Do You Think Toyota/lexus Will Improve Quality In The Future?

[cduluk]

Do you think we will notice a difference in Toyota/Lexus quality in the next few years? Will quality increase? Or will it decrease?

Half of me is thinking logically... all of these recent problems with recalls and lawsuits must be killing Toyota and Lexus economically. All of the money they're wasting on these issues is money lost that they cannot use to build better quality cars in the future.

But then there's the other argument that Toyota and Lexus must "step it up" for future models to re-build customers' respect.

So what do you guys think will happen in the next couple of years? We've already been noticing a decrease in quality of Lexus' interior/exterior materials, so will all this crap going on with Toyota make it worse due to lack of funding? Or will Toyota and Lexus be able to "find the money" and make an effort to build better cars in the next couple of years?

Please share your thoughts! :)

[RX in NC]

Toyota is in full-scale crisis mode right now. Before they can focus attention on quality improvement for new products, they have to fix what they already have on the ground and in their showrooms. Sales have fallen off the table and current owners are watching their Toyota/Lexus vehicles depreciate like rocks falling down a chute. My point is simply that the company must spend 100% of its efforts right now on fixing the current problems before it can turn its attention to improving future products....

In the long run Toyota has no choice but to improve its quality if it is to remain a viable market leader, especially here in North America. Its reputation is in tatters, it is generally perceived as unwilling to comply with national safety regulations until forced to do so by the government, and its executives are now overwhelmingly viewed as untrustworthy liars. But one fact remains in its favor - Toyota has deep enough pockets to eventually right itself. It will take years and billions of dollars to do so, but it is financially capable of digging itself out of the maelstrom it has created. Given the financial state they're collectively in, GM, Chrysler, and probably even Ford could not have survived the magnitude of this debacle....

But during Toyota's inevitably long upcoming probation period as they try to prove themselves again to the car-buying public, Honda, Hyundai, Subaru, and even Kia get an unprecedented free pass to shine like never before. It will be interesting to see how these various manufacturers take advantage of their windfall to cut into Toyota's previous market share....

[Lexusfreak]

As mentioned there is no question Toyota has to step up it's game and get back to basics of which their reputation was built on over the last 5+ decades in North America...high quality & reliable vehicles ("It's the product stupid" to coin an old phrase...and how true that is!).

I see that happening sooner rather than later (not as long as a couple of years). It's a shame that they lost their way, in the way they did they have to pay the piper for their mistakes (and taking it on the chin bigtime!) of which they have admitted they were growing too fast. Time is going to tell how much they have learned from their mistakes...and the world is paying close attention & will for quite some time. This was one hell of a rude wake up call on many levels...all the way to the top brass back in Japan.

It might be wise for Toyota to offer a longer factory warranty similar to that of Hyundai as a good start too...I feel that would go a long way to say to the general public "we've got our house in order" in the long term B)

Having said that & in all honesty I have lost a fair bit of respect for them, but I will still give Lexus / Toyota a serious look when the time comes to replace my ES 330...because both my ES's have served me well over the years.

[tim john]

They need to get out of racing, NASCAR, F1 etc. work on getting their cars fixed. They spend tons of money on racing, I don't think it paid off. I think downsizing, less models, maybe combine Lexus and Toyota, treat Toyota customers the same as Lexus, better service, free loaners etc. I think their done for in the U.S.

Tim

[The G Man]

As I have stated in another post, Toyota CEO is good at apologizing for poor quality and recalls but not as good at actually doing something about it. They have being apologizing for poor quality for quite a few years, now but the quality has not improve, but it did level off in recent years and maybe it would have improve in the future if all these recalls haven’t happen.

These recalls cost Toyota millions of dollar, by the time we add up advertisements, cash to dealers to deal with this mess, the actual cost of the recalls and the lost of sales, it will easily add up a over a billion dollars.

This is definitely bad timing for Toyota, they are coming off the worst year Toyota have ever had financially. Their spending is out of control, they have money tie up in NASCAR and millions invested in the LFA which is predict to be a project that is designed to lose money. Their labor cost is out of control as well, all signs point to GM of the past.

Toyota will be competing with the like of Hyundai in the future, the Koreans can built cars for much less than what the Japanese can build it for. Other Japanese car companies like Honda and Mazda already knows this and they are cutting back. Toyota is the last Japanese car company that is spending money like Obama 

I think the future quality of Toyota and Lexus will be about the same as well, but the price of their cars will up and Toyota and Lexus will cut back on thing like customer service and warranty work, if they haven’t done so already. I think they will also operate on a smaller profit margin as well.

[SW03ES]

They need to get out of racing, NASCAR, F1 etc. work on getting their cars fixed. They spend tons of money on racing, I don't think it paid off. I think downsizing, less models, maybe combine Lexus and Toyota, treat Toyota customers the same as Lexus, better service, free loaners etc. I think their done for in the U.S.

I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. This isn't as huge a blow to Toyota financially as you seem to think. The division that does the racing is a totally seperate division than what deals with product quality or general business operations, and the dealers are all independent so issues of dealer service and loaners etc are largely out of Toyota's control. You suggest less models when the Toyota line doesn't have a problem with cross modeling like say GM did. If they were to do away with models they would have big gaping holes in their product line and leave entire segments unserved. Combining Lexus and Toyota? That would destroy Lexus. Never going to happen.

I personally think you are all over-estimating the attention span of the 21st century consumer. 6 months from now this will all be forgotten, the relentless 24 hour news cycle will have moved on. I, personally don't think this is going to be such a huge blow to Toyota's sales performance in the US.

What I do HOPE it will do is inject some spunk into them to do something about the steadily diminishing quality we've seen over the last 5 years or so, and force them to be a little more aggressive in their product development. Time will tell, but I think it will have to. Like I've said before...Hyundai makes a great car.

I'd go buy a new Lexus right now though. I've put getting close to half a million miles on these cars and they are great cars.

[The G Man]

I agree, the ES is a great car, its built on a Camry platform and we all know it has proven relaibility. In fact, I would say most Toyota and Lexus are still pretty realible cars. What concerns me is the recent quality and the pricing, what ever happen to the Lexus I use to know 10 years ago, Lexus use to built a very high quality car at a very good price when compare to the Germans. Now a days, their quality is not what it use to be and the pricing is getting closer and closer to the German counterparts. I just dont know how the Japanese can compete with the Koreans in the future. The Koreans are where the Japanese was 10 years ago, cheap labor , low spending and cheap R&D and production cost. Toyota and Lexus are actually where the American car companies were 10 years ago, tons of cash reserve, out of control spending, high labor cost, high production cost and decreasing profits.

[nc211]

I don't know if it's so much Toyota coming down the ladder, as much as the others coming up the ladder to catch Toyota?

At the end of the day though, for me at least, there is only one car company that I can think of that makes a car that is extremely quiet, smooth, and reliable all at the same time. Looks are just that, looks. I have yet to ride in, or drive, any car that matches Toyota's ability to insulate the cabin from the engine noise, road noise, and mechanical noises of a car. Especially one that stays that way beyond 40k miles (nissan, i'm talking to you). 8 years later and $300 for a couple of new mounts, the car is just as quiet and smooth as it was on day one. To me, that's the #1 attraction I have with Toyota cars.

[RX in NC]

There's no question that Toyota/Lexus overall quality has slipped noticeably over the last few years. Buick and Jaguar tied for the 2009 Powers top-quality rating survey. Who would have believed that was even possible just three or four years ago? Yes, other manufacturers have made great strides in improving their own products (especially Hyundai), but without Toyota's clear drop in quality, they wouldn't have been able to catch and surpass Toyota so quickly....

This stuff is not media-created, folks. Toyota has no one to blame but themselves....

[SW03ES]

I don't know if it's so much Toyota coming down the ladder, as much as the others coming up the ladder to catch Toyota?

I think its a combination of the two. Yes other manufacturers have REALLY been working hard to improve quality and have made great strides. But, all you have to do is sit in a 2010 Lexus and a 2005 Lexus and you can see and feel the difference in the weight and heft of the leather, the thickness of the carpeting, the thickness of the headliners, the feel of plastic in "no touch" spots like the steering column and around the gauges, undersides of the dash...there have definately been reductions in product quality.

This stuff is not media-created, folks. Toyota has no one to blame but themselves....

Its not media created, but it is media escalated. A lot of the irrational fear is created by the media, they have blown what really is an issue with a small percentage of cars and made people afraid to drive their Toyotas. Toyota is to blame for not getting out ahead of the issue, but I still firmly believe this is an issue that could have happened to any automaker...

[RX in NC]

It absolutely could happen to any automaker. But what the automaker CANNOT do when it happens is to deny it, attempt to hide it or divert attention elsewhere, and eventually lie about it. Consumers will accept and forgive glitches and even serious flaws if they are readily owned up to. But consumers get furious and are much less forgiving when the corporate execs choose to hide the details and then lie about them. And that is the reality that faces Toyota today....

[SW03ES]

That I definately agree with...

A lot of people have been asking why the public and the media have been so hard on Toyota when other carmakers, namely domestic carmakers have had so many even more deadly design issues they have covered up for years. Thats whats spawned these conspiracy theories etc. My feeling is though its the many years of Toyota touting and marketing themselves to be so committed to quality and reliability, this is such a violation of that image and the trust that consumers have put in the brand it really feels like a betrayal. People sort of expect that from Ford and GM of old...but not Toyota. So in that sense I could see how you could say Toyota brought this sh!tstorm on themselves too...

[tim john]

maybe the Nummi Plant in Calif. did more harm then good.

[SW03ES]

Doesn't have anything to do with it really...

[The G Man]

At the end of the day though, for me at least, there is only one car company that I can think of that makes a car that is extremely quiet, smooth, and reliable all at the same time. Looks are just that, looks. I have yet to ride in, or drive, any car that matches Toyota's ability to insulate the cabin from the engine noise, road noise, and mechanical noises of a car.

Quietness, smoothness, and reliable are qualites most owners look for when buying a new car, but they are not the only quality that people look for. Some drivers consider handling, accelaration and deisgn top priorities as well. Lexus use to be the quietest car around, but there are a few brands out there now that is just as quiet as Lexus. Personally, I think too much isolation is not always a good thing.

[nc211]

At the end of the day though, for me at least, there is only one car company that I can think of that makes a car that is extremely quiet, smooth, and reliable all at the same time. Looks are just that, looks. I have yet to ride in, or drive, any car that matches Toyota's ability to insulate the cabin from the engine noise, road noise, and mechanical noises of a car.

Quietness, smoothness, and reliable are qualites most owners look for when buying a new car, but they are not the only quality that people look for. Some drivers consider handling, accelaration and deisgn top priorities as well. Lexus use to be the quietest car around, but there are a few brands out there now that is just as quiet as Lexus. Personally, I think too much isolation is not always a good thing.

Really? I had no idea.

[SW03ES]

Lexus use to be the quietest car around, but there are a few brands out there now that is just as quiet as Lexus. Personally, I think too much isolation is not always a good thing.

Really though, I haven't driven anything that is as quiet and refined as a Lexus. Even when I drove the Genesis and the Lincoln MKS, as soon as I got into the ES350, and even back into my old ES I was struck by how much quieter, smoother, and more isolated the Lexus is. Compared to an LS? Nothing rides like an LS...

Not for everybody...but obviously for a lot of people...

[The G Man]

Really though, I haven't driven anything that is as quiet and refined as a Lexus. Even when I drove the Genesis and the Lincoln MKS, as soon as I got into the ES350, and even back into my old ES I was struck by how much quieter, smoother, and more isolated the Lexus is. Compared to an LS? Nothing rides like an LS...

Not for everybody...but obviously for a lot of people...

The ES is tough to beat as far as quietness and smoothness in its price range, but new Buick LaCross is pretty close. As far as the LS is concerned, it is still the quietest, but the MB S-class and the Audi A8 is also pretty close, close enough as most will say.

Here is a chart of a recent quietness and smoothness comparison of the top mid size sport luxury sedans by road and track, as you can see, Lexus is not always the best:

[tim john]

I think the 02 to 06 ES is a great car. I'm was thinking about a older GS in the future, but there is a lot of nice low mileage ES's for sale, I would just have to drive some distance to get the right car. I get about mad this recall mess. Just sit back and wait. I just hate the media beating up Toyota too much. My ES is the best car I ever had.

Tim

[The G Man]

I think the 02 to 06 ES is a great car. I'm was thinking about a older GS in the future, but there is a lot of nice low mileage ES's for sale, I would just have to drive some distance to get the right car. I get about mad this recall mess. Just sit back and wait. I just hate the media beating up Toyota too much. My ES is the best car I ever had.

Tim

The ES have always been a proven product for Lexus, its a high volume car, so Lexus make sure it is relaible.

I disagree about the media beating up on Toyota though, the media was just as bad on the Ford Explorer, Ford Pinto and Audi 500 when they had their problems.

[SW03ES]

I remember the Ford Explorer fiasco because I had an Explorer...it wasn't this bad.

I too saw that chart, the "numbers" don't show you the actual situation though...plus that was with the GS which I have never thought was nearly as nice as the ES or LS. I've just simply never driven another car that I wasn't surprised by how nice my old ES was when I got back into it, and I've driven many of the luxury vehicles out there today. Its not that they are even going for the same thing, just for me the ES & LS are about the perfect car.

The Buick Lacrosse is pretty close, they bought 100 ES350s and reverse engineered them to build the LaCrosse but its not quite the same, and the interior is a sea of weird shapes and fake wood...the ES is much nicer IMHO.

[The G Man]

I remember the Ford Explorer fiasco because I had an Explorer...it wasn't this bad.

I too saw that chart, the "numbers" don't show you the actual situation though...plus that was with the GS which I have never thought was nearly as nice as the ES or LS. I've just simply never driven another car that I wasn't surprised by how nice my old ES was when I got back into it, and I've driven many of the luxury vehicles out there today. Its not that they are even going for the same thing, just for me the ES & LS are about the perfect car.

The Buick Lacrosse is pretty close, they bought 100 ES350s and reverse engineered them to build the LaCrosse but its not quite the same, and the interior is a sea of weird shapes and fake wood...the ES is much nicer IMHO.

I could never under the fake wood trims in any car, why not just go with plastic or aluminium, fake wood is as chessy as it gets.

To me the LS and the ES are nice cars, but they are boring to drive. There are cars out there that has a much better balnace between luxury and performance. Lexus is starting to realize this as well. That is why they invested all that money into NASCAR, the LFA and the F program. Have you notice the new Lexus's suspension are stiffer and they handle better, yes even the 2010 ES350 handles better than before.

The Ford Explorer was one model, Lexus is recalling more than a half dozen models. I guess if you take that into consideration, Toyota has it easy.

[SW03ES]

I could never under the fake wood trims in any car, why not just go with plastic or aluminium, fake wood is as chessy as it gets.

I agree 100%...

To me the LS and the ES are nice cars, but they are boring to drive. There are cars out there that has a much better balnace between luxury and performance.

Depends on the person, for me the balance is just right. Right for a lot of other people too seeing that the ES and LS are top sellers in their classes. When I drive something like a Cadillac CTS or an Acura TL...or a BMW 3 series, or an Infiniti G, those cars just really don't appeal to me at all.

Have you notice the new Lexus's suspension are stiffer and they handle better, yes even the 2010 ES350 handles better than before.

Yes, I actually think its kind of a shame...

The Ford Explorer was one model, Lexus is recalling more than a half dozen models. I guess if you take that into consideration, Toyota has it easy.

But it was a LOT of Explorers, and the Explorer was the main profit center for Ford at the time as well as being the best selling SUV and the benchmark for the class. They sold 400,000 Explorers a year for like 18 years...thats a lot of Explorers.

It was easier on Ford though because a lot of the blame was put on Firestone. Toyota tried to do that with CTS, but nobody knows what CTS is like they knew what Firestone was. I think the Explorer debacle was worse for Firestone than it was for Ford.

[The G Man]

Depends on the person, for me the balance is just right. Right for a lot of other people too seeing that the ES and LS are top sellers in their classes. When I drive something like a Cadillac CTS or an Acura TL...or a BMW 3 series, or an Infiniti G, those cars just really don't appeal to me at all.

But it was a LOT of Explorers, and the Explorer was the main profit center for Ford at the time as well as being the best selling SUV and the benchmark for the class. They sold 400,000 Explorers a year for like 18 years...thats a lot of Explorers.

It was easier on Ford though because a lot of the blame was put on Firestone. Toyota tried to do that with CTS, but nobody knows what CTS is like they knew what Firestone was. I think the Explorer debacle was worse for Firestone than it was for Ford.

The ES and the LS is top sellers in the US, but world wide, they are behind the likes of the BMW, MB and Audi.

You must admit, Firestone should have been more to blame, but at the end Ford got the bulk of the blame.

[SW03ES]

I have no interest in sales worldwide. I live in the United States. Likes & dislikes in the US are very different than in Europe.