Nooooobamacare!

[LEXIRX330]

Guys I just can't believe this. "it's not a tax" how many times did we here this? But how did the individual mandate get passed as a TAX! What a mess this is going to be...No one even knows what the exchanges will look like and some states haven't even started working on them. Maryland has went full speed ahead on creating them. But congress has already said they won't fund it so...WOW!

All I can say is I know how I will vote.

[1990LS400]

Please more this thread to "The Club Lounge". It is not appropriate in the "New Members Welcome" subforum.

[lenore]

As for the Obama care, well next will be the elimination of guns, and term limits for Presidents. Then we will have the annoted one forever, kind of like Castro or Chavez....Socialism here we rush....If people would study the history books that were written before the progressive revisions, they could learn a lot. No wonder so many on these forums only know the re-written history....First the banks, guns, religous rights, and eventually all of our freedoms. Now mandated health care which doesnt fix the medical system one bit. They need to go back to the table and do some real problem solving. Maybe they should throw away their party ID and act like adults, or maybe even better a business that wants to solve problems and make things cost effective with meeting the needs of the customer. Now there is a real world solution. Protect the un-insurable, add some tort reform, and I am sure there are some great ideas that could solve the real escalating costs. Ever ask how much a procedure cost at a hospital for CASH, They are totally deer in a headlight when trying to come to an answer. Funny usually a lot cheaper than what the insurance companies get. Add some competition across borders and maybe cost will go down. I am by no means in the health industry, but I do know problem solving. THese folks havent a clue.

Edited June 30, 2012 by SW03ES
TOS violations and off topic

[LEXIRX330]

Please more this thread to "The Club Lounge". It is not appropriate in the "New Members Welcome" subforum.

Jim you are right and I will do that as soon as I can from my PC. I posted from my iPhone and didn't even realize that it got put in the wrong subforum. Thanks for pointing it out.

Some one else has moved it. Thanks.

[LEXIRX330]

Lenore. How did I know that you would be here with me!

Just waiting for SW and Paul to start beating me up...now.

[lenore]

Hey LEXIRX330, we middle of the road, logical Americans have to stand together.

I find myself leaving the two parties and praying that the Tea Party or Liberterians take over. Less government is good.

Edited June 30, 2012 by SW03ES
TOS violations

[LEXIRX330]

So I just called one of my Health Insurance brokers and asked her so what is the Maryland Health Exchange going to look like that we are supposed to start using soon? She said "I have no idea, no one knows what they are doing. I have had 10 emails from carriers and none of them know what the health exchanges will do and where they are going to get funding from. But it appears that the rates will be going up"

NICE!

[1990LS400]

So I just called one of my Health Insurance brokers and asked her so what is the Maryland Health Exchange going to look like that we are supposed to start using soon?

Why do you think you are going to have to use a health insurance exchange? Are you currently uninsured?

[lenore]

Some employers may force that, since it would be cheaper to drop your health insurance and pay any fine (tax).....

[LEXIRX330]

I own a insurance agency and have a couple of offices. We don't specialize in health insurance by any means but I have a dozen or so groups and quite a few individual health care policies on the books. The idea is that the small groups and the individual market is going to fold to the exchange. MD has been full speed ahead in implementing their exchange. So I wasn't saying necessarily for me but who knows who will have to use the exchanges.

[SW03ES]

Okay, we're not going to put up with things like saying people have mental disorders, we're not going to put up with racially charged statements and things like that anymore. Posts are going to be edited, deleted and people are going to get banned if they persist. If we're going to have these discussions here, they're going to be respectful.

Hey LEXIRX330' date=' we middle of the road, logical Americans have to stand together.

I find myself leaving the two parties and praying that the Tea Party or Liberterians take over. Less government is good.[/quote']

HA! You are not middle of the road lenore. The second sentence of your post and being "middle of the road" are not compatible.

*I* am a middle of the road moderate. You're one of the hardest right wingers I've ever spoken to.

Some employers may force that, since it would be cheaper to drop your health insurance and pay any fine (tax).....

The flaw in this argument is that employers don't have to provide healthcare now. If they do so, they do so because they want to and it makes sense for their organization. If they were worried about doing things the cheapest way they can, they'd have no coverage now.

I'm interested LEXI and Lenore to know specifically what about this healthcare legislation you think is going to be so terrible and why...what is so terrible about the "exchange"?

[LEXIRX330]

I'm interested LEXI and Lenore to know specifically what about this healthcare legislation you think is going to be so terrible and why...what is so terrible about the "exchange"?

And there he is! :) now just waiting on Paul!

Ok. The exchanges will make it impossible for health insurance companies to compete. It will force companies out of the market and the ones that remain will have their rates sky rocket. Look at Medicaid, there are many Docs that have stopped accepting it. Why? Because the reimbursement rates are so low.

There are loads of great things in the health care "law" but it did nothing to address the real peoblem which is the COST. By the way how many times did our great leader say "it isn't a tax"???? Funny it was passed as a TAX?

I do agree there is no need for the name calling.

[SW03ES]

How will the exchanges make it impossible for health insurance companies to compete? Medicaid is a completely different ballgame...

It wasn't passed as a tax, Roberts simply applied the legal groundwork for the governments' right to tax as a way of upholding the mandate and the penalty that comes with it. The administration is not calling it a tax, nor is it a tax. If you have insurance, you pay no penalty.

[LEXIRX330]

Right and if "someone" doesn't by insurance they will be taxed. This is the government forcing you to purchase something.

SW you are a smart guy. Medicare is no different than what our healthcare system will look like in the future if this law stands. If small employers drop the plans the bulk of those people will be forced in the exchanges. That is the plan...once that happens the small group market is dead. It will be unaffordable to offer insurance if you are a small employer. It has already started with the implementation of the first parts of the law...how could it not?

Tell me what is wrong with our healthcare system now? It cost too much, people can't afford it, some people wait to get it then they can't get it do to poor health, some people are dropped and can't get coverage? Other than that we have the best Drs and hospitals and medical facilities in the world. So as a small employer when I get my renewal on my health insurance and the rates go up 20% or so what will I do either drop the plan and let the employees buy individual coverage through the exchanges or raise my deductible one the plan.

[SW03ES]

Right and if "someone" doesn't by insurance they will be taxed. This is the government forcing you to purchase something.

Correct, its a mandate. The Government forces you to do lots of things, including buy insurance as you know. If you don't buy car insurance...you get fined. You can call that fine a tax, or a fine...its up to you.

SW you are a smart guy. Medicare is no different than what our healthcare system will look like in the future if this law stands.

How? This law has absolutely no Government run or operated healthcare option, which is what Medicare is. Anyways...Medicare is pretty doggone good, my mother files insurance claims for doctors, she's done it for nearly 20 years. Medicare is easier to deal with and pays more than MANY private insurance companies. My Dad went through a terrible protracted illness with a combination of Medicare and an inexpensive Medicare supplimental. He had no bills. Not one.

You originally sai it was like Medicaid...now Medicare...the two are different.

If small employers drop the plans the bulk of those people will be forced in the exchanges. That is the plan...once that happens the small group market is dead. It will be unaffordable to offer insurance if you are a small employer. It has already started with the implementation of the first parts of the law...how could it not?

You're still not answering my questions:

1. What in this law will force small employers to drop coverage they provide to their employees now?

2. What specifically about the "exchange" will drive the cost of insurance up? The whole point is to bring it down by providing a mechanism for competition.

So as a small employer when I get my renewal on my health insurance and the rates go up 20% or so what will I do either drop the plan and let the employees buy individual coverage through the exchanges or raise my deductible one the plan.

I'm a small employer too. You again have not answered my question. WHY would you expect your rates will go up 20%?

[ArmyofOne]

All I can say, is thank god for Tricare and the VA. LOL.

[LEXIRX330]

Ok Medicaid is what intended on saying my auto correct changed it on me. Steve do you honestly believe that your insurance premiums are going to go down? Have you seen any news coverage on this? What has the law done? There is nothing to address cost and everything is to expand coverage. (that is why the premiums HAVE WENT UP) I don't need to prove a point ask any small employer what happened when the bill was passed. 100% of my groups took a increase. Including mine. So unless a group changed their plan or had a average age decrease, or raised their deductible their premiums went up because of the new coverages that had to be offered.

Car insurance is different. I choose to have a car...

[SW03ES]

All I can say, is thank god for Tricare and the VA. LOL.

Tricare and the VA...another government run healthcare system that works pretty doggone good huh Josh? My uncle who died about 6 months ago went through a long illness with Tricare as the primary, medicare as the secondary. Not one bill.

I have never been to a doctor or had a family member under private insurance deal with a health issue and not had a bunch of bills, whether they were accurate or not.

Steve do you honestly believe that your insurance premiums are going to go down?

Thats how business works, when you increase competition, premiums go down. Thats the whole point of the exchange. I have been shown no reasoning to expect that they won't, and certainly no rationale to expect that they will go up. I've asked LOTS of people why they think the healthcare bill will cause premiums to rise...and they don't have an answer.

Have you seen any news coverage on this?

No I don't watch TV. Of course I have, but news coverage anymore is so one sided. CNN, MSNBC are all rah rah yeah and FOX is all "he's going to put a horse head in your bed". I prefer to draw my own conclusions.

What has the law done? There is nothing to address cost and everything is to expand coverage. (that is why the premiums HAVE WENT UP

The law hasn't even gone into effect yet! How can you say its done anything at all?!? The whole point of the exchanges is to reduce cost by creating competition.

I don't need to prove a point ask any small employer what happened when the bill was passed. 100% of my groups took a increase. Including mine. So unless a group changed their plan or had a average age decrease, or raised their deductible their premiums went up because of the new coverages that had to be offered.

If you want to have a debate, you always have to prove your point. This is how it always is with you guys, you make claims, say things are going to happen...and you have no rationale or evidence to support your position. Don't regurgitate what Fox News tells you...THINK! Decide for yourself.

Like I said, I am a small employer. Rates may have gone up short term after the bill was passed, thats becuase they left such a long period for insurance companies to gouge us before it goes into effect and it won't be so easy, I think that was a mistake. BUT, the law isn't even in effect yet, the exchanges don't exist...you have to wait and see what happens when it does kick in before you draw any conclusions.

Car insurance is different. I choose to have a car...

Come on, thats a cop-out argument and you know it. Most people in this country have no choice but to have a car if they want to work. Thats why the Supreme Court upheld the law.

[LEXIRX330]

First off you are wrong. Parts of the law have went into effect. Kids can stay on parents plans, preventative care? So yes these things have driven up cost.

Steve you and I have had plenty of debates on here. I am saying I am telling the rates are going up. As it is part of my profession and I have given you reasons why. You choose not to read them I guess.

Either way I still like you.

[SW03ES]

First off you are wrong. Parts of the law have went into effect. Kids can stay on parents plans, preventative care? So yes these things have driven up cost.

Parts of it, but not the whole plan. The competition of the exchange is what makes the whole thing work. Until the whole thing is rolled out, we can't say what the final result has been.

Steve you and I have had plenty of debates on here. I am saying I am telling the rates are going up. As it is part of my profession and I have given you reasons why. You choose not to read them I guess.

LOL, you haven't given me any reasons why! Other than it expands coverage without addressing cost. I said that the exchanges the allow people to select among many plans creates competition and thus reduces cost. You've said that the exchanges are going to increase cost...but you haven't told us why you think that.

I realize that you are in the insurance business, but admittedly you don't focus on health insurance. The argument that "This is what I do so just believe me without me telling you why" isn't going to hold water with me, you know me better than that. I'm a smart guy, explain it to me.

Either way I still like you.

LOL, ditto!

[LEXIRX330]

Your argument that well we don't know how it will work until it is all in effect is just like theirs we need to pass it to see what is in it. All i know as the last poll that i have seen on this over 60% of people agree with me that they dont want it.

I will try one more time. :) the law the parts that have went into effect will drive up cost! That is a fact THEY have already, the exchange (what you think is going to bring down cost) is going to compete with companies who already are told by the government how much money that they have to spend for every dollar they take in for claims, medical expense ratio? Kind of been regulated already hasn't it? This was already here they just made the percentage higher. How will competing with the companies that you are telling how much they can spend work? Would you want to have competition like that in your business SW? The fact that you say competition will help bring down cost well maybe in many things but what you don't understand about the health insurance industry I think is that the government has been regulating them all along. Too much...so the more regulation companies profits disappears and what happens one or two main carriers and no competition. Well since insurance is regulated by the state, states with a lot of regulations have fewer carriers and just as you have said no competition = higher rates. But what you don't see is that the reason there is no competition is because of the regulations.

Now back to Medicare since I brought it up by mistake? Where is the money? The problem with the government is simply they can't manage money. Want an example FEMA...another gov. run insurance broke. They have had in just the past few year 4 or 5 extensions just to keep it. As a matter of fact last year they ran out of money. Stopped the entire system...how would you like that to be your health insurance? Wait it doesn't matter the government is just steady printing money and spending money and has not a clue as to how they will pay for any of it. So I am sorry but the private sector will and has always done a better job. Funny too when someone sues the government who pays for their screw ups? You and me that's right. However since "your" president :) had to keep his trial lawyer buddys happy he wouldn't even entertain the idea of tort reform.

I tried.

[SW03ES]

All i know as the last poll that i have seen on this over 60% of people agree with me that they dont want it.

The vast majority don't know anything about it.

Would you want to have competition like that in your business SW?

As a business owner lack of competition makes me more money, but competition is ALWAYS good for the consumer.

The fact that you say competition will help bring down cost well maybe in many things but what you don't understand about the health insurance industry I think is that the government has been regulating them all along. Too much...so the more regulation companies profits disappears and what happens one or two main carriers and no competition. Well since insurance is regulated by the state, states with a lot of regulations have fewer carriers and just as you have said no competition = higher rates. But what you don't see is that the reason there is no competition is because of the regulations.

This is a valid argument, but I still don't see any reason why providing a marketplace for competition in an exchange is going to increase costs? Regulations increase costs, I can agree with you about this in practice. Insurance would be real cheap for healthy people if there were no regulations...because anybody who is sick or has a chance of being sick would be excluded! Insured people who get sick would be terminated from the plan. Thats exactly what we're trying to fix.

Requiring young, healthy people to buy into the system is an important component because it helps defray the risk for insurers to help control cost.

Its going to be a process though, the exchanges will need time to build as people buy into them.

I tried.

Hey, if you don't want to have a debate, don't post on the subject...and if you don't want me specifically to chime in...don't ask me to ;)

SOMETHING has to be done, and there is no plan from your side of the aisle, they were asked time and time again to come up with one...

[LEXIRX330]

Hey, if you don't want to have a debate, don't post on the subject...and if you don't want me specifically to chime in...don't ask me to ;)

SOMETHING has to be done, and there is no plan from your side of the aisle, they were asked time and time again to come up with one...

Are you kidding you and I haven't had one of these back and forth exchanges in a long time! I'm lovin it! :)

I'm worried about Paul though. I just knew he would be here. By the way Lenore hasn't even come back on SW what did you do?

Oh yea back on subject so the republicans didn't try to talk to President about tort reform? I remember on more than one occasion talks of republicans trying to share ideas...but I'd not say them either after he just stole Mark Auribios idea that was getting bipartisan work done on it. (another subject) but purely a political move. Since i am off subject I will say I have to agree with Lenore on one thing too. That walk out stunt was a classless act...

It's ok after all the President is the one who was proved wrong by the Supreme Court not me... It's not a tax, there is no way a person can look at this as a tax...blah...blah...what do you know the Supreme Court upheld it as a tax. See this to me is where the whole problem lies. If I don't pay my auto insurance my registration gets suspended and if I want to drive I have to pay a fine. If someone fails to buy health insurance well the IRS will collect it! But it's not a tax. See every speech he gave on this was "it's not a tax, not raising anyone's taxes" Well it was a tax and that is a fact.

[pj8708]

Everyone here is going to be admitted to the E.R. soon if you don't take a deep breath and count to ten. That first Stroke can be a doozie.

The disscussion(?) nets out to be not at all about whether the goverment can force you to buy something, it all ready does. And it is not about insurances exchanges, it's boiled down to a national shame argument.

When G.W.Bush was Pres. there was much talk about doing away with the current Medicare and going to a voucher system. There was some back and forth in Congress and around the country, but ended up a little more than a burp.

When Obama came in and began expaining his idea's for improving the healthcare system, Congress went wild. Remember, it was at this point that the congressonal Repulicals said on the House Floor. "Our only job for the next four years is to get Obama out of office". The Congress we have had since the election has done nothing except fight and throw tantrums. A class of 2nd graders could get more done.

In the meantime, the nations hospitals, Insurance companies, and physicians, have been moving ahead at near Warp speed to streamline and reduce cost of delivery of services, but maintaining quality and copassion.

Physicians and hospitals are forming employed relationships where the financial burden can be lowered and Pay for Performance can be implemented.

My wife is a hospital administrator, and just finished their third software add-on/features upgrade. That one act will save the hospital hundreds of thousands of dollars and standardize communications with Medicare, Insurance co's plus system wide services.

My point is that, the health care field knows the mess the country is in now, and also knows Washington is to busy trying make the other look bad that they won't do anything so it's up to them to lead the way.

The shame part comes in because we have put up with all of this scam. How many of you who are business people would keep any one of these Senator's and Reperseative's on the payroll? Demorcrat or Republican, conservative or liberal, it is our sense of shame that we let this go on. And then our country gets to a point where only the rich can run for office, and the rich pay for the TV commercials and try to set their own agenda.

Healthcare is changing faster than you think. But the one thing I left out above; where does the money come from? Demand that the President and all of Congress stop whining and help us,They are our employees!!.

Paul

[SW03ES]

I'm worried about Paul though. I just knew he would be here. By the way Lenore hasn't even come back on SW what did you do?

I thought about having him disappeared, but I didn't! I promise!

Oh yea back on subject so the republicans didn't try to talk to President about tort reform?

Tort reform is not a solution in and of itself. I agree its a part of a solution, but there is no alternative plan.

It's ok after all the President is the one who was proved wrong by the Supreme Court not me... It's not a tax, there is no way a person can look at this as a tax...blah...blah...what do you know the Supreme Court upheld it as a tax. See this to me is where the whole problem lies. If I don't pay my auto insurance my registration gets suspended and if I want to drive I have to pay a fine. If someone fails to buy health insurance well the IRS will collect it! But it's not a tax. See every speech he gave on this was "it's not a tax, not raising anyone's taxes" Well it was a tax and that is a fact.

Who cares if its called a tax or not? Its semantics. You can't let semantics make up your mind about something like this.