Suggestions To Pull Parents Over On A 90 Ls?

[TMaxxTim]

Hey, I've been doing a lot of browsing lately and I really like the LS 400 sedans. I'd like to have a 95-97 body style but they are just out of my price range. In my paper there is a $3900 LS 400 with 174k miles on it. Thats right in the price range and I know there are others around here for that price.

I'm coming from a 92 accord 4cyl, so I know anything is better than what I have. I have driven my uncle's 96 LS before, he has 188k on it and its had its problems but he does drive it ALL over the place and it is still in good condition.

I need to convince my parents that this is a better car than say a 96-99 Ford Taurus which is the other reasonable option. BTW, I'm 17 and would be putting about $3k of my own money into this.

Their biggest thing is the fact that if anything DOES go wrong, it will cost an arm an a leg to fix. Now I've fixed a lot of things on my Accord, and I would probably be doing most of the maintainance myself on this car, but that doesn't rule out big problems that I coulnd't fix myself.

Just using the car in the paper as an example, with 174k, its not that much less than the 186k on my accord, I know that it will last a lot longer than my accord will/would have, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to explain this to my parents other than just saying "Lexus is the best..."

I've read all the things I need to look for in an older Lexus, like checking for vibrations, bad shocks, leaky P/S pump, checking for timing belt intervals (I've read that the ls400 is a non-interference engine which is good because if it ever does break, I just put a new one on...no bent valves!)

Just anything else you can add that would help, or other suggestions to look for would be great. I hope to become a frequent visitor in this forum.

One question, do all LS's have moonroof's, is it standard or optional, they seem to be pretty popular but I just wanted to be sure.

[TMaxxTim]

Also, do All year LS's have keyless entry, or was that optional too?

[90LS400Lexus]

Also, do All year LS's have keyless entry, or was that optional too?

Hello and welcome to the boards. If I am correct, the remote entry was a option in 1990 only- all other years it was standard. My 90 has this option.

The 90 for $3900 you found sounds good if it is in good shape. I paid $3995 for my 1990 last year and it had 224K at the time, but it was a 1-owner car in excellent shape. Now I would say my car is still in very good shape- needing minor things and I would say it is worth $3500 now- even though KBB is still $3800 on my car and it now has nearly 232K.

Sounds like you have done your homework on these cars and you know what to check on them- which is good. Also be sure to check the A/C, instrument panel lighting, as well as the climate control LCD's. About the price of maintaining these cars- yes, it can be very expensive- even when little things go wrong. I knew this before I bought mine, because my aunt in NC also has a 1990 LS400 and my uncle warned me of high parts/labor costs before I bought it, but I did not heed the warnings and now I am getting to where I often wish I had of stuck with a Honda Accord- which I one car make I had before I bought this LS- it had 195K (1991 Accord) and it was still in excellent running conditions- they are great cars too. Starter replacement can be very expensive and time consuming on the LS400. Bushings can be expensive, as well as A/C repairs. My car needs a A/C evaporator (about $800 repair), front end bushings- about $400. I have actually decided to sell my car, because I do not want to put so much money in a 14 year old car with 232K miles. Now I am not saying that they are not good cars- they are one of the best built cars on the road- even the 1990-1994 models and many makes would not go 232K, like mine has and still have a perfect running engine (I have to occasionally look @ the tach at traffic lights to see if it is still running) and smooth transmission and still have ZERO leaks- all traits that my 90 has.

So, if you can do a lot of the work yourself, you should be OK- as that will save you a lot of money. Also, another good thing is that these cars rarely break down. One important thing to remember is to be sure that the car you buy has seen good care and not abused.

If you really want the LS400 (and who wouldn't? :) )- just tell your parents what good cars they are- not to mention that they are safe, well-built cars- perhaps this will convince them. :D

Good luck in your purchase.

BTW- I would steer clear of the Taurus- I had a 98 Taurus (as well as the Accord) before the Lexus and I had a lot of transmission problems- something else I was warned of about these cars. It had 248K however, but I have heard that low mile Taurus' also have had problems. If you buy a Taurus- just be sure the check the transmission and I have heard that the 3.0 V6, is much better (reliable) than the 3.8L V6. Mine was the 3.0L and was still in perfect running order.

Hope this was of some help.

[VBdenny]

The LS 400 is a great car. What kills you on these things is that when things break, they are extremely expense to fix. The engines and transmissions are fantastic but the A/C, and power steering units are troublesome. I have been driving mine without A/C for a year and they are HOT. They are still far better than ANY Ford Taurua which are junk. My brother had one (a 98) and the engine blew. He traded it for a 2001 which leaks transmission oil like a sieve, won't start sometimes because the key won't turn, has all kinds of electronic glitches, etc.

If you can put up with the little things, the LS400 is a great car. In my opinion, most people sell them because they get tired off the expense when things break. Even doing your own work the parts are rather hard to come by and still expensive. You won't find one in a junkyard either.

[TMaxxTim]

Alright, I'll take that into consideration. My dad thinks the taurus is a good car, he's had one early 90's one (company car), then leased a 96, then bought a 98, now has a 2002 escape. The escape is by far better than the others, but I don't think he remembers that he only had the cars until a little over 50k before he got another!!

If I do get this car, I am going to plan on getting a service manual because if I don't know whats wrong or how to fix it...I will probably be learning whats wrong and learning how to fix it!!

Accords are good cars, mine's a 92 and only cost $500, but it has its share of problems not worth fixing! Its also kinda loud when compared to newer cars, and its completely stock.

Hopefully I can get my parents to go look at this one this weekend.

BTW is the A/C Display turning black just a big annoyance problem, or are there functionality problems with it too?

[VBdenny]

The LCD on the A/C and clock goes black on all of them, a Lexus defect apparently. Mine is black except when it is hot. While the LS400 is a great car, for someone just starting driving, I would buy a Toyota. I bought my 19 year old daughter a 99 Corolla with a 5 speed for $6900 with 10,000 miles. It gets 32mpg in town and about 40 on the highway. It won't take you long to get sick of putting premium into the LS which does not get great milage.

[FreddT]

I've sent many posts to LOC regarding my LS400 referencing repair problems, etc. I've come to the conclusion that an older LS400 is a money time bomb waiting to happen-that it's fun to drive and looks great, but it's just a matter of time before it slams your wallet. The parts are stunningly expensive, and too many of the repairs are far beyond the weekend guy's ability. We know that all the repair places, upon seeing a Lexus, increase the costs exponentially. Lexus dealers, of course, are the modern day equivalent of John Dillinger entering a bank-"Give me ALL your money."

So I bought my neighbors 92 Chevy Truck. I won't register or drive it-except for maintenance reasons. In the meantime, I drive my pristine LS400. Not a thing wrong with it. I know that one day, hopefully not too soon, it will start to malfunction-power steering, ignition, and front end are the likely culprits.

And I will park the LS. And drive the old truck. It's kinda' like facing reality-If you buy an old car, buy one that everybody else owns. Sure, you look like Jed Clampitt, but you will still have some money in your pocket after repairs. And do the chicks really care about what you're driving? Nah, they have enough trouble parallel parking....

[90LS400Lexus]

Alright, I'll take that into consideration. My dad thinks the taurus is a good car, he's had one early 90's one (company car), then leased a 96, then bought a 98, now has a 2002 escape. The escape is by far better than the others, but I don't think he remembers that he only had the cars until a little over 50k before he got another!!

If I do get this car, I am going to plan on getting a service manual because if I don't know whats wrong or how to fix it...I will probably be learning whats wrong and learning how to fix it!!

Accords are good cars, mine's a 92 and only cost $500, but it has its share of problems not worth fixing! Its also kinda loud when compared to newer cars, and its completely stock.

Hopefully I can get my parents to go look at this one this weekend.

BTW is the A/C Display turning black just a big annoyance problem, or are there functionality problems with it too?

No, that A/C display will not affect the A/C, if the A/C itself is already in good working order. Mine is just starting to go dark in the mornings, but after about 10 minutes, it clears up. Guess I am lucky, since mine has lasted 14 years and 232K miles, because many do not last near that long, but my car has always been a southern USA car, and has not seen extreme cold, so that may be part of it.

I agree 100% with VBdenny. Most people sell these not because they are bad cars, but because of high parts cost. That is actually why I am selling mine soon.

Also agreed about the Taurus- mine had electrical glitches. Sometimes COLD air would blow out when the heater was on. Sometimes the signals would not work and I had a light out on the dash board (night time illumination). My car only made it to 248K I believe because it was a company car- with ALL highway miles, and it seen excellent service. If not for that- I doubt it would have 248K. As mentioned- engine was still excellent, but radiator pan had started to leak and tranny was shifting harshly. I would steer clear of ALL Ford Taurus, unless it was brand new and then I would sell it before it hit 50K. That is probably why your father has not had any trouble yet with them.

The Accords are nice- I agree. My 91 was a refined car and it had a lot of qualities. My car was quite, but power was nothing like the Lexus of course, as it only had a 2.2L I-4. MY car was quiet however and I had NO electrical problems, except there were times my radio would not work, because it was going bad. Other than that- it was 100%, even at 195K- quiet, rattle free and had a great, supple ride quality.

Another important note of interest- make sure the LS you are considering does NOT have air suspension option. They can cost upwards $1000 each to replace! $1000 x 4 = $4000.

If it has "height" button by the gear shifter- I would steer clear, because if these struts go bad, you are looking at big, big bucks to repair.

[TMaxxTim]

Well, I was thinking if I got one with low enough miles that it would last for at least awhile. My whole thing is I only really ahve about $4k-$5k to spend right now on a car. I'll have more later...but my accord will not make it to later, it already burns oil unlike anything else and theres a whole laundry list of problems.

I've been driving for a year and a half, have had the accord for 4 months, and I already know that I don't want a 4-cyl car ever again...never never never...while good on gas, they have no pickup whatsoever.

The ES 300 is another car I've looked at, but most that are $4k-$5.5k are not in the best condition.

I also like the SC's but they are again up there a little more in price.

[90LS400Lexus]

Well, I was thinking if I got one with low enough miles that it would last for at least awhile.  My whole thing is I only really ahve about $4k-$5k to spend right now on a car.  I'll have more later...but my accord will not make it to later, it already burns oil unlike anything else and theres a whole laundry list of problems.

I've been driving for a year and a half, have had the accord for 4 months, and I already know that I don't want a 4-cyl car ever again...never never never...while good on gas, they have no pickup whatsoever. 

The ES 300 is another car I've looked at, but most that are $4k-$5.5k are not in the best condition.

I also like the SC's but they are again up there a little more in price.

True- for $5K, you should be able to buy a fairly low mile 90-92 LS. If you opt for a ES300, you may be able to get one with even less miles for $4-5K. Have you considered the 92-94 Camry V6? It is basically the same car as the Lexus ES. Same chassis, as well as engine. I had a 93' Camry LE V6, with 212K and it was in perfect running order and it had plenty of power. When you get to the top of the line Camry XLE V6, it is more like the ES, especially with the leather interior options.

Probably not the kind of car you want- but a option for me is the Mercedes 300SD turbo diesel. For $4-5k, you should be able to buy an extremely nice, low 81-85 model. No, they are not nearly as powerful as a LS, but the drivetrain is bulletproof, but again- keep in mind, these also have very high parts costs, but the diesel engines are fairly simple on these cars, but the transmissions are very complex. You also have to like the older Mercedes styling to really appreciate these cars- they were well ahead of their time in the early 1980s. I have actually been in the market for a 1981-1985 300SD, but no luck yet.

[1990LS400]

I tend to agree with VBDenny except for the reason that people sell their older LS's. Both my next door neighbor and I bought early, he in late 89 and I in early 90, and we both kept them for over 13 years. We both kept our cars in top condition and drove similar miles per year. It didn't bother me at all that I spent about $4,500 in the final two years of ownership since it was a wonderful and comfortable car, looked and drove like new, and the repair costs were far less than I would spend on an annualized basis to buy and maintain a new car. What finally drove both of us to sell our old LS's was simply the wish to move on to something different and more modern - the repair costs were not an issue at all. He sold his LS to his brother. I sold my LS to a coworker and I get to see it almost every day in the company parking lot. A 90 LS is a great car but I would not recommend one for a 17 year old unless the 17 year old does not mind spending a couple of thousand per year on repairs and maintenance.

[95LS400Bob]

Having this 95 Lexus for all of 5 days and seeing what the parts cost and the availability, the suspension and other problems not so easy to fix, I would suggest a Toyota Camry for you. I beleive it would be more affordable and kinda a "Baby Lexus".

The Camry holds it's value and bought right could be had with a lot lower miles, better fuel mileage and cheaper repairs.

Then in a few years you may find a Lexus priced right and maybe the aftermarket will step up with lower priced repair parts and it will be more feasable to repair one of these cars.

Don't take that to mean I don't like the car I just bought. But I have the facilitys and have been a mechanic all my life. And I am not exactly young.

Just my opinion.

Oh yeah...I saw a 93 Lexus..no moonroof..first one I ever saw. So you could get one without a moonroof.

[90LS400Lexus]

Oh yeah...I saw a 93 Lexus..no moonroof..first one I ever saw. So you could get one without a moonroof.

I did not know that either. I thought it was only an option on the 1990-1992 models, but obviously other years as well. I know that leather interior was an option in 1990. Not sure how long it remained an option. My car has leather, but someone here, or on the "other" Lexus group has a 90' LS400, with cloth interior and NO moonroof- a "plain-jane" I guess you could say. I think those cars must have been the models with the $36,000 base price. My car stickered for $39,500 if I recall. It has leather, gold trim option, moonroof, remote entry. I think the $44,000 models were the ones with all of the above, including: air suspensions, CD player, premium sound system, traction control, heated seating, and memory seats. I remember reading somewhere where the 1990 LS400 price range new was $36000-$44000- which is why I mentioned those particular prices.

[VBdenny]

Hey, what great responses from all you. I know you don't want a 4 cyl but if you get one with a manual transmission, they are pretty good. I actually enjoy driving my daughters Corolla. Even with a 1.8 litre engine, it really has excellent acceleration. They really wind up. I have driven automatic ones and frankly, they suck.

Buy something that will give you good service, good milage, and dependability. Then when you are older and can afford to spend the money, buy the Lexus.

[90LS400Lexus]

Hey, what great responses from all you. I know you don't want a 4 cyl but if you get one with a manual transmission, they are pretty good. I actually enjoy driving my daughters Corolla. Even with a 1.8 litre engine, it really has excellent acceleration. They really wind up. I have driven automatic ones and frankly, they suck.

Buy something that will give you good service, good milage, and dependability. Then when you are older and can afford to spend the money, buy the Lexus.

Yes, those little Corollas are virtually bullet-proof. I like the 98-02 models. Sadly, the interior build quality/interior material quality has declined on the newest generation (2003-2005). I test drove a 2003 Corolla CE, with 10K miles last summer, before I bought the LS400. I was disappointed that the car had interior "pops" from the instrument panel, especially considering it was a Toyota with only 10K miles. Lots of hard plastic panels. Corollas of the late 80s thru 90s (1988-1997) had a lot of padded interior panels. The 98-02 Corollas seem to have a little more hard plastic on the dash board (I think the top is hard plastic, rather than padded - correct me if I am wrong) than the 88-97s, but it is in good taste and of high quality. The plastic on the 03+ looks and feels cheap. Another good thing about the 98 Corollas, they offer optional side airbags- something that was unheard of on other compact cars in 1998. There is a local 98 Corolla LE here for $3900. I was considering it- as I thought it would make a perfect daily driver.

[blake918]

It is basically the same car as the Lexus ES.  Same chassis, as well as engine.  I had a 93' Camry LE V6, with 212K and it was in perfect running order and it had plenty of power.  When you get to the top of the line Camry XLE V6, it is more like the ES, especially with the leather interior options.   

The engine, tranny, and chassis is about as far as the sharing goes save a control stalk or two inside. Approxamently 20% of the pieces are shared between Camry and ES. ;) I agree a Camry V6 would be a wonderful choice. Be sure that it's at least a '94 because that's when the aluminum headed 1MZ-FE made it out. The refreshed 95-96 looks stunning imo...probably the best looking Camry. The 3.0 in there is a snoozer b/n 0-3k rpms, but once you get it running, it's like a KW slams you from behind!

I too was a little disappointed in the new Corolla. My friend has an '04 that I've ridden in a few times. I think it's a great package, but when he was showing off the 'power,' I couldn't help but notice the engine buzzing below my feet. I was completely shocked to experience this in a Toyota. I think the interior looks incredible...a lot like the new Camry, but like '90 said, there's a lot of hard plastic.

I am also a seventeen, and I have a '95 LS. The parts will empty your bank account very, very quickly when they infrequently pop up, but it's not impossible to deal with financially if you have a job. Yeah, a service manual is a must because the stealership will lighten your wallet even for an oil change much less something serious; my car only goes to the dealer for serious things. The purchase of a 90-94 all comes down to can you handle the little things? Like the burnt climate LCD, flickering needles, it sounds like non working A/C is common thread for a few, a grinding antenna, intermittent 'trac' light, adding p/s fluid every x amount of miles, hearing a clunk every time you slam on the brakes or pull into the driveway, etc. Luckily, for '95 Lexus fixed a lot of those things on that list. The only thing I have to worry about is the irritating suspension clunk, and the stereo LCD used to be dead, but Sammy @ Mikado took care of that for me! The superb stereo easily drowns out the suspenion clunk. It sounds like there is a lot of bad things, huh? But with all the bad, comes one of the best sedans on the road even if it is 10 to 14 years old. The cabin is first rate; the V8 is scary silent and wonderfully powerful at the same time which is mated to a 4 speed that is nothing short of teriffic. And who could forget the beautiful, dual, chrome tipped exhaust that have be missing for the past 10 years!! B)

I also drive a '94 ES. It too is an excellent car! I find my 2 cars similar. The LS is like a bigger better ES. The LS just feels like the better, more expensive car it is. It's heft which brings a much smoother ride(If I could guess, I'd say the ES weighs about 2000 lbs! lol), quieter interior, more interior space-which is crutial to me because I'm 6'3, and V8 are the main things that seperate them in my opinion. The ES has the 3.0 V6 and tranny that is shared with the V6 Camry, so you will get a little break on the engine parts that you might need. The interior, body, suspension, and brakes are not shared, so you'll have to pay up for those pieces. I find the ES is much easier to work on than the LS too. Also, the first gen. ES300 doesn't have the extensive inherent list of flaws that the first gen LS400 has. Really the only common problems are flickering speedo needles, wind nosie from people that use the glass to slam the pilar-less doors shut, and the suspension clunk on a few cars. So with that in mind, if you really want a Lexus and you can fork up a little more $$ for an ES, you'll probably be better off in the long run! I've spent less than $500 in repairs on my ES in 20k miles, and I'm not even going to say exactly how much I've spent on the LS in 9k miles-already more than $1500, and I still need to get the suspension fixed too, but the LS drives like nothing else, so it's worth it to me! B)

[90LS400Lexus]

The engine, tranny, and chassis is about as far as the sharing goes save a control stalk or two inside. Approxamently 20% of the pieces are shared between Camry and ES. ;)

He is right- for some reason I always make it seem like the ES and Camry are extremely similar, but they are quite different. The guages for one are totally different. If I recall, the dash on the 92+ ES300, is similar to the LS400. However, the 1990-1991 ES250 is much more similar to the Camry than the 92+ ES300s are. If you look at the instrument panel on the 90-91 ES250- it is very similar to the 1987-1991 Camry's. Also- I think they share a few more parts. I read this somewhere on the internet on how much similar the 90-91 ES is to the Camry, than the 92+ ES is. Not to say that the 90-91 ES250 is not a good car- because they are excellent as well and probably fairly simple to work on. I have a 1990 Car & Driver magazine that has a road test of the 1990 ES250- when it was new- also there is an ad in there for the "THEN" new 1990 ES250 and LS400, as well as other 1990 C & D magazines with ads just for the ES250. They actually have the same door switches as the LS400, so some of the LS400s parts went into the 90-91 ES250. Actually, I think the 90-91 ES250s are neat little cars. They are quite boxy, especially when compared to the 92 ES. Do not see to many around. There are about 2 different ones I see often around here. One is gold and one is white. Both in like NEW conditions. You may be able to get an extremely nice, low mile 90-91 ES250 for $5000. Just another option for you to consider.

[TMaxxTim]

Thanks for all the suggestions/help. I think I'm going to go and look at the LS tomorrow, just to see what condition it might be...

I'm at a strict $4000-$5000 spending limit and really can't go over that which is my problem. I've been looking at older BMW 3, 5, and 7 series, all seem to be about the same price, but they don't seem to hold up as well as even the LS, and my guess is they are expensive to fix also.

I don't like the camry, because there are SO many on the road nowadays and the interior is well...dull and old looking to me.

I know you say don't be picky when you're young and getting a car, but if I have $4g to spend, I'd like to find something I'll really enjoy for the next couple years. I don't really like the ES250's, too boxy.

I wish I could find an older GS300, SC300/400 or ES for $4g!!! But it just doesn't seem to be realistic!! I'll just keep looking and hopefully come across a car I like...hopefully a lexus!

[95LS400Bob]

Sounds like your mind is really already made up. Congrat's for having the smarts to research the type of car you want and knowing it's weak points. Most people don't.

Now:

1. Buy a car with service records.

2. You already know what goes wrong with these cars pretty much. So find a car suspension work, power steering work and LED work has already been done.

3. Don't buy the first car you see.

4. If you cannot find a good one close by...there is always Trader On line, Cars.com and other ads you can screen. Also Ebay (One close enough to go look at and drive BEFORE bidding.)

5. MOST IMPORTANT: You are buying a car that somebody doesn't want anymore. Find out why they don't want it anymore.

School of hard knocks department:

The $4700 95 LS I bought will cost me over $7000 when I get it done. I'll do ever bit of labor myself and buy only the parts I need at the best possible price.

Yet if I were to advertise it to sell it, I'd get very few truly interested people because the car has 150,000 miles on it. Just the way it is. Miles (in the publics mind) is everything.

Mechanical objects wear out. No matter who makes your engine, pistons go up and down, rings wear, bearings and metal fatigue. The odds are always better with lower miles and proper service (records).

Good hunting. I covered 3 states to find what I wanted. :D

[TMaxxTim]

Good list, I searched autotrader.com and found a couple more cars to look at. Particulary an SC...They are in Nashville so I'm going to try and check all of em out tomorrow. Doubt they'll let me test one without a parent around but at least I can look and get the history on em. I'll probably bring my digicam and take some pics for comparison when I get home.

[SW03ES]

I know a lot of us have given you info that you don't want to hear, but thats just because we care ;)

Look at it this way, you have PLENTY of years left to drive a Lexus, or a BMW, or a Mercedes, or whatever you may want to own someday. Listen to what we're saying, especially the older and wiser of us like vb and 1990LS400. No question the LS is a fantastic car, probably the best big luxury sedan on the road. The older ones ride every bit as good as the newer ones and the styling has changed so modestly over the years most people think a 90 is a 2004. Thats pretty rare when it comes to cars. They're very safe and relatively inexpensive cars to insure.

I'm not a lot older than you, I'm 23. I own my own business and do very well especially for my age. I decided a couple years ago I wanted a Lexus. Basically what I wanted was something like my dad's old 98 LS400 which I loved. I looked at all sorts of cars and it eventually came down to a 2000 LS400 with 35,000 miles, or a brand new ES300. The main reason I didn't get the LS was the potential for repair costs, and I made close to $100,000 last year. Little things on this car, even newish ones can be VERY expensive, brakes, shocks and struts, maintenances. The 90k maintenance on an LS costs $1400 from Lexus. Thats MAINTENANCE providing nothing goes wrong. My dad traded his 98 at 150k, it was making regular $1500 service visits. I didn't want to deal with that crap.

Sure you can do that cheaper elsewhere and by doing it yourself, but I just didnt want to worry about all of that. The service prices on the 6 cyl Lexuses are MUCH MUCH lower, less than half from the dealer. I couldn't imagine having to maintain one of these things at 17 working part time and going to school. That would suck, big time.

I've been lucky enough to not really ever have to worry about money. I have high school friends though that bought semi-older BMWs and Lexuses etc, and they always worked their asses off to pay for something, struts, brakes, engine mounts, you name it. Thats a lot of work just to drive something because its a Lexus or a BMW.

I agree with everyone here, $5-6,000 can buy you a nice newer Toyota (I personally think 95-96 Camrys are very stylish) that isn't going to make you afraid to put it in for an oil change and have it come back $1500.

[VBdenny]

Also, I would seriously stay away from a BMW or MB. One of my friends in a BMW mechanice and let's just say he keeps very busy and makes a lot of money. Last time I talked to him he had a 6 month waiting list. I was surprized to hear that he makes most of his money from buying BMW's from people who are overwhelmed by the repair costs. He fixes them and resells them. Then he fixes them again. BMW's and Mercedes have just as high repair costs as Lexus, but the Lexus doesn't break nearly as often.

The Corolla's are kind of plastic looking inside, but when you fill it up for 15 bucks after driving 350 miles the plastic seems less important. I would try to look for a LE model. Toyota Corollas come in three models VE the cheapest, CE middle, and LE top model. One of the things I really dislike about the CE we have is that it doesn't have a tachometer. I think that is really stupid especially in a car with a stick

[SW03ES]

Agreed on all counts.

[93LSOwner]

Good list, I searched autotrader.com and found a couple more cars to look at.  Particulary an SC...They are in Nashville so I'm going to try and check all of em out tomorrow.

Have you checked cars.com?

[apsharp]

I have a 91 ls400 with 178k miles on it. I have owned since 67k. I travel for aliving and have owned about any car under the sun. The Lexus us safer, more powerful, and less problematic than any car I have ever owned. I plan on keeping until 275-300k. Watch out for the power steering assembly, brake rotors, and lcd wash out.