Brake Question

[tgcLS430]

Just replaced the brake pads at all four corners on my 2004 LS430 with 58k miles. The rotors showed no perceptable wear and do not show any signs of warping, so I did not replace them. The pad replacement was very easy, due in large part to the non-floating caliper design Lexus uses. One thing I noticed with the OEM replacement pads is they are tapered, such that the pad material area that contacts the rotor is less when they are new and increases over time as the pads wear. That is odd, as it seems like braking performance would be less when the pads are new due to decreased pad contact area with the rotor as compared with later in pad life when the pads are worn down and more pad area is exposed to the rotor. I did not notice any reduced braking effectiveness after installing the new pads compared with the old pads which were worn about 80%. Just seemed strange - anybody know why the OEM pads are tapered? I've replaced brakes on many of my vehicles in the past and never noticed the pads being tapered.

[SRK]

It's commonly done to reduce the chances of brake squeal, and it speeds the break-in process. As you mention the area is less, but the pressure from the caliper is exerted over that smaller area producing a higher unit pressure, so all remains the same.

[CELICA XX]

I just replaced the pads on my 1993 LS with Wagner ThermoQuiet Ceramics and they were tapered on the edges.

[killerFatty]

My EBC redstuff brake pads for my 93 are tapered too.

[WHLS430]

Just replaced the brake pads at all four corners on my 2004 LS430 with 58k miles. The rotors showed no perceptable wear and do not show any signs of warping, so I did not replace them. The pad replacement was very easy, due in large part to the non-floating caliper design Lexus uses. One thing I noticed with the OEM replacement pads is they are tapered, such that the pad material area that contacts the rotor is less when they are new and increases over time as the pads wear. That is odd, as it seems like braking performance would be less when the pads are new due to decreased pad contact area with the rotor as compared with later in pad life when the pads are worn down and more pad area is exposed to the rotor. I did not notice any reduced braking effectiveness after installing the new pads compared with the old pads which were worn about 80%. Just seemed strange - anybody know why the OEM pads are tapered? I've replaced brakes on many of my vehicles in the past and never noticed the pads being tapered.

Hey were there any special tools that you needed? I'm about to change pads on my 01 430

[curiousB]

Very simple just a few wrenches. Nice brakes to work on. I like to use a dab of high temp grease on the sheet metal shims between the caliper piston and pads. After cleaning them I just put a very thin film of coating on them as rubbed in by my fingers. I also use loctite for the caliper bolts but that is only if your are changing/removing the rotors.

Check the rubber boot around the pistons to make sure its in tact as well.

[CELICA XX]

Very simple just a few wrenches. Nice brakes to work on. I like to use a dab of high temp grease on the sheet metal shims between the caliper piston and pads. After cleaning them I just put a very thin film of coating on them as rubbed in by my fingers.

I have seen this advice all over the Internet.

Make sure you read the instruction that come with your pads. The Wagner ThermoQuiet's specifically say do NOT use any type of grease. It is already manufactured with a "quiet backing" on the pads.

[pmead]

Sounds like my '04 LS. 59k and all pads are close to needing replacement. Did you pull the calipers, and how did you push the piston back in?

[curiousB]

Sounds like my '04 LS. 59k and all pads are close to needing replacement. Did you pull the calipers, and how did you push the piston back in?

No need to pull caliper if its just pads. If you aren't getting a shimmy at slower speeds as you brake and the rotors have no obvious gouges I'd just replace pads. Some people feel resurfacing the rotors is a good idea. I don't, but to each his own. I’d only resurface if there are symptoms telling you to do so (warped or gouged). A large C clamp is all you need to compress piston. Just be sure rubber boot is in tact and not ripped and it folds up nicely as you compress. I have heard some say to open bleeder valve at the caliper so the fluid you compress comes out at the caliper instead of pushing potentially dirty fluid back up the system. I've never tried this but it sounds like not a bad idea. If you just compress then be sure reservoir doesn't overflow, maybe get the turkey baster out first and take out some fluid before pushing pistons back.

[05silverls430]

I'm seriously considering replacing my own brakes instead of paying $800+ for the dealer to do it. They have an annoying loud squeaking noise when braking at very low speeds, especially when cold. My dealer told me that the "rotors are glazed". So maybe I need to replace the rotors too. I'm sure it would be SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper if I did it myself, however I get nervous about these things. My mechanical experience is limited to changing the oil on an Isuzu pick-up that I owned years ago, and doing a diesel purge on my 84 Mercedes.

I haven't spent any time looking (yet), but if anyone has a link for some good instructions, including photos, I would greatly appreciate it...

[pmead]

Yes, I agree, i rarely pull the disc. and turn. I have changed a lot of pads, and i use the C clamp because the caliper "floats" or moves; however, on the LS looks like there are four pistons with a fixed caliper. Seems to me that you will have to wedge some thing between the rotor and pads on one side and push the two pistons in, put the pads in and then do the other side of the rotor.

[1990LS400]

I'm seriously considering replacing my own brakes instead of paying $800+ for the dealer to do it.

$800 seems awfully high for a brake job. I paid $230 to have the rear brake pads on my 2000 LS400 changed for the very first time and the rotors resurfaced two days ago (02/04/2010) at 120,064 miles during the 120K mile service. The rear brake pad wear sensor was just about to be triggered but didn't have to be replaced.

I had the front brake pads changed for the very first time and the rotors resurfaced at 71,293 miles in 2006 for right at $215 not including a front pad wear sensor which had been triggered and could not be reused. Only OEM parts were used both times and the work was performed by a former Lexus dealer mechanic at an independent repair shop that specializes in Lexus vehicles. I just checked and see that the retail prices of brake pads for my 2000 LS400 and your 2005 LS430 are exactly the same price.

The front and rear brake pads wear at very different rates. The OP had all his brake pads replaced at 58K miles. Even if the front pads were worn out, it is doubtful that the rear pads were at all close to needing replacement. Note that I am speaking about only the LS400 and LS430 -- the brake pads on some other Lexus models wear out much sooner or last far longer.

After doing brake jobs with and without having the rotors resurfaced, I'm a strong believer in having the rotors resurfaced when replacing brake pads. Of course my wife tells me that I seem to feel every vibration and every irregularity that exists while driving. I like perfection.

[curiousB]

A brake job on a Lexus is pretty straight forward. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone but if you can be safe about jacking up front end and securing car then you're probably ok to proceed.

The benefit is once you do it you'll see how simple it is and you'll save some cash and feel good about your newly gained knowledge.

I am not too worried about the squealing noise issue. That could be the old pads. If your brakes don't shimmy as you apply them and slow down then rotors probably aren't warped. If they're warped you'll feel the shimmy, it doesn't take much warpage to feel it.

The shiny glazed rotors might be an issue but if they aren't warped or scored with gouges then you can try some emery cloth the just dull down the surface.

On a 1-10 scale 1 being an oil change, and 10 being an engine replacement I'd put a brake pad replacement at a 2 but if you have to remove rotors bump it up to a 3.

[05silverls430]

Thanks for the tips! What I really need to do is find a good independent Lexus mechanic in my area, like you 1990LS. My searches thus far have turned up nothing...

[Jazoo]

Just replaced the brake pads at all four corners on my 2004 LS430 with 58k miles. The rotors showed no perceptable wear and do not show any signs of warping, so I did not replace them. The pad replacement was very easy, due in large part to the non-floating caliper design Lexus uses. One thing I noticed with the OEM replacement pads is they are tapered, such that the pad material area that contacts the rotor is less when they are new and increases over time as the pads wear. That is odd, as it seems like braking performance would be less when the pads are new due to decreased pad contact area with the rotor as compared with later in pad life when the pads are worn down and more pad area is exposed to the rotor. I did not notice any reduced braking effectiveness after installing the new pads compared with the old pads which were worn about 80%. Just seemed strange - anybody know why the OEM pads are tapered? I've replaced brakes on many of my vehicles in the past and never noticed the pads being tapered.

I have 06 LS430 with approx. 42K miles and have the following questions:

1. What were the pad thicknesses when you decided to replace the pads (1mm, 2mm or more)?

2.Where did you purchase the OEM pads & for how much?

3. Did you remove the hair pin/clip first and then slided out the rod before removing the brake pads?

4. Did you apply an anti-squeeling grease on each shim?

Thanks

[drock02]

Just replaced the brake pads at all four corners on my 2004 LS430 with 58k miles. The rotors showed no perceptable wear and do not show any signs of warping, so I did not replace them. The pad replacement was very easy, due in large part to the non-floating caliper design Lexus uses. One thing I noticed with the OEM replacement pads is they are tapered, such that the pad material area that contacts the rotor is less when they are new and increases over time as the pads wear. That is odd, as it seems like braking performance would be less when the pads are new due to decreased pad contact area with the rotor as compared with later in pad life when the pads are worn down and more pad area is exposed to the rotor. I did not notice any reduced braking effectiveness after installing the new pads compared with the old pads which were worn about 80%. Just seemed strange - anybody know why the OEM pads are tapered? I've replaced brakes on many of my vehicles in the past and never noticed the pads being tapered.

I just noticed the same thing with new pads I just bought. Were your pads only tapered on one side of the pad? Did you point the tapered side to the rear or front of the car?