Cut-Off

[vietxtcboi6]

Just last night, driving behind this one vehicle and notice my stock halogen with stock bulbs for low beams had a cut-off. Means I could see where the beam was. If so there was a cut-off then i could do HID then without Projector conversion then right???

[kingnba6]

doesnt the 350 have projectors?

[cduluk]

The 07-09 RX350 comes with 3 versions of headlights:

1.) Halogen low beams using a "reflector" system

2.) HID low beams using a "projector" system with AFS and auto-leveling

3.) HID low beams using a "projector" system with auto-leveling only

I'm assuming yours uses halogen bulbs with the "reflector" system. Rather than using a projector, it just uses a parabolic reflector to direct light onto the road.

This doesn't mean however, that you can simply install an HID kit into your halogen headlight reflectors. This is due to the fact that halogen bulbs and HID bulbs aren't shaped the same way. A halogen bulb uses a filament that is placed x distance from its base. A re-based HID bulb (even if it indicates the same size as your halogen bulbs) will have its "capsule" (part of the bulb that lights up) placed at x+1 distance from its base. Thus, when installed, the light from an HID bulb will not be located at the focal point of a halogen bulb reflector, resulting in NO cutoff. You'll have a blurry output and potentially blind oncoming drivers...

[kingnba6]

thanks for that info!

[jaswood]

The 07-09 RX350 comes with 3 versions of headlights:

1.) Halogen low beams using a "reflector" system

2.) HID low beams using a "projector" system with AFS and auto-leveling

3.) HID low beams using a "projector" system with auto-leveling only

I'm assuming yours uses halogen bulbs with the "reflector" system. Rather than using a projector, it just uses a parabolic reflector to direct light onto the road.

This doesn't mean however, that you can simply install an HID kit into your halogen headlight reflectors. This is due to the fact that halogen bulbs and HID bulbs aren't shaped the same way. A halogen bulb uses a filament that is placed x distance from its base. A re-based HID bulb (even if it indicates the same size as your halogen bulbs) will have its "capsule" (part of the bulb that lights up) placed at x+1 distance from its base. Thus, when installed, the light from an HID bulb will not be located at the focal point of a halogen bulb reflector, resulting in NO cutoff. You'll have a blurry output and potentially blind oncoming drivers...

You can buy HID "retrofit" bulbs, "rebased" as you say, that have the electrical arc in exactly the same placement, respectively, as the halogen filament. My experience would indicate that is more the "rule" vs your X+1 statement.

You can even buy dual filament equivalent "hi/lo" HID bulbs that place the arc in the correct position for both high beam and low beam use

[cduluk]

You can buy HID "retrofit" bulbs, "rebased" as you say, that have the electrical arc in exactly the same placement, respectively, as the halogen filament. My experience would indicate that is more the "rule" vs your X+1 statement.

You can even buy dual filament equivalent "hi/lo" HID bulbs that place the arc in the correct position for both high beam and low beam use

It's not just the "position from base" that's the problem- it's the shape of each bulb. Halogen bulbs use a long filament coil that's strung inside, while HID bulbs utilize a small, pea-sized capsule that contains two wires on each end. The light is formed inside the capsule, in the form of an "arc" (like a lightning bolt) going from one end to the other- which illuminates the material in the capsule. The curvature of a halogen reflector/projector is optimized for a long, vertical filament, while an HID reflector/projector is shaped to focus on a very tight pea-sized area. This is why HID units produce such an "even" output, while halogen units cannot. The reason no one has been able to produce a halogen reflector/projector that has such an even light dispersal and sharp cutoff line is because mathematically, it's impossible to produce a paraboloid that has a rectangular focal point (the shape of a filament). Focal points are just that; points.

Unlike HID reflectors/projectors, those designed for halogen bulbs aren't perfect paraboloids. They're stretched to accommodate the rectangular pattern of light from a filament. Thus, even if you manage to find a re-based HID bulb (which has been modified so that the capsule is placed the same distance from its base as in a halogen bulb), only a portion of the capsule will be at the modified focal "rectangle" of the halogen reflector. This is the only light that will end up on the road. The light from the pea-sized capsule that's outside the thin "range" of where a filament would be, will now be thrown everywhere else; above the cut-off line, up in the air, etc. as a halogen reflector was not designed for light outside the range of a filament.

And dual capsule HID bulbs have the same issue, just twice as bad. And they're moot here as Lexus headlights don't use dual filament bulbs for high/low beams- they have separate bulbs for high and low.

[jaswood]

You can buy HID "retrofit" bulbs, "rebased" as you say, that have the electrical arc in exactly the same placement, respectively, as the halogen filament. My experience would indicate that is more the "rule" vs your X+1 statement.

You can even buy dual filament equivalent "hi/lo" HID bulbs that place the arc in the correct position for both high beam and low beam use

It's not just the "position from base" that's the problem- it's the shape of each bulb. Halogen bulbs use a long filament coil that's strung inside, while HID bulbs utilize a small, pea-sized capsule that contains two wires on each end. The light is formed inside the capsule, in the form of an "arc" (like a lightning bolt) going from one end to the other- which illuminates the material in the capsule. The curvature of a halogen reflector/projector is optimized for a long, vertical filament, while an HID reflector/projector is shaped to focus on a very tight pea-sized area. This is why HID units produce such an "even" output, while halogen units cannot. The reason no one has been able to produce a halogen reflector/projector that has such an even light dispersal and sharp cutoff line is because mathematically, it's impossible to produce a paraboloid that has a rectangular focal point (the shape of a filament). Focal points are just that; points.

Unlike HID reflectors/projectors, those designed for halogen bulbs aren't perfect paraboloids. They're stretched to accommodate the rectangular pattern of light from a filament. Thus, even if you manage to find a re-based HID bulb (which has been modified so that the capsule is placed the same distance from its base as in a halogen bulb), only a portion of the capsule will be at the modified focal "rectangle" of the halogen reflector. This is the only light that will end up on the road. The light from the pea-sized capsule that's outside the thin "range" of where a filament would be, will now be thrown everywhere else; above the cut-off line, up in the air, etc. as a halogen reflector was not designed for light outside the range of a filament.

And dual capsule HID bulbs have the same issue, just twice as bad. And they're moot here as Lexus headlights don't use dual filament bulbs for high/low beams- they have separate bulbs for high and low.

Sounds like a lot of doublespeak to me, but.....

If you look at the "size" of the halogen filament with respect to the distance of any point on the reflector asssembly the ~1/8" filament length will appear about the same as a distant star to a human eye, a single, small, BRIGHT point of light. But even so, the HID's single point of light is "centered" at the centerpoint of the ~1/8" halogen filament. So if anything is different the distance lighting of a HID within a halogen assembly will yeild more focussed lighting around, near, the downroad point of interest.

[The G Man]

I can say from experience that any rebased HID kits in a reflector hosuing just doesnt work. It is impossible to focus the light, the light always end up scattered and blinding oncoming drivers. That is why car manufacturers do not use HID lights with reflector housing.

[jaswood]

I cant say from experience that any rebased HID kits in a reflector hosuing just doesnt work. It is impossible to focus the light, the light always end up scattered and blinding oncoming drivers. That is why car manufacturers do not use HID lights with reflector housing.

I have an '01 "AWD" RX300 w/HID headlights. I traded up from an '00 in order to get HID, TC and VSC. The '01 uses "reflector" type HID assembly and not only that upon inspection of a friend's '00 the reflector assembly appears to be the same.

Granted, projector beam headlight assemblies, HID and Halogen, off a more tightly focussed, sharper cutoff, low beam. But it appears that many manufacturers are sticking with the same old reflector assemblies .

[cduluk]

Actually the Rx300 halogen reflector units are much different than the Rx300 HID reflector versions- look closely and you'll be able to see how they're shaped differently. I know because I have taken both apart during one of my Rx300 headlight mods. That was actually the first time I noticed the difference between those for HID and halogen.

It's not impossible for manufacturers to make reflector units for HID bulbs, it's just not as efficient in a reflector than it is with a projector. If any still do it in present day, it's because refletors are much cheaper to make than projector units. Nowadays you'll see most HID headlights using "projectors" since projectors use a completely flat parabolic "mirror" which concentrates on the smallest round focal point (which is where the capsule of an HID bulb is placed) which guarantees that all light from that round focal point goes onto the road; ie it's incredibly efficient. There are several halogen projectors, but the "bowls" (the parabolic mirrors) aren't true paraboloids, but rather they're "stretched" to include the rectangular pattern of the filaments in halogen bulbs. Unlike parabolic mirrors, reflectors have a lot of tiny "flat surfaces" conected together which will make for a larger focal point. Notice how a reflector isn't completely smooth like the inside of a spoon? As you increase the size of these "flat surfaces", you'll make a larger focal point (required to capture all of the light from a larger elongated filament) but since there will be fewer of these flat surfaces, you'll have less mirror images of the focal point being reflected on the road.

And you're never going to find a halogen reflector unit that will produce the same output pattern using an HID bulb as it does with a halogen bulb... It's just not possible, that's why car manufacturers design different units for halogen and HID such as on the RX300, 02-04 ES300, 01-03 LS430, etc. See my next post for photos.

[cduluk]

here are some camparison shots between the halogen reflector and an HID reflector of the 99-03 RX300.

Here is the halogen reflector:

And here is the HID reflector:

Can you see the difference? Halogen reflectors will not be as uniform in their design, as the areas of the reflector closest to the filament will need to have a different curvature than areas of the reflector further away from the filament. This is to compensate for the "rectangular" shape of the focal point (filament). HID reflectors on the other hand can have more of a true parabolic shape all around as the focal point is more "round" and focused (the shape of the capsule in the HID bulb).

And here is the halogen version of the 00-01 ES300 headlight:

And here is the HID version of the 00-01 /ES300 headlight:

Can you see how the halogen reflector is formed by putting several "square" flat pieces of mirror together? While the HID reflector is made up of many more "smaller" flat pieces together? This is because when you fit a rectangular filament in a round focal point, it results in making the focal point larger, requiring larger mirrors on the reflector. But since an HID bulb's capsule is already small and round, the tiny "mirror pieces" that make up the reflector can be smaller, giving you the ability to add more of them to the reflector, resulting in more light on the road.

Engineers go through a lot to create a reflector custom to the bulb it will be using. You CANNOT just throw an HID bulb into a halogen reflector, the output will suffer greatly. Even the slightest millimeter of movement of the filament or HID bulb capsule will change the output on the road. Just try and wiggle your bulb in the socket a little and you'll see how sensitive the curvature of these reflectors are. Try to think of the curvature of a headlight reflector as the curvature of a pair of glasses lenses... Putting an HID bulb into a halogen reflector is like giving someone a pair of glasses that were designed for someone else- they might help a "little" but they're not guaranteed to be perfect for them.

[The G Man]

I have an '01 "AWD" RX300 w/HID headlights. I traded up from an '00 in order to get HID, TC and VSC. The '01 uses "reflector" type HID assembly and not only that upon inspection of a friend's '00 the reflector assembly appears to be the same.

Granted, projector beam headlight assemblies, HID and Halogen, off a more tightly focussed, sharper cutoff, low beam. But it appears that many manufacturers are sticking with the same old reflector assemblies .

Yes, that is a factory HID setup, not a rebased HID in a halogen relector housing. Like cduluk said, lexus have switched to a projector HID setup years ago because it projects a much brighter and better focus beam than a reflector.

[vietxtcboi6]

Wow! Thank you all for the info. I'll definetly know now. My RX350 came with halogen headlight. Passenger side is condensed with water and its bugging me. I truly wanted to buy a pair of projected headlights. Thank you again.

[cduluk]

Wow! Thank you all for the info. I'll definetly know now. My RX350 came with halogen headlight. Passenger side is condensed with water and its bugging me. I truly wanted to buy a pair of projected headlights. Thank you again.

Actually, you can do an HID projector conversion without any issues. Simply purchase a pair of used 04-09 RX330/350/400h headlights in the HID projector type (the RX comes with 3 different options for headlights). It'll take some custom wiring (to wire the ballasts), but the HID projector type headlights will be a direct fit into your RX350 ie: the tabs will line up perfectly.

[vietxtcboi6]

Actually, you can do an HID projector conversion without any issues. Simply purchase a pair of used 04-09 RX330/350/400h headlights in the HID projector type (the RX comes with 3 different options for headlights). It'll take some custom wiring (to wire the ballasts), but the HID projector type headlights will be a direct fit into your RX350 ie: the tabs will line up perfectly.

so your saying is the rx330-rx400h 04-09 will fit the 08 rx350? hmm.. I really am looking for just decent projector headlights for HIDs wihtou AFS nor auto level. The car didnt equip with AFS so no need to get AFS then right?

This is what I came across over my searches but its way too pricey.

http://jdmautolights...a48c1391989c7cd

And this one from ebay but too good to be true. Half off from the link above. but the first one is fancy looking dunno how the output will look.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEPO-FREE-SHIP-04-09-LEXUS-RX330-RX-350-RX-400h-FACELIFT-PROJECTOR-HEADLIGHT-/250981645582?fits=Make:Lexus|Year:2008&hash=item3a6fabfd0e&item=250981645582&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

wondering anyone out there who bought or upgraded willing to help me find decent Projector headlights for my vehicle. greatly appreciated.

[kingnba6]

Depo headlights are supposed to be good. im not sure if those ebay ones are legit depo or fakes. but most of the time they are fake. and the fake ones are a hit or a miss. sometimes you get lucky and they actually have good output. sometimes you get "ok" and get some black spots on the output. sometimes you get terrible and have lights worse than reflectors.

[jaswood]

Actually, you can do an HID projector conversion without any issues. Simply purchase a pair of used 04-09 RX330/350/400h headlights in the HID projector type (the RX comes with 3 different options for headlights). It'll take some custom wiring (to wire the ballasts), but the HID projector type headlights will be a direct fit into your RX350 ie: the tabs will line up perfectly.

so your saying is the rx330-rx400h 04-09 will fit the 08 rx350? hmm.. I really am looking for just decent projector headlights for HIDs wihtou AFS nor auto level. The car didnt equip with AFS so no need to get AFS then right?

This is what I came across over my searches but its way too pricey.

http://jdmautolights...a48c1391989c7cd

And this one from ebay but too good to be true. Half off from the link above. but the first one is fancy looking dunno how the output will look.

http://www.ebay.com/...ssories&vxp=mtr

wondering anyone out there who bought or upgraded willing to help me find decent Projector headlights for my vehicle. greatly appreciated.

I have successfully converted 3 LS400 models to HID, a 91, 92 and a 95. A Ford E350 24' MH, a 78 Porsche Targa. an '88 Porsche Carrera, all using hi/lo HID upgrade/adapter/retrofit kits. In the case of the '78 I upgraded to projector type HID that uses, internally, a electric solenoid to moves a low cutoff shading apperture into position for low beam mode.

Due to space limitations within the Porsche headlight "buckets" I had to use the "micro" ballasts.

None of these conversions resulted in any additional level of light "splatter", and in most cases the low beam cutoff was much sharper that with the OEM halogens.

[The G Man]

The 1st set is oem, you will have to find a way to disable the auto leveler and aim the light. The 2nd set is aftermarket and for halogen bulbs, so there is no leveler but you cannot use oem bulb, you will need to use re-based HID kits. Also, the projector is design for halogen so the beam pattern will be off a bit, but it is not a big deal.

[jaswood]

Not exact, but this is the retrofit kit type/style I installed in my '01 Porsche C4. The C4 had factory projector type hi/lo HID headlamps. The OEM system worked with the apperture shading always in place but with a motorized upward shift of the entire assembly in high beam mode.

"Flipping" the shading apperture out of the beam pattern path offers a much brighter beam pattern illumination area.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/G8-HID-Bi-xenon-Projector-Lens-Kit-H4-H1-H7-H13-9004-9007-9005-9006-4300K-6000K-/110822128863?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19cd837cdf

[vietxtcboi6]

if i'd had the time and money i would retrofit the headlights. for now i dont have the time and so there for i dont want to screw up and make things worser than it may seem to do them myself. Im not cheap nor im rich but one head light assembly i saw oem with projector was 600$. Geez crise. thats someone sky rocket. I just need some projector lens that has a good lighting output for long distance trips.

what a headache.. way too many choices and im starting to get confused even more when i think about it lol....

ebay? factory oem? ebay? oem? other sources? ahh geez...

[vietxtcboi6]

Depo headlights are supposed to be good. im not sure if those ebay ones are legit depo or fakes. but most of the time they are fake. and the fake ones are a hit or a miss. sometimes you get lucky and they actually have good output. sometimes you get "ok" and get some black spots on the output. sometimes you get terrible and have lights worse than reflectors.

you are right.. i read alot and ebay products are hit and a miss.. lucky or not it sucks to receive the hit one after waiting awhile. then having to return for the right now one. but then again.. you pay what you get. aww geez...

[The G Man]

Why not find a good stereo or accessory shop and have them do it.

[vietxtcboi6]

Why not find a good stereo or accessory shop and have them do it.

i thought of that. buying my own parts and having them installed. one thing though, around here, i tried calling many places and asked them if they do any retrofitting on headlights with parts provided. Answer. NO! I was bummed out after calling many places radius 30miles.

Wish there was a place that could do this job and know what their doing would make my life easier. Western Michigan sucks!

Here is links where I had found that would retrofit in the Eastern States. But dunno how good they are. If anyone had dealt with them please lemme know about price and quality.

http://www.lightwerkz.net/

New Jersey

http://blackflamecustoms.com/

New York

http://www.facebook.com/LIGHTMODZ

NOrth New Jersey

http://www.customlightz.com/

Virginia

Oh, here is the website that link these retrofitters businesses.

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/

[cduluk]

Actually, you can do an HID projector conversion without any issues. Simply purchase a pair of used 04-09 RX330/350/400h headlights in the HID projector type (the RX comes with 3 different options for headlights). It'll take some custom wiring (to wire the ballasts), but the HID projector type headlights will be a direct fit into your RX350 ie: the tabs will line up perfectly.

so your saying is the rx330-rx400h 04-09 will fit the 08 rx350? hmm.. I really am looking for just decent projector headlights for HIDs wihtou AFS nor auto level. The car didnt equip with AFS so no need to get AFS then right?

This is what I came across over my searches but its way too pricey.

http://jdmautolights...a48c1391989c7cd

And this one from ebay but too good to be true. Half off from the link above. but the first one is fancy looking dunno how the output will look.

http://www.ebay.com/...ssories&vxp=mtr

wondering anyone out there who bought or upgraded willing to help me find decent Projector headlights for my vehicle. greatly appreciated.

First of all, the headlights in the first link you posted are NOT oem, they are completely, 100% aftermarket. I've actually been in contact with the manufacturer of these, and unfortunately the performance of the light output is VERY poor (they sent me pictures). These have auto-leveling, HID, but no AFS. It uses a single HID bulb through those smaller projector lenses, which is why the output it so bad. And the price of these is astronomical, i think they quoted me in the $1,500 usd range.

And the headlights in the second link you posted are also aftermarket, and the likelihood they wont condensate is very slim- not to mention how faded the lenses will become. And the quality of the projectors is not going to be very good either. And the price isn't special either...

I'd suggest you purchase a used pair of oem headlights (in the HID, auto-leveling, no AFS version) from an 04-09 RX330/350/400h as they will 100% be a direct replacement to yours on your 08 Rx350. Lexus never changed the attachment points, not a single bit. And all three versions of the headlights are the same size and have the same attachment points- they are all interchangeable with each other.

I suggest this because the quality is the best you'll find. Ebay sells them very often, and you should be able to pick up a pair (or get them separately) for around $100/each. I'll help you with the installation, in any way i can from here! It's actually not that hard once you have the headlights complete with the factory ballasts and bulbs.

And i wouldn't suggest a projector "retrofit" mod of your current headlights; i've done many and it's not very easy! Based on what you want, i think the route i described above is the best option.

[vietxtcboi6]

Actually, you can do an HID projector conversion without any issues. Simply purchase a pair of used 04-09 RX330/350/400h headlights in the HID projector type (the RX comes with 3 different options for headlights). It'll take some custom wiring (to wire the ballasts), but the HID projector type headlights will be a direct fit into your RX350 ie: the tabs will line up perfectly.

so your saying is the rx330-rx400h 04-09 will fit the 08 rx350? hmm.. I really am looking for just decent projector headlights for HIDs wihtou AFS nor auto level. The car didnt equip with AFS so no need to get AFS then right?

This is what I came across over my searches but its way too pricey.

http://jdmautolights...a48c1391989c7cd

And this one from ebay but too good to be true. Half off from the link above. but the first one is fancy looking dunno how the output will look.

http://www.ebay.com/...ssories&vxp=mtr

wondering anyone out there who bought or upgraded willing to help me find decent Projector headlights for my vehicle. greatly appreciated.

First of all, the headlights in the first link you posted are NOT oem, they are completely, 100% aftermarket. I've actually been in contact with the manufacturer of these, and unfortunately the performance of the light output is VERY poor (they sent me pictures). These have auto-leveling, HID, but no AFS. It uses a single HID bulb through those smaller projector lenses, which is why the output it so bad. And the price of these is astronomical, i think they quoted me in the $1,500 usd range.

And the headlights in the second link you posted are also aftermarket, and the likelihood they wont condensate is very slim- not to mention how faded the lenses will become. And the quality of the projectors is not going to be very good either. And the price isn't special either...

I'd suggest you purchase a used pair of oem headlights (in the HID, auto-leveling, no AFS version) from an 04-09 RX330/350/400h as they will 100% be a direct replacement to yours on your 08 Rx350. Lexus never changed the attachment points, not a single bit. And all three versions of the headlights are the same size and have the same attachment points- they are all interchangeable with each other.

I suggest this because the quality is the best you'll find. Ebay sells them very often, and you should be able to pick up a pair (or get them separately) for around $100/each. I'll help you with the installation, in any way i can from here! It's actually not that hard once you have the headlights complete with the factory ballasts and bulbs.

And i wouldn't suggest a projector "retrofit" mod of your current headlights; i've done many and it's not very easy! Based on what you want, i think the route i described above is the best option.

I appreciate your answer and have decided to go your path. I honestly think all these aftermarket products will eventually, have defects and doesn't last as long.

Therefore, ebay has so many items with auto-leveling non AFS, but why are them headlights so expensive (due to the fact its OEM, but still)?

I am really sorry if this thread is bugging everyone, but I am happy that I finally found an answer to my decision.

Now, its Headlight Projector Hunting Time!! (Hmm, where to start)