SW03ES

First off, none of the information on that site is valid, they provide links to sources that don't work, and they do the dividing up of the accidents between gender themselves, the NHTSA DOES NOT DO THAT. Their data is in whole, or by age group. I can't find anything broken down by gender.

Yeah, I read that above.

This crap is laughable: "If only men were allowed to drive on our streets and highways, and if they drove all the miles currently driven by both men and women, there would be 49% fewer traffic accidents. " YEAH, THERE WOULD BE 50% LESS DRIVERS?!?!?!?!?! These people are a peice of work.

Oh shoot me, thats BIASED information! Find information from a GOVERNMENT agency thats not out to blast women back from the stoneage. That organization has an AGENDA, and that AGENDA is to discredit women as worthy citizens. How the hell do you expect anyone to take data from them seriously. Come on! I wish I'd never posted that stupid site.

The article isn't written for people under 25 at all, the statement says "Men have more accidents than women" Not, young men. They mention that young men may pay significantly more because its more of a concern over a greater disparity. You say that some states prohibit underwriting based on gender because of "new data", I say its more likely a fairness issue. Again, you say that "you'd bet" statistics show this, this and this, but you've shown me no statistics. I've provided much more evidence than you have, all we have from you is your personal experience, which isn't even valid. You keep saying there are less women drivers on the road, but we've seen no evidence from you to that effect. Again, your personal experience isn't valid because you haven't lived or driven everywhere on earth. Here I see a balance of men and women, maybe even MORE WOMEN, but again thats not valid either because its here, not everywhere. All I've been doing is researching information to post here and have you shoot all to hell because of your limited, statistically insignificant experience telling you otherwise. I apologize if I sound heated, but it is somewhat frustrating. How about you try and find some information also?

LOL! Having a senior moment trying to remember the term "senior moment"? LOL! :D

Time to check out www.dentwizard.com

Here's a quote from that site: "Gender and Age. Statistically, males still have more accidents than females. For that reason, young men may tend to pay more for insurance than young women. (A small number of states have prohibited insurers from using gender as a factor in underwriting.) Insurers also have statistics that show a higher number of claims for some age groups than for others."

Here's another link to the underwriting process, stating gender as an effect on risk that is not in the control of the applicant: http://www.aldoi.org/Prop_broch_auto_under.htm

Also ask your parents about the way the policy is written up. It could have your mother as a part time driver and your father as the primary driver on the policy. Nope they're both primary drivers and my mother's car has a higher claim rate than my father's LS400. His insurance is STILL more. My fiance and I are each 50% drivers of the Lexus, mine is STILL more.

A breif explanation of the insurance underwriting process: http://www.aburiedheart.com/auto_insurance_claims.htm Keep in mind that if s*x didnt matter, they wouldn't ask.

I'll call my insurance agent on Monday. My parents are similar in age, my dad is 61, my mom is 56, they both have clean driving records. My dad pays twice what my mom pays because he's a man. My fiance and I both have clean records, I pay twice what she pays. I'll refine my search to insurance claims.

But see, what statistics are you using because there are none out there divided by s*x. Your limited experience doesn't provide a large enough sample to be a true representation of the population, so any "statistic" that you compute from that is automatically a total farse because the sample is not a true representation of the population in question. This is Freshman year Statistics for Social Sciences. I ask you this, if women cause more accidents, which causes more insurance claims, why do men on average pay 25%-50% more in insurance premiums than women? Its the same reason that teenagers pay 75% more than adults, because they cause more accidents. The person who causes more accidents pays more in insurance, thats how it works. So if women cause more accidents, why do they pay less? A 20 year old woman pays less than a 50 year old man, why?

Then there's the whole bit about women paying much less for auto insurance than men. If insurance companies had more claims from women, then it would be the opposite trust me... I can't find good statistics broken down by s*x, only by age. I'll keep looking, but anything I find in that department is going to be useless because the NHTSA and the NSA don't break their released data down that way. I'd have to get info from insurance claims.

I found some stats, but they're not great and again from some christian cooalition: "Percentage of American women who slow to a stop at a yellow light? 30% Percentage of men who do? 9%" "Men are 250% more likely to die by car accident than women are." Still lookin ;)

You're going to use these !Removed! women beater's statistics? ROFLMAO. I was just talking with my fiance about that very point, the information that THEY THEMSELVES give for that statement proves THE OPPOSITE! "33,696 men drivers and 20,156 women drivers were involved in the traffic fatalities of 41,967 American citizens in 1997. 28,538 of these fatalities were men." This shows that there are MORE accidents involving men! See my post above, I just included this link because I found it entertaining, not as evidence about this debate. I'm still looking for some UNBIASED statistics but they're hard to find, the NHTSA released the statistics for last year, but they dont break them down by demographics. You're getting there, but not quite. You still have never met MOST women (Thats 51% of all the women on earth), the MOST you can say is "No women I've met can drive", otherwise your statement means nothing because you don't have the experience to back it up.

Check out this website I found while searching for accident rates. http://christianparty.net/discmen.htm It'll show you what men's fear of women can do to distort statistics. They contradict themselves all over the place, condemn "statistic tricks" used to "aid women" and then turn right around and use the same on themselves. Hilariously pathetic people LOL. They'll spout one statistic and then make 10 statements with no proof like "Men make up 60% of the workforce (a statistic that is true), work harder and are more qualified (Cannot be proven in any way LOL) I'm not saying you're one of these people Todd, I just found this site enormously entertaining given my background lol. Just thought I'd share. These guys say that women drivers have a much higher accident rate, and then they give the numbers and its just the opposite. I'll keep looking for better unbiased info ;)

LOL, just because there aren't a lot of women race car drivers doesn't mean they can't drive. Racing is a very male dominated sport, with a fan base that is very traditional, that means women aren't accepted as readily. Give it some time. There are more men car salesmen, does that mean women can't sell cars? I bought my car from a woman and she was one of the best salespeople I've ever seen, and I employ salespeople. She was kind and friendly, was interested in what I wanted, when it came time to make a deal she was $150 higher than another guy, and she sent me packin, she said she knew I'd be back. When the guy botched up my order, I sure enough was. She went ahead and ordered my car for me and everything, always knowing I'd be back. I own my own marketing business, but I went to school to be a psychologist and I just find it really fascinating the way people always attribute broadly on an entire group from their limited experiences with the few. There is no physical or psychological reason why women are worse drivers than men. In fact, quite the opposite because women succomb to anger differently then men do. Women have better eyesight, better concentration, and better problem solving skills. These traits are inherant to the sexes. Driving isn't something that you're just good at or you're not, its a skill that is learned through instruction and repitition. Its not an inborn trait. So there is literally no epirical argument for the posiution "women can't drive", no evidence to support it at all. I respect you too Todd, nothing wrong with a civil debate ;)

It'll fit, but the install is very involved and requires a lot of custom wiring. The nav should consist of the: -Head unit -Hard Drive -Antenna -Wiring harness It also has a vehicle maintenance deal and a trip computer. LOTS of wiring, I think it was estimated at 24 hours of labor. Its been done though.

Makes my fiance very jealous LOL.

Just because you see nice cars going through those places doesn't mean that they're safe on the finish. Most people who drive nice cars don't care about them. I'd bet you any amount of money that if I looked at your car, I could find: 1. Swirling from the cloth flaps. The worst part about these are that they're usually filthy. Most carwashes clean them once a week, so all the dirt from all the other cars is being drug around your finish. 2. Swirling from the soap. The soap these places use is actually a powder, so that means its not 100% dissolved, and part of what the filthy cloths are dragging around is still very abrasive powder. 3. Swirling from dirty water. The water is recycled, ever wonder why carwashes can continue to operate during water restrictions? Because they reuse the same water over and over again. Meaning that the car is being blasted with water that has particulates of dirt in it, almost like sandblasting pitting the paint. 4. Removal of all wax and stripping of oils from the finish by very harsh chemicals. Thats how carwashes clean, the chemicals literally eat the dirt. It also eats any wax on the surface, and no the wax they spray doesn't stay on, it rinses off, waste of money. 5. Swirling from when the rag boys dry the car. They literally use polyester shop rags that get used on everything, dropped on the ground etc. The car also isnt 100% clean when it comes out, and they rub around any remaining dirt. 6. Rim damage from rotating tire brushes and the rails the car rolls on. These brushes have to clean the tires of trucks, SUVs, and cars so they have to be able to scrub the tall tires, so something like a Lexus with lower profile tires, so the spinning brushes scrape the hell out of the rims. Not so noticeable on yours because your rims are painted, but the machined and chrome wheels get beyond destroyed. Yours do too you just can't see it. Not to mention the fact that some guy has to drive my Lexus onto, and off of the conveyor, and I've seen cars bump each other before. Their owners don't care. Now that may be good enough for your Lexus, but not for mine especially when the detailer down the road only charges $5 more to do a quality, handwash with a sheepskin mitt and dry with microfiber towels. Give your car to me, pull it into my garage with my florescent shop lights and you'll be shocked by how terrible it looks. Dont trust what other people say, people are stupid. Any car thats clean will get oohhs and ahhs because their cars are filthy and haven't been washed in months or years. DONT take your car to an automatic car wash if you really care about its appearance. Pay the little extra to let a pro wash it, or learn how to wash it properly yourself and save a ton of money. There is a very specific way to wash a car without damaging the finish and preserving the wax layer, carwash bays don't do it. A touchfree wash is okay, better than a bay because there's no cloth, but still uses dirty water and powdered soap.

Actually the numbers are fairly even, there aren't more men on the road daily. Just because a woman is a housewife doesn't mean she doesn't drive. In fact, she drives more. Its fine to say that you've encountered women who can't drive, but its not fair to say that women in general can't drive. Have you met every woman on earth? You can't have because I know women that can drive circles around all of us myself included.

Best thing is the power plant. They showed film of the plant with not just smoke, but hot flames shooting out of the stacks, then Bloomberg says "There was no fire, smoke coming from the stacks when the boilers are off is normal" BS! We SAW the flames! After that, everyone said they were mistaken like good puppets and the film of the flaming plant was never shown again. Something is very wrong I agree.

My experience tells me that: 1. BMW is always going to be a better drivers car, always going to have better handling and a more neutral powertrain. 2. BMW is always going to be more prestigious and elitest because of their desire to build low sales volume specialty vehicles like the M line, manual transmissions and the V12 7 series. Toyota has never been interested in this. 3. Lexus is always going to be more affordable. 4. Lexus is always going to be more reliable and have lower maintenance. 5. Lexus is always going to be smoother and more luxurious. It just depends on what is important to you.

Sounds exactly like the throttle by wire doesn't it. I'm not sure whether the 99 has it...