jainla

I agree. They styling on that generation was a major step forward from the bank-vault styling of the previous car; but even at the LA Auto show that year everybody in the MB owners lounge was commenting on how the overall build quality and materials did not seem as nice as the previous car. I heard someone say MB seemed to be spending more money on electronics and less on materials and assembly. If you want to feel what a MB USED to feel like get inside the cockpit of a G500. That's the way they used to make 'em. The new S550 is a step back towards that direction but it's IMHO still not as nice as a W140 (92-99) or W126 (81-91) S as far as interior fitments and overall quality. The LS of same era was maybe not as feature rich (until '01) but still superior in overall quality and reliability. They are just built better.

The RSES in the LS460L seems to be integrated with the existing stereo system; so I'm not sure if the dealer can add it or not. My dealer was offering aftermarket conversions with 2 screens in the headrests for the LS430 when they were selling it so you might want to go that route. Interestingly the LS460L in Europe is available with the 5 seat package and RSES; as is the LS600HL hybrid model here in the US; so it's possible for them to install it; at least at the factory. I'd double check with your dealer; maybe they will offer that option here on the LS at some point?

That's good news DobieG. Yes it's irritating to hear such noises when the car is so quiet. I bet the product and the moisture from the wash solved your problem. Re: the remaining noise you also have to get the seals away from the window; on the sides of the door and the bottom as well. Now that I think about it the sound is probably the two parts of rubber rubbing against each other; but it also could be the doorframe. Whatever; it works. Usually I just get a couple of paper towels and just SOAK them with the Sonus; then I apply to both the door seal and the integrated rubber/weatherstripping that's between the door and the window (see attached pic). I've found that spraying directly on the parts means you get Sonus all over everything; the seats, the door etc. I'm wondering if the window close forces the doorframe into a more concave position so the pressure against the door opening is increased? Maybe that's why the sound gets worse? See attached picture for how I do it...I started to hear the creaking yesterday so it might be time for me to do it again....

I had a very similar problem the first winter I had my LS. I mentioned it to the dealer and he confirmed that the door rubber seals can sometimes dry out and rub against the metal; causing the creaking noise when the body flexes over bumps and the doors and body move against each other. The problem seems to appear more quickly if you use an automated car wash vs. washing the car yourself; as the machine uses a lot more soap at higher pressure. Also I've usually noticed the problem appears when the ambient temperature falls below 70 degrees (this probably makes the rubber a little stiffer?). I hit the door and window seals with a blast of Sonus Total Eclipse and voila, problem solved. I'm sure the Aerospace 303 or any other product would work fine; I'm not sure I'd use silicone as i think it tends to dry out rubber and plastic over time. Don't be afraid to use ALOT of whatever; you may have to apply twice if they are really dry. I seem to have to do it about once every 8 weeks; depending on how hot it is an how much I drive the car. Make sure you get not only the top part but also the bottom part around the door edge; you'll be surprised how dirty these things get! Also while you're doing it get the sunroof seal as well; it seems to help the wind noise that I sometimes get at high speed. Sonus also makes a gel that supposed to be for rubber trim and other bits; I"m thinking about trying it to see if it lasts longer.

The rear AC has to be running and the sliding door (should be on the top) has to be open (to allow the cold air in there). It takes a while to cool off the contents. I think it's included as one of the rear seat upgrade packages; you may need the 4 zone climate control to get it.

LOL that is a very nice piece of product placement. I saw my first one 3 days ago driving between Madison and Fifth on 73rd st. in NYC. They must just be arriving for delivery.

Yup the ceramiclear paint has nanoparticles in the clearcoat that bond during the curing process. I've seen it in the shows and on the road and it looks remarkable. There is also a 'liquid metal' finish that they are putting on special edition CL's that's amazing; i saw it at the MB booth at fashion week this year and it's really really cool.

I would prefer mimic more than copycat but lately Japan has come up with some truly innovative products; the safety features in the LS460 have won all kinds of awards. But you have to admire the durability and reliability of the cars; especially considering all the complicated technology they contain. And i will say every time I crank my 26 year old Mercedes diesel engine (which still starts on the first crank than you very much) that yes; they were completely over engineered back in the day. They seem to be returning to that modus operandi. That is Lexus' ulitmate contribution; it made every other car better. I bet, that's a hell of an engine under there. It's almost not fair that they also drop it into the E550. I was also impressed that the more you push the S550 the smaller it feels. I wish I'd driven an ABC model. Yes it's bad. What's even worse is that Ford and GM build really good cars in Europe; but they won't sell them here because they are too expensive to make in larger numbers. Bean counters in charge yet again. Yup nice work if you can get it. To you too man! Go drive a 460...let us know how you think it stacks up!

I agree with you but so is an LS 460 :). I agree about the cabin being quieter, but you really think the materials are that much better? They look nice but feel cheap to the touch compared to the ones in an UL LS430. Also the one I drove felt HUGE and awkward in tight turns; my LS430 feels smaller; at least in low speed turns. Hammer the car and things get better. Yes, but a more fair comparison would be the SWB S450 which they don't sell here. Honestly the whole comparison isn't really fair because the S550 is a newer car; compare the LS430 to the S430/S500 and I think that the interior and quality of the Lexus wins hands down; despite the fact that the Mercedes was substantially more expensive. And the interior of the LS460 is really amazing; especially with the upgraded leather package. The S550 actually BEAT the LS460 in the JD Power IQS; but the ratings have been changed to reflect both reported issues as well as things people don't really like about the car. I have heard mixed results anecdotally but so far seems to be much better than the previous generation car. Yes Mercedes has done a wonderful job as far as leveraging the history and heritage of the brand; but it has been moved down market in recent years; both to make for better sales as well as room for the Maybach at the top of the range. I'd be curious to hear your impressions after driving an LS460; I wish I had more experience with the newer Mercedes cars. I really want them to come back to what they used to be.

That's certainly your choice and you are entitled to it. It depends on what's important to you. But picking a car based on no criteria is kind of like picking it by the color. :D I think in the past you could make that generalization but not now. Have you driven the LS and all three of the competitors? The LS460 is every bit the same class of car as the S550, A8 and the BMW750. While the prestige of the brand isn't quite there yet in certain markets; the cars are neck and neck as far as size, power and driving experience. Like I said in my post last year I think the LS drives BETTER than the non-ABC S550; and feels much nicer inside. Having owned a Mercedes for many years and driven many more in the meantime I can tell you that I have a soft spot in my heart for the cars from Sindelfingen; but I just like the way the LS drives better. Also Mercedes made today are just not in the same league as far as quality and finish as the cars from 10 years ago. Or 25 years ago. Dude relax; nobody is attacking you here. If what you mean to say is that the Mercedes brand has a more established, higher brow reputation in the market, then say it-- I'll agree with you. Let's compare apples to apples here.

Hello all. Just got back from the '07 Taste of Lexus event. This year it was in Arcadia which at least for me is a lot farther than it has been in years past so I didn't stay as long as I usually do. The main reason I drove out there was to drive the LS 600hL and see for myself what all the fuss is about. I was not even sure they would have the car because the introduction has apparently been pushed (again) until the fall. I noticed a couple of differences at the event this year; first being that the lines are (almost) gone. You get a smart card when you sign in and you have to reserve a timeslot; this sounds great in practice but if you are like me and want to drive everything there then you'll have a problem as you can't go and reserve multiple timeslots at once. You can only make one reservation at a time. If there aren't a lot of people there this isn't an issue but when you have to wait an hour to drive a car you either can sit around or look at the displays for the umpteenth time; at the old events i could have zipped into the lines of cars that nobody seemed to want to drive. Whatever; if you're going this year go early and reserve often. Also no GX or LX models, and no competitors this year. First I drove the 600h around the hybrid course. It really struck me how eerily silent it is; both inside and out. It makes the 460 sound like a tractor. If the cars were sitting in the queue long enough the engine would cut out and the cars would glide towards the start line in all-electric mode with a creepy silence; no high pitched ringing sound like the Prius or the RX. Even with the engine running you have to strain to hear it as you approach it. Inside the car it was impossible to hear the engine running at all unless you really floor it. They had about 7-8 600s that seem to rotate in and out in groups of 4. On the road the car accelerates much like the GS 450h; a smooth linear rush of power. I'm not sure if I engaged the 2nd of two tranny modes; I never felt a shift. It feels like it's always in 2nd gear; the engine just shoots up towards the redline and stays there until you take your foot off the gas. No waiting for downshifts; stab the throttle and the car just goes. It's quick; but again the LS460 isn't exactly slow. Through the transients I was impressed; the car feels big and heavy but not 900lbs more than the regular 460. It's actually quite spry and quick on its feet; I would venture it felt more agile than the S550 they had last year. The one time the brakes felt a bit grabby was when I was coasting towards the start line on my first run and I stabbed the brakes at a crawl. I then realized at the end of my run that I had shifted past D into the manual gate; the car apparently stayed in S4 the whole time. My second run I made sure to stay in Drive and the car felt completely normal; no hint of the elves and wizards under the hood and the braking system was completely transparent--I couldn't feel any weirdness as the regen braking cut in and out. I don't know if the car had the power stabilizer system or not but there was almost no body lean and the ride was remarkably smooth. Immediately after my first run I drove the LS460L. Only then did the extra weight of the 600h become apparent; but it's not a huge difference. Also one of the 600h cars I drove had the exec seating package; not sure how much additional weight that adds to the mix. The course for the 460 was a lot longer than the hybrid course so I was able to throw it around a little more. Still the same great driving experience as last year. After that I hit the 600 again and yes it feels different; but it could be the weight; could be the AWD. I think the 600h actually felt more balanced than the non-hybrid model. The fitments are even nicer than the LS460 (leather dash; wood on the grab handles and shifter). It feels very posh and very expensive. Apparently the prototypes have some Japan-spec parts; the Lexus Link system gave all its prompts in Japanese. Nobody would let us see the trunk of either the running cars or the car they had in the tent; someone was telling me it's even smaller than the initial prototypes suggest. Also the informational associates had NO clue as to when the cars would start arriving at dealerships; they said the Neiman Marcus models had gone out but other than that there was no arrival date; she said she drove the prototype into Newport Lexus and it was the first one they had ever seen. I guess if I had more time to run around in the 600H I would have a stronger opinion as to if I think it's worth the money. Right now my impression is that the LS600 really is in a class by itself. There's nothing else on the road that feels quite like it in terms of driving experience save the GS450h. I'm not saying it's better than everything else; just markedly different from any other car of that class I have driven; and also markedly different than the Camry and Prius hybrids I have driven. It's very quiet; it's very comfy; it's very quick. But so it the non-hybrid car. It feels expensive (the quiet and mass help here). I guess if I had a driver or was only going to do driving in town I would consider a 600h (on the planet where I'm buying a $100k+ car). However if you are the kind of person who takes long trips on the highway and values luggage and gas mileage then the gas model might be a better fit. You can't really go wrong either way. Some pix attached. Almost half a million bucks worth of hybrids! I drove the one on the right for my first run. The lovely expensive leather covered dash. Immediately after I snapped this i got yelled at for having my phone out while driving. Doh!. I was waiting to get out of the car. :chairshot:

I second the recommendation; I've had mine for over a year and it works really well. You can also use the smart playlists feature to create a list of all your favorite songs (I have an 80's rock playlist) that gets added to automatically when you add new songs to the itunes library. Been using it for over a year now; besides scrolling through the artist/album/genre lists seems a surefire way to crash the car :chairshot: . You can always put it in manual mode however if you want access to the full library.

Something similar happened to me when i tried to unload a CD in my 6 disk changer. I FREAKED then realised that for whatever reason the CD was not being picked up by the eject mechanism. It's probably something to do with the laquer or whatever they used to print the artwork (it was disk 1 of the Eurythmics Live CD BTW which has a lot of art on it). Oddly I have never had this problem with a regular CDR. If it's stuck in the loading process you can try this: turn the car off if it's running take an index card or a business card and cover the end of it with double sided (or reversed) tape so it's sticky on both sides turn the unit on and hit eject. When the door opens; stick the card inside and try to grab the CD. This worked well for me. Once i grabbed it and moved it past wherever it had jammed the CD spit out with no problems and the CD changer seems to work fine. I would avoid using anything metal as you might break something in the mechanism and really do some damage. Also the CD changer and radio do come out as a unit; you'll need a 10mm socket wrench with extender to remove the two big bolts that hold it in. And like 03 says be VERY careful...there is a CAVERN under that part of the car and where a screw falls it may stay (and rattle) forever. Thanks very much for your reply. No, just standard storebought CD's were used. It seems the changer must come out anyway for repair, so I'll give it a try. My car has a "salvage title" which voids all warranties. A very quirky law in California. In a minor wreck, it had very little damage to the bumper and for whatever reason, the insurance company ended up owning it. A perfect car with less than 20k miles. I must say that I regret owning that "black cloud" on the title, but what car it is!

Hey there GX...what you will want to do is poke around on techinfo.lexus.com (and pay the $10 for the one day access) or go down to your local library and see if they have a Chilton or other repair manual for your car (I believe the ES and Camry may be the same one). In the wiring diagrams you'll see the layout of the stereo system and the pinouts for where the mute wire could be; almost always one can be found on the back of the radio somewhere. I know that many LS models have the stereo head unit and amp separate; that's why it's such a PITA to wire into the speakers because there is no easy way to intercept the feed to them without going into the trunk (or under the seat) or going into the door itself. With the ES you have a better probability of having the amp and headunit being integrated; there may be someone who makes a wiring harness that would connect to the back of the stereo and then to the Motorola and your speakers. You could also do what I did; pull the unit to check the connectors and then order connectors online and try to make your own. Be warned however that Toyota and Lexus pinouts rarely match up; so if you do find a Toyota harness that seems to fit you might have to do some surgery (hope you're handy with a soldering iron) to make it work with the ES. I'm not sure if it's worth it to use the stereo speakers; OEM Lexus phonekits usually had one speaker to minimise the chance of echo (although the DSP units in todays kits are much better at cancelling it out). The only reason I went to such trouble to use the OEM wiring was that I couldn't really find an easy place to put the aftermarket speaker; although everybody seems to find a place under the dash near the pedals (I knew I would probably kick it one day so I didn't put it there). Use of that speaker will make your installation much easier. Good luck.

I noticed the lexus.com site was updated recently reflecting the new options packages for the 600h. While the inclusion of a Premium Package II was interesting (RSES and a three person rear power seat) I notice the APCS is not on the list yet. I guess maybe this is why the 600h launch was delayed a month? I have read that Toyota is having trouble getting gov't clearance for the rear facing radar feature. Do people think this feature is worth waiting for? I wonder if for '08 the LS460 will also get more variety in the package options?

Toyota had something like 1400 engineers and 2800 technicians working for 6 years on that car. To put that in perspective I believe that was 1/2 the number of engineers and almost the same amount of the time that Boeing spent to engineer the 777 around the same time (I'm sure Boeing probably spent more money though). The head of the sales division I think even joked that he didn't plan to build any service centers because he wasn't expecting the car to ever break down. :whistles: I wonder how many million miles examples are out there?

When I was in PA the window regulator died in my old Benz. I took it to a local shop to have them put a new one in, and the mechanic said "I love these cars i have 2 of them. One has 600k miles and the other has 400k miles." I asked him if there was anything special he had to do to hit that high mileage and he said "not really; they are both automatics. If it was a manual I would have to replace the clutch every once in a while." I think it certainly speaks to the quality of any car that people keep them so long; either they are fanatics or not much breaks during that time. Of course if you want to replace all the pieces any car can run forever but after a certain point it's ridiculous from a cost and bother perspective. You certainly see alot more of the early 80's Mercedes and Toyota/Hondas here than American cars. I can't tell you the last time I saw a GenI Ford Taurus... I'm surprised the original engine in that car lasted 600k miles; even the bulletproof MB diesel engines usually need a major rebuild around 300k. My parts guy in Sun Valley asks me if I want to sell my engine every time I go up there...he said he as a waiting list for w123 engines. I guess this bodes well for the LS430... :D

I seem to get between 18-19mpg. But like one of the previous posters says it depends on how you drive the car and also where you drive it. I drive about 60%-40% freeway/city driving. If I avoid the freeway my mileage can go as low as 16mpg. In Vegas where they leave the cars running and you sit at the lights forever I actually hit 10mpg for the tank. Conversely between here and San Francisco I believe I got between 25-27mpg for the highway leg; and I think between here and Vegas I hit 30 mpg until we started to hit traffic. And bear in mind I drive like an 80yr old man...I don't think I've ever driven the car past 90mph (now someone else's car that's different ) Do you drive mostly city or highway mileage? Also are you sure the tire pressures are set correctly? With the 17 inch wheels and tires I find it hard to tell if one of them is going flat.

The quality of the BMW fitments has gotten better and better. The last 95-01 7 series had a stunning interior that was nicely finished. While I like the materials of the latest 7 the design and shape of the components just seems very awkward to me..to say nothing of that hideous I-drive. Trying too hard to be modern? I felt the Mercedes interiors have been on a steady downward spiral since the mid 90's; and it's mostly just the materials choice. The '00-04 S-class felt like a Chrysler inside; way too much cheap looking plastic. Honestly the S550 is better but still not what you would except from a car that costs $100k; and still not on par with the LS (or my 20yr+ 240D!!!). In handling though the BMWs are amazing..I freely admit that. The 3 and 5 in particular have an agility and catchabilty that I think make most people believe they are better drivers than they really are (hence the famous BMW bad driving jabs). Even the huge 7 feels like a GS or E class when you really push it. That's what those cars are about; more than just brute force straightline power. What good is the power if you can't use it all the time? Rock hard ride though (although the latest models less so). Every Mercedes I've driven except maybe the latest C class feels like a old man's car. I haven't driven the S550 with ABC but the normal S felt huge and ponderous; like a (very fast) tank. The E feels very stable; just not that willing to play. The steering has gotten quicker and more accurate over the years; but it's still a little dead feeling. I guess I like the LS because it nicely splits the difference. I feel like it's always going to go exactly where I point it; it just doesn't tempt me to be bad like the BMW. It seems.....friendlier. I'm curious to drive the big Audi....

Yes another site with unnecessary videos and flash animations; all in Japanese. http://lexus.jp/models/ls600h/index.html Pretty nice branding though. I wonder if they give you a DVD of this movie when you buy the car: http://lexus.jp/models/ls600h/concept/index.html It seems they are really pushing the Exec seating package on this car in both the Japanese and European PR materials. I wonder if it's standard there? Enjoy!

Oooh I like that. I have always been a sedan guy but lately the idea of a CL/650 sized coupe is starting to appeal to me. I know Lexus had looked into the idea of an LS400 based coupe a couple years ago....maybe it's time to do so again!

It's all in here in the writeup for my bluetooth install. Download part 2 it's on page 9. Make sure you label all the connectors if you have to disconnect the piece next to the drawer; they all look alike!

No this thread will not die. Everyone holds out hope for dogboy's return. Part 1 of my bluetooth doc (click here) will explain the architecture of the Lexus phone system if you are interested in knowing how it works and what your options are (see the faq on the last 2 pages).

You obviously didn't drive it SW otherwise you would have gone home with one. Yes the rear seat legroom is very good; I would say on par with the S Class if not better. I think the exec seating package is a bit of a boondoggle; using it really reduces the LS to a 3 person car. You do also get some additional goodies like the glass and standard nav (and the power door closers I believe). My only concern would be that (and I'm surprised to admit this) my LS430 is approaching the limits as to the size of car i would want to drive on an everyday basis. Parallel parking it on the street can be dodgey; even with the park assist system --I guess that's what the advanced parking guidance is for! I'm also too scared to put it in those compact spaces at the mall. From what I remember the SWB model has a teensy bit less legroom than the LS430; but if you don't usually carry a whole group of people this won't matter (and I'm sure it feels a little snappier in the curves). Did they have any info on what options are coming for '08? I predict you'll be in one before july 4th..... :)

Well here's another review...this one glowing from Car and Driver (who were not as enamoured with the 460). http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests...us-ls600hl.html At least these guys claim the car drives differently than the base model car. They also tested it significantly faster (although their 460 was almost .5 seconds slower than lexus claims.) The plot thickens...