landar

Well first of all, welcome to the forum, "Proud" From your description, it sounds like your car will not crank over. I hope that is a correct assumption. Given that, it is very likely that you hear a single "click" when turning the key to the start position. If you do a search, and I highly recommend that you learn how to use the search feature on this site, you will find a ton of situations just like yours. It could be many things but we have to nail your symptoms first. It is very difficult to diagnose issues when you are standing right next to the vehicle, let alone over the internet. Your issue is likely to be the starter solenoid (which is a big job). However, that is strictly speculation on my part until we have more input on your symptoms. So, any clicks when you turn the key?

You got me. I just have this fetish for looking at damaged LS's. <_<

Any pics?

I was also thinking that if the cat could be cleaned, would there not be a lot more garages that could do a professional job of it? Yet I never hear of that. The general consensus of mechanics is that you just install a new one. Not their money. I wonder also if the use of lower octane gas would cause a tug-of-war with fuel mixture between a failing pre-cat sensor and retarded timing. Guess it would depend upon engine loads too. I have heard Lexus mechanics say that non-OEM converters will not last very long if indeed they work at all. The cost probably depends a great deal upon what kind and thickness of the precious metal coated onto the ceramic honeycomb. I would get back on the higher octane fuel and hope that the other cat does not go soon and that the replacement holds up for a reasonable amount of time. Good learning experience though. I have to say, I think you are a Guru of sorts. You sure are a curious learner and tenaciously dig into the details. And as a result, we all benefit.

Well, if cleaning is voodoo then yes. It does make a certain amount of sense but does presume the cat does not work because it is simply dirty. It might be failing for other reasons. However, I think it is worth a shot (cleaning that is). Now you mention that perhaps the O2 sensor partially failed and that may have contributed to the cat failure. Yet you do not think that anything was wrong with the combustion mixture because mileage had not suffered. I have to ask, how would a failing O2 sensor contribute to cat failure if not via fuel mixture? Is there another variable in the mix that I am missing? BTW, you are now a "Guru" member curiousB. Congrats!

That graph of bank 1 vs 2 implies that something unusual is going on ahead of the converter. If the first sensor is bad or marginal then that could explain it. Or perhaps your combustion is compromised somehow. I think I accidentally deleted my post suggesting new spark plugs. You are coming due for new ones so it would not be a bad idea to change them if you have not already done so. I am surprised though as 100k on cats is not the norm. At least not from what I have heard. More in the 150-200k range.

There is also some talk on various sites about consistently using a fuel octane lower than what is recommended for the vehicle. There is mention of the timing being retarded by the computer resulting in a richer fuel air mixture and premature fouling of the cats. Some poo-poo the notion, others say it clearly shortens the life. Then of course, theres the "snake oil" route :whistles: http://www.amazon.com/Cataclean-Engine-Catalytic-Converter-Treatment/dp/B002BVXM92

Sounds like a good, methodical plan, curiousB. Keep us informed as to what you find.

Nuff said.

I realize that you may not like this advice so take it with a grain of salt... would you try a couple of tanks of premium fuel from a top tier supplier and see if you notice any difference?

Yes, the cam(s) can snap-roll when you take the belt off or try to maneuver them when you put the new belt on. They only roll maybe 10-15 degrees so you can put them right back with a socket on the cam bolt. You will, however, be fighting the spring tension. But you can go "backwards" to get the cam to the original position. I would not think you should try to rotate the cam in any one direction a complete revolution. That would surely make the valves on that bank contact the pistons. The very reason for setting the crankshaft at TDC+50 is to allow for a little extra clearance between valves/pistons on the VVT engines. No cam locks required.

If you rotated it CW by "x" degrees, you should be able to rotate it CCW by "x" degrees and get it back close to where it needs to be. The crank is at TDC+50 to give you the most clearance between valve and pistons. IOW, its a bit of wiggle room while putting on the new belt and to keep from damaging the valves if(more likely when) the cam snap-rolls due to spring pressure. How far, in degrees, do you estimate that you accidentally rotated the cam? You do realize that the cam will snap-roll? You may only be fighting the spring pressure to return it to original position, which is fine. Take a look at this thread. Should be close -> http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61372&st=0&p=394040&hl=how_to&fromsearch=1entry394040

Just rotate the cam back in the opposite direction from where you first rotated it until you get back to the timing marks. Do not force it if you hear a metallic sound (like hitting valve(s)).

I have seen similar strange behavior when the battery or alt are on the way out.

If you have two mechanics telling you the coolant hoses are on the way out, then I would pay attention. If you feel competent to inspect and access the hose condition, you can decide. If not, go with the mechanics recommendation. These OEM hoses are very durable so if they do not appear rotted or cracked they are probably ok. Be aware that you cannot always tell what is going on inside the hose just by examining the outside. IMO, it would not be unreasonable to replace them after 16 years. The serpentine belt is a very easy item to replace yourself.

Congrats and Happy Birthday! 77 years young. Looks like another white one...thats one of my favorite colors for the LS. Don't want to be pushy but how about some details? Mileage, condition and how in the world do you keep finding these deals?

Any intermittent electrical connection can be working one moment and dead the next. That is the very essence of and difficulty of troubleshooting intermittent issues. The next time your car acts up, trying putting the shifter in the Neutral position or push in on the knob while in Park when you are turning the key to see if you notice any changes. It is pretty simple to do. Yes, the starter is in an inconvenient place for replacement but the location makes sense from a design standpoint given all other constraints. It would have made a lot of sense for Lexus to use a starter designed for a remote solenoid and to locate the solenoid in a more accessible place such as the firewall.

Yeah, ditto what Billy said. You could probably raise the front wheels off of the ground and tug up/down, right/left on your left wheel and get lots of play from what you are saying. At 324k miles you are probably overdue for several front-end components. Get a good alignment shop to do a triage. Then plan your next move.

If you do not hear any "click" whatsoever, then it is likely your ignition switch that is getting worn. Usually, if the starter is bad, you will get a single, rather distinctive "click" when you turn the key to the start position. The starter is located under the intake manifold and is fairly difficult to access. Not your "typical" starter replacement and takes about 8 hours for someone who is reasonably seasoned at DIY. First, eliminate all of the possibilities before going after the starter itself. Be very astute and careful in your observations and you should be able to nail this one down thus saving yourself a bunch of guesswork.

Now boys..... be nice! Considering the original post is from Feb., the OP probably has resolved the issue by now and we just await the results... and death, of course. And to skymasteres, the others are right about attacking this problem by isolating between spark and fuel. Try spraying the starter fluid first but easy does it and be careful. Highly flammable you know. If the engine seems to gain life, even for a brief moment, then you know you have a fuel delivery issue. Else, start looking at the ignition system.

Well said, Paul.

Both have a timing belt service due. Or very soon. So factor that into the cost of ownership. I would look closely at the maintenance records, overall condition and go with the one that has been more thoroughly maintained. If equal, I would go with the '02 as it is lower priced and you do not plan to keep it very long. Don't just look at monthly payments.

Agreed. And is the 2000 susceptible to a leaky power steering unit as are the earlier models?

These things can happen to any car.. even a Lexus. It is up to the buyer to perform "due diligence" before a purchase. Including identifying rust areas. The original warranty is for rust-through, meaning a hole. You seem to have surface rust which is not covered. I know, that seems to be spitting hairs but thats how car companies keep from paying for all but the worst of rust conditions. Unless it is a CPO you probably have little recourse other than trying to goad the dealer into some sort of settlement. I am curious as to where the car spent it first 100k miles? Salty environment, I gather.

My advice would be to post this on the ES300 forum -> http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showforum=86