Lexus Vs. Jaguar

[aportinga]

I'm looking to buy my wife a new car. Originally we were just going to replace her 1996 Lexus LS400 with a 1999. However recently we have been considering a move to the Jaguar S Type.

I have been reading on both and obviously they are both good cars - the Lexus obviously being better. Both of us like the Jag more so however and the price is a bit less - by about $2-$4k.

The only data I cannot find in any detail is a direct comparison of cost bewteen the two in terms of repairs. I know how expensive the Lexus happens to be.... huh my neighbors kid wants to buy our 96 when we sell it and I told him that if the car had any problems that he'd probably have to quit school and get a real job just to fix the thing.

Any Jag owners out there?

Thanks in advance.

[ronsadvice]

B) If you think Lexus is expensive to repair, wait until you make your first Jag repair! The 2K you think you are saving now, will go away later!

Guess I am biased re: Lexus but have had friends etc with sad stories to tell regarding Jag repairs.

If you buy Jag NEW then you are ok for a few years under Meg warranty. but used, you are on your own.

Just take my two cents for what they are worth....

Good Luck to you and your wife!

Ron

[MikeP]

I'm your man ;) In 2001, I bought a new 2002 Jaguar X-Type and throughout the 11 months of ownership, I had many problems. These problems included the need to replace both front lower control arms, the driveshaft and rear suspension components. To make matters worse, in order to convince the dealer that these were indeed common problems, I had to print out other owners' complaints from a Jaguar discussion group relating to those same problems. The problems got so bad, I had to call Jaguar Customer Relations. What a joke. After months of telephone calls with Jaguar, I met a representative at the dealer and wound up making a "deal" to trade the X-Type for an '03 S-Type V8. I lost about $18,000 on the X-Type trade and got the S-Type for dealer's invoice. Rotten deal, but I was anxious to get rid of the X-Type. For the first few months I had the S-Type, I really enjoyed it. I think it is one of the best looking cars available today. However, the problems started with the reverse parking system. I began to get false readings, so the service department changed one of the sensors and the control unit. Fewer false readings, but I still couldn't trust it. Then the transmission began to lurch when accelerating from a rolling stop. The transmission was recalled and a reflash was done. The lurch changed from when accelerating to when stopping. Then one day the car wouldn't start. Had to be towed to the dealer. The engine had flooded and the dealer took a week to correct the problem.

The S-Type also developed several rattles in the dash.

If you want to do more research on the S-Type, try www.Jagtalk.com. It's a great resource for Jaguars. It requires membership, but it's free. S-Types older than 2003 have had even more problems, particularly with the transmissions, window regulators, coolant overflow bottles and waterpumps.

I was really happy to trade my S-Type on an LS430.

Mike

[MikeP]

Also take a look here:

http://forums1.roadfly.org/jaguar/forums/stype/

Mike

[SRK]

You would buy a Jaguar over a Lexus? With all respect, give your head a shake. Jaguar has one of the worst reputations in the industry. Even the might of Ford has been unable to produce any meaningful improvement in their reliability.

[90LS400Lexus]

I have heard that they have extremely unreliable electrical systems- even the newer models. I have seen several on e-bay that have burned to a turn- even 98+ models. Also seems to be fuel leak problems. I cannot say for sure that this is causing the fires, but too many on there are toast. Coincidence? Not only Jaguars- there are more on there that are worse, such as the Porsche and Range Rovers.

Now, the bodies on these cars are a totally different story- they are built like tanks. My uncle had a 1985 Jaguar XJ-6. I drove it on several occasions- it had power, style, supurb ride and superior handling- it was 100% rattle and squeak free and you could tap on the exterior panels and it was like a tank. Too bad the electrical systems were so poor.

I would go for the LS400, or maybe even a 99+ Acura RL or Infiniti Q45.

[SKperformance]

I wish Lexus used some exterior styling of the good ol' english but the S tpye is just a lincon LS/volvo s60/xtype and maybe one other.

It is crap in everything but looks.

I drive tehm at work when i am bored ,real comfortable but i usually have to wlak around for a while to find a xkr or xjr that actually starts.

Funny enough i hardly ever see a Lexus wher i work as no one lets them go.

[SW03ES]

You would buy a Jaguar over a Lexus? With all respect, give your head a shake. Jaguar has one of the worst reputations in the industry. Even the might of Ford has been unable to produce any meaningful improvement in their reliability.

Actually thats not true at all. Jaguar has made literal leaps and bounds while under Ford's control. Jaguars of today are rated near the top of JD Powers IQS and dependability studies, beleive it or not. Its still not nearly as reliable as a Lexus with lots of little niggling problems. If you were buying a 1985 XJ V12 I'd tell you to be worried about electical systems etc but not a newer S Type.

Personally I would never choose an S Type over an LS. I drove the S Type when shopping for my ES and found it cramped with a lower quality interior that seemed to have a lot of cheap feeling Ford switchgear. Styling is very nice though. I MIGHT consider an XJ over an LS400, but never an S Type. Just different classes of cars.

[MikeP]

Jaguar is in deep financial trouble at this point. Sales in North America have been much lower than expected, in Europe, sales are increasing because of the X-Type wagon and new diesel engines in the X & S-Types. Production for the remaining part of '04 has been cut by 15,000 units and the Brown Lane plant will shut down production of cars. Heavy supplies of cars to Hertz and other rental car agencies have had a real negative impact on resale values.

Today's Jaguar is much more reliable than in the past. Ford has done a good job in the reliability area, but has done a terrible job in managing Jaguar from a financial, product development and customer support standpoint. Think about it. Ford bought Jaguar about 15 years ago, about the same time Lexus was introduced. Lexus has become a major player in the industry and has forced all other manufacturers to change the way they build, sell and service their cars. Jaguar, on the other hand, is hardly putting a dent in the overall sales of luxury cars. Lexus had zero history to rely on when it was introduced, while Jaguar has has an enviable history in racing and introducing innovative engineering. But to sell cars, Jaguar has to give rediculously high incentives just to move them off the lot. I've read that new '04 X-Types are selling for $21,000 with the dealer incentives Jaguar gives the dealers. Great for new buyers, but wait till it's time to sell it. It's worth nothing.

Another major problem is the dealer network. Based on my time on the Jaguar discussion groups, I've learned that some dealers are great. Many, however, are terrible. I had one of those. These dealers sometimes refuse to provide free loaners, will play ignorant to common problems and return your car with problems you didn't have before bringing it in for service. Jaguar Customer Relations is no better. Their representatives are very reluctant to disagree with a dealer, so if your dealer is not your advocate, you are screwed.

Jaguar does have great styling. I loved the looks of my S-Type, both inside and out. But when you start looking closely at the details, you begin to notice some very cheap materials or construction methods. When I look closely at my LS430, I continue to be amazed at the quality of things that are hidden or the added things that enhance the luxury car feeling.

I really hope Jaguar succeeds. Its history deserves better than Ford is giving its "present". When I owned my Jaguars, I had dreams about Toyota buying Jaguar. Lexus would do well to hire some of Jaguar's designers, as long as Lexus keeps their own engineers.

Mike

[SRK]

What Jaguar "deserved" was to go out of business. Ford must rue the day they bought the company thinking it would add "cachet" to their product line.

The fact the Jag has improved is misleading. They went from a laughable state of product reliability in the 70's and 80's to one that is now simply horrible. Anyone who buys one, deserves one.

Racing means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Ford won LeMans three years in a row. Great. Go buy a Tempo. Jag won LeMans before most of you were born. Great. Go buy an XJS. Or an XJ12. Or an XJR with an engine life expectancy of less than 30k miles.

Lexus has no need of anyone steeped in the Jaguar design or engineering tradition. Read David Halberstam's book "The Reckoning" and you will see why.

[SW03ES]

I would hardly call #2 in initial quality and #4 or 5 in 5 yr dependability horrible. Its clear that you despise Jaguar and my guess is thats making you less than objective.

[SRK]

Its clear that you despise Jaguar and my guess is thats making you less than objective.

You are right. I do not like Jaguar cars (except to drive ones owned by others), and I am less than objective about them. But the repair business is what I go by, and I have seen too many nice people abused by these cars.

[MikeP]

Even though I had my share of problems with my 2 Jaguars, I attribute most of the frustration to my service department than to the car itself. I also don't believe that today's (last 5 years) Jaguars have any more problems than current Mercedes Benz and especially BMW, maybe fewer.

Mike

[SKperformance]

When ever you feel like a hjag go rent one they are in rental fleets by the miles.

[MikeP]

I know. Every year they show up by the thousands on Jaguar dealers' used car lots. It does wonders for resale values.

Mike

[aportinga]

Thanks all - you have helped me made up my mind for sure..... We're gonna roll with a 98/99 LS come May if not sooner.

Hey - this means I can stay on as a member

[SW03ES]

You coulda stayed on as a member even with a Jag ;)

[SKperformance]

yah you would have still been quite welcome, but we would have poked fun at you for a bit. lol

But in the end you would have come back to a Lexus again as most always do especially after the (trying to think of the name for it)

steak.

Oh yah they call it salisbury steak.

The worst thing to call steak ever.

[JUSTICE]

I'm looking to buy my wife a new car. Originally we were just going to replace her 1996 Lexus LS400 with a 1999. However recently we have been considering a move to the Jaguar S Type.

I have been reading on both and obviously they are both good cars - the Lexus obviously being better. Both of us like the Jag more so however and the price is a bit less - by about $2-$4k.

The only data I cannot find in any detail is a direct comparison of cost bewteen the two in terms of repairs. I know how expensive the Lexus happens to be.... huh my neighbors kid wants to buy our 96 when we sell it and I told him that if the car had any problems that he'd probably have to quit school and get a real job just to fix the thing.

Any Jag owners out there?

Thanks in advance.

Having had a few jags in my day I must admit I will always love them ( However after owning the Lexus) I will only love the JAG from a distance. :D

I had an XJ6, XJ8 and XJR. You would think I would have stopped after the first one. They are nice to look at, but be warned if you want to own one. I would suggest that you become an organ donor because you will be selling your organs to keep the Jaguar on the road.

[python]

jaguar s-type=hyped up taurus

[amcdonal86]

I really wanted an XJ6 Vanden Plas.

[SW03ES]

jaguar s-type=hyped up taurus

Thats about as true as saying the LS is a hopped up Camry...

[pauljcl]

I'm looking to buy my wife a new car. Originally we were just going to replace her 1996 Lexus LS400 with a 1999. However recently we have been considering a move to the Jaguar S Type.

I have been reading on both and obviously they are both good cars - the Lexus obviously being better. Both of us like the Jag more so however and the price is a bit less - by about $2-$4k.

The only data I cannot find in any detail is a direct comparison of cost bewteen the two in terms of repairs. I know how expensive the Lexus happens to be.... huh my neighbors kid wants to buy our 96 when we sell it and I told him that if the car had any problems that he'd probably have to quit school and get a real job just to fix the thing.

Any Jag owners out there?

Thanks in advance.

I only know about three people who have owned about six S-types, one: three in succession, one: two in succession, and the third only one (really) used. None of them had any problems whatsoever, notwithstanding 75,000miles for four of the six.. The later S-types (2005 and +) are a little different and better thought out (modified), the earlier ones really wasteful in space etc.... I believ ethe (bad) reputation of the Jags is due to the pre- and early-Ford years, and the older models and the XJ (a friend has had three XJs and oen of them was a total disaster, smoking electrics (literally) and all). If you really like the S-type, thee is nothing like it. And you can get good used - not high mileage - ones for relatively little dollars. You'll have a problem on resale, though.

Good luck!