Nooooobamacare!

[13IS250C]

"We will be a second rate, third world country with no work ethics or moral values."

I'm afraid a majority of the people already fit that bill.

Come to Memphis and let me drive you around and let you see how this once beautiful city has turned into ruin and decay. Nobody has pride anymore. Nobody wants to work hard and do things for the community. They outnumber us hard working taxpayers. They have the voting majority. I don't see it changing in my lifetime. I feel bad for my children and grandaughter. They will never know the life I have enjoyed.

[LEXIRX330]

Oh man we got some new blood in here... Welcome Becki! lol I am waiting for Paul and SW... (crickets) :whistles: :D just messing around guys!

[13IS250C]

:D

Nothing ruffles my feathers worse. I work with people that wear new outfits everyday, carry Coach handbags, drive nice vehicles and have iPhones, yet they are on WIC.

My daddy would come out of his grave and whip my BUTT if I ever accepted anything without working for it.

[LEXIRX330]

Oh boy if those other two show up this shall be fun! I am going to have to send them a PM. :whistles:

[13IS250C]

David is a pot stirrer....David is a pot stirrer....

:whistles:

[lenore]

It would truly be interesting to hear from everyone as to the effect on their premiums for this debacle. I know my neighbor's health care increased from about $300 per month with a very large deductible to over $593 per month with a $5000 deductible. Over 1 million in the state of California have been dropped from their health care and now have to go to the exchange. Just another of Government's well ran programs with cost overage exceeding even my expectations.

Chime in and tell us what effect this has had on you......

[nc211]

Well I guess it's time to blow the dust off this old B' around here....

I have a rule that I live by. It's pretty simple and has proven to be nearly 99% accurate every single time. Arrogance is the kiss of death, as it blinds you to the pending failures that lurk around you. To be successful at something, you need to understand where that line in the sand is that separates arrogance and confidence. This whole insurance mess, in my opinion, is born from the roots of arrogance. The idea behind it, I support. I've supported this idea since my first cup of coffee down in the bowels of Children's Mercy Hospital in downtown Chicago over 3 1/2 years ago. The idea (although not new, and not Obama's), is great. The execution however, is Obama. I'm not knocking the guy, but I've said this before many years ago around here, the guy has an arrogant approach at times that just doesn't work. He tells you want you want. I think we're seeing the results of this approach now re: this Obamacare that we've been debating for years now. In my opinion, this will likely be his crowning failure in one hand, and crowning achievement for getting healthcare reform this far along in another. I think this will crash and burn, to be resurrected at a later date by someone else, when the system (and approach) is ready and willing.

As for me, it hasn't impacted me as it has others. I've not been "dropped", but our policy coverage changed last year to force us into these health savings accounts and an annual family deductible (gets paid first) of $3,000 before copay kicks in. I'm fortunate in the sense that I can handle this without rocking the family apple cart.

However, my beef with the health insurance industry in general relates to the mental health policies (or lack there of) for the innocent children. Let me explain. My daughter, who just turned 3 a few weeks ago, is showing a few strong signals for autism. It's been our struggle this year to (a) absorb this reality and, ( B) get ahead of it. We've achieved (a). We're achieving ( B), with absolutely NO help from our insurance policy. In fact, our policy specifically calls out all autistic related services as not being covered. They won't even pay for a genetics test that will show us just exactly what we're looking at with her. Says it's "investigational" for autism spectrum disorder. No S#!T it's "investigational", it's a friggen "test"! Just like the test they're running on me right now on that funny looking mole they took off my left hip last week. The words go hand in hand. But, no help whatsoever. They won't even pay for a speech therapist to help her. They'll pay if someone who had speech and lost it to regain it, say for example, an idiot riding a motorcycle without a helment puts his head into a parked car at 40mph, while drunk. But they won't help an innocent child get it in the first place. I now live in Virginia. There is a new state law that says insurance companies in VA must cover this stuff. However, the insurance companies got their greedy little lobbiest involved before it passed, which essentially put in several loop holes of escape for them. Basically, if I want coverage for my daughter, I must quit my white collar job and go to work for the state, as state employees have insurance policies from state HQ insurance companies. The Aetna's and BCBS of the world, don't have to obey that law because they're not HQ'd in the state of VA. All the while doing business here.

Autism is no longer a unique disease. As part of my learning curve that I've been on this year, I've learned...a lot! What used to be 1/1000 maybe 6 years ago, was 1/88 in 2012, and strongly rumored to be 1/55 this year. One out of every 55 kids....autistic. This is becoming a demographic of it's own now. However, as part of my learning curve, and as it relates to this health insurance debacle, I am wondering if this explosion in cases isn't directly related to the insurance industry in general. You see, if they can widen the definition of autism, and can exclude all coverage associated with autism.... well, you see the facts before you quite clearly now. Now, I know I'm speculating here a bit, playing the conspiracy card. But when you look at the historical data of case increases over the past decade, moreso over the past 4 years since healthcare reform came into our national conversation like it did.... well....

Regardless of me though, the NC211 family will be just fine, but there are millions who won't be. When I say millions, I mean millions of parents who can't afford to help thier kids like I can, which puts me right back into that basement cafeteria in downtown Chicago, staring at other parents drinking that cup of coffee at 3am knowing they just went bankrupt. I also mean millions of frightened, confused, frustrated and anxious children who are seeing a world in front of them they can't engage with in the way there minds are telling them too. We're all bickering about losing our health coverage for when we get sick, and we'll all get sick. As I told my doctor just last week during my annual physical (which, by the way, is totally free) when he told me I need to start doing this, start doing that, because at 40 years old my wieght was 10lbs over what his little flyer says is the ideal weight for me, that at some point in my life I'm going to want to die, and I'm not going to live my life in fear of it by denying myself some (not all) of the vices that I enjoy. You take away my nicotine (nicorette), and I'll take away one of your limbs!

But what about those who are starting out their lives? Those who really need the help for reasons that have nothing to do with the choices they made years ago? We stand here and complain about a website, a dropped policy, a slicked back politician. But how can we allow an american company on american soil deny their protective services to the one thing that we fight wars over to protect, our children? And not just our children, but our sick children who have something that isn't like a cold, or flu that you get over and carry on, but have something that will impact their quality of life forever? How do we allow this system to just abandon them, kick them out of the influential circle of our society? I bet the American ghosts of WWII, if they could, would rise up from Arlington and immediately march down to Congress and wipe those F'ers out.

You show me a pathway that corrects this distgusting fact about this country, and I'll show you one of the greatest leaders of humanity. And anyone who complains about the growing pains associated with that path, can take a number with any 1 out of 55 who'd probably be happy to trade places with you.

PS: The cost of that genetics test to show us the correct path to take for our daughter so she'll be ok? $4,288. Denied by Aetna, as "investigational for autism spectrum disorder". Translation - "we don't care if she's dead or alive, you pay it. And that'll be $3,200 for your monthly premium, due on the 5th, loyal customer."

...and SW in 3.....2.....1.....

[13IS250C]

Let me be the first to say that I'm sorry about your daughter's diagnosis and I sure hope everything goes well and she has total quality of life.

I worry about the American people and their lack of wellness. I guess I see it more in the south than anywhere else in the country. We (not myself!) are basically obese! It disgusts me to no end to go to a buffet at the casino and see the pigs stuffing themselves with plate after plate of fattening food. I was in Canada in August and you didn't see that up there. It is an American disease. We need more wellness centers and wellness education. I can walk by people's desks up here in the morning and people are chomping down on McDonalds greasy sandwiches and hashbrowns or Pop-Tarts. Really?!?!?

Our insurance companies are probably pushed to the limit on claims caused by people just not taking care of themselves....Obesity, smoking and sitting on our cans.

You probably know this better than I do, but I have heard that autism isn't nearly as common in other countries as it is in the US. I personally blame the vaccinations and the hormones in our food.

My 2 cents worth. -_-

[nc211]

Thanks Becki, we're blessed that it's not severe autism at this point, but something is there, no question about it. I appreciate your condolences, but please know they're not needed. One thing I've learned over the past year, is that maybe she's not the one with the problem, maybe us "normal" folks are? She's as happy as a clam, and finds joy in just about everything she gets into. I'd say she is blessed with a true gift in that regard. We're not too worried about her quality of life going forward. It is what it is, it could be A LOT worse, and we're very lucky on countless fronts. But to get back to the topic at hand..

Wow, I sure did spew a lot up there! Guess I know where 2pm went today.

Blood is in the water for Obamacare, and the sharks are circling big time. I'd say it has a 25% chance of surviving at this point. When I heard that some democrats were putting down the line in the sand to make this work by Friday or else they're going to back the republican plan, that's when I figured the law is on life support. As divided as our political system has become, for your own team to threaten to walk from their own policy, you know the clock is ticking down to zero. But, Obama has a track record of going to the last minute and playing hard ball. Just depends if he has anymore political capital to spend on it. Especially given the pending budget deadline coming up soon (again). He's got himself in quite the corner these days. A byproduct of arrogance. If it does survive, I'd say it has an even slimmer chance in a few years of surviving if the Republicans take over. Seems to be a pattern in American politics as of late. 8 years of one, love him the first 4, fry him the second 4, change teams for the next 8 and repeat.

On the China comment from Lenore: When you're creditors are telling you how to run your business, like was the case a few weeks ago on the government shutdown, you've got a huge problem. China showed this administration just who the puppet master really is. For all of the "anti-american" venom Obama spewed towards Bush in 08' for gas prices being $4 and so on....I'd say he's trumped that card himself now. In the short term, it's good for me because I live in DC, and own a home that has seen double-digit appreciation on an annual basis since SW and I went shopping for it two years ago. But, at some point the music is going to stop, and it'll be Obama's turn to feel the heat from the grilling. It's coming, no way around it anymore.

[13IS250C]

I think with a father like you.....she will be fine.

(couldn't find a fist bump so a beer bump will have to do)

[LEXIRX330]

NC- hope your little girl gets all the best care she can get. You may want to look in and see what your premiums would be on the exchange and see if you can find a plan that it would be covered. Then you could opt out of your employers plan or take your family off your employers plan and you keep it. May be a option for you to consider.

There are many things wrong with the insurance industry but the number one thing that has been made worse is the price. It has raised premiums and just like you said deductibles and co pays have now went up.

The whole thing is a mess and I agree I think it is blowing up on its own. But the damage is done. A much better approach would have been to have put in policies there that would have prevented cancelations and set up state or federal funds for people who couldn't qualify for coverage on the open market. And I do think everyone should have access to health care too.

[lenore]

NC first, really pursue intervention with your little girl....I have two autism children in my family, one a nephew and one a second nephew. One exhibits extreme anger all of the time, and frustration. His mom helicopters over him which probably makes it worse, but unfortunately he is destructive also. He has the extreme. Research groups (which I am sure you have done) in your area for support. If caught early like your baby, great strides can be made. My other nephew is happy, and complacent, but unfortunately probably at a 5th grade level (if that) and is 20 years old. Nice kid, but will be struggling to keep up. I went to his high school graduation and it was a very exciting time for him, as well as what the school did to accommodate him. As for causes, its got to be our food chain or drugs with combination of genetics. I am 63 years old and remember no one with this dreaded condition when I was a young adult. God Bless your family with the challenges you face. Love is a powerful tool.

As for health care, well I think this was planned failure, with the eventual plan of destroying the insurance industry. Then the government can come in and really destroy the health system.

[pj8708]

OMG Bullwinkle. We must be in the way back machine...LOL

It's been quite a while since we've had a real dust up on here. In fact, over the last year or so, the moderators have received some comments about too much politics on the site. They wanted car talk only.

My opinion only, we have a forum specifically labeled for open conversation. Anyone is welcome to come in and play or move on to other Lexus forums. The "open microphone" forum fosters comradery and long time frienships among dozens of members.

Regardless of the conversation or topic, we do and will moderate the threads to insist that they follow the LOC rules and guidlines. If someone begins to get out of hand we will not hesitate to ban that member.

Paul

David;....I haven't got the time at the moment to put up my wisdom from my highly superior Democratic brain. I hope to be back Monday.

[LEXIRX330]

Paul. I know it is going to take you a few days to compose your thoughts! lol

[lenore]

Well, now over 90 million could loose their present health care package. This is do to the crazy requirements demanded by the original legislation. How sad that 85% of Americans are going to be effected for coverage for the 15% that did not have coverage. Reform is needed but I don't think this is what Americans really wanted. Everything Government runs is poorly executed or destroyed. Social Security is not an entitlement, it is something you and your employer invested in. But our wonderful representatives gave it away to non-Participants and their little pet programs. This is exactly what is going to happen to this boondoggle. If would have been much better to do reforms, and cost cutting than try to enact this mandate (Obamacare) . THe tax implications next year are going to be the second boot to America. Cant wait to see what happens to our economy when the full program kicks in. Hey re-distribution of wealth and destruction of free enterprise. You just got to love it.

[pj8708]

Remember this moment in time........, on this day in history, Paul agreed in part with some of what Lenore said.

I am humbled.

In comparison, using Social Security as a bench mark, a look back over the introduction of the idea, the debate of it's benifits, and it's sputtering implmentation, made FDR unpopular and dealing with an unhappy populace for several years.

Paul

[LEXIRX330]

Remember this moment in time........, on this day in history, Paul agreed in part with some of what Lenore said.

Paul

all I can say is WOW!

[13IS250C]

Love it or hate it...everywhere you go people are talking about it. I have heard nothing but negativity. I have not heard a single soul say anything positive.

[lenore]

Well on this very important day, remember "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" That was from a man of smaller government and fiscal conservatism.

[LEXIRX330]

Man SW kind of admitted it was bad and the website crashes and it is lost! :)

[pj8708]

A beautiful and peaceful Thanksgiving to all of you and your loved ones,

Paul

[SW03ES]

Man SW kind of admitted it was bad and the website crashes and it is lost! :)

LOL! I know! I saw you responded in my email, came here to respond to your response when I got back from Thanksgiving and it was all gone!

It never happened. It was all a dream.

All kidding aside, I think ultimately over time it will work out but right now the implementation is clearly a disaster. I think part of your response was about us going from group and why we didn't have individual policies before. The reason we went group (only 5 of us) originally was because my partner has a pre-existing condition and could not get coverage for himself individually, so we formed the group to get around that even though it cost us more to do it that way. Now he can get coverage and its going to save us a LOT of money. So for us, Obamacare works.

BUT, we have yet to be successful when it comes to signing up. He's spent HOURS on the phone and trying to get it done on the website. When you consider what he and I bill out for...its an enormous time expense...so...I suppose it doesn't work if we can't sign up for the damn policies...

[lenore]

the sad thing is the prices are best in the DC area.....Go figure.....The rest of the nation sucks big time. So much for the young folks hitting the computers to sign up when they find out how much they have to pay.

[SW03ES]

Do you have some source that they are cheapest here?

[lenore]

Here is a interesting read from Forbes to show some of the effects:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/