Just Re-Elect Me !

[gabep]

Lenore, you are wasting your time on closed minds.

Have a great day.

[pj8708]

Sometimes common sense doesnt require a deluge of explanations and superficious words.

I think the biggest issue is that your posts seem to parrot rants from a variety of angry chain letters. They don't seem to be based on your own experiences. To persuade people you really need explanations and they need to be in your own words - explanations based on your own reasoning ... not somebody else's.

that is the typical belief by many, however When I talk to friends, neighbors, and aquatances, the belief is the same that the country is headed in the wrong direction. Yes I read the chain letters etc. however your side does the same when putting blame on opposite views. Those are only inputs to the general feeling of so many in this nation. Frankly I do not affiliate with either party now, I look at whom will make this country move back to the center and cause a more positive change which is really needed right now. I personally want the old guard out, and have new ideas which are constructive to making this country great. Not a counter culturalism ran by Socialist, whom feel government is the solution to all that ails them. People need to accept responsibility for their own lives, and make our representatives move toward that cause. Americans are truely spoiled, and need to tighten their belts and role up their sleeves and take hold of their lives. Funny immigrants (legal) feel we are still truely the land of opportunity. Too bad the folks on Government dole dont feel the same. Misery grows misery, and that is what our society has moved towards. I believe we are still truely the greatest nation in the world and our capitalism is what made it that way. I have been in countries where that is not the case. Top of the morning to everyone.

Again, can you please be specific !

When you claim that the current administration is Socialist and is/has turned the country towards/into a Socialist state, what specific actions or laws or new legislation have they enacted that have made it that way. I get that in your opinion, you feel the country is headed in the wrong direction, but where are the incidences that uphold the Socialist claim?

You talk disdainfully about "the folks on the government dole". I assume you mean me, collecting Social Security and on Medicare. Or, as I've said before, my daughter on short-term unemployment. Yes, we are real dead beats sucking the government dry.

If you always feel the need to blame someone or some group, why not turn to Congress. THAT is where the power lies. Congress makes and passes the laws and programs for the country. The President only has the power to sign or veto, and then the Congress can override the veto.

[pj8708]

Lenore, you are wasting your time on closed minds.

Have a great day.

Probably both sides feel the same way. Good thing we like our Lexus. LOL

Have a great day to you !

[lenore]

Sometimes common sense doesnt require a deluge of explanations and superficious words.

I think the biggest issue is that your posts seem to parrot rants from a variety of angry chain letters. They don't seem to be based on your own experiences. To persuade people you really need explanations and they need to be in your own words - explanations based on your own reasoning ... not somebody else's.

that is the typical belief by many, however When I talk to friends, neighbors, and aquatances, the belief is the same that the country is headed in the wrong direction. Yes I read the chain letters etc. however your side does the same when putting blame on opposite views. Those are only inputs to the general feeling of so many in this nation. Frankly I do not affiliate with either party now, I look at whom will make this country move back to the center and cause a more positive change which is really needed right now. I personally want the old guard out, and have new ideas which are constructive to making this country great. Not a counter culturalism ran by Socialist, whom feel government is the solution to all that ails them. People need to accept responsibility for their own lives, and make our representatives move toward that cause. Americans are truely spoiled, and need to tighten their belts and role up their sleeves and take hold of their lives. Funny immigrants (legal) feel we are still truely the land of opportunity. Too bad the folks on Government dole dont feel the same. Misery grows misery, and that is what our society has moved towards. I believe we are still truely the greatest nation in the world and our capitalism is what made it that way. I have been in countries where that is not the case. Top of the morning to everyone.

Again, can you please be specific !

When you claim that the current administration is Socialist and is/has turned the country towards/into a Socialist state, what specific actions or laws or new legislation have they enacted that have made it that way. I get that in your opinion, you feel the country is headed in the wrong direction, but where are the incidences that uphold the Socialist claim?

You talk disdainfully about "the folks on the government dole". I assume you mean me, collecting Social Security and on Medicare. Or, as I've said before, my daughter on short-term unemployment. Yes, we are real dead beats sucking the government dry.

If you always feel the need to blame someone or some group, why not turn to Congress. THAT is where the power lies. Congress makes and passes the laws and programs for the country. The President only has the power to sign or veto, and then the Congress can override the veto.

Examples are part ownership of GM, Fannie May, Freddie Mack. Health care. As for on the dole I mean the 5 generations still on welfare which has failed the very people it is suppose to help. As for Congress, yes agree totally, however look at Obama's direct order for such things as housing yesterday to buy more voters...blaming it all on Congress for not enacting further tarp, which failed to correct this economy. As for unemployment, yes needed, but the extensions have caused people to quit looking for jobs as reported on all of the networks. What the government did with our banking industry is truely a direct move on banks...THey should have been allowed to fail....But the Administration as well as Bush didnt want that to happen....

[pj8708]

Sometimes common sense doesnt require a deluge of explanations and superficious words.

I think the biggest issue is that your posts seem to parrot rants from a variety of angry chain letters. They don't seem to be based on your own experiences. To persuade people you really need explanations and they need to be in your own words - explanations based on your own reasoning ... not somebody else's.

that is the typical belief by many, however When I talk to friends, neighbors, and aquatances, the belief is the same that the country is headed in the wrong direction. Yes I read the chain letters etc. however your side does the same when putting blame on opposite views. Those are only inputs to the general feeling of so many in this nation. Frankly I do not affiliate with either party now, I look at whom will make this country move back to the center and cause a more positive change which is really needed right now. I personally want the old guard out, and have new ideas which are constructive to making this country great. Not a counter culturalism ran by Socialist, whom feel government is the solution to all that ails them. People need to accept responsibility for their own lives, and make our representatives move toward that cause. Americans are truely spoiled, and need to tighten their belts and role up their sleeves and take hold of their lives. Funny immigrants (legal) feel we are still truely the land of opportunity. Too bad the folks on Government dole dont feel the same. Misery grows misery, and that is what our society has moved towards. I believe we are still truely the greatest nation in the world and our capitalism is what made it that way. I have been in countries where that is not the case. Top of the morning to everyone.

Again, can you please be specific !

When you claim that the current administration is Socialist and is/has turned the country towards/into a Socialist state, what specific actions or laws or new legislation have they enacted that have made it that way. I get that in your opinion, you feel the country is headed in the wrong direction, but where are the incidences that uphold the Socialist claim?

You talk disdainfully about "the folks on the government dole". I assume you mean me, collecting Social Security and on Medicare. Or, as I've said before, my daughter on short-term unemployment. Yes, we are real dead beats sucking the government dry.

If you always feel the need to blame someone or some group, why not turn to Congress. THAT is where the power lies. Congress makes and passes the laws and programs for the country. The President only has the power to sign or veto, and then the Congress can override the veto.

Examples are part ownership of GM, Fannie May, Freddie Mack. Health care. As for on the dole I mean the 5 generations still on welfare which has failed the very people it is suppose to help. As for Congress, yes agree totally, however look at Obama's direct order for such things as housing yesterday to buy more voters...blaming it all on Congress for not enacting further tarp, which failed to correct this economy. As for unemployment, yes needed, but the extensions have caused people to quit looking for jobs as reported on all of the networks. What the government did with our banking industry is truly a direct move on banks...THey should have been allowed to fail....But the Administration as well as Bush didn't want that to happen....

Well, as you might have already predicted, I disagree with your arguments. Especially as they pertain to letting the banks fail, the healthcare legislation bill, and the new housing refinance program. I assume you don't know anyone who's upside down with their mortgage through no fault of their own. (Not everyone is on the dole.) Given the length of this thread and the voracity with which it has been waged, it is obvious we'll never agree on too much of anything political. I do believe that "GABEP" is incorrect in saying those of us who disagree are "closed minded and wasting your time" The FREE exchange of ideas, the expression of strong opinions, regardless of how out of the mainstream someone may think they are, is just the very thing we are arguing about. What is best for our country and maintaining our freedom of speech without censorship. Before today and last night, I never viewed the current affairs of the day through your lens. Again, I don't see them the same way. But , you can bet as we go through the upcoming campaign I will think of them and measure each candidate by some of your beliefs. Close minded?...I hope I'm not that shallow.

[1990LS400]

What the government did with our banking industry is truely a direct move on banks...THey should have been allowed to fail....But the Administration as well as Bush didnt want that to happen....

Who do you think comes out ahead the most when a bank fails? Who do you think loses the most when a bank fails?

[SW03ES]

What the government did with our banking industry is truely a direct move on banks...THey should have been allowed to fail....But the Administration as well as Bush didnt want that to happen....

Did you read George W Bush's "Decision Points"? Because I did. I can tell you, unless he lied in his book, you are absolutely wrong about him wanting these banks to fail, and he took action to stop it...actually the largest moves to stop it, while he was President.

And again, you keep mentioning health care. Please tell us what in this healthcare bill is going to "tear down" this country, and why?

My problem with you Lenore is, like Jim said...there are none of your thoughts or your words behind your rhetoric. Tell me why YOU don't like the Healthcare bill, not what Bill O'Reilly told you not to like. What specific parts of it do you not agree with?

I can appreciate your "gut instinct" and "world experience" guiding your viewpoints, but this is a complex world and a complex time. We need people in office that have more than "gut instinct", and as an American you, me, we all have a responsibility to educate ourselves about these proposals and plans and form our own viewpoint. I would venture to say, you have never even read or looked into any of these bills. Because Obama wants to do it...you are automatically opposed.

I'm going to share something with you:

This graph is from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, this shows total private sector employment (no government jobs are included in this) broken down from Jan '08 until today. I think you must agree, this graph shows a decided improvement in the area of private sector employment. I think, if you would open your mind up and tune out the far right rhetoric you would see that this economy IS FAR better today than it was last year, and the year before that. Yes it has a long way to go, but its headed in the right direction. I think again, if you would push past the rhetoric you'd see this President has done a good bit.

You rail against the plan Obama rolled out yesterday to help underwater homeowners refinance. Can you please tell us what in that plan is going to "tear down" this country and this economy? Specifics please.

[lenore]

I believe that most people once slanted to their view can never objectively see the other side. It either takes financial hardship, or lost of one's freedom or some catrosphic event to make them see the other side. I am geared to problem solving, and use the basic concept to accomplish this of 1. stating the problem 2. brainstorming ideas for a solution 3. enacting the best solution 4. monitoring results 5. if failed going back to step 2 and continue this process until problem is resolved. Obama has shown us he is not a problem solver. He just loves to speak and campaign... And repeat the same old solution which has failed. I want new ideas, one that achieve solutions that improve the economy, not ones that head us to an economy based only on government control and loss of basic rights.

The graph above is encouraging, but how many of those jobs are temporary, or part time? I suspect a great deal of them are part time or temporary. Would really be interesting to see how they count those jobs. As for government jobs the loss's are predominantly at the local area's not at the Federal area. Local governments lost around 34% versus fed of only around 3%. Also do they count government contract jobs as private or Federal....? Statistically remember these numbers are meant to imply gains, than why do even the far left as well as right consider our economy to being doing so poorly... Jobs is the highest dicussion by everyone...Unemployment in the 9plus percent range is not something to be proud of. Something stinks with those charts, because why is that percentage so high when complared to previous years..?

[SW03ES]

And, unsurprisingly, you answered none of my questions. The answer is...you don't know anything about the healthcare bill, or about the President's proposal to help underwater homeowners refinance their mortgages, and therefore your opposition to these measures is because they were proposed by someone you hate.

THAT is what is anti-American my friend.

[lenore]

From what I understand and what the congessional budget committee has stated it (Obamas health care) will substantially raise cost, it will cover half of the 46 million proposed and basically cut some coverage of the present medicare system. Here is a good read on it:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/10/the-obama-health-care-plan-a-closer-look-at-cost-and-coverage

As for the Mortage bailout, that will only cover those that are less than 125% real value, and they have to be up to date in their payments. It will be a very small number that qualify compared to the overall problem...It still does not address the real problem of Banks sitting on Short sales, which is stopping first time and invester buyers from stimulating the economy. The next waive of failure are coming and it is estimated that it will be around 10million more forclosures. The jobs market is very dependent on the housing industry recovering. The problem with this administration that it really doesnt know how to get out of this mess.

Back to the health care there are so many tagged hidden taxes that are going to pop up in the next two years trying to cover this thing it could send the economy into a deeper recession. Real healthcare reform would have been to attack the culprits of cost, such as tort reform, too many middle men (insurance coverage which is out of control), And take on more cost effective systems that can reduce duplexity of billing etc. I know Kaiser Foundation and Kaiser Hospitals are one of the most efficient in terms of controlling cost as well as paperwork. Their are a lot of model systems in the United States which could have saved us a lot of money. IBM offered a solution to the Obama Administration that was touted to be able to save a trillion dollars in cost if enacted.

As for your last statement of being Anti-American that is a slap in the face, consider your statement carefully, I dont HATE OBAMA, I just feel his administration as well as his goals are truely Anti-American as well as Socialistic, which is supported by his unwillingness to allow the Capatilist to correct this economy. Everywhere Big government has stepped in has cost us Americans billions, and not solved a thing. Just kicking the can down the road, and hoping the future generations will survive. The elitist minority have taken power, and got their way the first two years...America woke up and is trying to swing back to the middle road before it is too late. The 2010 elections are the real report card on his administration...Hopefully we get some decent candidates for 2012 and level headed Real Americans correct the bad decision in 2008. Personally I would like to see the Democratic party can him and put somebody more moderate in like Hillary. It was a great experiment, which has never been successful in the world, and hopefully this movement will get rid of THE european style socialist that are in office now.

[lenore]

I can appreciate your "gut instinct" and "world experience" guiding your viewpoints, but this is a complex world and a complex time. We need people in office that have more than "gut instinct", and as an American you, me, we all have a responsibility to educate ourselves about these proposals and plans and form our own viewpoint. I would venture to say, you have never even read or looked into any of these bills. Because Obama wants to do it...you are automatically opposed.

Tell me have you read the 2741 page bill, Neither has our Congress. Also the directives in the bill will increase that paper to 10 times. Just like a tax code, so that Americans cannot grasp what the real purpose was, or being capable of hiding all kinds of tax increases etc. It is like trying to find flycrap in the pepper barrel. I do rely on independent groups to decifer the garbage and bring out the good and bad points. Most of it is written in legalize that the general lay person has a hard time understanding, hince we rely on folks that do that for a living.

I dont believe either Jim, you, or I will ever agree on this administration, however I hope the majority in this nation do not feel the same as you two do...Nitpicking, instead of looking at the big picture, and seeing where we are headed in this administration....repeating history and not learning from its mistakes.

[SW03ES]

From what I understand and what the congessional budget committee has stated it (Obamas health care) will substantially raise cost, it will cover half of the 46 million proposed and basically cut some coverage of the present medicare system. Here is a good read on it:

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/10/the-obama-health-care-plan-a-closer-look-at-cost-and-coverage

This was Obama's healthcare plan during the campaign, the article is dated October 2008. This is VERY different than the actual bill that has passed (bears almost no resemblance). You should do research into the actual bill.

As for the Mortage bailout, that will only cover those that are less than 125% real value, and they have to be up to date in their payments. It will be a very small number that qualify compared to the overall problem...It still does not address the real problem of Banks sitting on Short sales, which is stopping first time and invester buyers from stimulating the economy. The next waive of failure are coming and it is estimated that it will be around 10million more forclosures. The jobs market is very dependent on the housing industry recovering.

But...a solution that addresses some of the problem is still a beneficial solution, even if it doesn't help everybody right?

Part of the point of that legislation is that it is directed at people who are current on their payments but simply can't refinance because they are underwater on their mortgages. The goal is to avoid strategic default, people who can afford their payments who simply choose to foreclose because they are trapped in an underwater asset at a high rate, and cannot restructure it. This is a HUGE problem, and its an entirely different problem than homeowners who are already in default, that becomes a short sale or loan modification issue...and those problems are addressed in other pieces of legislation.

The problem with this administration that it really doesnt know how to get out of this mess.

Which is a situation we're all in. NOBODY knows a clear path out of this mess.

Back to the health care there are so many tagged hidden taxes that are going to pop up in the next two years trying to cover this thing it could send the economy into a deeper recession.

Which hidden taxes?

Here's an article stating that according to the CBO repealing the healthcare bill would INCREASE the defecit but $230B because of the deficit reduction measures it includes:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/06/cbo-health-care-repeal-deficit_n_805192.htm

Real healthcare reform would have been to attack the culprits of cost, such as tort reform, too many middle men (insurance coverage which is out of control), And take on more cost effective systems that can reduce duplexity of billing etc.

I think those are components of reform, but not a totality of what is needed for real healthcare reform.

IBM offered a solution to the Obama Administration that was touted to be able to save a trillion dollars in cost if enacted.

Just because something is touted to do something doesn't mean that it will actually do something.

As for your last statement of being Anti-American that is a slap in the face

Yes, it was a slap in the face...but it got me to get you to actually talk and think...so I guess it worked.These posts are about the most intelligent and thoughtful I have *ever* seen you post on this subject, and I'm happy to have a debate with this lenore.

What you, and everybody else have to understand is that we are in a situation in this country that was not the fault of one person, nor is it something one person can reverse. I think the stimulus has helped, I think we probably need more, I think providing options for people who face foreclosure is huge, I think providing options for young people with burdensome student loan debt is huge, I think creating good paying jobs that get people back to work is huge. But, one man doesn't "create" jobs, but I think he's done about as well as someone dealt the cards he was dealt could have done. If you compare his platform to other liberal Presidents you'll see that he's no more "extreme" than any of them. What I think he does lack is presence of leadership, I think frankly he fails to control congress, fails to control his own Administration's message.

I do however stand by my prediction that he'll be re-elected. If the Republicans could get better organized they would have a shot, if you look at the field there is only one man there I could vote for...Mitt Romney. All the rest of them are too radical, too religious. The problem with Romney is he has shown that he will do or say anything he needs to in order to get elected, you don't really have a clear idea of what he actually believes in. In the end, I don't think he will get the nomination, but I think he's the only person on that stage that moderates like me that move back and forth between the parties could vote for.

So...I think you're going to have to put up with 4 more years.

[lenore]

i unfortunately think that there are enough folks in the highly populated areas that rely on Government for their livelyhoods that by electoriate vote we give him a very good chance at re-election. Totally stupid by my thinking when unemployment is so high, and the next hammer is going to hit with the debt ceiling. His green jobs have been a farce as well as his shovel ready...Completely short term, and we still have a mess. The solution is to get the private industry rolling again. My only hope is that the Senate becomes more central...blocking him and maybe making his administration move like Clinton did, which is to the center....

[pj8708]

i unfortunately think that there are enough folks in the highly populated areas that rely on Government for their livelyhoods that by electoriate vote we give him a very good chance at re-election. Totally stupid by my thinking when unemployment is so high, and the next hammer is going to hit with the debt ceiling. His green jobs have been a farce as well as his shovel ready...Completely short term, and we still have a mess. The solution is to get the private industry rolling again. My only hope is that the Senate becomes more central...blocking him and maybe making his administration move like Clinton did, which is to the center....

I'm not sure whats going on, but this paragraph Lenore makes no sense. Literally. I don't mean ideologically, it is just gibberish.

This has been a discussion and argument between myself, you, Steve and Jim for the most part. At this point it is just you and Steve. I agree with Steve's positions and unfortunately the one person who was sharing your views apparently got mad and went home.

Everyone had said their piece and staked out their territory. Anything else to be said will be just plowing the same ground OVER and OVER again. So, time for the four of us to move on? We can wait for the next topic (I started this mess) which will come along soon enough I hope. I enjoy a constructive banter.

Enough?

[LEXIRX330]

Awhhh....I was just getting ready to join in! :)

Seriously though one of my biggest problems with Obama's healthcare bill is simply he has done nothing to address the rising cost of health insurance. There are loads of problems with the health insurance AND health care industry. But the reason that there are so many uninsured is that the premiums are so high. I have had a load of small group policies that have canceled because they can't afford it. What in Obama's health care bill addressees increasing cost of health insurance? Did he try to address his "attorney" friends by actually addressing tort reform as he said he would? Nope.

I have met with delagates and senators regarding the healthcare bill. Up until last year served as President of our local NAIFA chapter. None of these people have a clue what is in the bill but they all understand that you can not expect the insurance companies to cover everything and accept everyone....and not see premiums go up. Which is what happened to 100% of the groups 2 years ago that I insured. The problem with healthcare is simple people can't afford it...and those who can are paying for everyone else!

[pj8708]

Awhhh....I was just getting ready to join in! :)

Seriously though one of my biggest problems with Obama's healthcare bill is simply he has done nothing to address the rising cost of health insurance. There are loads of problems with the health insurance AND health care industry. But the reason that there are so many uninsured is that the premiums are so high. I have had a load of small group policies that have canceled because they can't afford it. What in Obama's health care bill addressees increasing cost of health insurance? Did he try to address his "attorney" friends by actually addressing tort reform as he said he would? Nope.

I have met with delagates and senators regarding the healthcare bill. Up until last year served as President of our local NAIFA chapter. None of these people have a clue what is in the bill but they all understand that you can not expect the insurance companies to cover everything and accept everyone....and not see premiums go up. Which is what happened to 100% of the groups 2 years ago that I insured. The problem with healthcare is simple people can't afford it...and those who can are paying for everyone else!

aaaand their off!! LOL

(Chapter 2 in a series.)

[LEXIRX330]

Well I am not at work and I figured I would keep this thread going! lol

[SW03ES]

i unfortunately think that there are enough folks in the highly populated areas that rely on Government for their livelyhoods that by electoriate vote we give him a very good chance at re-election. Totally stupid by my thinking when unemployment is so high, and the next hammer is going to hit with the debt ceiling. His green jobs have been a farce as well as his shovel ready...Completely short term, and we still have a mess. The solution is to get the private industry rolling again. My only hope is that the Senate becomes more central...blocking him and maybe making his administration move like Clinton did, which is to the center....

Lenore, unemployment is not high because of Obama. There is nothing that a Republican President can do that is going to reduce unemployment overnight either. We're recovering from a terrible global recession, the cause of which was not Obama. Unemployment has been higher than this, and we've survived. We will this time too. According to the graph I showed you, private sector employment is up since he took office, and it shows a strong correlation between the stimulus, and the slowing of job loss and the beginning of job creation. Lots of US companies are posting strong earning reports. The private sector is beginning to roll again, you just have to give it time.

"the next hammer if going to hit with the debt ceiling"? What does that even mean? Despite the hoopla, raising the debt ceiling is a procedural thing that has been done many times in the past. Ronald Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times...Bush raised it 7 times. Obama has raised it...3 times. Obviously we have to get these deficits under control...but defaulting on our debt is not a solution. We need to stop adding additional debt, and come up with a plan to pay off the debt we have, just like a family does. Were you raised in such a way that you were taught that simply defaulting on your obligations is a viable option? I certainly wasn't.

Seriously though one of my biggest problems with Obama's healthcare bill is simply he has done nothing to address the rising cost of health insurance. There are loads of problems with the health insurance AND health care industry. But the reason that there are so many uninsured is that the premiums are so high. I have had a load of small group policies that have canceled because they can't afford it. What in Obama's health care bill addressees increasing cost of health insurance? Did he try to address his "attorney" friends by actually addressing tort reform as he said he would? Nope

I don't disagree. I think they planned on a public option providing cost control, and when it became impossible to pass such a measure they had no backup plan.

[lenore]

i unfortunately think that there are enough folks in the highly populated areas that rely on Government for their livelyhoods that by electoriate vote we give him a very good chance at re-election. Totally stupid by my thinking when unemployment is so high, and the next hammer is going to hit with the debt ceiling. His green jobs have been a farce as well as his shovel ready...Completely short term, and we still have a mess. The solution is to get the private industry rolling again. My only hope is that the Senate becomes more central...blocking him and maybe making his administration move like Clinton did, which is to the center....

I'm not sure whats going on, but this paragraph Lenore makes no sense. Literally. I don't mean ideologically, it is just gibberish.

This has been a discussion and argument between myself, you, Steve and Jim for the most part. At this point it is just you and Steve. I agree with Steve's positions and unfortunately the one person who was sharing your views apparently got mad and went home.

Everyone had said their piece and staked out their territory. Anything else to be said will be just plowing the same ground OVER and OVER again. So, time for the four of us to move on? We can wait for the next topic (I started this mess) which will come along soon enough I hope. I enjoy a constructive banter.

Enough?

I was agreeing with Steve that unfortunately because of the electorate and heavy population areas that generally are Democratic, he may well get elected again. our only hope is if the Senate falls to a Republican majority or at least a number that makes negoitiating more promising. A super majority by either party kills everything.

[SW03ES]

The only part we disagree about is the "unfortunately". I'm not 100% sold on voting for him again, I think he's failed to live up to his potential in a number of ways...but like I said I don't see any Republican running I could vote for but Romney, and my fear about him is that he's such a spineless worm.

See, I think what made the Clinton era work even with the opposing congress was the fact that Clinton made it clear that he was willing to take it to the brink for what he believed in, and I think after the Government shutdown Newt Gingrich and the Republicans respected him for that on some level. The problem is that Obama has rolled over for the Republicans so many times, and gone to such lengths to try and appease them (speaker of the house denying the President's request to speak to a joint session...AND HE CAVED? Come on!), thats what has caused this "party of no" thing going on with the Republicans. Why should they say yes? He'll eventually just cave. Its that lack of any kind of cooperation that caused our debt to be downgraded...and its the fault of both sides, the Republicans for being self serving and politically driven (but thats who they are) and the President for rolling over and taking it up the pooper one too many times.

Here's a question for you though Lenore, you say that the heavy population areas are generally Democratic and not Republican. Why do you suppose that is?

[lenore]

You know steve look carefully, I believe the Democrats acted the same when they had the majority, They would not even bring the bills to vote. Harry Reid on the Senate side refused to even put the bills on the floor. Talk about party of no. And then when Obama had his committees he completely ignored their findings when it came to budget reform.

Both parties are the party of no, because they wont put things on the floor and vote.

[SW03ES]

You know steve look carefully, I believe the Democrats acted the same when they had the majority, They would not even bring the bills to vote. Harry Reid on the Senate side refused to even put the bills on the floor. Talk about party of no. And then when Obama had his committees he completely ignored their findings when it came to budget reform.

Both parties are the party of no, because they wont put things on the floor and vote.

I'm not saying they didn't. What I said was its a culture of non-cooperation that both sides are to blame for.

[gabep]

I didn't go away mad. I went away because it was a non-starter with the believers in the Messiah.

I just have one comment on the cooperation in the congress. When Pelosi said "You have to pass it [health care bill] to see what is in it" that pretty well drew the line in the sand.

Now I am gone.

[SW03ES]

I was just happy you went away...not really worried about why. I have zero use for bigoted racists. Happy to discuss and debate with Lenore...but not with you.

[lenore]

I really dont feel he is bigoted or a racist (Gabep). It is very sad and I feel you demean yourself using that stance which is very atypical of the left when someone disagrees with Obama or his Administration... You know when we all quit distingushing groups to be special, especially since we have passed a lot of laws eliminating inequality it would be so much more positive to just call us Americans...With different views of the political issues. The only sad part is that the Party That continues to get support from these groups are nothing more than governmental slaves to what can the government give me. I find that disgusting and very demeaning to my fellow Americans. THe Jessee Jacksons, Al Sharpton crowd need to go bye bye, and allow the younger folks whom see themselves differently to excell, and get out of this racial rut. Thank goodness there are a lot of fantastic people that have excelled past these entrapments, our former secretary of State,Colin Powell, comedian like Bill Cosby, Herman Cain, the list goes on. These are folks that should be looked up to. One of my best friends, A Nigerian told me he just doesnt understand the likes of people constantly calling the Race Card. He has felt this nation is truely the greatest nation on earth and has unbounded opportunities, I just cant work like him, he holds three teaching jobs, and holds a Master degree in Civil Engineering, all which he paid for himself by welding on oil rigs off the coast of Nigeria...