Rx330 Or Rx400h?

[Lexusfreak]

B)

[v_c@yahoo.com]

Lexus isn't looking for the "green" crowd with the 400h, they're looking to offer people more power and features while cashing in on the "hybrid" name which will bring Country Club noteriety (wow, Sally's got a hybrid etc)and will bring hybrid technology to the mainstream.

I agree with the "Country Club" wise-crack. Hybrids don't save money. Maybe they save gas.

Think about this: my RX330 reports an average of 24mpg. It will be driven about 15k miles per year. That's 625 gallons of gas. At $2/gal regular, it's about $1,250/yr for gas. Assuming you drive your car for 10years, that's about $12,500. So what if a hybrid will cut gas consumption to 50%. That's still $6,250 in gas saved. Now consider this: hybrids are going at a premium above asking. You've already blown the gas savings at that point. When it's time to replace the batteries, you're further into negative territory.

If money were not an object, I would buy the RX400h too. It's a cool car. But I still know I'm not saving money. If gas hits $5/gal within the next 10 years, then I'll concede to the 'saving gas' argument.

[RX400h]

Ah, but let's now look at the real world for the millions of us who have to put up with heavy traffic everyday. A vehicle that normally gets halfway decent gas milage on the highway (such as yours), gets disappointing (at best) milage in the city and during the daily stop and go commute. During these conditions, your 24 MPG becomes a paltry 15 MPG (Remember, heavy, stop and go driving gives you extremely-low milage, but is boosted a bit when the speeds increase to 40 or 50 MPH, as is common to many of us.

Now, at 15 MPG, we're talking about $1700 per year vs $850 for an RX400h. Now let's compare the RX400h MSRP to the RX330 MSRP. The reason why I'm doing this is because when the RX330 was first introduced, dealers were getting MSRP and were NOT dealing very often. The same holds true for almost any new model Lexus and Toyota when introduced, so I'm comparing apples to apples here. The RX400h (40 HP) will have more power and more features. Heck, the power alone is worth a bunch of money to me.

With an estimated $3000 higher MSRP over the RX330, the RX400h's superior gas milage will make up for the higher MSRP in less than 4 years. Add in far fewer trips to the gas station, more power, and more amenities, and you've got yourself a vehicle that is well worth the extra money you may pay upfront.

[SW03ES]

v_c's right, there's just no way. Right now a hybrid car will NOT save you money on gas, at least not to the point where thats a reason enough to buy one. The Prius sells for several reasons, one of them a invented belief that it saves on gas, but for the most part because its a "toy". Driving a Prius is not like driving a car, everything is electronic, readouts of exactly what the hybrid system is doing, etc. Prius owners have contests on who gets the best mileage (their form of a drag race?) its a game. Thats why I think Lexus is right on the money with this type of marketing. They can deliver the customer a higher performing vehicle that spares them their mileage woes, and TO BOOT they get to feel good about themselves, join the hyrbid fun gang and get to compare their gas mileage (the system computes mileage per 5 minutes). Lexus is re-inventing what high performance is here.

Maybe if you drove downtown every day of your life in city traffic, but if you do there's no reason to drive something like an RX anyways. Most of these 400h's will see suburban duty, just like the 330. Suburban duty is where the hybrid system is its least fuel efficient.

[RX400h]

...not in our case. My wife MUST have a vehicle that sits tall so she can see over much of the traffic and anticipate sudden braking and such. She also needs a minimum amount of room and excellent gas milage in the city. In facr, a brief look around you while creeping along in the morning or afternoon traffic jams will reveal many, many SUV drivers, most getting 10-15 MPG.

I require a potent vehicle, regaedless of room or height, so for us and a majority of big city commuters, the RX400h is a bargain. Let's face it - if you simply want the bottom-line cheapest mode of transportation, you'll get a Kia, not N RX330. However, if you want more power, decent room AND high fuel economy for everyday driving, the RX400h is the better choice.

[SW03ES]

Have you driven a Prius? The Prius sits up very tall, almost as high as the RX.

[RX400h]

Really? It sure doesn't look as tall! No, I have never driven one. We were #2 on the Highlander list until the manager eliminated the list recently. Our only hope for a hybrid in 2005 is the RX400H (We're # 15 on the list.), but hey, that's not a bad choice after all!

[BillT]

The following should help the discussion about relative heights;

All dimensions in inches

RX330

Height 66.1

Width 72.6

Length 186.2

Clearance 7.48 (4WD) 7.09 (FWD)

Prius

Height 58.1

Width 67.9

Length 175.0

Clearance 4.9

GS

Height 55.9

Width 70.9

Length 189.2

Clearance 5.3

In other words, comparing the RX330 to GS and Prius

The RX330 has about the same width and length as the GS but 10 more in heigth.

The RX330 has 8 heigth, 6 width, and 11 length more than the Prius.

The RX330 has 2 more clearance than the GS or Prius.

[RX400h]

That's what I thought! Thanks for the info.

SW,

How do explain those statistics????

[SW03ES]

Because they're not drive height its overall height. The RX doesn't have much more ground clearance than an ES. The seating position in the Prius is very upright and higher around the dashboard than in the RX. No doubt the RX has a higher seating position than the Prius, but its not THAT much higher. The RX has much more expendable headroom as the distance between the floor and the roof is greater, but the seating position isn't as much. I have a Prius and I always drive an RX330 as a loaner when my car is in for service. My ES is way low to ground in comparison to either the Prius or the RX.

I'm not saying the Prius is an option if you need an SUV, but I'm saying it might be worth looking at if all you do is commute in the city and you want a high seating position but not neccisarily most of the space.

You should drive a Prius though if only to experience the Hybrid drivetrain which takes some getting used to. The engine in the Prius isn't especially smooth so I can feel when it kicks off at a stoplight and I still feel like the car has stalled or something. The Lexus' engine will be smoother so maybe the tranition will be less obtrusive.

[RX400h]

Heh heh; I was just joking around with you. We actually thought about getting a Mazda 3, which also gets very good gas milage, even with an auto tranny. The van could then be used only when necessary. The Prius would be great, but is not available around here unless you're up high on any of the dealer's lists. Ideally, though, the best compromise for us is a powerful, yet thrifty and tall vehicle that is very quiet and has many amenities. The Highlander would've been a possibility until the list on which we were on top was eliminated. but we are still looking forward to driving the RX400h. Besides, I'd feel bad if after buying a 50K Corvette, we bought a 20K car for the wife! Now if I could find a Prius to test drive without having to spend half a day at the dealership, I would in a heartbeat - just to get an idea as to how a hybrid vehicle feels.

[SW03ES]

We looked at the Mazda 3 for my Fiance too.

MOST dealerships have a Prius tester and if you stop by during the day sometime you should be able to take it for a spin. Some dealers also allow you to make appointments to drive it.

[patt]

We test drove the Prius. I was satisfied with the way it performed and it was reasonably comfortable. The biggest problem was ground clearance. On vacation and trips we sometimes want to go down a dirt road. I'm not talking about going up mountains like some of the auto commercials, just a dirt road in fair condition with some rocks and ruts. I'd be worried about ripping something out with less than 5 inches of ground clearance.

My husband also found the foot room in the Rx330 or Highlander to be much more comfortable than the Prius.

Our commute is mostly suburban roads with lots of stop and go for traffic lights and a little bit of freeway so what we get most of the time is pretty close to the "city" mileage number on my current car. Suburban driving isn't necessarily like the highway numbers.

What we are expecting out of an RX400 is a good trade-off between fuel economy and performance. I don't expect the fuel economy to entirely offset the additional cost of the hybrid.

[denslexusgx470]

We looked at the Mazda 3 for my Fiance too.

MOST dealerships have a Prius tester and if you stop by during the day sometime you should be able to take it for a spin. Some dealers also allow you to make appointments to drive it.

APPOINTMENTS??? WOW, is it still a hot buy until now?? all i really care is that Hybrid will come to SUVs, YeaH!!!

[SW03ES]

Oh yeah, the waiting list for a Prius is up to 2 yrs long in some places.

[RX400h]

Last week when I stopped for gas, regular was $1.97/gallon for regular. Yesterday, it was $2.07 for regular. I think it's about time we stop buying these 13-17 MPG behemoths and start the upward trend of gas milage once again. Have you ever noticed that oil company profits never slip?

Hybrid vehicles are long overdue - hence, the long waiting lists for Toyotas.

[denslexusgx470]

Oh yeah, the waiting list for a Prius is up to 2 yrs long in some places.

WOW :o do u think it'll be the same thing with the rx400h???

[RX400h]

There's at least a one-year waiting list as we speak. After getting booted out of my #2 spot on the Highlander waiting list, I called around to find that the shortest list in this area is 50+. Luckily, we are #15 on the RX400h list. Dealers are telling me that if you are just signing up, you shouldn't expect to actually get one until 2006.

[denslexusgx470]

There's at least a one-year waiting list as we speak. After getting booted out of my #2 spot on the Highlander waiting list, I called around to find that the shortest list in this area is 50+. Luckily, we are #15 on the RX400h list. Dealers are telling me that if you are just signing up, you shouldn't expect to actually get one until 2006.

WOW! there's already a Highlander waiting list?? man those hybrids are a big hit! i wonder if there's a list for the future hybrid Gxs(eventually it will be on the rest of the lineup! lol) cuz if there is, imma go sign up for it! lol :D

[RAID10]

Lexus isn't looking for the "green" crowd with the 400h, they're looking to offer people more power and features while cashing in on the "hybrid" name which will bring Country Club noteriety (wow, Sally's got a hybrid etc)and will bring hybrid technology to the mainstream.

I agree with the "Country Club" wise-crack. Hybrids don't save money. Maybe they save gas.

Think about this: my RX330 reports an average of 24mpg. It will be driven about 15k miles per year. That's 625 gallons of gas. At $2/gal regular, it's about $1,250/yr for gas. Assuming you drive your car for 10years, that's about $12,500. So what if a hybrid will cut gas consumption to 50%. That's still $6,250 in gas saved. Now consider this: hybrids are going at a premium above asking. You've already blown the gas savings at that point. When it's time to replace the batteries, you're further into negative territory.

If money were not an object, I would buy the RX400h too. It's a cool car. But I still know I'm not saving money. If gas hits $5/gal within the next 10 years, then I'll concede to the 'saving gas' argument.

I want the 400h so I can laugh every time I am sitting in slow bumper to bumper traffic with my engine off and my electric motors hummin.

[denslexusgx470]

Lexus isn't looking for the "green" crowd with the 400h, they're looking to offer people more power and features while cashing in on the "hybrid" name which will bring Country Club noteriety (wow, Sally's got a hybrid etc)and will bring hybrid technology to the mainstream.

I agree with the "Country Club" wise-crack. Hybrids don't save money. Maybe they save gas.

Think about this: my RX330 reports an average of 24mpg. It will be driven about 15k miles per year. That's 625 gallons of gas. At $2/gal regular, it's about $1,250/yr for gas. Assuming you drive your car for 10years, that's about $12,500. So what if a hybrid will cut gas consumption to 50%. That's still $6,250 in gas saved. Now consider this: hybrids are going at a premium above asking. You've already blown the gas savings at that point. When it's time to replace the batteries, you're further into negative territory.

If money were not an object, I would buy the RX400h too. It's a cool car. But I still know I'm not saving money. If gas hits $5/gal within the next 10 years, then I'll concede to the 'saving gas' argument.

I want the 400h so I can laugh every time I am sitting in slow bumper to bumper traffic with my engine off and my electric motors hummin.

man, everytime i read this thread, I can't wait for those hybrids to go on the bigger suvs! lol ;)

[RX400h]

The statement that hybrids are going above asking is simply not true, at least in San Diego county. We have at least three Lexus dealers in the area and not ONE of them are asking above MSRP. In fact, the BMW dealerships don't ask above MSRP either, since doing this is sure to alienate customers.

Yes, RX330s are being discounted heavily, but even if the RX400h were not a hybrid vehicle and simply had an extra 40 HP and some added features, it would still drive the demand for 330s down enough to warrant big discounts.

[denslexusgx470]

The statement that hybrids are going above asking is simply not true, at least in San Diego county. We have at least three Lexus dealers in the area and not ONE of them are asking above MSRP. In fact, the BMW dealerships don't ask above MSRP either, since doing this is sure to alienate customers.

Yes, RX330s are being discounted heavily, but even if the RX400h were not a hybrid vehicle and simply had an extra 40 HP and some added features, it would still drive the demand for 330s down enough to warrant big discounts.

very true, i'm that kind of guy that if there's gonna be more power and/or more features in the upcoming model, i'd wait, especially if it's only a few months away. ;)

[SW03ES]

The statement that hybrids are going above asking is simply not true, at least in San Diego county. We have at least three Lexus dealers in the area and not ONE of them are asking above MSRP. In fact, the BMW dealerships don't ask above MSRP either, since doing this is sure to alienate customers.

Yes, RX330s are being discounted heavily, but even if the RX400h were not a hybrid vehicle and simply had an extra 40 HP and some added features, it would still drive the demand for 330s down enough to warrant big discounts.

Lexus dealers cannot ask more than MSRP its part of Lexus' customer service promise. Asking for a markup is underhanded for sure, and I would never do business with a dealer that would do that.

HOWEVER Toyota dealers are not bound by the same principle, and Priuses are selling many places for $1-10,000 markups especially as cars get more scarce during the transition to 2005. This may not be the case in CA but that wouldn't surprise me as both Toyota and lexus have looser allocation limits out there. The wait in DC for a Prisu is 1.5-2 years now and the dealer we bought ours from in WV for sticker after waiting 2 weeks (got lucky) is now asking 5k above sticker. Dealerships all over the country are cancelling their lists and selling each car to the highest bidder when it arrives. I heard of one guy spending $38,000 on a $26,000 Prius.

SO its unlikely that you would see markups on the RX400h but you MAY on the Highlander. Toyota has some of the worst customer service in the industry (which shocks me because Lexus' is so good) so if I were you I would buy a 400h.

In fact I am SO dissapointed in Toyota and their dealer network over how they've handled the Prius demand and how they've treated us about a CD changer recall (apparently all these units fail and it took 5 months and 3 tries to get this repaired, tech smoked in the car etc, refused to give loaner, tried 3 dealers and they're all the same) that I don't know if I would ever buy a Toyota product again, a Lexus sure because its like night and day the difference in customer treatment.

[RX400h]

Ah, THAT explains why the local Toyota dealership dissolved the Highlander waiting list recently. We're looking forward to test-driving the 400h when it arrives. Thanks for your input.

I had to chuckle yesterday: While waiting for a loaner vehicle (the Corvette needs a differential seal replacement which is covered under the extended warranty), I was asked if I preferred a car or a truck. I replied that it really doesn't matter - "I'll take whatever you've got." To my surprise, the woman going over the paperwork added " Make sure you fill the tank with gas; otherwise it WILL cost you more if we have to do it."

Geez, if I knew they were going to charge me for gas, I'd have taken the Impala!!!