Es 350 What Is A Good Price.

[pj8708]

Couple of quick questions. Looked at a 2010 ES 350 today, about $42,000. Has a Premium package with Nav. & Levinson audio. Can you get the Navigation without the M.L. audio or do they have to come together? Also, the salesperson started with a $2,000 drop off the MSRP and offered $13,500 for my 05' ES 330 with 47300 miles. The 330 just had 4 new Michelin Primacy tires, a complete detail with all paint retouched, and I have all service records for it wich are from this dealer. What do you think of this offer?

[SW03ES]

Actually it is incredibly rare to see an ES with the ML audio that does not have the UL package. I have never seen one. Mine has the nav, but no ML and the MSRP was $41,215. Are you sure it has the ML audio?

I drove a few ULs with the ML audio, I actually prefer the base audio...but its not great.

I paid $35,000 for mine, so thats $6,215 off of MSRP. They used two of the Golden Opportunity $500 coupons to get me that price. I think I got about the absolute lowest price they could do and still make money. Invoice is about $36,500, so I was $1,500 or so under invoice. Lexus has a holdback of 2% of base MSRP, so thats $703.50, so they could sell the $41,215 car to you for $36,000 using no coupons and still make a tiny profit. Towards the end of a month a volume dealer will do that to get the unit. Dealers only got so many coupons, so you may have to shop for one who has them.

Are you paying cash or financing? They have 1.9% for 60 months now.

If I were you I would take your 330 out of the equation and deal just on the 350, then introduce the 330 back in. Got a carmax anywhere nearby? I'd take the 330 there and get a quote. Its too hard to know if thats a good deal on the 350...

BUT, a $2,000 drop in MSRP is terrible. The opening offer I got from a dealer with no effort at all was $37,500...so thats $3,715 off. UNLESS, they are giving you high end on the trade...which is why you should take it out of the negotiation for now.

Bear in mind that the 2011's come out next month...the last shipments of 2010s have sailed...

[pj8708]

Actually it is incredibly rare to see an ES with the ML audio that does not have the UL package. I have never seen one. Mine has the nav, but no ML and the MSRP was $41,215. Are you sure it has the ML audio?

I drove a few ULs with the ML audio, I actually prefer the base audio...but its not great.

I paid $35,000 for mine, so thats $6,215 off of MSRP. They used two of the Golden Opportunity $500 coupons to get me that price. I think I got about the absolute lowest price they could do and still make money. Invoice is about $36,500, so I was $1,500 or so under invoice. Lexus has a holdback of 2% of base MSRP, so thats $703.50, so they could sell the $41,215 car to you for $36,000 using no coupons and still make a tiny profit. Towards the end of a month a volume dealer will do that to get the unit. Dealers only got so many coupons, so you may have to shop for one who has them.

Are you paying cash or financing? They have 1.9% for 60 months now.

If I were you I would take your 330 out of the equation and deal just on the 350, then introduce the 330 back in. Got a carmax anywhere nearby? I'd take the 330 there and get a quote. Its too hard to know if thats a good deal on the 350...

BUT, a $2,000 drop in MSRP is terrible. The opening offer I got from a dealer with no effort at all was $37,500...so thats $3,715 off. UNLESS, they are giving you high end on the trade...which is why you should take it out of the negotiation for now.

Bear in mind that the 2011's come out next month...the last shipments of 2010s have sailed...

Is there anything you don't know???

I made a slip in not stating that the car I looked at was a UL, but the salesperson wasn't sure if you had to buy both the Nav and the M/L or if they could be seperate. I don't want the UL and I wasn't initially impressed with the Mark Levinson. I wonder if with the use of some replacement speakers and a amplifier and small sub I already have in my 330, I could improve the 350 base unit to a respectable level.

I found a website from Edmunds that is a chat board for current Lexus buyers. Most post show numbers just like you quoted. As recent as yesterday people had bought 350's for 36K to 35K and there from Phoenix, D.C. and Chicago. Living in a small metro area with only one Lexus dealer within 100 miles, the dealer has little incentive to bargin in an aggresive manner.

The thing that is bugging me the most is even if I can get the price I need should I wait for the 2011 and end up perhaps getting a better deal on a remaining 2010 or get a brand new 2011. But, the 2011 probably wont have anything new to offer would it?

And the beat goes on....

Thanks very much,

Paul

[SW03ES]

There are a COUPLE things I don't know :) LOL

A UL with an MSRP of $42k...you sure? The ULs here are all like $44k. They're a little more reluctant to deal on ULs I found because they are pretty rare. I like the UL a lot, like the wheels and the roof, but in the end it wasn't worth $3k to me. They had a nice Smokey Granite on grey UL at the dealer I bought mine from on the showroom floor...I did notice it was still there when I went by the other day to get my tags. This dealer had my car on the lot since May...so they do sit around.

The 2011 is going to be unchanged from the 2010, only difference is the 2011 only requires regular fuel. I figure the 2010 does too, its just a change in the manual. When you get into September the 2010s will all dissapear so you'll have no choice but to wait...personally I'd get a great deal now on a 2010.

You could always contact someone out of town too...

[pj8708]

I'm looking at a Black Shaphire/Parchment with nav. They don't have a Truffle in stock but do have the Smokey Granite. What I don't like about the UL is the top/contrast stiching and the inflated price. I would be happy with just the nav and the base 8 speaker audio. It is not elegant by any stretch, but as I said it can be tweeked.

I have copied down your pricing info. word for word and it has been incredibly helpfull. The ES above is 41,125 (this is from memory as I stoped by this noon with no pen) and I have left a voice mail with the rep regarding the $500 coupons.

My other fear in all this is buying a 2010 and in 14 months seeing a 2012 and wishing I had the newest body style! Once you have the car bug, there is no vaccination.

Paul

[jgilbert]

I purchased a 2010 ES with Nav but without Levinson for $35,750.

Couple of quick questions. Looked at a 2010 ES 350 today, about $42,000. Has a Premium package with Nav. & Levinson audio. Can you get the Navigation without the M.L. audio or do they have to come together? Also, the salesperson started with a $2,000 drop off the MSRP and offered $13,500 for my 05' ES 330 with 47300 miles. The 330 just had 4 new Michelin Primacy tires, a complete detail with all paint retouched, and I have all service records for it wich are from this dealer. What do you think of this offer?

[jgilbert]

In this economy (and with the problems facing Toyota) you should be negotiating below invoice, not MSRP.

[SW03ES]

The issues facing Toyota have all but evaporated, and for the most part people didn't really attribute them to Lexus...

Yeah the Nav car is $41,215 (you were pretty close) thats my car. You don't like the contrasting stitching? I actually really liked that.

The Smokey Granite is nice also, but doesn't come with the parchment, only black or grey. The grey has a lot of black, carpets, dash doors, and I wanted something really different than the black. The Black sapphire is nice!

[pj8708]

The issues facing Toyota have all but evaporated, and for the most part people didn't really attribute them to Lexus...

Yeah the Nav car is $41,215 (you were pretty close) thats my car. You don't like the contrasting stitching? I actually really liked that.

The Smokey Granite is nice also, but doesn't come with the parchment, only black or grey. The grey has a lot of black, carpets, dash doors, and I wanted something really different than the black. The Black sapphire is nice!

Thay also have the Peridot with parchment wich in a strange way, I find kind of intriging. But it is SO unique I'm afraid I am not that brave. I have the Chasmere interior on my 330 and like the color. You, Steve, had black and I can see why you would like the light,open air cabin feeling the Parchment color would add to the Truffle Mica.

Those of you lucky enough to have multiple dealers in your locations are to be envied. Even in this economy if you are the only dealer in the state and you also the dealer for Infinity, Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover & Cadillac, you pretty much have the corner on the market for luxury automobiles. Don't let me lead you astray, they do deal in a professional manner. However they do not need to offer the 10-11% dicounts that many of you have told me you have received in your negotiations.

Steve, when I click on your post I have to scrool all the way to the bottom of the page to read the next post/answer. This only seems to apply to your postings. Is this a format problem or just a quirk of your quick witted personality?

Paul

Thank you guys for you feedback. Please keep it comeing!

[LEXIRX330]

Why not call around you can buy from another dealer. I would start at 1k under invoice and see how close you can get to that. I am with SW wait until the end of the month maybe last couple of days make the low ball offer and see what happens. I made my deal in about 3 days and bought on the last day of the month. You should be able to get close to invoice. Good Luck!

Oh yea S. W. is the man behind the curtain the GREAT OZ! :)

[SW03ES]

Yeah I can't decide whether I like the Peridot or not. Its kinda army-esque in some light. I was worried I'd get bored of it...

I have heard that format problem from a few people. No idea! The formatting looks right to me.

You might want to try looking at the www.fletrates.com website...

Maybe I just like to stand out lol...

[pj8708]

Called 2 other dealers today to see if I could locate a ES350 at my price and configuration. I called a dealer in Omaha, Nebraska and they were willing to take 10% off MSRP and give $14,000 for my ES330 with 47600 miles. Only problem, they did not have the car I want but said they could get one. (Black Saphire Pearl/Parchment with Nav, Adaptive headlights, etc. $41,501). I also called a dealer in Davenport, Iowa (on the Mississippi). They too would discount 10% and use Golden Oportunity coupons if necessary. Alas, they did not have a car but could get one.

Tomorrow I'm going in to the local store and see how bad they to play "Lets Make a Deal!" I hope they play well with others.

New question. The car I want has Brigestone (Teraza?) tires on it. Sorry, not sure of the spelling. On July 23, I just put 4 new Michelin Primacy's on my 330 and am wondering if I should ask to swap tires as part of the deal. Or are the Bridgestones an acceptable tire for a quiet and soft ride.

Thanks for your input.

Paul

[SW03ES]

Make them show you the allocation tables that there is indeed a car like you want out there. Like I said, its the end of the model year and they will have to probably swap for one because the dealers are all getting their last shipments in. I had that issue in '03. I was talking to two dealers right around this time and they were $700 apart. Both didn't have the car but could get it. I went with the cheaper dealer who ordered the wrong interior color figuring I wouldn't care.

Luckily the other dealer had seen that the last 2003 garnet/black ES on the east coast was in her allocation (which she would have to give up, another dealer couldn't "take"it) and knew the cheaper guy could not possibly have a garnet/black coming or any way to get one. She put my name on it knowing I'd be back. We split the $700 which was big of her.

About the coupons, they should give you their best deal, THEN throw in the coupons to get you the deal you want. The coupons are free money, they can sell the car at a $500 loss and still make $500 if they use two coupons. They shouldn't "maybe" use golden opportunity coupons...its the Golden Opportunity sales event...they SHOULD use them. I'd offer them no more than $36,000 for the car and stay FIRM, they can do that with the coupons and still make $1,203.50 on the sale...which is good profit for an ES nowadays.

I also just got an email this morning from a dealer, Lexus has come out with a $1,000 coupon since dealers ran out of the $500 coupons. Can you use both if your dealer sill has $500 coupons?

Lexus is also supposed to have a $500 bonus for returning ES owners. They can't use that with the $500 coupons, but can they with the $1,000 coupon? Maybe...I'd ask...

[SW03ES]

Oh and for the tires, mine has the Bridgestones and they are just okay. They're very smooth, but they do have some low speed road noise that you don't have on the Michelins.

They don't do Primacys from the factory, but they do the MXV4 S8 which is not as good a tire as the Primacy, but better than the Bridgestone.

The Bridgestones also have a ...terrbile 240 treadwear rating and the Michelins are 440, so if the car you get doesn't have the Michelins, try and get them to swap. I picked mine up in the dark and the rain the day I got back from vacation and I didn't think to look until the next day and they wouldn't do a warranty swap after the fact. They're not so bad, but if I really threw a fit I bet they'd swap them for Michelins.

[peteanello]

Oh and for the tires, mine has the Bridgestones and they are just okay. They're very smooth, but they do have some low speed road noise that you don't have on the Michelins.

They don't do Primacys from the factory, but they do the MXV4 S8 which is not as good a tire as the Primacy, but better than the Bridgestone.

The Bridgestones also have a ...terrbile 240 treadwear rating and the Michelins are 440, so if the car you get doesn't have the Michelins, try and get them to swap. I picked mine up in the dark and the rain the day I got back from vacation and I didn't think to look until the next day and they wouldn't do a warranty swap after the fact. They're not so bad, but if I really threw a fit I bet they'd swap them for Michelins.

I see Costco now offers 8 different tires for the '09 ES (all "V" rated). When I checked a few months ago they only offered the 2 OEM's (Michelin MXV4S8 and the Bridgestone Turanza). Now they offer a Michelin Primacy ("V" rated). I wonder if that would be as quiet as the "H" rated Primacy?

[pj8708]

Well, I took everyones advice, made a plan, executed the plan, and bought the 2010 ES350 this morning. You folks have been so helpfull and it saved me money, quite a bit. So I thank you. I'm going to start a new post laying out the pricing I got for other future buyers referance. I'll talk more about the tires and the other thing that came up.

Paul

[SW03ES]

Congrats! Welcome to the club!

I don't think you'd notice any difference between the V and H rated Primacy, not worth the money to upgrade to the Vs IMHO.

[pj8708]

Went out for lunch today and afterwards, I had nothing else to do so I bought a new Lexus.

After putting to work all of your help and advice, I put together a plan, went back to the dealer and within 15 minutes they agreed to everything I asked for. It was impressive. I purchased the 2010 ES350 in Black Sapphire & Parchment with Nav, adaptive headlights and the rest of that package, @MSRP $41,502. I asked for $14,500 for my 05 ES330 trade. My net purchase price was $22,806. They used one Golden Opportunity $500 coupon. Here is what I had asked for: $41,500 minus 10% = 37,350. $1,000 coupons minus = $36,350. $14,500 minus trade = net purchase price of $21,850. $22,806 actual net price

$21,850 What I proposed

$ $956. difference

I know some people get hung up on how much the dealer made and trying to squeze every nickel out of the dealer. I don't care what the dealer makes. I only care about what I PAY. If the price fits with my needs and sense of fairness, I'm a happy boy.

Compareing this to all of your diffrent experiences I feel comfortable. Your thoughts?

I just put 4 new primacys on my 330 on July 23rd, and the dealer is willing to swap out the tires with the new 350.

What do you guys think about this; my o5' 330 has 7 spoke Lexus chrome wheels. I don't dislike the standard 350 wheels per se and I don't want to spend the $1,250 right now for the E-series sport wheels that are optional for the 2010 350. How would it look to put the 330 chrome wheels on the 350?

There is a "but" in this happy story. While I was collecting my ammunition, the dealer sold the one Black Sapphire they had in stock. However, they have two more in transit,(one all ready sold). It will be ten days, yeah right, before they arrive.

I'm not going to post any photos when I get the car because you already know what one looks like and the color is so deep that you would'nt be able to tell what it was. Especially at Internet quality.

Thank you, all of you for your help, especially you Steve W. The "Great Wiz"

Paul

[LEXIRX330]

Sounds like a good deal. You still have to get some pics up! Congrats.

[SW03ES]

Congrats! Yeah we still want pics!

I think you did very well. I don't worry about what they make either, at the end of the day they are a business and I am in commissioned sales too and everybody has to feed their families. As long as its a fair deal that works for me, I'm happy.

When people take that attitude that the dealer shouldn't make a dime, I don't think thats fair.

Thats great about the tires, they're the same size. Personally I really like the 2010' wheels, from the side they have a lot of dimension to them whereas the 330's wheels are flat. I'd want them re-mounted on the 2010's wheels.

[LEXIRX330]

I think you did very well. I don't worry about what they make either, at the end of the day they are a business and I am in commissioned sales too and everybody has to feed their families. As long as its a fair deal that works for me, I'm happy.

When people take that attitude that the dealer shouldn't make a dime, I don't think thats fair.

You know it is funny there are laws in some states and some companies are starting to implement even in states that don't have laws in place that insurance companies disclose the commission that is paid to the producer/agent/broaker. I just don't get it at all. If you walk in the door or call me and I save you $50.00/ a month why would you care if I make 10% or 17% commission. I would love to be able to show the idiot that has started this the overhead in the business.

I feel the same way about the car dealer. They should make money off of the deal. Who am I to say how much. Business is business if the deal works it works for both.

[pj8708]

I think you did very well. I don't worry about what they make either, at the end of the day they are a business and I am in commissioned sales too and everybody has to feed their families. As long as its a fair deal that works for me, I'm happy.

When people take that attitude that the dealer shouldn't make a dime, I don't think thats fair.

You know it is funny there are laws in some states and some companies are starting to implement even in states that don't have laws in place that insurance companies disclose the commission that is paid to the producer/agent/broaker. I just don't get it at all. If you walk in the door or call me and I save you $50.00/ a month why would you care if I make 10% or 17% commission. I would love to be able to show the idiot that has started this the overhead in the business.

I feel the same way about the car dealer. They should make money off of the deal. Who am I to say how much. Business is business if the deal works it works for both.

I have often thought that it would be a good learning experience for everyone to spend 30 days running their owning business using their own money as part of their education curriculum. Then people might have a perspective on things like inventory cost, labor cost, rent, utilities, advertising, etc. But most of all, the true cost of business, exceptional customer service. I am always willing to pay more for that one special thing and in particular, when it is delivered in the service bay with a wrench in hand. I am not saying that you should have to pay to get good serice, but exceptional anything comes with overhead attached, and I guess I am lookin for that dealer with that special touch of customer service.

I have never uploaded photos to this site and I don't see any place where it says "upload here". Can you give me a few pointers? Also, How do you activate the spell check feature when your typeing?

Thanks,

Paul

[SW03ES]

You know it is funny there are laws in some states and some companies are starting to implement even in states that don't have laws in place that insurance companies disclose the commission that is paid to the producer/agent/broaker. I just don't get it at all. If you walk in the door or call me and I save you $50.00/ a month why would you care if I make 10% or 17% commission. I would love to be able to show the idiot that has started this the overhead in the business.

In my business our commission is just out there on the HUD-1 at settlement so I'm used to that. One thing that has become an issue for mortgage people though, the new HUD laws require that a BROKER disclose their commission (the yield spread premium) in their good faith estimate and on the HUD. The issue is...since loan officers from direct lenders get paid internally and not at settlement, they don't have to disclose the same, so brokers are always at a disadvantage in the eyes of the consumer because they see that big YSP on there and see a GFE from Bank of America with no such thing and think the broker is ripping them off...when often the broker is SAVING them money.

I have often thought that it would be a good learning experience for everyone to spend 30 days running their owning business using their own money as part of their education curriculum. Then people might have a perspective on things like inventory cost' date=' labor cost, rent, utilities, advertising, etc[/quote']

I agree 100%!

For the pics, you'll see a button for file attachments right under the post entry field, upload each pic from there...

[pj8708]

You know it is funny there are laws in some states and some companies are starting to implement even in states that don't have laws in place that insurance companies disclose the commission that is paid to the producer/agent/broaker. I just don't get it at all. If you walk in the door or call me and I save you $50.00/ a month why would you care if I make 10% or 17% commission. I would love to be able to show the idiot that has started this the overhead in the business.

In my business our commission is just out there on the HUD-1 at settlement so I'm used to that. One thing that has become an issue for mortgage people though, the new HUD laws require that a BROKER disclose their commission (the yield spread premium) in their good faith estimate and on the HUD. The issue is...since loan officers from direct lenders get paid internally and not at settlement, they don't have to disclose the same, so brokers are always at a disadvantage in the eyes of the consumer because they see that big YSP on there and see a GFE from Bank of America with no such thing and think the broker is ripping them off...when often the broker is SAVING them money.

I have often thought that it would be a good learning experience for everyone to spend 30 days running their owning business using their own money as part of their education curriculum. Then people might have a perspective on things like inventory cost' date=' labor cost, rent, utilities, advertising, etc[/quote']

I agree 100%!

For the pics, you'll see a button for file attachments right under the post entry field, upload each pic from there...

I'm not sure where this is all coming from, and yes there are certainly situations where buyers are at the mercy of a monopolistic market. But on any given day, regardless of what someones profit is or how much commision the broker makes, if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Automobiles are probably one of the least monopolistic products out there when you consider how many brands there are with how may different models within those brands, sold by thousands of dealers around the world.

I give! I will post some pic's when the time comes. I'll have glossy 8x10's for sale in the lobby after the show.

Paul

p.s. How do you use the spell check feature?

[SW03ES]

p.s. How do you use the spell check feature?

I have no idea lol