V8 and my daughter's is a 2000 with the 4 litre I-6) and both of them have been absolutely bulletproof. We kept my wife's beyond 140,000 miles, and other than routine maintenance I had to replace one oxygen sensor and the battery (both on my cost) and the catalytic converter (under the emissions warranty so no cost to me). My daughter's is approaching 60,000 miles, and other than routine maintenance I've had to replace a sunroof motor relay and the battery (my cost).

They're tough, fast, reliable, easy-to-maintain 4x4's that represent the best overall buy in the SUV market in my opinion. I wish we had purchased another one instead of me giving in to my wife's current RX300 when she developed "Lexus fever" a few years back. One thing is certain in our household - we'll return to the Grand Cherokee line-up when the time rolls around to replace our troublesome RX300....

[SW03ES]

But see, I can say all the same about the RX. You've lit into me on several occasions for believing that the issues you and some others have experienced with the RX aren't as widespread as you think, yet when I collect this information about the Grand Cherokee from a Grand Cherokee board you automatically write it off as isolated and because of poor maintenance! Read those posts! Thats not because of poor maintenance! You say you've had two, well my family has had 3 Lexuses and I know several people with RX's and they've been totally bulletproof. Lexus has THE best satisfaction and long tern dependability rating in the industry, and the RX is at or near the top of its class. Everything you just said about the Grand Cherokee in the face of what I posted is exactly what I've said to you and others about the RX! I find that hypocricy really amusing.

"The advice you're giving this person to buy a Grand Cherokee in the face of these problems is dangerous."

I guess the two of us aren't so different after all huh? You like Grand Cherokees, I like Lexuses and niether one of us buy into the claims that either vehicle is wrought with these problems. I guess if either of us lives in a fantacy world about these two vehicles, we're they're together huh? I'll bring the iced tea.

[molocka12]

You must consider your needs if room is a factor the LX 450 with 7 passenger would be a great choice.

If the extra room is not necessary the RX may be better for you.

[blake918]

You like Grand Cherokees, I like Lexuses and niether one of us buy into the claims that either vehicle is wrought with these problems.

←

Steve, that's true, but you are making your judgements on real data from owners complied by the likes of Consumer Reports, JD Power & Assoc, intellichoice, edmunds, and the list continues that all favor Lexus's excellent reliability history.

RX in NC, did you buy your RX brand new?

[RX in NC]

SW03ES,

There's no hypocrisy and no fantasy involved here. Both the Grand Cherokee and the RX have been "successful" vehicles for their individual manufacturers. And all vehicles have flaws, some more dangerous than others. Our RX happened to have (and may still have) a very dangerous flaw - its transmission. I've done everything I can do to get Lexus to address the issue, and they have - for me. But there are others out there with the same or similar circumstances who are being told that nothing is wrong with their vehicle. That's my biggest concern. I'm a 6'7", 245-pound !Removed!-chewing Great Dane and I will eventually have my way with any dealership general manager if I also maintain my professionalism and documentation to prove my position. My 100% success rate in forcing dealership repairs over the past year proves that. But there are many others out there who don't know what to do or where to turn. I truly feel for them.

blake918,

No, we bought the vehicle from a well-respected local retailer of "upscale" vehicles (usually Mercedes and BMW with the occasional Lexus and Infiniti also available). One of the benefits that caused me to purchase this RX was its full service history every 5,000 miles at the Lexus dealership it was sold from. Even its new tires were purchased at the Lexus dealership - can you imagine purchasing a set of tires from your Lexus dealership? Imagine the mark-up for that little transaction! The T-IV fluid was changed at 15,000 and again at 30,000 miles by the dealership. This vehicle was as spotless and cosmetically perfect as I'd ever seen for an SUV with 32,000 miles on it. I had the opportunity to check it out thoroughly along with one of my mechanic friends since the retailer was willing to let me drive the vehicle for a weekend before I decided to go ahead with it.

Pre-owned vehicles can be your best protection against major depreciation as long as you know what you are doing (and what you are buying). My wife's previous 1996 Grand Cherokee was purchased pre-owned at less than 11,000 miles, my daughter's current 2000 Grand Cherokee was purchased pre-owned at less than 16,000 miles, and my current 1999 Dodge Ram was purchased at less than 12,000 miles. I obtained the complete service history of all of these vehicles and took my time inspecting and investigating them prior to purchasing them. All three vehicles have been absolutely bulletproof. Part of that is due to the quality of the vehicles, and part of that is due to my meticulous compulsion to maintain them properly. If you want your vehicle to have a long service life for you, then you must develop the attitude that no one will take care of your vehicle(s) as well as you will yourself.

I've spent more time battling problems with this RX than I have with the 1996 Jeep, 2000 Jeep, and 1999 Ram combined....

[SW03ES]

SW03ES,

There's no hypocrisy and no fantasy involved here.  Both the Grand Cherokee and the RX have been "successful" vehicles for their individual manufacturers.  And all vehicles have flaws, some more dangerous than others.  Our RX happened to have (and may still have) a very dangerous flaw  -  its transmission.  I've done everything I can do to get Lexus to address the issue, and they have  -  for me.  But there are others out there with the same or similar circumstances who are being told that nothing is wrong with their vehicle.  That's my biggest concern.  I'm a 6'7", 245-pound !Removed!-chewing Great Dane and I will eventually have my way with any dealership general manager if I also maintain my professionalism and documentation to prove my position.  My 100% success rate in forcing dealership repairs over the past year proves that.  But there are many others out there who don't know what to do or where to turn.  I truly feel for them.

←

I'm not saying this isn't the case, but what you've seen here from this Jeep forum is that MULTIPLE owners are having the exact same problem getting support for their Jeeps. You were lucky with your Jeeps, unlucky with your Lexus. If you're going to say the Lexus is a poor vehicle accross the board then you have to turn right around and agree that the Jeep is too, these people have had all of these issues and can't get any relief from Chrysler. My one and only point is you can find people that have serious problems with every vehicle, does it mean ALL the vehicles across the board are bad, or that telling people to purchase a said vehicle is "dangerous" advice as you've accused me of giving? No, as your experience with your Jeeps proves.

[monarch]

Jeeps, like many other American cars, would be incredibly popular if they were reliable and durable like most Asian cars. Just basic common sense. But Americans don't even try to make their cars reliable and durable. To generate sales, American car makers rely on eye catching bold styling and cool sounding Hemi V8's; e.g. Chrysler 300.

For years and years the entire Jeep line has had one of the worst frequency of repair records of any car make in Consumer Reports owner surveys.

[SW03ES]

In all fairness though, second to the Explorer the Grand Cherokee is already the best selling SUV in America. It sells FAR more units than the next most popular asian SUV, the Toyota 4 Runner. In fact some say the Grand Cherokee (which sells just over 300,000 units a year) is in fact THE best selling SUV to consumers because of the relatively high fleet sales percentage of the Explorer (which sells just over 400,000 units a year. The Asian utes are catching up, but the US still has the market cornered on SUVs and trucks no question, reliable or not.

[RX in NC]

Think about the background and history from where today's Jeep evolved from. 4x4 capability is truly inherent in the Jeep's legacy, and the overall concept of what we know today as the SUV sprang from providing 4x4 capability to the masses more than three decades ago. Jeep pioneered this concept and had a head start on everybody else as a result. They've done a good job with product evolution over the years, while a number of manufacturers have not and are now suffering for it.

We've had a total of six Jeeps in our family since the early 1980s. All six performed extremely well during their functional lifespans in our household. They were maintained properly, and they required a minimum of non-routine maintenance repairs (and NO transmission repairs, which I consider to be the most major automotive repair due to its complexity and cost). Perhaps you can attribute "luck" to just two vehicles, but you certainly can't chalk up six-for-six to "luck". Like it or not Lexus fans, it ain't just "luck". These were and are solid, well-engineered vehicles that require a minimum of time and expense to keep them going. And I don't believe that anyone who has owned a Lexus for a significant period of time would be willing to say that about what it costs to keep a Lexus roadworthy over a 130,000 to 150,000 mile lifespan in the typical home these days....

[SW03ES]

My dad had his LS for 6 years and 160,000 miles and it never really cost him anything overly expensive to maintain it. He paid for the dealership service but he didn't HAVE to do that. Nothing ever went wrong with the car, I think it needed ball joints at like 140k and at 160k the air ride shocks were getting a little warn. He traded it on a new one. We have a friend that has 4 Lexuses, all over 200,000 miles one ES250, two ES300s and an LS400. One of the ES300s has over 300,000 miles. None of them have ever had anything but routine maintenance done to them and the occasional repair that just comes with the territory for their age. We have a neighbor with a 2001 RX300 with over 100,000 miles and they've never had any kind of serious out of maintenance repair. The reason its so "expensive" to maintain a Lexus is people take them to the dealer. The dealers are abhorrently expensive, but no more so than any other luxury car. So your point is invalid.

All I'm saying is your experience cannot be attributed to the entire Lexus line or the experience of all Lexus owners as a whole. You have a bad car, and you have a mindset that makes dealing with such issues very difficult. There is nothing Lexus or the dealer is going to be able to do to please you, you had your mind up the day the car hit your driveway. Your very first post on here was that your wife had made you buy an RX300, and that you hated it. Thats before you ever had any problems at all. You're hardly an unbiased source of information.

You also continue to ignore all the evidence of unhappy owners of their Jeeps I've presented. Because you've had a good experience, their bad experiences are invalid. They've abused their trucks or not maintained them properly. Because you've had a bad excperience with your Lexus, all our good experiences are invalid. It seems that to you, only your experience or experiences that match yours can be possibly correct, everyone else must just be insane. The hypocricy is so thick here you could cut it with a knife.

I hope you'll remember this next time you set your guns on one of us who is satisfied with their vehicle.

[SW03ES]

Links to consumer advocation sites, problems with Jeeps and most notably the Grand Cherokee:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/jeep.htm

Same consumer advocacy group about Lexus:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/lexus.html

Compare the nature of the complaints! The complaints on the Jeeps are on the whole about newer cars, more serious problems. Some even safety complaints. The Lexus complaints are mostly about 10 year old cars and 700 repair bills. I can't remember the last time my Explorer went in for service and it cost less than $700. $700 repair bills on that make me thrilled!

[blake918]

One extremely happy Lexus owner here! :D 1995 LS400 with 238,1xx miles. The only non maintinance item to go was the power steering pump at 210k. Other than the pump, nothing but the most reliable service has come from this car. I don't do anything aprticularly special to the car...just brakes every so often and regular engine oil changes and tranny fluid changes every 5k miles(as per maintinance guru, Agent 99). This car doesn't have a single stamp in the service history...not even the commplimentary 30day check up! lol We also have an ES300 that has the same stroy as above, but it only has 125k. Both are very good cars, and we will buy Lexus again and again!

I would not be so hard on a car that you buy pre owned; you do not know what it has been through before you owned it. There are numerous different things that could have happened to the car while in the previous owner's care; like you said nobody takes care of things like yourself which is very, very true! And, it could very well just be a problematic one, and just bacuse it has all of it's dealer service stamps, doesn't mean that the car is good for life. IMO, most of the things they do at the service intervals are worthless(like inspecting the chassis, topping off fluids, flushing various fluids) except for 60k(I believe they do plugs and wires/coils here. I might have these wrong though!)) and 90k(service timing belt and componets). No doubt the Jeep is better off road...the RX is on a unibody, car platform with a small, non-muscular engine. ;)

[denslexusgx470]

Actually there is a somewhat large group of dissatisfied owners trying to make Chrysler pay for their faulty transmissions in their Grand Cherokees and a gaggle of complaints and a pending investigation with the NHTSA about Grand Cherokees shifting from drive to reverse gears unexpectedly. Grand Cherokees also have as many domestic SUVs do extremely poor front brakes and are very prone to rotar warpage.

This is a quote from a Yahoo Jeep Grand Cherokee forum

My 2000 JEEP Grand Cherokee was the worst purchase I ever made!! I bought the vehicle used with 26,000 miles a week after I purchased it - pulsating in the wheel - new rotors, brakes and calipers all the way around - pretty costly as it was conveniently not covered under warranty - at 50,000 miles the same friggin' thing - plus lots of pads in between - also had to replace the suspension all the way around at 52,000 again quite expensive - not long after that a fuel pump and a rear axle seal - more brake pads - at 70,000 miles a new tranny - $1,860 and a month later at 72,000 miles they tell me I need all new tie rods and u-joints or ball joints plus another set of 4 new tires that don't even have 20,000 miles on them because the tie rods have ruined them!! It was going to be another grand - I got rid of the piece of *BLEEP* the same day!! I will never own another one and feel sorry for anyone that does. Every mechanic I've talked to says JEEP Grand Cherokee's are known for this crap!!

Another

I am looking for any information regarding the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 2002. I am having transmission problems. Vehicle has 48,000. I was given a 36,000 mile warranty and now see the warranties are at 70,000 for this model. My dealer wants $4,000 to repair. I need amunission--any recalls or suggestions to persuade them to see it my way.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Another

I previously owned a 95 Cherokee Sport (which I loved) and figured I'd "trade up" to a Grand Cherokee which is fully loaded with leather interior. What a piece of junk! I slip all over the place in the snow even in 4WD. There are numerous "little things" like a cracked center console from the seatbelt latch hitting it, the seal on the front drivers window coming up, (I could go on). My husband refuses to drive it and the kids complain they are too cramped in the back seat as far as leg room goes. Don't get me started on it's sluggish response and poor braking (already had the front brakes replaced at 8K) Inow have 17K on it and will be trading it in before the months end. The only problem is that the depreciation on these Jeeps is tremendous. I say good for you if you like this vehicle but I look forward to something else.

Another

Yeah you want to dump that Jeep before the noise you mentioned end's up showing itself for what it truly is? Front diff bearing's on the way out and nothing you can do to stop it from costing a ton to repair even if you replace the bearings now.

Another

I have a 97 Laredo, 80K miles. Last week I spent about $400 on a cracked radiator! After many visits to the mechanic, I finally got tired and just changed the darn radiator. This week my friggen transmission went out, and it's not even a 4wd!

Another

I have a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo and I've had it in twice for fuel injection problems. The company said it was related to the recall the first time. This last time, I got charged to fix it. And, I also have the brake, rotor, caliper problem, however, it didn't start until 40k miles. I was informed there is a "bulletin" out about brake, rotor, caliper problem, but it is not an official recall yet. Their fix to the brake, rotor, caliper problem is nearly $600.

There are more but you can read them yourself at http://www.autobytel.com/content/research/...n/Posts/fid/148

My point? You can find a group of people dissatisfied with almost anything. It would appear that even the great Grand Cherokee is not beyond reproach.

As for your dillema DKRC I'd actually look at an LX450. Based off the Land Cruiser it is beyond tested to last for ages and ages. Much beefier than the RX.

←

OMG! :o Jeep's out of my list now! :chairshot:

[denslexusgx470]

Lx450/Rx300, i'd say Rx300, chances are that there will be less probs with it. and gas wise, LX is a gas hussler! ;)

[SW03ES]

I don't know, the Land Cruiser is solid and trouble free.

[RX in NC]

SW03ES,

Your tendency to make up fictional posts about what I wrote and when I wrote it continues to annoy me. My initial post on this forum, in early September 2003, described our intermittent transmission behavior problems during first-trip-in-the-morning conditions on cool mornings that were beginning to occur as the seasons changed from summer to autumn. I simply asked if anyone else on the forum had experienced the same symptoms and had investigated why. I would not have searched out this forum had we not experienced a major problem with the vehicle. I never said that I hated the vehicle or that my wife made me buy it - that is either a figment of your imagination or you made it up yourself as a point to argue with me in an effort to state your position.

Your "life experiences" are just not sufficient to have any credibility in my eyes, and now you're fabricating statements that I did not make and once again attempting to put words in my mouth. This forum has been a great source of information from those who have experienced similar circumstances to mine. You do not fall into that category, and I've basically learned to ignore you. I see no reason to change that philosophy at this point. Case closed.

[SW03ES]

And your bullheaded stubborness, arrogance, rudeness, ignorance, and hypocricy don't establish any credibility for you in my eyes either. Age doesn't make wisdom, as you'll learn eventually. Maybe when you get a little older. Ignore me if you want, you can't argue with what I'm presenting here and I believe you're incapable of even considering that you could be incorrect so I'd suggest its the best thing for you to do. You are in the wrong here and you know it.

I try to have a legitimate discussion about this with you by providing evidence of my case and a description of why I believe the way I do and you totally write me off again because of my age. If you can't argue with my experiences discount them right? Cut them down, they don't count because of my age huh? Cowardly. I've accomplished more at 23 then you ever will, get used to it.

Buy that Grand Cherokee quick please and get out of our hair. www.jeepsunlimited.com will welcome you with open arms.

[RX in NC]

Matthew McNally,

Please step in here and counsel this guy. Yes, our opinions are as different as night and day, but he has now resorted to fabricating posts and statements attributed to me, calling me names, and slinging direct insults. This is truly childish behavior. I neither expect nor desire an apology from him, but please address this issue for the good of your entire membership. Thank you for your services.

[SW03ES]

YOU are the one who began discriminating against me because of my age. You've done this before and you knew precisely how it would make me react. I was perfectly willing to respect your opinions and discuss and debate them with you as equal members, you resorted to discrediting me YET AGAIN because of my age and suggesting YET AGAIN that my opinion is not as valid as yours. Don't play the innocent victim here because you're not.

As for the good of our membership, my main concern has always been and continues to be the good of this site. Don't play the innocent contributing LOC member card either, because you don't do that any better. Your entire use of this site has been for your own purposes and when asked to pony up some cash to give back to it to ensure it will continue to be here, you refused, said it wasn't worth it and accused Matt of being dishonest with the membership about the goals of the gold member program, a program he, I and the rest of the site's administration worked hard to try and make worthwhile for our members. I on the other hand use my membership here to help fellow members and help to make this club as good as it can be. You have no position to ask Matthew McNally or anyone else here for anything.