2007 Ls460 Parking Brake Activates While In Gear.

[Cody]

See my post about my 2007 LS460 passenger seat phantom movement of last week.

Thursday, March 18, 2010, my wife and I were on Highway 111, and came to a stop at a light, "Hold" was activated.Traffic Light turned green, and I started to accelerate, but the car wouldn't move...rapidly checked to see if any RPM was showing...just barely...many cars behind us. I pushed accelerator harder, and car started moving, but under heavy strain. Then, the triangle yellow light comes on...a red light flashed in right lower corner of display..and center info center dislayed "Parking Brake On".(or some such). There was no emergency lane within which to stop, and I continued to next intersection and pulled onto side street. Brakes smoking, and filling car with smell. I moved the shifter in and out of park a few times, and the dash warning lights went out. Continued about 6 more miles to our home, with the acrid smell of burned brakes filling the car...and at home in the garage. I called the Dealer the next morning and both the service advisor and service manager were gone until Monday (March 29. 2010). I will call them then.

Please do not tell me,as one person kind of suggested, that these freak happenings did not happen "...because [he] never heard of this happening before. "

Cody Marine 0333

[Jeff in TX]

See my post about my 2007 LS460 passenger seat phantom movement of last week.

Thursday, March 18, 2010, my wife and I were on Highway 111, and came to a stop at a light, "Hold" was activated.Traffic Light turned green, and I started to accelerate, but the car wouldn't move...rapidly checked to see if any RPM was showing...just barely...many cars behind us. I pushed accelerator harder, and car started moving, but under heavy strain. Then, the triangle yellow light comes on...a red light flashed in right lower corner of display..and center info center dislayed "Parking Brake On".(or some such). There was no emergency lane within which to stop, and I continued to next intersection and pulled onto side street. Brakes smoking, and filling car with smell. I moved the shifter in and out of park a few times, and the dash warning lights went out. Continued about 6 more miles to our home, with the acrid smell of burned brakes filling the car...and at home in the garage. I called the Dealer the next morning and both the service advisor and service manager were gone until Monday (March 29. 2010). I will call them then.

Please do not tell me,as one person kind of suggested, that these freak happenings did not happen "...because [he] never heard of this happening before. "

Cody Marine 0333

Welcome to the "Burned Brake Club."

Maybe this will help you understand what happened.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls460-ls460l-and-ls600h/329427-hold-emergency-brake-ridiculous.html

[SW03ES]

I don't think this is so much a problem with the car...as it is the HOLD feature having a design quirk that causes a situation like that under a set of circumstances.

Personally? I wouldn't use the HOLD feature myself.

Please do not tell me,as one person kind of suggested, that these freak happenings did not happen "...because [he] never heard of this happening before. "

You're on a forum of volunteer owners. If you don't like the statements they may or may not make to you...I would suggest you just ignore them...if you want to continue to recieve the community's advice. Just a suggestion.

[Phil J.]

I do not know if this is your problem but I have found that if that car remains stopped by use of the hold feature for more than a certain amount of time that the parking brake kicks in as a safety feature.

It happened to me and I just pulled the little parking brake leaver and the parking brake goes off and you can drive. However you must put your foot on the brake to release the parking brake.

I agree with Steve and I seldom use the hold feature but I do use it and there are time when it come in handy.

Once you hit the open road you should turn off the hold button or that is what Lexus tell you.

I hope this helps you.

[Mr. Clean]

I have had this happen to me one time when the HOLD button was on. I was stopped at a traffic light that was a 4-way light. For some reason, the sequence skipped the light that I was waiting for and I had to wait for two full sequences (probably about 5 minutes total). When I got the green light, I tried to proceed, but the parking brake did not release. After trying putting the car in neutral and back into drive, the car still did not move. The cars behind me were honking their horns, but I could not move.

Finally, I turned the engine off, restarted the engine and everything was OK. Turning off the engine shuts off the HOLD feature.

As Phil J said, there must be something in the HOLD program that sets the parking brake after a certain amount of time. My dealer could not give me a definitive explanation on this.

I still use the HOLD feature, but my wife refuses to use it because of what happened.

[Jeff in TX]

Cody,

I am sincerely sorry that you have had the bad experience with your brakes. I hope by now you are able to put a little spin on that event – as I understand it, no one was injured and the damage to your car was only to the parking brakes – and you realize that your car is not haunted, except for maybe a seat ghost, and except for the expense of repairing the brakes everything is going to be okay.

You need to keep in mind that the “Hold” feature is inherently risky. An analogy might be a loaded revolver that is cocked and left in a public place. If you know about guns then you would understand that someone unknowledgeable about guns could find it and could easily kill or injure their self or someone else. I can think of lots of ways the “Hold” feature could be dangerous. For example, if it was in use and the driver stopped at a traffic signal and became unconscious then the car would be a booby trap for some good Samaritan – just the process of extracting the driver to provide aide could launch that rocket ship into responders or traffic. Another example might be a distracted driver getting out of the car while the “Hold” is engaged. Or maybe getting your wallet out while the “Hold” is engaged.

I don’t think that it is a “design quirk” – Steve, no disrespect here, just a different view – that your car is designed to default to the parking brake to mitigate the risks that are presented by use of the hold feature.

From what you have told us, it seems that your car defaulted to the parking brake and when that happens the following message is displayed in the information center part of you dash display:

THE PARKING BRAKE HAS BEEN AUTOMATICALLY LOCKED

TO MOVE THE VEHICLE, RELEASE THE PARKING BRAKE

The parking brake is controlled by a lever near the driver’s right knee. You press it in to set the parking brake and you lift it up to release the parking brake. The only way to release the parking brake, other than manually, is to lift on that lever. If you had released the parking brake with the lever then everything would have been fine.

I think the real problem for you and me and others is understanding what conditions automatically engage the parking brake.

As far as I can determine there are three conditions that will automatically engage the parking brake.

The first condition is opening the driver’s door while the “Hold” mode is engaged. If you do that it cancels the “Hold” mode and engages the parking brake. The only way the parking brake will be disengaged, even if the engine is turned off, is by operation of the brake lever.

Disconnecting the driver’s seat belt while the “Hold” mode is engaged will cause the same set of events as opening the driver’s door.

The third condition for automatic parking brake engagement is the “ dead man feature” which is caused by the “Hold” being engaged continuously for more than 3 minutes. That is probably what happened to you. What happens with this is a little different. Three minutes after the “Hold” engagement begins, it seems to be precisely timed, the parking brake is set and the attendant chime and message are displayed. In this case the “Hold” mode is not canceled and the hold engagement is not released. If you operate the parking brake lever in a manner to release the parking brake then the “Hold” mode remains on and engaged, the warning message goes away, the parking brake is released and the “Hold” operation continues for another three minutes, unless your release it by pressure to the accelerator, before the next dead man time out. So, if you have some reason to want to use the hold for a long time then just extend it each time it times out by operating the brake release.

It seems to be well thought out and very logical. What is lacking is an explanation. I don’t think you will get too much help from your dealer about how this works. I am sure that others have a better understanding about this than I do and I hope that they will share their wisdom with us.

Thank you for sharing your experience. You have probably helped others avoid what happened to you – it has been enlightening to me but I am not sure I will be able to think fast enough to keep from doing the same thing you did especially if I am stalled in traffic.

[Cody]

To:Jeff from Texas,

Thanks for your studied input. Now it makes sense, sort of, in that I had the "hold" feature activated for a few blocks on the highway. Your explanation coincides with the approximate amount of time I was on the road, from where I started. From now on, I will just use the "hold" feature 'as needed'. I apparently did not look to see if the 'Parking Brake" warning was displayed, but when you have a line of cars behind you,and the light turns green, I suppose that gets your attention more than checking the system 'notices'. At least now I have a handle on the situation.

Thanks again.

Cody Marine 0333

To: Mr. Clean and Phil J.

All these reactions described, are very helpful to all of us out there. Each helpful action you all have described, makes for a safer and less costly operation of the vehicles.

Thank You Very Much,

Cody Marine 0333

And to: Steve, Moderator

I take your suggestion wholeheartedly. I have the hide of a rhinousorous (sp)... and accept and respect everyone's suggestions, as I did three years ago with the instrument display and speedomoter on my 1993 LS400. One of the simplest, of many, suggestions worked like a charm.

However, the caveat should be that one should not dismiss, nor make, any default assumptions about aborting highly technical computer or mechanical driven systems, without a clear understanding of what 'gremlins' or unintended consequences may result, without complete underlying knowledge, irrespective of whether it is a 'one off' situation.

We all apreciate alternative experiences and solutions, to the end that one or more may just solve the problem, whether in the 'book' or not.

Respectfully,

Cody Marine 0333

Cody Marine 0333

[Cody]

To: Jeff from Texas,

Thank you for referring me to the "Thread" on 'Hold/Emergency Brake/Ridiculous" (http://www.clublexus...ridiculous.html).

Everyone reading this thread should go to that site to see many other same or similar experiences with the brake "Hold" function. And remember the suggestions for clearing the problem if it inadvertently occurs, before the horns of the cars behind start sounding as soon as the light turns green.(The definition of a 'split-second').

And, thanks for doing the research on other threads, though under a different definition, but containing the same problem.

While I was in the borderline retarded catagory when it came to this, my first experience with a "Hold" locking brake, now I know what to do. Apparently, when I kept rapidly shoving the shifter into P and back to D, it worked to release the parking brake. But, that was just blind luck. I see it is also a remedy suggested by others on your referred web site.

For those just browsing this thread, to whom the problem hasn't happened yet, you will have done them a great service, and saved them some embarrassment and brake wear.

Steve, Mr. Clean, and Steve should also take a look at the Thread site you recommended.

Thanks to all for the help.

Cody Marine 0333

[SW03ES]

I looked at the thread...

I never said what happened to you never happened...I said it was a design quirk of the system.

[gordonw]

If the Brake Hold is not releasing upon acceleration, there is a software update to prevent this condition. Have your dealership check to see if your car falls within the production range as some later 2007 models already have the update.

[needone]

If I recall correctly, my 2010 owners manual explains that if the "Hold" feature is engaged for more than 3 minutes, the parking brake is set in order to prevent overheating of the solenoid that applies the hold pressure to the brakes. By engaging the parking brake, they can release the solenoid and prevent burn out. Makes sense.